Mini 525 "Masons & Mafia"! (Over)


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Post Post #600 (ISO) » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:21 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Yes. But since I don't think you're scum AND I don't think that we should be trying to lynch masons, that entire "plan" isn't really my opinion of our best option.
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Post Post #601 (ISO) » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:31 pm

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

ooba wrote: But this would mean game over if I was just a stupid townie who hammered mathcam.
That's sort of the risk we run with every lynch right now.
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Post Post #602 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:07 am

Post by ooba »

I'd really like to hear from Miztef and Mr.Flay right now ..
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Post Post #603 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:00 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Indeed. We should be lynching Mr. Flay, BTW. We should probably also be lynching TSPN, Yosarian2, and Miztef, in that order.
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Post Post #604 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:31 am

Post by Miztef »

for lurking, I suppose?

I'm not really trying to lurk, just have very little to say. To my knowledge though, isn't Mr.Flay getting replaced or has a reason for his absence? I thought something happened that made Mr.Flay not a good lynch candidate...

anyway, TSPN I do agree with, and I don't really think Yos2 has done anything to catch my attention lately.

We're basically at a stand still.
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Post Post #605 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:51 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

Okay, this is likely to be hella ugly, but I want to get it all down in the thread. next post will have actual analysis.
[mrow]Date of post[col]TheSweatpantsNinja[col]Mastermind of Sin 11/07/07 [col] [col]First posts; randomly votes tyhess 11/07/07 [col] [col]Actual analysis; votes mathcam, FOS on Yosarian2, defends Nightfall 11/07/07 [col] [col]Defends his forgetting about the game for four pages; only suspicious of Yos2 in context of mathcam being scum, not vice versa. 11/15/07 [col] [col]Doesn't like the tyhess wagon; further explained in http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 841#84884111/18/07 [col] [col]Disappointed in mathcam's lack of defense of himself. 11/28/07 [col] [col]Likes Distad's argument against Yos2, but likes his vote on mathcam better. 11/28/07 [col]First impression is that he doesn't like Yos2, and votes as such (note that this follows very closely the distad argument that MoS likes so much). Thinks MoS, Waldo, and mathcam are pro-town. Ooba and Archaist may be the other scum (ABR is already dead at this point). [col] 11/29/07 [col]Further agreement with distad on the Yos-mathcam pairing. [col] 11/29/07 [col]Thinks Archaist's vote on mathcam is 'stretched'. [col] 11/30/07 [col] [col]Doesn't think mathcam's done anything particularly anti-scum, just trying to appear helpful. 12/02/07 [col] [col]Thinks Waldo gave himself away; now/still wants to kill mathcam. 12/03/07 [col]Suddenly shifts from voting Miztef to voting mathcam, after believing mathcam previously to be pro-town. [col] 12/04/07 [col] [col]Believes the Mafia already know mathcam is not a Mason. 12/04/07 [col]Believes the mathcam wagon has 0% chance of running up a Mason. [col] 12/05/07 [col]Wants to lynch mathcam quickly, not patiently. [col] 12/05/07 [col] [col]Believes mathcam to not be a Mason. 12/07/07 [col] [col]Unvotes, then revotes mathcam sarcastically. 12/07/07 [col]Wants mathcam to roll over and be lynched [col] 12/07/07 [col]Unvotes mathcam and votes Yos2 instead. [col] 12/11/07 [col] [col]Believes mathcam is more likely to be scum in his position than someone else would be. 12/13/07 [col]Believes town-mathcam would have been hammered by now, but scum-mathcam would have daykilled by now. [col] 12/14/07 [col]Votes ooba after mathcam's lynch (1st vote) [col] 12/15/07 [col] [col]Votes ooba after mathcam's lynch (3rd vote). 12/17/07 [col] [col]Suddenly believes mathcam was a gambiting townie, and that ooba-scum fell for it. 12/19/07 [col]Believes the mathcam gambit was ridiculous (and specifically agrees with MoS), but that ooba fell for it. [col] 12/25/07 [col] [col]Suspects both ooba and Yos2, but ooba more apparently 9since he's voting him). 01/02/08 [col]Believes Yos2 gave off scummy vibes when he first arrived, but doesn't have solid evidence to vote him at this point. [col] 01/03/08 [col] [col]Switches his vote to Yos2 based on Yos attaching himself to mathcam's logic on the Nightfall-lynch. 01/08/08 [col]Doesn't want it intimated that he's clearing Yos2, but agrees with him about the Nightfall lynch. [col] 01/08/08 [col] [col]Tyhess is his second choice after Yos2 now (what happened to ooba?) 01/08/08 [col] [col]"If mathcam was protown, I would be less suspicious of Yos2 by far. " on Nov. 7th, directly contradicted by "With mathcam proven to be town, it becomes more likely that Yos2 was linking himself to mathcam, especially since most of the links in the original theory were based on Yos2's actions, not mathcam's." here. 01/15/08 [col] [col]Frankly, some bullshit about Yos2 covering his tracks by defending mathcam and then saying other people did so. 01/20/08 [col] [col]Says he's leaving mafiascum.net. 01/26/08 [col] [col]MoS' first bloody mention of TSN since he replaced in; asking him to comment on the MoS/Yos tiff. 01/28/08 [col]Switches to tyhess (3rd vote?) based on the "Obvious reasons?" post, still wants to hold ooba's feet to the fire. [col] 02/07/08 [col] [col]Believes the remaining scum could be tyhess/ooba, Yos/Flay, and maybe TSN or Miztef. 02/07/08 [col]Wants to lynch tyhess. [col] 02/11/08 [col]Unvotes tyhess based on ooba's argument about LyTLo. [col] 02/12/08 [col]Votes ooba. [col] 02/12/08 [col] [col]Thinks TSN's vote for ooba is "re-tard-ed". 02/13/08 [col] [col]"Man, that would make it easy for the scum to find us." mason-gambit. Explains why he's upset with TSN. 02/19/08 [col] [col]Asks distad if he'd vote for TSN if tyhess comes up town.
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Post Post #606 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:16 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

