Mafiascum.net

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 9:39 am**

In post 574, marcistar wrote:is he the best vote for today? i think i dont mind voting him but if hes scum im unsure who his partner would be.

Lukewarm or Dunnstral imo.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 11:01 am**

In post 567, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I've hardly defended Hopkirk, mainly because i don't think he needs defending. I'm questioning the way you and Lukewarm are tying me to him. Which is natural, given that i am town and extremely suspicious of this fake narrative you're pushing.

This post is

literally

quoting a post where I quoted a bunch of instances in Norwee's ISO of him shading people immediately after they expressed suspicion of Hopkirk.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 11:16 am**

In post 574, marcistar wrote:
In post 476, Bingle wrote:The read on Norwee is recent. I've been solidly pushing Hopkirk for a while now and the only real content Norwee has had has been to shade that push (and literally everyone willing to give it the time of day) and jump on every possible cw.

But Norwee jumps on to GL's wagon without engaging with my push because "WE NEED CONTENT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONE TO MAKE IT BECAUSE READS!"
So why didn't you bring it up before..? Why did you wait until a vanderscamp wagon started? It does seem weird how norwegianboyee wanted content but wouldn't make it, but at the same time, the timing of you putting this read out is weird.. how recent is the read, just after his complaining about content thingy..?

Norwee jumping feetfirst into a weaker case is a big portion of where that read started. He handwaived away "Hopkirk is provably lying about what I'm doing and accusing me of lying about it in the same breath." and jumped feetfirst into the first alternative that showed up.

In post 527, Bingle wrote:I’m townreading all of Dunn/Marci/GL/Luke. People are aggressively ignoring how obvscum norwee and hopkirk are.
what reasons do you have for the dunnstral townread?
i don't think people are "aggressively ignoring" it... it seems like you really want it but deep down i don't agree with norwegianboyee and hopkirk being "obvscum". i think hopkirk seems townie

I posted multiple posts pages ago about why I think Hopkirk is scum. Luke also posted multiple posts pages ago about Hopkirk being scummy. The extent of your interaction with those posts is literally this post I'm quoting, right now. GL hasn't even done that. Scamp? Nada. N_M? Nothing. How is that not aggressively ignoring it?

I still think Dunn is not S/S with N_M from early interactions. I also don't think Dunn makes sense as a Norwee partner here given Norwee's shade on Dunn. Ergo, Dunn is town.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 11:16 am**

In post 573, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 477, Bingle wrote:I'll hammer Scamp if he hits E-1 on the premise we turbolim Hop then Norwee after.
Would you agree to a vote on you given the same premise?

Yes.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 11:20 am**

Spoiler: The Ever Growing List of Things That Norwee and Hoppy Can't Answer

In post 553, Bingle wrote:
In post 535, Bingle wrote:Hey Hopkirk.

In post 529, Bingle wrote:
In post 448, Bingle wrote:
In post 425, Hopkirk wrote:since you didn't bother quoting the actual problem i had. 376 DOES NOT MENTION THE WORD ANALYSIS. it's about lack of direction/scumreads compared to the first. you can tell because that's the words i used when i was talking about it. have a look back to 376 and please explain how i'm talking about lack of analysis in that post. the three posts you quoted literally demonstrate my point. there's no clear scumreads there/it feels like they haven't started looking. don't try and put words in my mouth that drastically alter the meaning of what i'm saying
It's really cool that 376 doesn't mention analysis. You know what else doesn't mention analysis? 402. It's kinda like you made that whole bit about me putting words into your mouth up by putting words in my mouth, when literally the whole point of 402 was showing the posts you were comparing side by side because you were making shit up in the first place.

In post 447, Bingle wrote:I also think it's rather fun that Hopkirk is accusing me of scumreading him as a chainsaw defense of Luke when A) my scumread of him predates his Luke case and B) I specifically said that the push felt like a distraction from my push on him.

In post 446, Bingle wrote:
In post 425, Hopkirk wrote:i did note that he didn't express any difference between joining those and starting off in this game. obviously there's going to be a pronounced difference there, but i think it would have been reasonable to mention that just now when i asked about whether his play was difference.
Acknowledging that the reason is shit doesn't somehow make the reason not shit.

How the fuck are 118, 120, and 136 showing less of a direction or scumreads? He's literally calling for more content, poking two people (N_M and Norwee) for strange behavior and saying he thinks they might be scum for it, and explaining a townread.

