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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:55 pm
by Albert B. Rampage
Damn I thought for sure we were going to win...one of my worst games because I had no time for it at all...sry for letting you guys down :(

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:29 pm
by mikeburnfire
at least one of Yosarian and Mathcam is scum, and miztef's eagerness to kill mathcam makes me nervous. I'll postpone my vote on him for now, not because I trust him but because I distrust Miztef.
It's a shame that I was wrong about mathcam, but at least I started to lean against the scum. If only I was better at pretending I was uninformed.

- Waldo

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:43 pm
by Mastermind of Sin
MBF, you did pretty well. It was because of your play and being a confirmed dead mason that I was able to figure out Yos2 and Miztef were scum. They practically gave themselves away once it was obvious they weren't masons with you.

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:56 pm
by Miztef
@MoS: Really? You were confident we were scum? I understand Yos2, you were suspicion of him for a great deal of time, but I didn't see much effort at all on your part to lynch me. I suppose you thought I was the least important of the mafia though, consider Flay and Yos were the other top suspects.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:00 am
by Yosarian2
Eh, MOS always thinks I'm scum; he's been convinced I was scum in the last 4 games I played with him. He had to be right sooner or later. ;)

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:48 am
by Mastermind of Sin
Yos2, I had a pretty good case for it. You DID buddy up to mathcam fairly obviously, you know. Miztef, like I said, I had distad and Ooba down as definite masons. I knew I was a townie, and then I determined that TSPN was a townie as well. That meant Miztef/Yos2/tyhess/Mr. Flay is the pool of possible scum at that point. I was fairly certain that you and Yos2 were scum, and I thought it was Mr. Flay, too, but I was distracted by his tunnel-attack on me, and I'd already gotten Cassandra'd with Yos2, so I wasn't going to try that again yet. But you're right. I didn't go after you because I didn't really think you were scum until I made up my notes. At that point I had no choice but to believe you were scum, because there was no other option when I worked out the other roles. Especially since you were trying to play up a mason connection with Yos2 and MBF had already made it clear that you two were NOT masons. That was your biggest play mistake, I think. It was smart to try and make a mason connection with Yos2, but you needed to fit it in with the other masons, too.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:51 am
by Mastermind of Sin
I might also point out that the other recent game where I thought Yos2 was scum, Ork mafia, he WAS scum. So there. It's not that I always think you're scum. You just got to be scum a lot. :P

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:30 am
by Miztef
ah, I see your logic there MoS, I'm glad my actual play didn't ping me off as scummy though, just a process of elimination. Since I had you pinned down for mason for a long time, it was hard to choose the right strategies there.

I'd tend to agree that when waldo/MFB died, it was a game changing moment that I used incorrectly.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:39 am
by Mastermind of Sin
yea. Regardless, though, one person figuring you out isn't enough. You guys won by all rights, just couldn't get organized fast enough. A couple missteps at the end did you in, but overall it seemed that most people had no idea any of you were scum. I'm surprised none of the Masons took a more aggressive approach once we were in LYLO. With 3/5 non-masons being scum, they had a huge advantage for being able to analyze the game and find scum, but they all sat back and stayed quiet or just went after the same one or two people.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:08 am
by Yosarian2
Mos: Eh, I'm pretty sure I would have acted pretty much the same way towards Mathcam if I was town; I would have defended him day 2 just as much, I think.

Then again, part of it was that I didn't really want mathcam to be lynched, because I already knew he was a townie. (He was the guy Albert targeted, btw).

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:04 pm
by Mastermind of Sin
Yea, I noticed that. I still think your actions were dictated by the knowledge you had as scum, so I don't really think there's any way to know what you would've done if you were town. I mean, I think I act pretty much the same as town and scum regardless, but everyone has their tells. Apparently I act like "scum-MoS" sometimes, but no one can ever seem to tell me what exactly that entails.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:28 pm
by Yosarian2
Eh, fair enough.

