Mini 238: Destroy All Humans Mafia - Game Over!


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Post Post #700 (ISO) » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:01 pm

Post by Maximumum »

Vote Count!


davidangelsummers (2): Coolbot, d8P

Not voting: davidangelsummers, Fishbulb, MeMe, mikeburnfire, VisMaior


You guys are doing great, but if you want a deadline to help things along I can certainly entertain that idea. Still takes FOUR to lynch.
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Post Post #701 (ISO) » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:09 pm

Post by VisMaior »

Oh, come on mod, PBPAs take time, and that is a scarce resource for me. Bear with me please!
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Post Post #702 (ISO) » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:02 pm

Post by MeMe »

Vis -- you're online more than
I
am. You had 26 posts in the last 24 hours which says to me that you have plenty of time for the site.
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Post Post #703 (ISO) » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:09 pm

Post by VisMaior »

maybe so, but also, I do work instead of the pbpa most of the time. Im only trough 4 pages yet.
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Post Post #704 (ISO) » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:07 am

Post by d8P »

DAS, he did say he suspects me only because he thinks Vis is scum. Try to stir it up, eh?
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Post Post #705 (ISO) » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:07 am

Post by d8P »

trying*
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Post Post #706 (ISO) » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:42 pm

Post by VisMaior »

Ok, consider this:

Fishbulb proves that there is a mindcontroller. Tha fact that I knew about that as well, means that either Im scum, or that I was mindcontrolled like I said so.

DAS claims to have been roleblocked. Since there was a nightkill, he is either telling the truth about his claim, is the mindcontroller himself.(what proves me as a roleblocker.)

d8p confirms my role with his role. That there is a roleblocker. Noone counterclaimed me beeing roleblocker. So d8p must be either telling the truth, or be scum.

Either way Fishbulb is cleared!
Also, if DAS bites the dust and is not the mindcontroller, that clears me and d8p. If he happens to be it, that does not clear us, but also does not incriminate us.


With 3 scums my list is modified to this:

"pretty surely scum:
Coolbot
mikeburnfire

probably not scum:
davidangelsummers

innocents:
d8P
MeMe
Fishbulb
VisMaior

PBPA by 13th page.
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Post Post #707 (ISO) » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:06 am

Post by mikeburnfire »

Either way Fishbulb is cleared! Also, if DAS bites the dust and is not the mindcontroller, that clears me and d8p. If he happens to be it, that does not clear us, but also does not incriminate us.
I'm not sure how your logic works. I don't know how DAS's guilt clears you and have no idea why what you are saying even relates to Fishbulb.

And I don't like presuming that there are only two aliens. I'd prefer to assume that there are three. If we overestimate the aliens, then we get some wiggle room if we're wrong. If we underestimate, then we've pretty much thrown the game if we're wrong.
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Post Post #708 (ISO) » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:12 am

Post by VisMaior »

Well, I assumed a maximum of 3 scumplayers, as otherwise the game would end.
In hindsight I dont understand my logic either, but it seemed perfectly clear. Ill have to rethink. To my protection, I am biased because his claim supplements mine, and I know my own alignment to be protown.

If we overestimate the aliens, then we get some wiggle room if we're wrong. If we underestimate, then we've pretty much thrown the game if we're wrong.
I dont get this. If we overestimate, (as in: there are 2 but we think there are 3) we have some "wiggle room"?
If we underestimate (ads in there are 3 but we assume there are 2) And lynch wrong, we lose. If we lynch right 2 times in a row and the game is still going, we will know there is one left. I think 3 scum is pretty much standard, tough, so I live with that assumption.
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Post Post #709 (ISO) » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:25 am

Post by mikeburnfire »

If there are two scum and we mis-lynch, then we get another day because we still outnumber the scum.

It just seemed like you were trying to convince us that there are only two scum, and I don't want to jump to that conclusion.
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Post Post #710 (ISO) » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:41 am

Post by VisMaior »

Ok lets see: assuming 3 scums

MEME is proven mason, assumed protown.

Coolbot and mike are unknown.

IF d8p and myself were scum (we are tied pretty strong) and Fishbulb too, then DAS cannot be scum. He is telling the truth then, and was blocked. That in turn clears me (if we assume there is not a mafiablocker and a backup mafia blocker).

If d8p and I am not scum, then the mindcontroller thing is true. That complies pretty well with Fishbulbs claim.

Ok, so not really verified, but still.
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Post Post #711 (ISO) » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:22 pm

Post by mikeburnfire »

VisMaior wrote:IF d8p and myself were scum (we are tied pretty strong) and Fishbulb too, then DAS cannot be scum.
Yeah, having four scum would make this game already over. -_-

If Fishbulb is lying, he's doing it to protect Vis. If Fishbulb is truthful, Vis is still not proven innocent. A hypnotizer would likely exist, (let's say d8p for an example) but Vis could have claimed being hypnotized on day one to ensure his innocent if d8p is killed and reavealed to be the scum hypnotizer.

