Mini 438: Mutually Assured Destruction Mafia GAME OVER


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Post Post #575 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:34 am

Post by Jack »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:This game was heavily favored for the scum.

All you needed to prevent a mass claim breaking the game was to provide safe claims for the scum. That's it. Changing the number of nukes out of proportion was completely unnecessary and just confused the town even more. The improbable roles I'm less mad about, but they were still unnecessary. Both of your "anti-mass claim" measures resulted in protown death D1.
I disagree. The kiling of the "unprobable role" townies was just plain bad play. Why would scum make such a horrible claim?
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Post Post #576 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:37 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:This game was heavily favored for the scum.

All you needed to prevent a mass claim breaking the game was to provide safe claims for the scum. That's it. Changing the number of nukes out of proportion was completely unnecessary and just confused the town even more. The improbable roles I'm less mad about, but they were still unnecessary. Both of your "anti-mass claim" measures resulted in protown death D1.
No, they didn't, MOS. Theo was already dead when he claimed the number of nukes, you had already launched on him before he claimed, so the "number of nukes" thing did not actually hurt the town.

The improbable claim thing helped cause NAR's death, sure, but the fact that he launched an ICBM out of the blue for no apparent reason probably had more to do with it then that.

The town should not expect the flavor of claims to find the scum for them. And there was some flavor in there that I still thought would help the town; for example, when designing the game I was thinking that America's flavor and confirmable nuking restrictions would make America a semi-confirmed innocent.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #577 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:50 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Jack wrote:I'm amazed I got away with blatant lurking.
(nods)

Yeah, other then Battlemage (who actually played quite well, did a good job of raising doubts about verious players while staying somewhat in the background) the rest of the scum basically lurked. I actually had a replacement lined up to take over for gameshark, but the game ended before that became necessary.

But yes, the town did let scum get away with lurking too easily in this game while going after more active players. Note to self: must go after lurkers agressivly in future. (See new signature)
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #578 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:19 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Looking back on this game, I have a massive bone to pick.

#1) I nuked in order to lynch. Something had to be done. In truth, it wound up not mattering.. I came into this game with the town in a bigger hole that we thought.

#2) Pooky, I love you. Please, tell the truth about your role for now on. I might have been persuaded otherwise.

#3) I owe someone in an ongoing game an apology about lurking. I just never understood it. I didn't understand it as a playstyle nor a credible reason for playing mafia.
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Post Post #579 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Post by theopor_COD »

theopor_COD wrote:As I've said before nuking NAR was pretty damn stupid, but if I was scum then surely it would make more sense to not fire one, stay well out of the limelight and help lynch him.

Anyway out of the remaining players my main concerns lie with those players doing exactly that, staying out of the limelight and looking to jump onto people to lynch, hence I'm not happy with a MoS or Pooky lynch.

Out of the guys left - Gameshark pings me most mainly due to posts alone, but he's yet to display voting tendencies mind I'd like to hear his thoughts as he promised, Raffles and BM i'm neutral on, Y is logical and seems protown, Anix is absent and unhelpful but Jack and ZuFaul could very well be scum.
Hats of to BM - maybe some of his knockers who regard his lack of mafia ability will take note of his play in this game and his improvement across the site, he had me generally confused throughout, my nuke of NAR was incredibly stupid, however NARs nuke at Pooky and then subsequent claim of Doc which I disbelieved led me to do it. I don't regret doing it, just wish I'd kept up the attack at Gameshark. Fact that BM kept up the relentless attack on me and the insistence that America is scum is worthy of the MVP in my eyes. Well played to him and Jack and Gameshark, a game where lurking prevailed.
Least said about the nukes at the end the better.
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Post Post #580 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:47 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

I still don't consider lurking a credible playstyle. They won, sure, but this game ceased to be considered fun at the point all the scum lurked. Overall, I did not like this game, but no fault to Yos2.

I just ignored BM because his playstyle is always scummy and I didn't feel like making a big deal out of it. That doesn't make his mafia ability increase, though. That's like saying that the day Internet Stranger stopped getting auto-lynched in every game and won a game as scum was proof that he was a good player. IS is a good player because he uses a scummy playstyle, but he can actually catch scum when town, and it's hard to tell his town and scum play apart. BM is like a way downgraded IS that can't catch scum as town.
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Post Post #581 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:50 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Theo-in a wierd way, you're actually fortunate that NAR wasn't a scum with nukes. If he was, he would have been able to nuke you in response to you nuking him; wheras if you had just lynched him, he would not been able to nuke again as he'd already fired his first nuke.

LAL-Eh. The town was in trouble, so you took a gamble. If you had guessed right, you might have been able to nuke 1 scum and lynch another during day 1, which would have put the town into a very strong position. You might have been better off waiting until day 2, when the town'd have a cop investigation to go on, but all in all, not a terrible move considering what you knew at the time.


