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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:19 am
by Mr. Flay
kops wrote:I am vanilla. I'm really not sure how Flay know's my color, but I'm guessing that he has an additional scum ability to find out people's colors/role names at night.
And what possible game advantage would that have for scum in a game where scum roles appear to be randomized through the color names? It's not all females; all men; all dark colors; it seems to be totally random, so as we've said MANY times in this game, what advantage would there be to lying about your color? Conversely, why would this be a scum ability? It just doesn't make sense, but that's because you're grasping at straws.
kops wrote:I don't know exactly how lassies work, never having been one, but wouldn't they spot a scum going out to talk to his partners at night? I can't see how someone who can apparently see people's roles would miss this happening. Clearly if he were really telling the truth, he would have seen me then, instead of claiming to have seen nothing.
Incorrect. I see "what happens in a room", not people's roles
per se
. I have reason to believe that non-physical actions don't get reported to me; I didn't see anything from Bamboomancer last night either, as his role seemed to be entirely passive (the "shame" of killing someone in front of the socialite). I asked the mod about this and she wouldn't give me any more than that.
bigAl wrote:While it is possible for Mr. Flay to have guessed correctly (if he was scum, he would only have two or three choices to choose from, and fairly easy to realise that kops was fishing for the Reverend part of the name), I doubt he is making up his ability to see people's colour.
Except that I said he was Green
before
kops started asking about the Rev./Mr. part (which was a mistake on my part, should have read my PM again during that superlong post). As far as I can tell, before I named myself and kops, elvis_knits was the only one currently alive to claim a color. Therefore to be making it up I'd have had to discern correctly which of {{EmpTyger, bigAl, kops}} was Green. Only 33% odds at best, and a big risk if wrong.
bigAl wrote:I think that trackers often only see night
actions
, so if you weren't the one to send in the kill, you might not show up.
I'm pretty sure this is why I didn't see anything before EmpTyger's plan of last night. With elvis and kops the only two outside of the room with the claimed Doctor according to the plan, and assuming scum believed me when I described my ability (which I did WAY too early in this game, *sigh*), their only option was to kill someone in the same room as me. They'd avoided doing this so far, which is why I never saw anything; this also lends credence to the elvis_knits-kops-Tamuz scum group, although they (kops-Empmay have been desperate enough to kill Bamboomancer to trade him 1-for-1.
But I'd like to hear from elvis before preceeding much more.
QFT. I also want to hear from EmpTyger about his vigilante role, still.
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:20 am
by Mr. Flay
I wrote:although they (kops-Empmay have been desperate enough to kill Bamboomancer to trade him 1-for-1.
Sorry, that should read:
although they (kops-EmpTyger, assuming the other possibility) may have been desperate enough to kill Bamboomancer to trade him 1-for-1. That requiers EmpTyger to have set up a room assignment that would lead to sacrificing his partner today though...
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:10 am
by kops
Mr. Flay wrote:And what possible game advantage would that have for scum in a game where scum roles appear to be randomized through the color names? It's not all females; all men; all dark colors; it seems to be totally random, so as we've said MANY times in this game, what advantage would there be to lying about your color? Conversely, why would this be a scum ability? It just doesn't make sense, but that's because you're grasping at straws.
Look, I don't know if that's
really
the case, but I honestly can't see any other way for you to possibly know my role name, unless maybe you (or one of your scumbuddies) were given it at the start of the game for some reason, which I realize also doesn't make much sense.
As for how an ability to discern people's colors makes sense on a scum, well look.. we're in lylo and you're about to lynch a townie just because you know his role name... are you telling me this ability (if you have it) wasn't useful???
The cop claim is also extremely convenient with that kind of ability which is another reason that makes me think you have it.
Again, this is just speculation, but I really don't see any other possibilities.
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:48 pm
by bigAl
Mr. Flay wrote:bigAl wrote:While it is possible for Mr. Flay to have guessed correctly (if he was scum, he would only have two or three choices to choose from, and fairly easy to realise that kops was fishing for the Reverend part of the name), I doubt he is making up his ability to see people's colour.