The following is speculation, but perhaps hypnotization can only be used power once, and the hypnotizer is waiting for the right time to use it. If I were him, I'd save it for this day and speedlynch somebody. Just vote, vote, vote, and hypno-vote. Bam- Gameover! The only reason I can think of for something like that not happening yet is if there is less that three mafia, or if they held onto the power for another night, not realizing how they could abuze it today.

d8p,
If DAS is lying, then Vis is lying. He would not claim to be a vigilante unless he had an alibi for his lack of results. It's not rock solid, but what kind of person would claim a power role like vigilante (who hasn't gotten to use his power yet) without any kind of proof?

I don't know why I'm explaining it to you though, as I know for myself that you are scum. If I could rally support against you then I would, but I'd settle for your scummate.
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Post Post #712 (ISO) » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:33 pm

Post by d8P »

A one shot mind control? That's not very likely, though, considering it was used day one.

That's your "proof"?
"If DAS is lying, then Vis is lying". Huh? If DAS is lying about getting blocked, you mean. Then that would mean Vis would be lying about being blocker. Well, duh. Vis must be blocker (at least from my perspective), so DAS *was* blocked. DAS is scum, though, and lying about his role, whereas Vis isn't.

"He would not claim to be vigilante unless he had an alibi for his lack of results". Nonsense. DAS claimed to be a vigilante because we caught him out. Look at the sequence of events.

1. DAS announced he was blocked.
2. Vis claimed he did it.
3. MeMe says she was not told.
4. Vis claimed he blocked her, too.
So we knew DAS had a role he couldn't perform. What other role could he claim with the doc and (standard) cops gone? A one shot vig? I don't think so - he would have had to have a very good excuse for having used the shot to retaliate for a FoS he got in twilight. So he came up with vig to avoid being suspected as mindcontrolling scum.

"What kind of a person would claim a power role like vigilante (who hasn't gotten to use his power yet) without any kind of proof?" Er...scum when cornered.

Vis blocked him and told us. DAS had to claim something repeatable that wasn't in the dead lists. He decided on vig.

Your "proof" uses speculation and argumentation from persoanl belief; how does that benefit the discussion in any way? If you're not part of the solution...
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Post Post #713 (ISO) » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:41 pm

Post by VisMaior »

Ok, my PBPA is going very very slowly. I dont think it will be ready before the new year. Sorry.
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Post Post #714 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:23 am

Post by mikeburnfire »

d8P wrote:A one shot mind control? That's not very likely, though, considering it was used day one.
Unless it *Wasn't* used day one. The theory is that Vis pretended to be mind controlled if the mind controller was killed.
"If DAS is lying, then Vis is lying". Huh? If DAS is lying about getting blocked, you mean. Then that would mean Vis would be lying about being blocker. Well, duh. Vis must be blocker (at least from my perspective), so DAS *was* blocked. DAS is scum, though, and lying about his role, whereas Vis isn't.
If Das is lying *about being Vigilante*, then Vis helped him.
"He would not claim to be vigilante unless he had an alibi for his lack of results". Nonsense. DAS claimed to be a vigilante because we caught him out. Look at the sequence of events.

1. DAS announced he was blocked.
2. Vis claimed he did it.
3. MeMe says she was not told.
4. Vis claimed he blocked her, too.
So we knew DAS had a role he couldn't perform. What other role could he claim with the doc and (standard) cops gone? A one shot vig? I don't think so - he would have had to have a very good excuse for having used the shot to retaliate for a FoS he got in twilight. So he came up with vig to avoid being suspected as mindcontrolling scum.
I don't buy that crap. Why would DAS announce he was blocked if he was scum? It doesn't make sense.
Your "proof" uses speculation and argumentation from persoanl belief; how does that benefit the discussion in any way? If you're not part of the solution...
No, my "proof" is based on the assumption that DAS isn't stupid enough to claim to be blocked and concede a power role offhandedly. Saying he would is an insult to his intelligence.

And my "proof" that you are scum comes from a logical deduction based on a chain of alliances, personal experience, knowledge exclusive to me, and common sense.
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Post Post #715 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:02 am

Post by VisMaior »

don't buy that crap. Why would DAS announce he was blocked if he was scum? It doesn't make sense
Huh? You say now that DAs is not scum? I tought your main argument against me was that "if das is lying, Vis is lying"....
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Post Post #716 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:12 am

Post by mikeburnfire »

No, no it's not. I'm inclined to believe he's being truthful. But if he was lying, it'd be him, you, and D8p as scum.
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Post Post #717 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:08 am

Post by davidangelsummers »

guys my profile is broken...I cant bold and quote and stuff...Mike, could hacvyou cant say im naive on minute and "insult" to his inelligence the next.
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Post Post #718 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:44 am

Post by d8P »

mikeburnfire wrote:If Das is lying *about being Vigilante*, then Vis helped him.
You keep repeating this but haven't backed it up at all. All Vis did was to say he was the one who blocked DAS.
mikeburnfire wrote:Why would DAS announce he was blocked if he was scum?
The morning after a kill was performed? I can only imagine you're being deliberately abstruse.