On another note, I almost broke out laughing when I saw this early theo post:
theopor_COD wrote:
Vote Anix


Can we just nuke BM. Do away with his mad ramblings. :wink:
Ironically, nuking BM would have been about the best possible move you could have done at the time, taking out not only the scum godfather but the only scum who couldn't nuke you back. :lol:
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #582 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:54 pm

Post by theopor_COD »

MoS I appreciate your point, the problem with BM he always acts so damn scummy it's best to ignore him which in this game unfortunately wasn't wise and yeh Yos I should've carried out my plan.

Either way depressing all round.
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Post Post #583 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:08 pm

Post by EmpTyger »

This was a quite an entertaining game to watch as a spectator, and a rather interesting mechanic to see play out. Any plans for a MAD Mafia 2? (MADder Mafia?) And, out of curiosity, what was the magic number?
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Post Post #584 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:12 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

The magic number was 6 nukes to destroy the world. Near the end of day 1 there, I was really wondering if that would happen before the end of the day.

And yeah, I'd consider running this again, although I'd make some rules changes; there were a few rules loopholes/unclear rules that need to be fixed.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #585 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:09 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

I lied because I had a confirmable nuke restriction

I lied because I had so many good reasons why I couldn't be scum

I lied because I thought you guys were capable of reading and paying attention to the game.

I'm glad you guys didn't even take the time to think of a plausible reason why a "rogue state" would have a restriction for nuclear weapon use before you lynched me.

Oh and the reason I nuked raffles was because he was lurking and I suspected the lurkers and he was really the only lurker I could put a nuke order on at the time and because I wanted to "confirm" myself, really didn't see the "we don't give a shit" thing coming from you all.

And my "threaten winter to force confessions plan" was to put pressure on the scum to confess. I didn't actually want to follow through and put the town in winter. I figured with 3 scum who can't communicate, one of the scum might be inexperienced and buckle under hte pressure and cave, that's why I wanted to do it day 1 before they got a chance to confer and for the experienced scum to tell the inexperienced scum not to buckle. IF you had actually decided to play along(you being all townies) then we might have pressured a scum to crack OR at least have an idea of who is scum since the person objecting to the plan or saying that scum wouldn't cave is probably experienced scum who is trying to signal to newbie scum not to confess. The whole plan was a ploy to flush out scum and if you actually looked at the plan there is NO REASON FOR TOWNIES TO DECIDE TO SAY THAT THE PLAN IS STUPID OR WRONG UNTIL 1 HOUR FROM THE DEADLINE FOR FIRING.

The best play for a townie when confronted with this plan is to say yes they will follow it and then change course around the last possible moment. There's no reason to say that it wont work or be bad to far before the deadline because the deadline is when it matters, since that's when the town has to do something. By maintaining solidarity, we would have pressured newbie scum into confessing or pressured experienced scum to speak out against the plan. If you put some actual thought into the game, you would see that the best course for the townie is to not speak out against it until the later parts of the game instead of in the beginning because it has all the benefits of speaking out early with an additional advantage of putting pressure on the scum.
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Post Post #586 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:29 pm

Post by Shanba »

I was hoping for nuclear winter day 1. I didn't get the Pooky lynch at all, in fact, I thought LML was scum for pushing it. Bm's playstyle by being naturally detrimental to the town is an asset for scum. I like posting in threads where I wasn't playing. I'll have to do it more often.
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Post Post #587 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:17 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

lol yeh i was really panicking at the end of yesterday, when you sent me that pm about replacing GS. It sorta implied that you thought we werent going to get to night, hence i was wary about more nukings.
fyi, i dont really think the game was heavily in favour of the scum. in fact, the scum tended to have less nukes than the town, which was surprising. we didnt have much power during the day. the thing that cost you guys the game, were all the ill-considered nukings at the start. i recall someone pointing out that the scum were probably lurking in the shadows while this was going on.
Ironically us mafia didnt kill anyone. it was mostly u nuke-happy townies. ;)

@Jack-i dont think you would have been lynched the next day. what i was hoping to do was to NK MoS, and then convince LML to help us lynch Theo (who was already his top suspect)

@MoS-dont be sore, eh? :wink:

*also, can people please keep the "BM sucks for the town" to a different thread. I wasnt even town here, so it makes no sense.

awesome game. did ZF investigate me last night?

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Yosarian2 wrote:The magic number was 6 nukes to destroy the world. Near the end of day 1 there, I was really wondering if that would happen before the end of the day.

And yeah, I'd consider running this again, although I'd make some rules changes; there were a few rules loopholes/unclear rules that need to be fixed.
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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
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Post Post #588 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:23 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:
PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:And also guys, how do you reconcile the fact that I have a restriction on firing nukes with your belief that I'm a "rogue state"? I've yet to receive an answer for this.

And also, why would you not want to extend deadline to at least see if Raffles is scum or not before lynching me?

This is incredible gross negligence here.