Except that I said he was Green
before
kops started asking about the Rev./Mr. part (which was a mistake on my part, should have read my PM again during that superlong post). As far as I can tell, before I named myself and kops, elvis_knits was the only one currently alive to claim a color. Therefore to be making it up I'd have had to discern correctly which of {{EmpTyger, bigAl, kops}} was Green. Only 33% odds at best, and a big risk if wrong.
But if you're scum, you'd also know the colour of you're partner, which could bring it down to 50%. And if you guessed wrong and kops called you on it, you could just say kops was saying that to make you look guilty. I'm just point this out, NOT saying that I believe it.
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:27 pm
by Orbiting
We interrupt this thread to announce that elvis_knits has been prodded to post, and stands to be replaced if she doesn't pop in soonly.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled murder and mayhem.
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:42 am
by Mr. Flay
Bloody hell. If we have to replace elvis *now*....
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:21 am
by Orbiting
EK having not been seen on the site since 5/22, I am looking for a replacement. The game should be able to continue v. soon.
Thanks for your patience.
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:56 pm
by EmpTyger
bigAl:
Please let me know how you’re coming along. Just something general like “nearing a decision” or “flipping a coin” or something- I don’t want to rush you.
Flay:
If you’re telling the truth about your ability (heck, even if you’re lying about your ability) you should understand why I don’t want to explain my nightability in detail. Right now the mafia are forced to guess their proper play tonight. When I know an innocent wants an explanation, I’ll give one, but I’m not going to before then.
A couple corrections:
Mr. Flay [543] wrote:I've got to think about this a bit more; with a Vigilante, No Lynch may become viable here, if you're 100% certain somehow about elvis. It essentially pushes the lynch into the night phase. On the other hand, if we lynch kops, you can either vig me (if he's town, improbably), or elvis, right?<snip>
Does not help. Lynching kops and vigging Flay if he’s innocent (or vice versa) wouldn’t work, because then I get nightkilled and the 1-1 endgame loses. The town has to plan on lynching correctly. No-lynch just pushes the lynch to night and gives me control, which doesn’t give any advantage to the town; if you wanted to do that, you could just as easily lynch who I tell you to. (And if it is a matter of testing my ability, the town has already lost at that point if I am mafia.) Furthermore, it would introduce an extra variable into room determinations, which at the very least doesn’t help.
Mr. Flay [550] wrote:<snip>With elvis and kops the only two outside of the room with the claimed Doctor according to the plan, and assuming scum believed me when I described my ability (which I did WAY too early in this game, *sigh*), their only option was to kill someone in the same room as me.<snip>
The plan had elvis and *bigAl* outside the room.
bigAl [553] wrote:But if you're scum, you'd also know the colour of you're partner, which could bring it down to 50%. And if you guessed wrong and kops called you on it, you could just say kops was saying that to make you look guilty. I'm just point this out, NOT saying that I believe it.
Actually, it’s a lot lower than that, because he also was correct about Scarlet. Basically, he would have had to guess that neither of us were Scarlet *and* neither of us were Green; which, besides being unlikely, would be a bad play for mafia in that position.
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:51 am
by Mr. Flay
I still think the color thing is a red herring, because there's no reason for me to lie about my own color (Scarlet). All I'd have had to do was figure out what kops was, but it's still a stupid risk for small benefit if I'm wrong.
The plan had elvis and *bigAl* outside the room.
Erk. Right; lemme think about that for a bit.
The only reason I'm asking about your ability, EmpTyger, is that I think the play for the night is to put all of us in the same room, and you don't use your kill. If I survive, I should be able to see who the remaining scum is when they kill. If you survive, then you still have your vigging ability and can secure a draw by crosskilling the final night even if the D5 lynch is wrong. Unless you're scum... I suppose if you're scum AND you hold off on your kill to avoid me seeing you, then we're back at the same position tomorrow except we'll know my alignment via kops' death.
Am I missing anything? Probably, it's still early in the morning here...