Obviously it's not an iron-clad case, but I think there's some definite similarities in how MoS and TSN viewed Yos2 in November, ooba (in mid-December, anyway), and at times mathcam, especially the weird flip-flops on whether or not mathcam is town or not right around the time he was being bandwagoned/lynched.

Do I really think TSN is following coat-tails here anymore? No, but I think it's REAL coincidental that they don't start mentioning each other or disagreeing with each other until I made my post upon arrival. Now all of a sudden TSN is "retarded", and they're bickering all the time. I think there's a better than average chance that they're scumbuddies together, and I still believe MoS is scum. The "Yos2 is buddying up/following/framing/defending mathcam" crap out of MoS is REAL lame, but TSN is ahead in votes, for
Unvote, Vote TheSweatpantsNinja
. I believe that's L-1...
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Post Post #607 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:57 pm

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

Hell. I'm one of the last two vanillas. Lynch me and we lose.
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Post Post #608 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:39 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

What? Since when have I been bickering with TSPN? The only person I've had any real direct exchanges with in this game were mathcam and Yos2. TSPN is not on that list, so there's no way I could be "bickering" with him. His vote on Ooba WAS "retarded", there is nothing "bickering" about it. I don't have any personal problem with TSPN. I explained fairly well why TSPN's actions were not well thought-out.

I love how you throw in some extra posts that don't really have any connection to TSPN except coincidentally, as if they meant something towards a connection with him. You're really stretching to make a case here. Sensing your chance to get on that wagon? I think so.

Regardless, though, Miztef's post combined with Mr. Flay's "result" has convinced me that TSPN is the odd one out of my group of four. It's ironic that Miztef says Yos2 hasn't done much to get his attention lately, when Yos2 has pretty much been lying low and just talking game theory for the last two weeks... It would be easier if I could list out my entire thought process, but we're so close to lynching TSPN that I need to make a few things clear. I have mapped out a fairly good representation of who has which non-scum roles, the results leave the three of them as scum. A scan through their posts and a few select others makes a pretty good case in itself. But unlike Mr. Flay, I don't need to post some gigantic table as if it's going to make my case for me (you didn't actually ever make a case there, but we'll skip over that as if it didn't happen ;) ).