But seriously; when's the last time we played a game where you DIDN'T think I was scum? :lol:

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:32 pm
by Mastermind of Sin
when's the last time we played a game where you WEREN'T scum? :lol:

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:35 pm
by mathcam
Yosarian2 wrote:Mos: Eh, I'm pretty sure I would have acted pretty much the same way towards Mathcam if I was town; I would have defended him day 2 just as much, I think.
I think I agree. I was trying to be particularly conscious of any buddying up, and I just couldn't find anything specific that was out of the ordinary. And there wouldn't have been much gain to it anyway -- having one person on your side just wasn't going to cut it in this game.

Cam

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:46 pm
by Mastermind of Sin
I let him be on that first lynch while letting you take the fall for it, mathcam. And it also let him look better when you died and he'd been defending you. I think Yos2 stood a lot to gain from what he did, and he DID gain from it. I just didn't buy it.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:50 pm
by Yosarian2
Honestly, the only real difference is that if I was town, I probably would have defended him harder, and perhaps actually stopped him from getting lynched.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:51 pm
by Mastermind of Sin
But that alone would've made a lot of difference in the game, Yos2. That's my point. It's not any one specific thing you did that made you scum, but the combination of factors that you wouldn't all have done if you were town.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:36 am
by Mr. Flay
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm surprised none of the Masons took a more aggressive approach once we were in LYLO. With 3/5 non-masons being scum, they had a huge advantage for being able to analyze the game and find scum, but they all sat back and stayed quiet or just went after the same one or two people.
It was weirdly paralyzing being a Mason in this game, because you knew you could be dayshot at any time... even the usual standard of defending your Mason buddies/not voting them could get somebody killed.

Definitely an interesting game concept, though.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:58 am
by distad
I really didn't know how to handle the endgame, myself. I didn't really care so much about giving myself away, but I certainly didn't want to give any information about my mason brethren that would have quickly ended the game.

There was a really fine line to follow.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:08 pm
by Guardian
Pooky makezd good setup.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:23 pm
by Yosarian2
Heh. The worst part was that I think Albert actually asked me in code during day 1 if he should kill mathcam, and I totally didn't get what he was trying to say until after he was dead; I already thought mathcam was a vanillia townie at that time, too. sigh.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:17 pm
by Mastermind of Sin
Mr. Flay wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm surprised none of the Masons took a more aggressive approach once we were in LYLO. With 3/5 non-masons being scum, they had a huge advantage for being able to analyze the game and find scum, but they all sat back and stayed quiet or just went after the same one or two people.
It was weirdly paralyzing being a Mason in this game, because you knew you could be dayshot at any time... even the usual standard of defending your Mason buddies/not voting them could get somebody killed.

Definitely an interesting game concept, though.
Yea, I think I would've just thrown my mason buddies into the analysis, but made sure that they only played a peripheral role. I might "conclude" one of them was scum, but I'd make sure the three people I actually thought were scum were part of a group of four and that the mason partner was not in the top 2.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:23 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
Thanks a lot guys for being such good sports and making this game fun to mod. The finish was certainly exciting.

I had 2 goals for this game, to make a game where reading between the lines would be crucial(in terms of coding for the scum to send each other information during the day), and also to make the Mason a role where it's not just a confirmed townie and there exists much more incentive to hide your masonship status.

The town has the advantage of having a significant portion of its members being already known to each other as town but with the disadvantage that if the scum figure out which are which that they will pay dearly for it.

So the masons have to be able to lead the town to good lynches without making it too clear that they are masons, I would've certainly appreciated more of a proactive approach by the protown elements in this game, instead of the cautious approach that did bog the game down.

I imagine if I were to run this again I'd give deadline kills to scum to provide an incentive for the town to work against a clock or something along those lines.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:25 pm
by Mastermind of Sin
I think if you ran the game again you should add something to help the
town
, not the scum. It's rather obvious that the scum should've won this game, and they had a huge advantage throughout the game. Adding a deadline would only make it easier for the scum to win.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:15 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
well i'd balance the numbers to account for it.

=P