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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:46 am

Post by mith »

the optimal play would be to target StD as Player A and one of the (semi-)confirmed players with B. If that player gets anything other than a protective role, it seems that they would get a killing role since StD would be lying scum. If Player B does get a killing role, they can just kill StD outright.
I target him as A, if he's a doc then whoever I pass the ability to can protect someone, and if he's scum they can just kill him during the night.
Oh... but whichever player you decide to target, you should probably tell me before we go to night, so that I don't isolate that player.
Perhaps Glork target me and whoever I'm going to pass StD's ability to?
If I'm understanding your role correctly, if you target me as A and (say) BA as B, we'll both be safe and the ability will get passed.

So, assuming you're telling the truth, if StD is really a doc, then BA gets doc abilities, which he can use on StD, and StD can protect you (or something along those lines), and BA and I are protected as well. If StD is scum, BA gets to kill him.

The problem is that we can't protect you if he's scum. So it might be better to lynch him anyway (then you target me and BA as before, and I send a doc ability to BA, who protects you).
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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:48 am

Post by Glork »

Smashy wrote:Quick question for Glork: Did you recieve a PM last night, and did it mention anything about docs?
Nope, I recieved nothing last night.
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:50 am

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ShadowLurker's First Votecount


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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:53 am

Post by Glork »

Stikey switched to StD in Post 526. [/correction]
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:05 am

Post by Glork »

mith wrote:
the optimal play would be to target StD as Player A and one of the (semi-)confirmed players with B. If that player gets anything other than a protective role, it seems that they would get a killing role since StD would be lying scum. If Player B does get a killing role, they can just kill StD outright.
I target him as A, if he's a doc then whoever I pass the ability to can protect someone, and if he's scum they can just kill him during the night.
Oh... but whichever player you decide to target, you should probably tell me before we go to night, so that I don't isolate that player.
Perhaps Glork target me and whoever I'm going to pass StD's ability to?
If I'm understanding your role correctly, if you target me as A and (say) BA as B, we'll both be safe and the ability will get passed.

So, assuming you're telling the truth, if StD is really a doc, then BA gets doc abilities, which he can use on StD, and StD can protect you (or something along those lines), and BA and I are protected as well. If StD is scum, BA gets to kill him.

The problem is that we can't protect you if he's scum. So it might be better to lynch him anyway (then you target me and BA as before, and I send a doc ability to BA, who protects you).
Erm... yes... I got a bit mixed up there.


So what you're proposing is as follows:
Glork targets Mith and BA.
Mith targets StD (A) and BA (B).
StD protects Glork
If BA can kill, BA kills StD. If BA can protect, he protects StD.

  • If StD, Glork, and Mith are all legit, we have a four-way protection ring going on. We win the game, as there is nothing the scums can do about it.
  • If StD is scum, I die (because StD will kill me instead of protecting me), but StD dies as well (due to BA's presumed ability to kill). With 6-7 players left and only 2-3 of them unconfirmed, our odds are reasonably good.
  • If I'm scum, then the isolation doesn't work; Mith or BA can be killed. Still, that is unlikely to happen, as it would blow my cover. This, however, is fairly testable if there's a cop role out there. They simply target Mith or BA tonight and see if they get a result.
  • If Mith is scum, then the splicing ability doesn't work. BA reports this tomorrow, we lynch Mith dead.
  • If two or more of us are scum, the town's probably completely screwed if we follow this plan.

Now again, this is assuming no interference from the scum. So far, we've had one "Mafia" dead. I'm very hesitant to try to set up nightkills like this, because it's possible that there is a Mafia doctor or roleblocker, or even a GF who is resistant or immune to nightkills. I really want to hear
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:07 am

Post by Glork »

Glork wrote:Now again, this is assuming no interference from the scum. So far, we've had one "Mafia" dead. I'm very hesitant to try to set up nightkills like this, because it's possible that there is a Mafia doctor or roleblocker, or even a GF who is resistant or immune to nightkills. I really want to hear
everybody's
full thoughts on this matter before we make any decisions.
EBWODP: The reason I'm bringing this up is because we seem to have several fairly powerful pro-town roles. For balance's sake, I can't help but wonder if there's a scum ability that could screw everything up.
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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:10 am

Post by ShadowLurker »

ShadowLurker wrote:
The "I Can't Edit Posts" Votecount


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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:20 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

So...Glork's claiming he's a double doc unless he accidently picks a scum and another person and the scum targets the other person, and STD is claiming he's a regular doc, and Mith is claiming he can add one person's ability to someone else, and Armlx could multiply two people's abilities?

