mini 1256: Marius and Sulla, over!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It sort of does. That's why I switch to wagonpushing mode at times like this.

[VitaminR]

Alright, I'm going to bite the bullet. I don't really see myself voting any other way. CES & Fenchurch, if it's you, then well-done.

Vote: Elli

[kiwieagle]

unvote plz

[kiwieagle]

HOLY SHIT ITS VITAMIN-FEN


CES UNVOTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Ellibereth]

It's Vitamin-Cogito.

[VitaminR]

Kiwi, chill. I'm pretty sure this is the right move.

(Also, get your head out of your arse. I'm sick of whatever put it in your head that I'm scum. If this is a sincerely held belief, go read any of my completed games without checking out my alignment first and see if you can call it after ten/twenty pages. I do not want us to end up losing this game because you are too lazy to familiarize yourself with my playstyle.)

[Fenchurch]

VOTE: Ellibereth

[Fenchurch]

Did I do it right?

[Fenchurch]

Actually I think that vote may have been a terrible mistake... eep.

[mykonian]

final votecount

Ellibereth (3): Cogito Ergo Sum, VitaminR, Fenchurch
Cogito Ergo Sum (1): Ellibereth

Not voting (0): kiwieagle

He was just a child. An ambitious child, a smart child, even a child who had good connections in the leading class of Rome. But although his time might have come in a few years, it was clear that Ellibereth wasn't yet ready for the rough politics that governed Rome. Such a shame. Ellibereth, Gaius Julius Ceasar,

vanilla town

was lynched day 2.

Marius 7th consulship wouldn't be as long as he had hoped. His age caught up with him, and shortly after he died of just that: his old age. Who was left in Rome couldn't muster the loyalty of enough soldiers, or show enough brilliance to stop the experienced soldiers of Sulla to march on Rome for a second time.

The mafia of CES, Lucius Cornelius Sulla and Fenchurch, Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus has won!

[Quilford]

Oh snap.

[mykonian]

One cannot say you were personal enemies for your whole life. Quite the opposite, you recognise Marius as a great general. You've seen him at work, and although you forced many decisions yourself, it cannot be denied that Marius is one of the greatest in his time. But even a great man has to know when it's time to take a step back. Sure it was a political decision that you were the one to lead the legions into the social war, and certainly, Marius might have done a job just as good as you. But that didn't mean Marius should lead. The soldiers had seen, in the social war, that you weren't worse then Marius, and it came to no surprise to anyone that the Senate chose you to face the threat of Mithridates in the east.

Not a surprise to anyone, but Marius then. He should have known he had had his time, but he chose to fight for the control of the army by political ways. It was a crude approach, and an unwise one, since such a case was unheard of. When he succeeded in his attempt get the public to take the control of the army from you and gave it to him, what else could you do but march on Rome and undo this unjustice?

Enough of the past though: the war on Mithridates is nearing it's end. Rome might be back in Marius his hands, with many of your reforms being undone, but you aren't out of the game!

You are Lucius Cornelius Sulla. You are a

mafia goon

, together with Fenchurch, Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus, also a

mafia goon

. You can discuss the nightkill here


Your fakeclaim:

You had smart been your whole life. The fact that your parents were quite wealthy meant that you could enjoy a good education and you intent to use that to the fullest. You served under Sulla, just because it's required to have military experience to become anything in the Roman politics. Current political turmoil might not be in your favor, and you might have caused Sulla to dislike you somewhat, so it's better to be careful. But on the other hand, in times of change there are opportunities, and you would be a fool not to look out for them.

You are Marcus Tullius Cicero. You are a

insert townie role here

. You win with the town when all the threats to the town have been eliminated.

Your dad had been a great supporter of the optimates and naturally Sulla. He had been rather wealthy man who made himself an important political figure and abused that. He stole, he was a politician, with all the lying that implies, and he didn't mind how he got to his goals, as long as he got there. In short, he was made to be succesful.

And then Marius came back from exile and killed your old man in the process. As soon as Sulla makes his move, you'll be on his side, with everything your dad left you. Money, but also loyal soldiers. You might be only in your twenties, but this is the time you can make it for yourself. When Sulla comes back, he'll be glad you are on his side and such support in tough times won't go unrewarded.

You are Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus. You are a

mafia goon

, together with Cogito Ergo Sum, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, also a

mafia goon

. You can discuss the nightkill here

Your fakeclaim:

It's a pleasant thing in politics to have a granddad or even older person who meant something to the Republic of Rome. You'd be remembered as the grandson of so and so who defeated that and that people. But to be the son of the man who beat the numidians, the cimbri, the teutones, and no less the man who reformed the army in such a way that it's numbers rose to healthy levels again and increased the control a commander would have on it. Your dad, Gaius Marius, was a living legend, being very popular with the plebeians. There was no other possibility then that you would be succesful as a politician.