In post 536, Bingle wrote:
In post 520, NorwegianboyEE wrote:And don't you find it weird how incredibly confident Bingle is that i'm Hopkirk's scum partner? I think Bingle is rather scummy, and yet i have no strong read for who his partner would be. I find that early confidence incredibly scummy given that he hasn't even clarified why he believes it's me Hopkirk other than some vague shit like "nOrWeE dOeSn'T sCuMrEaD HoPkIrK!"

In post 476, Bingle wrote:The read on Norwee is recent. I've been solidly pushing Hopkirk for a while now and the only real content Norwee has had has been to shade that push (and literally everyone willing to give it the time of day) and jump on every possible cw.

Meanwhile, I posted about how Hopkirk has accused me of misrepping him by putting words in his mouth by putting words in my mouth, making shit up to shitpush Luke exactly after I started pushing him, and an incredibly political stance on Norwee. I even brought up that I didn't want to have it buried, and let's look at the people who have actually engaged with it?

But Norwee jumps on to GL's wagon without engaging with my push because "WE NEED CONTENT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONE TO MAKE IT BECAUSE READS!"

In post 566, Bingle wrote:
NorwegianboyEE wrote:Isn't it funny how you keep saying blatant lies and then apparently the fact that i've not answered one of your pointless questions and not really shaded anyone that scumread Hopkirk is such a big deal it wholly convinced you that i am 100% a scum partner defending Hopkirk.
In post 407, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Bingle do you think you'd push Hopkirk as an mislim if you were scum under most normal circumstances or would you rather buddy them?

In post 409, NorwegianboyEE wrote:VOTE: Lukewarm

In post 460, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 424, Lukewarm wrote:Then Bingle came in with 402 and when he showed the post that you were refering to as my post with reads / reasoning, and I realized that your case was in bad faith.

Like, in that game, I had 4 posts by the end of the 3rd day. In this game I had 41 by the end of the 3rd day. So if you are claiming that that game I was doing more to move the game forward, I no longer think you are making your case in good faith.
Eww.

In post 461, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 449, Dunnstral wrote:I reread Vanderscamp, not feeling like voting there

I don't want to vote for Marci or Guiltylion either

So for me it's Luke or hopkirk in the 6

VOTE: Hopkirk
Literally just the same thoughts currently shared by everyone you came up with.

In post 462, NorwegianboyEE wrote:442 is an interesting post.
I feel like it’s more likely to come from town tbh. But i haven’t liked their other "cases" recently on me/Hopkirk.
I’ll need to give this some more time. UNVOTE:

Oh I’m sorry about all of the SEQUENTIAL POSTS FROM YOUR ISO SHADING PEOPLE FOR SCUMREADING HOPKIRK I just linked. It’s kinda like you’re still lying.

In post 568, Bingle wrote:
In post 562, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Isn't it funny how you keep saying blatant lies and then apparently the fact that i've not answered one of your pointless questions and not really shaded anyone that scumread Hopkirk is such a big deal it wholly convinced you that i am 100% a scum partner defending Hopkirk.

In post 553, Bingle wrote:
In post 535, Bingle wrote:Hey Hopkirk.

In post 529, Bingle wrote:
In post 448, Bingle wrote:
In post 425, Hopkirk wrote:since you didn't bother quoting the actual problem i had. 376 DOES NOT MENTION THE WORD ANALYSIS. it's about lack of direction/scumreads compared to the first. you can tell because that's the words i used when i was talking about it. have a look back to 376 and please explain how i'm talking about lack of analysis in that post. the three posts you quoted literally demonstrate my point. there's no clear scumreads there/it feels like they haven't started looking. don't try and put words in my mouth that drastically alter the meaning of what i'm saying
It's really cool that 376 doesn't mention analysis. You know what else doesn't mention analysis? 402. It's kinda like you made that whole bit about me putting words into your mouth up by putting words in my mouth, when literally the whole point of 402 was showing the posts you were comparing side by side because you were making shit up in the first place.

In post 447, Bingle wrote:I also think it's rather fun that Hopkirk is accusing me of scumreading him as a chainsaw defense of Luke when A) my scumread of him predates his Luke case and B) I specifically said that the push felt like a distraction from my push on him.