But all this is moot apparently.

DAS: Same here. You'll have to click the quote button on the appropriate post or type it out directly:
bold[/b ]
whatshisname wrote:quote[/quote ] without the spaces.
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Post Post #719 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:33 am

Post by mikeburnfire »

DAS, you trust people too easily, but you're not an idiot, which is what you'd have to be to think you could plead Vigilante as a scum when there's no proof and still live to see another day.

D8P, I don't think I can explain it any clearer. I'm not being abstruse, you're being difficult.
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Post Post #720 (ISO) » Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:13 am

Post by VisMaior »

Ok here is the gig. As I know d8p Fishbulb and MeMe to be nonscum, juat as myself, I can just begin to vote off the remaning 3. So suddenly DAS is a valid vote...
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Post Post #721 (ISO) » Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:40 am

Post by d8P »

That's my problem mike. You haven't explained it at all. You asserted it as a possibility, which is valid, then took it as a given, which isn't. You went from "Vis and DAS could be lying to mutually confirm each other's roles", to "I have proved that Vis And DAS are lying".
mikeburnfire wrote:
"He would not claim to be vigilante unless he had an alibi for his lack of results". Nonsense. DAS claimed to be a vigilante because we caught him out. Look at the sequence of events.

1. DAS announced he was blocked.
2. Vis claimed he did it.
3. MeMe says she was not told.
4. Vis claimed he blocked her, too.
So we knew DAS had a role he couldn't perform. What other role could he claim with the doc and (standard) cops gone? A one shot vig? I don't think so - he would have had to have a very good excuse for having used the shot to retaliate for a FoS he got in twilight. So he came up with vig to avoid being suspected as mindcontrolling scum.
I don't buy that crap. Why would DAS announce he was blocked if he was scum? It doesn't make sense.
I've already challenged this. DAS announced he was blocked after there was a kill, the implication being, no doubt, that he wasn't involved.
mikeburnfire wrote:
Your "proof" uses speculation and argumentation from persoanl belief; how does that benefit the discussion in any way? If you're not part of the solution...
No, my "proof" is based on the assumption that DAS isn't stupid enough to claim to be blocked and concede a power role offhandedly. Saying he would is an insult to his intelligence.

And my "proof" that you are scum comes from a logical deduction based on a chain of alliances, personal experience, knowledge exclusive to me, and common sense.
No you made an assumption, took it as a conclusion and continue to ignore the fallacies on which it is based. Not only that but you've repeatedly tried to misrepresent the arguments against it. You've also implied that DAS would have to be stupid to be scum and play as he has and have twisted this around to mean I'm suggesting it. I am not.
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Post Post #722 (ISO) » Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:55 am

Post by mikeburnfire »

Your application of prodigious terminology has befuddled me.
DAS announced he was blocked after there was a kill, the implication being, no doubt, that he wasn't involved.
Maybe he genuinely wasn't.
You've also implied that DAS would have to be stupid to be scum and play as he has and have twisted this around to mean I'm suggesting it. I am not.
But certainly you must agree that a scum would be stupid to claim vigilante with no proof.
You went from "Vis and DAS could be lying to mutually confirm each other's roles", to "I have proved that Vis And DAS are lying".
I have *not* proven that Vis and DAS are lying. I have proven that YOU are lying and I suspect Vis to be your accomplis.

This is what I pressume:
MeMe is innocent
There is a roleblocker
There is a mind-controller
If Vis is scum, d8p is scum, because d8p's claim only works if Vis's claim works.

This is what I conclude:
If DAS is lying and is in fact NOT a vigilante, then he conspired with Vis to make his claim work.
If Fishbulb is lying and is in fact NOT the backup doc, then he's trying to protect Vis when he said that his role implied a brainwasher.
THEREFORE, if either DAS or Fishbulb is lying, Vis and d8p are their accomplises.

Combinations left for me to believe:
DAS-Vis-d8p
Fishbulb-Vis-D8p
Coolbot-Vis-D8p
Coolbot-Fishbulb-D8p

That's my logic, and that's why I'll vote for you when the time comes.
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Post Post #723 (ISO) » Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:21 am

Post by CoolBot »

mikeburnfire wrote:But certainly you must agree that a scum would be stupid to claim vigilante with no proof.
What do you mean by this? Vig is a good claim for scum since both roles kill.

I think Vis's PBPA is simply a delaying tatic he's using in the hope that attention will move elsewhere. It's already been nearly a week since he first mentioned he was doing one, and now he says it's going to be two more weeks before he has a chance to do it.
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Post Post #724 (ISO) » Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:29 am

Post by VisMaior »

This is what I pressume:
MeMe is innocent
There is a roleblocker
There is a mind-controller
If Vis is scum, d8p is scum, because d8p's claim only works if Vis's claim works.
You clearly dismiss the possibility, that if d8p is not scum, im not scum as well. Why? Because that would leave you as scum. What you are, I believe. My role is the easyest to prove while killing me could lead to scum winning. You are trying very hard to frame me. I have no choice but to
vote mikeburnfire
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