This continual refusal to come up with logical explanations for OBVIOUS problems with this lynch on me is absolutely disgusting.
Your restrictions support your claim of being America, not your alignment. In fact, I'm more likely to believe that scum would have a restriction on their nukes, because otherwise they could just launch a nuke or two and skip endgame to finish us all off.
Quoted in response to pooky's last post.
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Post Post #589 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:12 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

still smoking the "america is rogue state" pot enh?

scum cant just fire nukes to go into endgame and "finish us off" because

a) there's that nuclear winter shit they have to worry about

b) there's this thing that the mod posted which says they have to END a day with 50% scum, if they fire at us at endgame, WE CAN NUKE THEM RIGHT BACK SINCE WE HAVE 48 HOURS TO RETALIATE.

You can't SKIP endgame because the game doesnt END until the nukes have hit the dust and the day has ended!
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Post Post #590 (ISO) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:46 pm

Post by now a ranger »

I take full responsibility for how I played.


OMG I can't believe the 3 scum were lurkers!!!!!!! So invigorating GRRR!


Oh well. I was rooting for LML during Day 1, and hoping that Pooky was scum, but after seeing him mad, I kinda doubted it, and thought perhaps LML might be scum.
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Post Post #591 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:42 am

Post by The Fonz »

Yosarian2 wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:This game was heavily favored for the scum.

All you needed to prevent a mass claim breaking the game was to provide safe claims for the scum. That's it. Changing the number of nukes out of proportion was completely unnecessary and just confused the town even more. The improbable roles I'm less mad about, but they were still unnecessary. Both of your "anti-mass claim" measures resulted in protown death D1.
No, they didn't, MOS. Theo was already dead when he claimed the number of nukes, you had already launched on him before he claimed, so the "number of nukes" thing did not actually hurt the town.

The improbable claim thing helped cause NAR's death, sure, but the fact that he launched an ICBM out of the blue for no apparent reason probably had more to do with it then that.
It was me that MoS nuked. I still maintain that an instant reprisal policy was best for town, and was incredibly miffed at the time that that led to my nuking. Still find it hard to believe MoS was town, tbh.

England being a) called England and not the UK and b) not having nukes was improbable, but nonetheless, nuking a claimed doc who'd been demonstrated not to have nukes was very foolish indeed imho. I can't say Theo nuking NAR was in any way the latter's fault.

I actually didn't think a UN weapons team was that improbable- in order for there to be any safe claims, there'd have to be actual nuclear nations not in it, which would mean additional pro-town roles- that seemed the likely one.

I was actually worried about the possibility of India-as-lyncher when I got my role PM. Guess that wasn't a factor.
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Post Post #592 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:48 am

Post by now a ranger »

I think the moderator mixed up the abilities of the roles so they were hard to guess or claim and not easy for others to believe. :o
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Post Post #593 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:53 am

Post by Battle Mage »

oh and i forgot to say earlier, i really felt bad about Pooky's obvious anguish at being lynched. Sorry! :P
also, i think LML should get Man of the Match, for his whipping of MoS upon replacing in :P
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Day-elimmed by majority - 4

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Post Post #594 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:58 am

Post by zu_Faul »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU2mwrxRQyA
Me wrote:I hate how Jack, theo and gameshark are hiding, when we have such a strict deadline pending for so long. Would be pretty ironic if these three were the scum, wouldn't it?
Me wrote:Vote: Jack

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=375

Look at his posts. He is lurking right in front of us. Bandwagoning without giving reason, just asking questions. Seems very much like scum trying to fly under the radar.
I investigated LML.

Mod edit: Tags fixed
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Post Post #595 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:59 am

Post by zu_Faul »

Please repair the Tags Yos. Where was the limit of nukes?
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Post Post #596 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:47 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:still smoking the "america is rogue state" pot enh?

scum cant just fire nukes to go into endgame and "finish us off" because

a) there's that nuclear winter shit they have to worry about

b) there's this thing that the mod posted which says they have to END a day with 50% scum, if they fire at us at endgame, WE CAN NUKE THEM RIGHT BACK SINCE WE HAVE 48 HOURS TO RETALIATE.

You can't SKIP endgame because the game doesnt END until the nukes have hit the dust and the day has ended!
Why didn't you point this out BEFORE we lynched you?
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Post Post #597 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:48 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Battle Mage wrote:oh and i forgot to say earlier, i really felt bad about Pooky's obvious anguish at being lynched. Sorry! :P
also, i think LML should get Man of the Match, for his whipping of MoS upon replacing in :P
For what? What are you smoking?
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Post Post #598 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:50 am

Post by Battle Mage »

gg reading comprehension. :P

Mastermind of Sin wrote:
Battle Mage wrote:oh and i forgot to say earlier, i really felt bad about Pooky's obvious anguish at being lynched. Sorry! :P
also, i think LML should get Man of the Match, for his whipping of MoS upon replacing in :P
For what? What are you smoking?
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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #599 (ISO) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:52 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Battle Mage wrote:gg reading comprehension. :P

Mastermind of Sin wrote:
Battle Mage wrote:oh and i forgot to say earlier, i really felt bad about Pooky's obvious anguish at being lynched. Sorry! :P
also, i think LML should get Man of the Match, for his whipping of MoS upon replacing in :P
For what? What are you smoking?
gg comprehension of
anything
...
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