In post 446, Bingle wrote:
In post 425, Hopkirk wrote:i did note that he didn't express any difference between joining those and starting off in this game. obviously there's going to be a pronounced difference there, but i think it would have been reasonable to mention that just now when i asked about whether his play was difference.
Acknowledging that the reason is shit doesn't somehow make the reason not shit.

How the fuck are 118, 120, and 136 showing less of a direction or scumreads? He's literally calling for more content, poking two people (N_M and Norwee) for strange behavior and saying he thinks they might be scum for it, and explaining a townread.

In post 536, Bingle wrote:
In post 520, NorwegianboyEE wrote:And don't you find it weird how incredibly confident Bingle is that i'm Hopkirk's scum partner? I think Bingle is rather scummy, and yet i have no strong read for who his partner would be. I find that early confidence incredibly scummy given that he hasn't even clarified why he believes it's me Hopkirk other than some vague shit like "nOrWeE dOeSn'T sCuMrEaD HoPkIrK!"

In post 476, Bingle wrote:The read on Norwee is recent. I've been solidly pushing Hopkirk for a while now and the only real content Norwee has had has been to shade that push (and literally everyone willing to give it the time of day) and jump on every possible cw.

Meanwhile, I posted about how Hopkirk has accused me of misrepping him by putting words in his mouth by putting words in my mouth, making shit up to shitpush Luke exactly after I started pushing him, and an incredibly political stance on Norwee. I even brought up that I didn't want to have it buried, and let's look at the people who have actually engaged with it?

But Norwee jumps on to GL's wagon without engaging with my push because "WE NEED CONTENT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONE TO MAKE IT BECAUSE READS!"

Oh I’m sorry that I was linking the post where you said I never clarified why you were scum with hopkirk and the post where I talked about why you were scum with hopkirk, as proof that you’re full of shit.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 11:43 am**

553
- we both know that scum don't intentionally make up words. assuming this is 'scum posting provably false quotes' is stupid. content rich clearly = analysis. if you think someone lies about this kind of thing then i can't help you
- you didn't have any genuine reasons for a scumread. the stuff about FL/justifying a joke is the stupidest thing i've read on this site since last game with agar
- because the post i pointed to in the other game has multiple directly stated scumreads in a couple of posts rather than a couple of slight leans in about 30 posts. clear difference.

that wasn't as much as that long post that double quoted long posts looked like

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 11:46 am**

i'm not giving Bingle the benefit of the doubt here because from what i've heard about him he

should

be too good to tunnel on something as stupid as the FL/Flopz/Isis etc said something about WIM and on a push against Bingle like that (that he knows isn't coming from scum hop given he's read my last 3 scumgames). i don't really buy him being this bad?

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 11:49 am**

oh yeah, Jingle's alleged convinction is incredibly out of line with what's reasonable. i'm not super confident on Luke because this can easily be Scum!Bingle throwing shade at me/norway with the intent of letting a Luke wagon go through today then plan to shade me/norway from it. Scum!Bingle doesn't need to care about openwolfing when he's not at a realistic risk of us voting him on account of the setup/stated desires to vote in the 6p pool

In post 573, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 477, Bingle wrote:I'll hammer Scamp if he hits E-1 on the premise we turbolim Hop then Norwee after.
Would you agree to a vote on you given the same premise?

we all know we're voting in the 6p pool so this question is pointless

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 11:51 am**

In post 527, Bingle wrote:
In post 524, Vanderscamp wrote:
In post 502, NorwegianboyEE wrote:And like Marcistar said, apparently Bingle thought it was a 50/50% chance either N_M or me could be scum with Hopkirk, his pet scumread. But now he is 100% sure it’s me and Hopkirk to the extent he will quickhammer someone he townreads just to eliminate us? Thst’s some scummy garbage.
VOTE: Bingle
I agree with this

I'd like to hear what bingle thinks is different about me this game vs last game which would justify him being willing to hammer me here.
I’m townreading all of Dunn/Marci/GL/Luke. People are aggressively ignoring how obvscum norwee and hopkirk are.

If I have to lim you to get norwee/hopkirk, so be it.

can you outline town!dunn and town!GL?

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 1:47 pm**

In post 580, Hopkirk wrote:- we both know that scum don't intentionally make up words. assuming this is 'scum posting provably false quotes' is stupid. content rich clearly = analysis. if you think someone lies about this kind of thing then i can't help you

Content Rich clearly = direction/scumreads, given the context that you asserted he had no direction or scumreads and I quoted him having more direction and reads than the post you were comparing to.