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:54 am
by Orbiting
The remaining party guests sit back, trying to kill a little time, if you'll pardon the expression. elvis_knits, one of the few survivors had nipped up the to powder room some time ago, and never returned. Some half-hearted attempts at arguments were made, hoping that she would return soon, but the overall mood of the party could best be described as nervous. Finally, Mr. Flay suggests that someone go and have a look, see if she's okay, that sort of thing. You look at each other, trying to sort out who's most trustworthy to handle this mission, and above all, who's the right gender to be in the washroom with elvis_knits.
Just as a decision seemed about to occur, the door upstairs opens, and out walks Masterchief, in the same color robe elvis_knits had been wearing. You blink a bit, but then decide it's probably more polite to go on as if nothing had happened. And really, if you haven't got civility, what have you got?
Masterchief replaces elvis_knits. I am sending him a role PM right this second. Please give him some time to read the thread before you crash down upon him like a wave of ...er... lynch-happy scummers. Thanks!
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:12 am
by Masterchief
Whoh... I've been skimming the posts and it looks like this is a pretty intense game. Can someone tell me the vote count so far?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:13 am
by Masterchief
Sorry. In my stupidity, I forgot to ask which room I'm in.
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:13 am
by kops
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:15 am
by Masterchief
Oh. Thanks. So, has anybody made any
FoS
's yet.
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:46 am
by Mr. Flay
The last couple pages are most crucial; you can back up and read older suspicions at your leisure, but right now you seem to be directly accused by EmpTyger of being scum, and you're high on my list. I've said that I saw kops kill last night, and kops has claimed townie. bigAl.... well, I'll let him explain himself soon, since it's sort of complex and I don't want to put words in his mouth.
No one has voted yet, but partly that was because we were waiting on elvis. Pay special attention to what roles do, as they're non-standard in this game.
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:59 am
by Masterchief
Can you explain to me why I'm high on your suspicions list, especially since I'm a new person and so far haven't really done anything to prove whether I'm scum or townie?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:04 am
by Orbiting
At the moment, you are all in the Library. At nightfall, all living players will choose a new room to move to for the night phase. If there are any nightkills, the remaining players will convene in the room where the last nightkill took place to do the day phase. If there are no nightkills, I will randomly assign you a room to sit in during the day.
However, if town does not lynch wisely, the whole moving at night thing may be moot.
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:08 am
by Masterchief
Oh. Thanks. I didn't(although I should have!) Read the rules very well. I am going to make sure I read them more carefully this time.
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:16 am
by Masterchief
Sorry, just one more question.(this is the first time I've been in a clue game)What are the significance of rooms?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:27 am
by bigAl
We are not entirely sure. It's the first time all of us have been in a Clue game
. Some roles are affected by room choices. For example, it appears that docs have to be in the same room as someone they want to protect. Or, (so Mr. Flay claims) he can see night actions done in the same room as him. It's unclear whether scum have to be in the same room as their target, but probably doubtful.
I'll not vote at the moment to let mc catch up.
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:33 am
by bigAl
Masterchief wrote:Can you explain to me why I'm high on your suspicions list, especially since I'm a new person and so far haven't really done anything to prove whether I'm scum or townie?
You may be a new person, however you still have the same alignment as elvis. So (unfortunately) we can't ignore what your role has said in the past.
More specifically, EmpTyger has reason to believe (from his role) that you/elvis is scum. See his explanation in post 537 for details.
Anyway, thanks for replacing!
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:59 pm
by Masterchief
Thanks for the explanation. That saved me a lot of time.
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:48 pm
by EmpTyger
Thought I knew what I was going to post, but am second-guessing myself, and it's late enough that I'm going to sleep on it rather than try to refigure things tonight.
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:03 am
by Masterchief
EmpTyger wrote:Thought I knew what I was going to post, but am second-guessing myself, and it's late enough that I'm going to sleep on it rather than try to refigure things tonight.
Then why post this?
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:39 pm
by EmpTyger
I was about to post something, but at the last minute, decided to reconsider because it was 5 AM and I was tired and I wasn’t sure I was analyzing correctly. Now I’m sure.
Vote: Masterchief