You are Gaius Marius Minor. You are a

insert townie role here

. You win with the town when all the threats to the town have been eliminated.

A hundred years ago, your great grandfather Lucius Cornelius Scipio was the victor at the battle of Magnesia, and earned the right for his family to carry the Asiaticus, to signify his conquest. You, as a great grandson still carry this title, and although you are outshone in many ways by other generals and are probably never going to outdo the scipii of that age ago, you are playing your role in the politics of Rome. With a little luck, when the big players of the populares move away, you are the next to lead Rome. You'll make your ancestors proud, and even if you can't show the same courage and cunning on the battlefield, you can show that in the curia. You are certainly a slick enough politician for that.

You are Lucius Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus. You are a

busdriver

. Each night, you can pm me the names of two players, who will be switched the rest of the night. You win with the town when all the threats to the town have been eliminated.

You weren't the first and you wouldn't be the last succesful general to have political ambitions. As a consul, you made one a big reform to the way the soldiers for the Roman armies were recruited, making in one go the army again able to face the problems of the growing Roman republic.

And you wouldn't be the first succesfull general who would eventually be feared for his ambition by the established politics. Six consulships were a lot, but you even the whole senate can't beat Fate. As a teenager, you already recieved an omen that you would be consul a staggering seven times. They did everything to thwart that though. Sulla was their favorite apparently know, even if the people didn't agree with them. When it was proposed to the assembly, you were given control of the army Sulla lead, that should say enough.

However, Sulla used his army on Rome, an unprecedented act, made possible, ironically, by your reforms. Since the fortune of the soldiers after they had served their time depended on the ability of their general to get them land, they were very loyal and even helped Sulla do the unthinkable.

You escaped though, and as soon as Sulla marched out again, the politicians of Rome couldn't refuse you again. You were simply too popular to be refused, and this lead to your seventh consulship. This time you would be prepared for Sulla.

You are a

watcher

. At night, you can PM me a name of a player and you'll be told of any person who targets that player. You win with the town when all the threats to the town have been eliminated.

You were born in the year 100 BC, on july the 13th. Which means you were born 7 years after the marian reforms, you were 12 when Sulla moved on Rome for the first time, and you are almost an adult now. Much has changed for you. While you weren't born in a particulary influential family, you are far from devoid of ambition. And a lot has changed since Sulla went. The populares clearly show your way to power, and well, that your uncle is Gaius Marius doesn't work against you either. Unless Sulla returns, naturally, because then stuff will get dangerous. At this moment, it's probably best to listen well to the people in power and hope for a good opportunity. You are sure it will arise.

Oh, you want to know who you are?

You are Gaius Julius Ceasar. You are a

vanilla townie

. You win with the town when all the threats to the town have been eliminated.

Like Cinna could have gotten Marius in alone, when the city was still ruled by those optimates. Like he could have led that army all by himself. You were at his side when he needed you since he was so arrogant that he thought he could get that law through. Octavius wasn't in his right when he banished Cinna, but Cinna could have seen it coming. The alliance with Marius is going to make him a clear opponent to Sulla, and that is a dangerous place to be. But you'll be at his side. Sulla might have done what he did, next time you'll be prepared. Or even better, you might move against him before he comes back. There won't be another march on Rome, if you can do anything about it!

You are Gnaeus Papirius Carbo. You are a

vanilla townie

. You win with the town when all the threats to the town have been eliminated.

It's got nothing to do with luck that you became a consul. You just had talent for politics. Well, this isn't true of course, but when luck smiles at you, who cares what story you make up about it? You were a nobody, a politician, ok, but not someone with extraordinary capabilities. But this populares-optimates thing totally worked in your favor. Out of nowhere, when Marius had to disappear and Sulla made sure the optimates had most of the power, the gap in the top of the popalares was filled by you. Sulla could accept you somewhat and the base of the populares power agreed, and there you were!

Then, with Sulla gone, you didn't have to keep up the show that you supported his ideas, and it was time to propose something the populares had wanted for quite some time: to make the italians who had been promised citizenship during the social war full citizens of Rome.

And that is where your co-consul Octavius stopped you. Sure, he could have done that regularly, but in the time where Sulla had just broken all the rules by marching on Rome, Octavius decided he could break a rule too and exiled his co-consul. It was unheard of, but with the support of the optimates, he made it happen.

Well, there was little left for you then to find a corner to cry in... unless you raised an army from the italian allies which you had tried to help. Marius had much the same ideas and so you forced your way back into Rome. And there you are, again Consul, but now with Gaius Marius on your side.

You are Lucius Cornelius Cinna. You are a

vanilla townie

. You win with the town when all the threats to the town have been eliminated.