Town doesn't make up reasons to scumread people and then refuse to engage when shown to be wrong all the while maintaining the scumread. I think someone lies about this thing because you provably did lie about this thing, so... you're right in that you can't help me not see reality?

Hopkirk wrote:- you didn't have any genuine reasons for a scumread. the stuff about FL/justifying a joke is the stupidest thing i've read on this site since last game with agar

Disregarding entirely that the FL stuff was something I've explained the angle behind multiple times, this ignores that I found you scummy pre-luke push for the performative nature of your play around Norwee, as expressed in post 304. Summing that up into :The stuff around FL: is not reasonable, and doesn't dismiss the actual inaccuracy in your timeline: "Bingle pushed me for pushing Lukewarm therefore Bingle is chainsaw defending Lukewarm" when the actual timeline is "Bingle pushed me and then I pushed Lukewarm disingenuously and Bingle pointed that out while continuing to push me".

As far as the lack of difference between the games, I will merely point out, once again, that the content you said was more in depth was from ~72 hours into the game compared to the similar level of content on literally the first day of this game.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 1:52 pm**

In post 583, Hopkirk wrote:can you outline town!dunn and town!GL?

Literally did the dunn thing in the last two pages.

GL: I buy into the slip logic from Norwee as probably right, thought GL's reaction to being pushed over that felt town, and don't think Norwee tries to instigate that particular fake slip with a buddy the way he did. 163-172 is just super weird in a Norwee/GL scumteam world.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 2:07 pm**

In post 534, Hopkirk wrote:Does anyone have a read on dunnstral? It's hard to sort with this little content.

@dunn - you've seen my last two scumgames from the town side and the scumside. You're scumreading me?

Why should I not be?

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 2:09 pm**

In post 578, Bingle wrote:
In post 573, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 477, Bingle wrote:I'll hammer Scamp if he hits E-1 on the premise we turbolim Hop then Norwee after.
Would you agree to a vote on you given the same premise?
Yes.

Okay. Here is what I am thinking. Bingle is (from what I can tell from other games) an extremely good scum hunter. Like multiple people in other games looking at his scum reads like they are gospel. And here, he is either scum, or he is 100% convinced he has found the scum.

I am no longer willing to consider any vote outside of [Norwee, Hopkirk, Bingle], and if we vote Bingle and he is town, then we immediately follow through on his Hopkirk read.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 2:13 pm**

In post 582, Hopkirk wrote:
In post 573, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 477, Bingle wrote:I'll hammer Scamp if he hits E-1 on the premise we turbolim Hop then Norwee after.
Would you agree to a vote on you given the same premise?
we all know we're voting in the 6p pool so this question is pointless

Vanders, Norwee, and Not_Mafia have all stated they would prefer a 3P vote today.

You seems like you should be on board for a bingle vote.

I am now willing to hammer bingle if no one will follow me to on a vote against you/Norww

That is enough to elim.

So definitly not a pointless quesion.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 2:17 pm**

In post 584, Bingle wrote:"Bingle pushed me for pushing Lukewarm therefore Bingle is chainsaw defending Lukewarm" when the actual timeline is "Bingle pushed me and then I pushed Lukewarm disingenuously and Bingle pointed that out while continuing to push me".

This is the real time line...

I really am not liking hopkrik here

But I think that the only way to stop the massive noise around this might be for a bingle vote.

I personally think that everyone in the thread should move their vote to either Hopkirk or Bingle. I just don't see them being TvT

VOTE: Hopkirk

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 4:37 pm**

In post 587, Lukewarm wrote:Okay. Here is what I am thinking. Bingle is (from what I can tell from other games) an extremely good scum hunter. Like multiple people in other games looking at his scum reads like they are gospel. And here, he is either scum, or he is 100% convinced he has found the scum.

FWIW, there are many people who have a higher opinion of my scumhunting prowess than I do.

I'm still absolutely fine being BoP'd here.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 5:08 pm**

Here are a few things I want to point out about Hopkirk

Hopkirk accused Bingle of chainsaw defending me, when I don't think he could have genuinely thought that.

Bingle has been pushing on Hopkirk for a while, and Hopkirk knows that.
Hopkirk interacted with Bingle's read on him in posts 301 302 307 308 and 325. So he knew Bingle was pushing on him, even called it a shitpush

Then hopkirk made a case against me starting at post 372.

