Mini 409: Amazing Race Mafia! Who won the million dollars?


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Post Post #700 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 8:04 am

Post by The Central Scrutinizer »

Well, tbh, we could go your route too.

Sorry, you're right... if Atticus is kill-immune then you've got a point. I forgot about that possibility.
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Post Post #701 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 9:37 am

Post by Atticus »

Can I kill the SK now?
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Post Post #702 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 9:49 am

Post by Atticus »

And Patrick, your fern didn't do this, did it?
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Post Post #703 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 10:04 am

Post by Fuldu »

Patrick wrote:Your plan actually makes it harder for us to control who is daykilled, since we don't know which daykiller will succeed. My suggestion allows us to kill who we want, and still lets us figure out who out of Atticus/Mari is lying. At least, I think it does. Explain what advantage you think your way has.
If your plan is to have Mari try to kill one person and then, if that fails, have Atticus try to kill the same person, then no, I don't think that plan allows us to figure out who is lying. Assume Mari sends in her kill and nothing happens. How long do we wait? If, after we tell Atticus to send his kill on the same person, that person ends up dead, how does that let us figure out which was telling the truth? Maybe Mari is lying, but maybe it really does take several days to get the choices processed. The Battle Mage kill took long enough that several people had pretty much decided Atticus was lying about his role.

In my opinion, in order to verify which of them is lying, we need to have them target different players, so we've already lost the ability to both identify the liar and choose the daykill. And if they're going to do that, and if only one of the kills is going to go through, then there's no reason I can see to do them sequentially instead of at the same time.
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Post Post #704 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 10:35 am

Post by Patrick »

Atticus wrote:And Patrick, your fern didn't do this, did it?
Nope.
Fuldu wrote:If your plan is to have Mari try to kill one person and then, if that fails, have Atticus try to kill the same person, then no, I don't think that plan allows us to figure out who is lying. Assume Mari sends in her kill and nothing happens. How long do we wait? If, after we tell Atticus to send his kill on the same person, that person ends up dead, how does that let us figure out which was telling the truth? Maybe Mari is lying, but maybe it really does take several days to get the choices processed. The Battle Mage kill took long enough that several people had pretty much decided Atticus was lying about his role.
You jest. We're not deadlined. I have no problem asking Mari to kill and then waiting a few days if need be. It's not like we have nothing to talk about. And I think the Battle Mage kill only took a few hours, though I can't remember exactly when he claimed to send the kill in. It didn't take very long. You seem to be trying to reduce our control on who gets daykilled, and that's not a good sign.

Vote: Mari kills Fuldu.
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Post Post #705 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 11:48 am

Post by rajrhcpfreak »

why arn't we asking mari to vig TCS.

i still think he is less likely to be here flavor wise. and i would hate to be gambling on a night doc when our day doc just died.
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Post Post #706 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 11:55 am

Post by Patrick »

The confirmation of a day doc makes me skeptical that we would have a second doc in the game.
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Post Post #707 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 11:58 am

Post by Atticus »

Patrick wrote:Tracker
Inventor
Dayvig
Day doc
Night doc
3 townies

1 day SK (kill protected?)
3 mafia

It creates a nice kind of symetry with the docs but is it a plausible setup? Seems fairly strong for the town. Hmm.
You say this, but... You also say that you are skeptical and want to kill Fuldu?
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Post Post #708 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 11:59 am

Post by Patrick »

Umm. I said in that post that I was skeptical that we would have 2 docs because the town seems too powerful.
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Post Post #709 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 12:00 pm

Post by Atticus »

Fuldu wrote: If your plan is to have Mari try to kill one person and then, if that fails, have Atticus try to kill the same person, then no, I don't think that plan allows us to figure out who is lying. Assume Mari sends in her kill and nothing happens. How long do we wait? If, after we tell Atticus to send his kill on the same person, that person ends up dead, how does that let us figure out which was telling the truth? Maybe Mari is lying, but maybe it really does take several days to get the choices processed. The Battle Mage kill took long enough that several people had pretty much decided Atticus was lying about his role.
And I know that mine happens within twelve hours, and Mari has claimed that hers takes place in the same amount of time. (that lying scum.)
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Post Post #710 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 12:02 pm

Post by Atticus »

Dangit, simulposting because I missed Patrick's post.