Either scum have some kind of roles that can somehow avoid all that, or else the game was utterly broken from the start, or else someone's lying here. I'm going to have to try and figure this all out with a slide rule and a calculater later, but if everyone here's telling the truth, then all it would have taken was a mass claim day one and it sounds like the four of their abilites alone could protect each other and the masons and probably some other people as well the whole game; mith can give someone doc abilites and they can protect someone, Glork can protect STD and someone else, STD can protect mith, and armlx...I never quite understood how that ability was supposed to work, but I think armlx' multiply ability could make mith's ability both add and doc protect or something, so that he protects Glork while also adding his ability to someone else? That sounds like an unbreakable chain where 6 people, including all 4 key roles, can never be killed.

I've seen some pretty broken games, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a game where if 4 pro-town people claim on day 1 the scum autoloses, so I think there's something fishy going on.

After Mith's claim, I tend to believe Glork at this point; I guess he could be a scum doc, but that seems unlikely,and I also don't think it's likely mith and Glork are scum together so I don't think mith'd lie for Glork. Not sure if I believe Mith, though; he could easily have invented that role based on Armlx's claim yesterday, and based his claimed nightchoice on Glork's claim. And really don't know if I believe STD; doc claims are often the last refuge of the scoundrel, and I have a lot of trouble believing that the game has both a doc and a double doc.

Although it sounds like we should be able to test both mith and STD at the same time tonight, by having mith take STD's ability and add it to someone else, and then that person can tell us tommorow if he had a doc ability added to him. That should work, right?
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:29 pm

Post by Smashy »

If by brackets Glork means parenthesis (even though both generally have the same purpose), then mathmatecially it doesn't quite work because if there's a number outside them, then both numbers are affected. Now that I've asked Glork, I need to ask Ubertimmy this: Did you get a PM on Night 1?
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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:30 pm

Post by Smashy »

Couple of bumps so he can potentially post.
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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:31 pm

Post by Smashy »

Although he isn't on. If anyone wants to post before the next multiple of 4, go ahead.
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:20 pm

Post by Glork »

No, I mean "Brackets." As in set notation: S = {1, 2, 4, 5, 6}
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:21 pm

Post by Glork »

Bump....
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:21 pm

Post by Glork »

....for....
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:21 pm

Post by Glork »

....Timmy.
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:05 am

Post by Smashy »

Actually, it's not even on a multiple of 4 <_< Go me and my
COMPLETE INABILITY
to count.
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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:06 am

Post by Smashy »

So in my next post I ask...
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:06 am

Post by Smashy »

Ubertimmy, did you get a PM on Night 1?
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:01 pm

Post by mith »

Mods
: I would like prods on the inactive players (read: ubertimmy). This is getting ridiculous. Maybe this game should have been abandoned after all.
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:01 pm

Post by mith »

I don't really have much else to add today.
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:02 pm

Post by mith »

Though I'm wondering if we should have the others claim at this point to lock them into something. Given that we have over half the players out already.
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:02 pm

Post by mith »

And a fourth...
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:42 pm

Post by Glork »

I still think StD is scum and should die. I'm very,
very
seriously worried that some kind of scum ability can mess up any overnight plans we try to establish. Mith seemed all too willing to claim as soon as I did and while it might be genuine eagerness to break the game, part of me just balks at the idea of putting my faith in one person I am positive is scum (STD) and another one I think might be scum (Mith).
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:57 am

Post by ShadowLurker »

mith wrote:
Mods
: I would like prods on the inactive players (read: ubertimmy). This is getting ridiculous. Maybe this game should have been abandoned after all.
Prodded.
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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:42 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Glork wrote:I still think StD is scum and should die.
Quite possibly. As I said, too much power has been claimed, and I'm thinking that someone is most likely lying. STD has claimed a simple doc role, when every other role claimed so far has been some kind of incredibly over-complicated flying pumpkin role, and that makes me think it's more likely he's scum then anyone else;

Before we do that, though, I still want clarity on the one point; would it it possible for mith to take STD's role and add it someone else, confirming them both? Or do we not want to plan something like that for fear of a scum role-blocker-divider-misdirecter-square root of evil flying pumpkin role messing with it?
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