Then Hopkirk accused Bingle of chainsaw defending me in 415.

Also, this feels wrong too

Spoiler:

Because when he asked me if I thought I was playing differently, he did not just ask. He accused me of playing really really differently, then doubled down with a case. To then say that that came without ever looking back over my games seems wrong.

But again. Does anyone think that Hopkirk and Bingle could be TvT? Because I don't. Like, one of them has to be scum imo. So I feel like everyone should switch their vote to one of them.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 7:14 pm**

I have read up but it is late and I'm tired and I need to sleep on things before really diving back into this game, I'll be around tomorrow

my current laying in bed hot takes:

- Lukewarm posted a great point in our hood about how scum!Bingle would have hard defended both marcistar and Lukewarm slots away from potential elimination today and to what gain? If it's something like a Bingle-Dunn or Bingle-Vanderscamp team, that's playing fairly awkwardly as it's strictly increasing chance of autoloss. I was kinda waiting to see if Lukewarm would raise the same points in the thread, but he hasn't?

- Overall I do find Bingle scummiest in the 3p hood in a vacuum but I'm struggling to see winning partner candidates due to the above ^. This is one of the matters I intend to sleep on. If you're in this game and scumreading Bingle but townreading Lukewarm/marcistar I need help seeing why Bingle is playing the way he's playing - who is his partner and how do they win after we eliminate a town!Hopkirk?

- Vander's reply to me is alright, I guess. I feel a bit more town vibes from him now that he's actually playing, I still disagree with a few of points, should probably cede a few others

- I thiiiiink I agree Bingle/Hopkirk really doesn't feel TvT, eliminating either way there is likely a good call for D1. I do intend to sleep on this and look at all the Bingle/Hopkirk posts in closer detail so no flashwagons tonight plz

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 7:15 pm**

In post 582, Hopkirk wrote:we all know we're voting in the 6p pool so this question is pointless

If Bingle is literally being the scummiest person alive would you still follow through?

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 7:31 pm**

In post 592, GuiltyLion wrote:- Lukewarm posted a great point in our hood about how scum!Bingle would have hard defended both marcistar and Lukewarm slots away from potential elimination today and to what gain? If it's something like a Bingle-Dunn or Bingle-Vanderscamp team, that's playing fairly awkwardly as it's strictly increasing chance of autoloss. I was kinda waiting to see if Lukewarm would raise the same points in the thread, but he hasn't?

I was waiting to see if Bingle would bring it up himself / slip that he has heard that arguement from the 6P hood. Never saw it from him tho

Everyone in the 6P chat had already seen me say it, so did not feel the need to add it here. As an argument, it would be useful information for exactly 1 other townie, so seemed worth holding it back to see if anyone seemed aware of the neighborhood discussion.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 10:10 pm**

In post 527, Bingle wrote:
In post 524, Vanderscamp wrote:
In post 502, NorwegianboyEE wrote:And like Marcistar said, apparently Bingle thought it was a 50/50% chance either N_M or me could be scum with Hopkirk, his pet scumread. But now he is 100% sure it’s me and Hopkirk to the extent he will quickhammer someone he townreads just to eliminate us? Thst’s some scummy garbage.
VOTE: Bingle
I agree with this

I'd like to hear what bingle thinks is different about me this game vs last game which would justify him being willing to hammer me here.
I’m townreading all of Dunn/Marci/GL/Luke. People are aggressively ignoring how obvscum norwee and hopkirk are.

If I have to lim you to get norwee/hopkirk, so be it.

The first line is fine, the second line is not.
How do you think that would help you kill them?

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 10:10 pm**

What I mean is: first sentence and third sentence

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 10:13 pm**

In post 534, Hopkirk wrote:Does anyone have a read on dunnstral? It's hard to sort with this little content.

@dunn - you've seen my last two scumgames from the town side and the scumside. You're scumreading me?

Scummy for lack of game solving, would happily kill there

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 10:13 pm**

In post 544, NorwegianboyEE wrote:if he flips town i will gladly take the elimination tommorow. Just give me this one thing.

I think this is very towny from nor

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 10:14 pm**

In post 551, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 477, Bingle wrote:I'll hammer Scamp if he hits E-1 on the premise we turbolim Hop then Norwee after.
Daily reminder of how scummy this fucking post is.

I also still agree with this

Mafiascum.net

Micro 1010: Divide and Conquer: Round 2 - Game Over!