The tyhess wagon screamed easy target all over it, and I'm glad that we didn't go through with it. The scum were happy to go after the guy that made a rookie mistake in agreeing with other people and not making a completely separate case on his own so that he couldn't be connected to them. Seriously, is that all you guys got? He "followed" mathcam and then thought he was scum? It's a horrible case, it was then and it is now. And Yos2 was very supportive of it, as was Miztef. Mr. Flay, on the other hand, has spent every single one of his posts talking about myself or TSPN. He has not even bothered to
mention
anyone else in the game, except when paraphrasing mine and TSPN's posts in his giant table. He has done no analysis of other players, pulling a tunnel-vision act on us with an incredibly weak case that was debunked pretty much as soon as he posted it. It's unlike Flay to present such weak cases and fail to comment on other players. Protown Flay is very thorough. I believe scum Flay wished to focus attention on myself and TSPN so that he could get one of us lynched and avoid having to comment on his scumpartners.

If you needed anymore proof that TSPN is protown, just think about the fact that Mr. Flay and Miztef both support his lynch, and Yos2 has been arguing with him for a while, although he's avoided actually making any statements of analysis lately.

So let's vote Mr. Flay and get us a scum. This is a pretty easy read, guys. I don't want this to be another Cassandra game for me.
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Post Post #609 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:28 pm

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

I disagree with you about tyhess, but other than that, that post is accurate. I'll certainly support a flay lynch over a me lynch. But that's obvious. I think flay's really stretching the connection between us, possibly because it doesn't matter if he's obvious scum if one of us gets lynched.
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Post Post #610 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:44 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:Hell. I'm one of the last two vanillas. Lynch me and we lose.
...This post is so insanely stupid I can't even respond to it. In a game where outing a Townie MIGHT lose the game, and where claiming has NO benefit, you do this?!?

it doesn't matter what the truth of your role is at this point. This post was a stupid appeal to emotion.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:If you needed anymore proof that TSPN is protown, just think about the fact that Mr. Flay and Miztef both support his lynch, and Yos2 has been arguing with him for a while, although he's avoided actually making any statements of analysis lately.
Speaking of tunnel-vision... because you just KNOW that Flay/Miztef/Yosarian2 are the scum, it should be patently obvious that TSPN is pro-town. Come again??

Have I been lazy and not playing my best in this game? Absolutely, but that doesn't follow that I'm being scum. Hell, you know better than that; I tend to play an easy, relaxed game as scum, because I've got all the answers and don't have to work as hard for my analysis. My posting here is consistent with distractedFlay, not scumFlay. Try again.
I don't want this to be another Cassandra game for me.
:roll: Don't worry, it won't be...You were wrong about mathcam. I think you're wrong about Yosarian2. I know you're wrong about me. I think you're wrong about TSN... Cassandra isn't your problem this time, MoS. Bad logic and bad argumentation is.
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Post Post #611 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:37 am

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

Well, lynching a townie
will
lose the game. So I weighed the risk of outing myself today and potentially losing the game for it tomorrow versus the risk of definitely losing it today. I'd be equally as outed on my lynch if I had let it happen without claiming.
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Post Post #612 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:05 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Mr. Flay wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:If you needed anymore proof that TSPN is protown, just think about the fact that Mr. Flay and Miztef both support his lynch, and Yos2 has been arguing with him for a while, although he's avoided actually making any statements of analysis lately.
Speaking of tunnel-vision... because you just KNOW that Flay/Miztef/Yosarian2 are the scum, it should be patently obvious that TSPN is pro-town. Come again??
That's not what I said at all. TSPN was one of my top 4 suspects for scum. 3 of you were scum, I was sure of that. Miztef's and your attempts to get him lynched and Miztef's protection of Yos2 are a bit too sincere for TSPN to be your scumpartner. By process of elimination, it leaves the three of you as scum, not the other way around.
Have I been lazy and not playing my best in this game? Absolutely, but that doesn't follow that I'm being scum. Hell, you know better than that; I tend to play an easy, relaxed game as scum, because I've got all the answers and don't have to work as hard for my analysis. My posting here is consistent with distractedFlay, not scumFlay. Try again.
I *know* better than that? Do you know the last time I remember playing with scumFlay? Guitarists mafia, 2005. And I don't even know if there IS a definition for "distractedFlay", because I've never seen it and noticed it. But I do know what townFlay looks like, and this is NOT townFlay.
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Post Post #613 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:07 am

Post by Miztef »

These arguments are good, but really don't reach a conclusion for me. I am tempted to vote Flay if only on the small info MoS has given. For me, MoS is not a great candidate for lynch atm. TSN seems honest about his claim too.