Anyway, Pat, I didn't realise that that was why you were skeptical.
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Post Post #711 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 12:04 pm

Post by Patrick »

It's part of it, but it's also stuff I described in that long post, and his last few posts don't make me feel any better about him.
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Post Post #712 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2007 2:59 pm

Post by Fuldu »

I'll concede the point regarding scheduling the kills, Patrick. I looked back at the actual timeline for the BM kill and, even though it spans about 4 pages of posts, it only covers about 50 minutes of time. I had remembered it being longer.

I still don't buy this argument that because there's a day doc, there must not be a night doc. We're talking about a game that, unless Mariyta is lying, has two day killers, as well as the standard scum night kill. Having two different docs in that context doesn't seem out of place to me. Patrick keeps talking about how his additional protections make it unbalanced, but, unless I've misunderstood what he's said about the mechanism, he has to use all four of his Ferns before he can repeat. In a game this size, that pretty much means that he isn't going to get to repeat.

So you're saying that, as tools to use against the night killers, this town had a tracker and a one-shot doc (plus whatever else Patrick has at his disposal, again, essentially one shot). Framed as two docs, it might seem unbalanced. Framed as a mafia-protection doc and a SK-protection doc, I think it sounds about right. In a more standard game, there would only be one doc, but he could protect against kills by both scum parties. Here, HH and I are each something closer to half-docs, because we can each only affect one of two existing types of kills.

I would also point out that a) I started the bandwagon on Dean; and b) I still think that it's most probable that BM's result was on me. It's unfortunate that BM described his role in a non-standard way, but "Guy who can find out whether a player has a night action" isn't a tracker, it's some other kind of investigator. A tracker is "Guy who finds out who a player targeted." That's what tracking means - you see where somebody went, not just whether they left their house.

I guess at this point, I don't really care which of TCS and rajr we have Mariyta kill, because from my standpoint, the odds are in favor of both of them being scum. But with HH's death, I think we need to give some consideration to tomorrow's plan, as well. Like I said before, going into night with Patrick, Atticus, Mariyta, and one scum, doesn't go well for the town. There are a lot of different possible outcomes, depending on who the scum kills, but my initial analysis says it isn't good odds.
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Post Post #713 (ISO) » Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 am

Post by Patrick »

Shoot, now I'm worried again.

Fuldu, explain why you didn't give HackerHuck the time of day even when he claimed day doctor. He was firmly at the top of your list. Did you not think at the time that two docs might exist, as you're explaining now?

Why is raj pushing for a TCS kill instead of a Fuldu kill if he is scum with TCS? That makes little sense to me, but then again raj doesn't seemed to have twigged that if he is town the mafia basically has to be Fuldu/TCS anyway.
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Post Post #714 (ISO) » Mon May 07, 2007 12:39 am

Post by Patrick »

Also, going into night with (Patrick, Mari, Atticus +1 mafia), the mafia member must absolutely no kill. If he kills a protown player, he leaves himself to be taken out by the day SK and loses. If he kills the day SK, town will lynch him. No kill is the only way in that scenario. I give this advice only because it helps the town, but I think it's clear that it makes sense.
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Post Post #715 (ISO) » Mon May 07, 2007 12:50 am

Post by Mariyta »

Patrick wrote:Also, going into night with (Patrick, Mari, Atticus +1 mafia), the mafia member must absolutely no kill. If he kills a protown player, he leaves himself to be taken out by the day SK and loses. If he kills the day SK, town will lynch him. No kill is the only way in that scenario. I give this advice only because it helps the town, but I think it's clear that it makes sense.
And then either Atticus or I take him out (I personally believe your role, and I get the feeling Atticus does too). That just leaves the SK... If we have him take out the mafia (and he might not), I could just take him out....