[mykonian]

There was only one night, in which Fishy drove Fenchurch and Kiwi, and where Kiwi watched CES. I think that shows a bit how this game went. From my point of view, Fenchurch played a little nervous and could have been caught. (sorry if I'm very wrong there), but CES wasn't going to get lynched, and was even considered a likely NK target by Kiwi.

When I made this setup, I liked how the roles might help each other, and I wanted to try the busdriver in a 7p for exactly the reasons given in thread by you already. It might be a power for the greater good in such a small game. However, I think this setup might be more suited for an open, because in a closed game, these two powerroles leave so many traps for a hardworking scum. If scum had lost because of them, they might have felt cheated. I think I might have been lucky that scum was doing well this game, and I hoped you had fun.

[Fenchurch]

Well that's a relief!

I had a panic after I quickhammered that there might have been an unclaimed town power role left, eg. vengeful townie; doctor; jailkeeper, in which case I should have taken more time to write a justification for the vote. Especially when I thought back to Vit's last post to kiwi, "calm down, it'll be fine", I figured that might be a sign that he had a secret plan.

If no one had laid down a vote, then today I was gonna push again on CES (based on the meta links he posted). If no one still voted, then I would've voted him, and worst-case-scenario, had to play 3p lylo with Vit and Elli. I was hoping though, that someone would do come to the conclusion which Vit did (vote Elli because he became a better fit in their PoE).

Here's our scumtopic: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/JRQDPxXwZKxi

CES: it was a pleasure being scum with you. And boy were you right about a lot of things (kiwi as Marius, Fishy would busdrive kiwi).

You posted a question in our quicktopic at the start of the game that I think I forgot to answer.

"CES: how do you feel about your role?"

What made you ask that question?

It wasn't meant to be personal, I didn't know you'd have strong feelings either way (although you're not the only one, but I'm always much happier to draw town). It was purely because you were one of the first posters in the game... on skype, I sometimes start by asking people to what their alignment is. In forums, I wanted a more verbose answer, so I went for a more open. Asking about 'role' rather than 'alignment' was an accident though; bad wording that immediately regretted.

This was probably the first game as scum that I've enjoyed more than not. I still believe that I find it harder to play scum if I have daytalk; I found it fairly easy here to imagine what I would be thinking as town, so I just went with that. Handling claims was probably the most difficult part; on Day 1, I wanted people to claim, but didn't want to look scummy for asking, hence my silly question of "is it sensible to ask for claims"? I actually just wanted to try and paint Elli as scummy for asking too soon, but didn't know how to go about it.

On Day 2, I wasn't sure how I would've viewed kiwi's claim if I was town; and I was trying to work out whether I would have guessed Sulla was a scum character. In the end I decided it was safer to just not to post about it, but I did still have some vague "theories" on the claims in case anyone asked me after #626.

[Fenchurch]

Regarding the setup: I never thought it was especially unbalanced against scum; I think it could have swung either way, but that is okay. It was enjoyable (and new, to me) playing in a closed game with great people that was a manageable size. Thanks for modding myk.

Was there a deadtopic?

Also, hi Quilford! Were you reading along, or backup modding or something? Or just saw an endgame post and decided to comment?

[Quilford]

Hi Fenchurch!

I was surprised because I was pretty confident in a CES-VitR team, up until Vitamin's last post.

[Ellibereth]

If Fence/kiwi are scum then ggg.

I probably couldn't have come up with cases on you guys knowing you were scum...
well maybe I could have but that type of case etc.
I did think fence not thinking me obvscum at beginning of day 2 was sorta wierd then I sorta decided to just bask in it

ggg guys
bleh I suck

[Ellibereth]

aka you guys were guy awesome

myko <3
Thanks for modding
pre-in your games into oblivion.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Woo!

Well played, Fenchurch.

Re: the set-up. It's probably broadly balanced, but yeah, I agree there are some unfortunate scenarios possible for the scum (e.g. watcher claims D1).

[mykonian]

or busdriver switches right N1, claims D2.

[Faraday]

fucking hell

[Faraday]

elli if you're going to sign up for games you could at least make some sort of fucking effort to contribute

[Faraday]

still no idea how anyone thought i was scum after i backed off the elli lynch, really. that was bizzare. but yeah, I thought ces/fenchurch was kinda the only thing that made sense if fishy was town and said as much to myko. oh well, fun game, annoyed at getting mislynched though.

[Faraday]

oh, good game scum in case my lasts posts came off a little annoyed ^_^

set-up is tricky, if kiwi had watched fishy it would have been a lot different, well no, scum probably still would have won but outing a pr here for scum day 1 is maybe actually sub optimal given the way the bus driver and watcher work.

[VitaminR]

Bleh.