TSN, only for now, doesn't seem like the right lynch for me.

So, we're at a crossroads so to speak. I will
unvote
for now, and develop a better opinion.
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Post Post #614 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:34 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:Well, lynching a townie
will
lose the game. So I weighed the risk of outing myself today and potentially losing the game for it tomorrow versus the risk of definitely losing it today. I'd be equally as outed on my lynch if I had let it happen without claiming.

...

The entire argument was that lynching a townie loses the game becuase then a scum could claim who he was going to kill, attempt the kill, and then if he died his scumbuddies would know who the last townie was, which would let them kill off the masons and win. That's WHY a townie getting lynched loses the game for the town.

However, A TOWNIE CLAIMING TOWNIE LOSES THE GAME FOR THE TOWN JUST AS QUICKY, for the EXACT same reason. If one scum dies, and then the scum kill off all the masons, then the scum win. It dosn't matter if there's one townie left or two townies left, scum auto-win if they have 50% of the survivors. Which they would.

At this point, if you are telling the truth, then you just clearly and unequivilically lost the game for the town. I can only hope that you're lying scum, otherwise, we lose.

So, since we are now doomed unless you're scum, and since I can't imagine a vanilia townie being foolish enough to claim vanillia townie in this situation,
vote:TheSweatpantsNinja
.
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Post Post #615 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:38 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

The scum don't have the balls to test TSPN's claim. The assertion that he HAS to be lying scum for us to not automatically lose is a flat out opportunistic lie on your part, Yos2. Nice try, though.
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Post Post #616 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:39 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Not to mention the fact that you glossed over how pretty much everyone *has* to claim townie regardless of role, because you can't claim mason. TSPN's statement that he is a townie means nothing.
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Post Post #617 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:10 pm

Post by Miztef »

Now, that I've read it over, I have to agree with Yos2. It is a close to absolute lose scenario if TSN is indeed town claiming town. I think there is very little chance a town would go with this claim, and instead, I believe it is a scum ploy to protect himself near lynch.

I will
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, which should be a hammer.
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Post Post #618 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:12 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

No. We've established pretty categorically that there's no point in claiming truthfully AT ALL in this game. Masons won't do it, Mafia won't do it, and Townies now have 0 incentive to do it. So TSN is either an idiot or scum. I'm leaning toward scum...

Seriously MoS. How can you fail to understand, with all your vaunted innate comprehension of this game's intricacies, that claiming Townie at this point is useless? Mafia know who their opposite are, Masons know who Masons are and are not... the only thing giving me pause here is that you're playing TOO stupid to be scum. Too transparent... but not in the town's interest, as far as I've ever seen. Your targets have been jumpy, you've outright lied and misrepresented your positions, and you appear to have tunnel-vision.

TSN: If you believe ooba is non-townie, why bring it up? This game makes NO damn sense to me...
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Post Post #619 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:08 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:The scum don't have the balls to test TSPN's claim. The assertion that he HAS to be lying scum for us to not automatically lose is a flat out opportunistic lie on your part, Yos2. Nice try, though.
Huh? How would the scum "test" a vanillia townie claim?

All I'm saying is that if he is a vanillia townie, and he's telling the truth, then the town loses here.

If he was pro-town and telling the truth, that would give enough informaion to the scum for them to find and kill all the masons and win right now. So no, it's not an "opportunistic lie" at all.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #620 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:49 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

TheSweatPantsNinja has been lynched.

He was a Townsperson.

Miztef has died.

He was a Member of the Mafia.

Cue Spooky Music
Show
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Post Post #621 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:03 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Kill, in this order:Distad
MastermindofSin
tyhess
Mr. Flay
ooba.

Scum buddy, if I die, you'll know who the last townie is, and you must kill of the last masons fast. GO.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #622 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:21 pm

Post by ooba »

Vote : Mos
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Post Post #623 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:30 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

Vote: Yosarian2
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Post Post #624 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:31 pm

Post by ooba »

If Yos has already submitted kills , he is going to die anyway - Why would you vote for him?
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