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Post Post #716 (ISO) » Mon May 07, 2007 12:58 am

Post by Patrick »

Mari wrote:And then either Atticus or I take him out (I personally believe your role, and I get the feeling Atticus does too). That just leaves the SK... If we have him take out the mafia (and he might not), I could just take him out....
If we reach day like that, we don't want the vig shooting the mafiaoso, because then the SK just shoots someone and wins. And the SK won't just shoot the mafioso to help us.
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Post Post #717 (ISO) » Mon May 07, 2007 8:19 am

Post by pablito »

I'm putting a tentative deadline for 12 days from now. That'll take us to the 19th of May.
Sup, later.
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Post Post #718 (ISO) » Mon May 07, 2007 12:16 pm

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We must decide quickly who Mari and I should kill, and when Mariyta's kill doesn't go through, we need to lynch her. Also, I am not able to kill many people at the moment. The thing I need to do to them has not been achieved for many people.
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Post Post #719 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2007 12:21 pm

Post by Fuldu »

Patrick wrote:Also, going into night with (Patrick, Mari, Atticus +1 mafia), the mafia member must absolutely no kill. If he kills a protown player, he leaves himself to be taken out by the day SK and loses. If he kills the day SK, town will lynch him. No kill is the only way in that scenario. I give this advice only because it helps the town, but I think it's clear that it makes sense.
I come to a different conclusion, except that I'd prefer not to tell mafia what I think they should do under these circumstances, because it doesn't help the town. Suffice it to say that I think you should rethink your reasoning.

In response to your other question, my feelings toward HackerHuck were not as a result of his claim. I had found his behavior suspicious up to that point, and while his claim was certainly plausible, it did not make up for his other behaviors to that point.
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Post Post #720 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2007 12:32 pm

Post by Patrick »

Fuldu wrote:I come to a different conclusion, except that I'd prefer not to tell mafia what I think they should do under these circumstances, because it doesn't help the town. Suffice it to say that I think you should rethink your reasoning.
If you are protown, I'm very puzzled as to why you would say this. Hmm.
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Post Post #721 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2007 2:26 pm

Post by Fuldu »

Because you seem to think that {Patrick, Mari, Atticus, mafia} isn't worth being concerned about, and I disagree with you. I'm trying to walk an incredibly fine line between not wanting to help scum and not wanting your misjudgment of the situation to make things worse for the town.
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Post Post #722 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2007 4:56 pm

Post by rajrhcpfreak »

quicker mari and atticus are dead i think the better the town will be.

have mari target TCS. if she cant finish it then have atticus target her or TCS.

i really have a problem with people attacking our night doc.

im looking at the kills, is there an SK? could there be 4 mafia. one of them having the power to kill during the day.

with 4 mafia one able to kill during the day would explain why the town needs a day and a night doc. and it wouldnt be too powerful.
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Post Post #723 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2007 8:04 pm

Post by The Central Scrutinizer »

Please kill raj and not me. That is all.
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Post Post #724 (ISO) » Wed May 09, 2007 1:17 am

Post by Patrick »

Fuldu wrote:Because you seem to think that {Patrick, Mari, Atticus, mafia} isn't worth being concerned about, and I disagree with you.
Hell no, nothing of the sort. If that didn't concern me then I would hardly care what we did now, since that is our worst scenario coming out of the day. Since I'm trying to figure out who the two mafia are, you can assume I'm trying to avoid this in favour of killing both mafia today.

Raj, you seem to be al over the place.
Raj wrote: really have a problem with people attacking our night doc.

im looking at the kills, is there an SK? could there be 4 mafia. one of them having the power to kill during the day.

with 4 mafia one able to kill during the day would explain why the town needs a day and a night doc. and it wouldnt be too powerful.

You don't get it. If you are a townie, then Fuldu and TCS are mafia and there is no night doc. Mafia who can kill during the day? Come on. Oh and mafia who can stop lynches? I'm puzzled as to why on earth you are going out of your way to defend Fuldu here. If you happen to be protown you need a slap after this game.

To get things going, i'll vote: Mari kills TCS. I know the other two support that, and TCS has been scummy to me all game.
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