Mafiascum.net

why doesn't dr who target everyone and play nightless

In post 726, RadiantCowbells wrote:why doesn't dr who target everyone and play nightless

Because that's boring and town maybe would just lose?
I guess we could limit dr who to only half the players

3 person townblock outside of dr who means game win on d1 though

How would you fix it?

As is it seems like there would be a pretty easy investigative loop, even discounting just being nightless.

Maybe put in a way to have scum stop coordinated actions? Something like if they guess all of a player's targets, that player doesn't act? probs not that, cause that seems like a nightmare for the scumteam, but :shrug:

I'm just thinking that if scumteam knows who the No Moving Cops are targetting, they can target those players resulting in that player's death and then the cop is useless

So you have a whole bunch of no moving cops, right? They all target the player beneath them. Best case scenario, Dr who is above one of the scum, and then the scum kill one cop, three of the cops die due to targeting players that targeted or were targeted, that's four deaths, after a mislynch on n1, which results in a scum win

That's if DR who doesn't target anyone. Dr who targets the wrong person, gives off a false positive and kills a cop in the process. I don't see any strategies that prevent chaos

You almost don't even need Dr Who.

A>B
C>D
E>F
G>H

Doc claims N1.

Scum can't kill inside one of the pairs containing scum, so either they kill Conftown or they kill 2 town. If the scum who kills is in the targetee column, they're confscummed and a townie dies. If they're not they get to fake a result. So after night 1 it's 5p LYLO or 6 P MYLO with 2-3 cop results or faked cop results. Hm.

In post 735, Jingle wrote:A>B
C>D
E>F
G>H

Doc claims N1.

Scum can't kill inside one of the pairs containing scum, so either they kill Conftown or they kill 2 town. If the scum who kills is in the targetee column, they're confscummed and a townie dies. If they're not they get to fake a result. So after night 1 it's 5p LYLO or 6 P MYLO with 2-3 cop results or faked cop results. Hm.

Counterpoint: Scum counter-claims the Dr.

Actually, Doctor Who being non targeting is interesting, and I don't think it hurts the setup.

Can scum win after a D1 scum lynch though?

Actually counter-claiming is risky and dumb. I don't think they're confscummed in any scenario, they just conftown the player they were supposed to target, unless I'm not understanding fully

Jingle wrote:Actually, Doctor Who being non targeting is interesting, and I don't think it hurts the setup.

Can scum win after a D1 scum lynch though?

Ouch. I doubt it.

I'm really not all the way awake right now or else I'd work through the math on it, but it would be very hard for solo scum to win, I think, as long as town coordinates. If town doesn't coordinate then chaos. Maybe one of the mafia members could be a scrambler (he swaps the targets of two players)

although something i didn't think about is that mafia can just choose to not target anyone

You have a 50/50 of a 1v1 for the player who doesn't kill, unless both scum are paired.
You have a 50/50 of the scum killing killing an extra townie unless both scum are paired, but that makes the killing scum confscum.

Hm... maybe copstart? That way the cops have to choose to target or not without coordination on N0.

In post 741, Jingle wrote:You have a 50/50 of a 1v1 for the player who doesn't kill, unless both scum are paired.
You have a 50/50 of the scum killing killing an extra townie unless both scum are paired, but that makes the killing scum confscum.

Hm... maybe copstart? That way the cops have to choose to target or not without coordination on N0.

Killing scum isn't confscum, unless I misunderstand. It clears the two targetees as town, but the other cop and the scum have to 1v1. (in a 4p scenario)

No one in their right mind would investigate on N0... I guess if maybe there was a kill on N0?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, do the cops get town/scum when they successfully target?

Also, if the person targeting a player dies along with two others, it means that player acted. Which means they would be scum.

In post 743, Jingle wrote:Maybe I'm misunderstanding, do the cops get town/scum when they successfully target?

Also, if the person targeting a player dies along with two others, it means that player acted. Which means they would be scum.

No, they just die or don't die, and that's the result.

Oh. Then it's probably not as unwinnable for scum if there's a scum lynch then.

As yet unnamed jester night less variant:

3 Jester
2 mafia
4 town

Game ends when all members of a faction have been lynched, or # mafia >= # town.

Maf win if they have parity with the townies (discounting jesters).
Town win if all mafia are dead.
Jester win individually if they’re dead at endgame.

AFAICT, town have no incentive not to lynch the jesters, and nor do the Mafia. So why don't the jesters just claim and allow town to lynch them?

Also, the town/mafia balance is off, it's scumsided at 4:2 nightless.

Lynching 3 Jesters ends the game without hitting a mafia or town wincon, so if the Jesters claim one of them is guaranteed to lose. If only one Jester claims, the players just refuse to lynch that one player, and either town or mafia is guaranteed a win. If two Jesters claim, the other players can offer one of the two a win, but then the other is guaranteed to lose.

Definitely not worried about lynching Jesters.

Do you happen to have the 4:2 numbers available? I'm willing to bet the additional information from the Jesters helps town a little bit. Additionally, since it's a meme-harder variant of a meme setup, I'm willing to deal with a bit of imbalance in order to have a larger Jester percentage.

Looked it up. According to an old Nightless EV formula from mith, 4:2 is 33% town EV. That's a really harsh winrate (especially if you take into account the chance of Only Jesters Win reducing that) but I think the additional length and the townsiding nature of nightless should help. Personally I think it's close enough to still be enjoyable, but if anyone can come up with a way to boost Town EV compared to scum w/out fucking with the Jester portion of the setup, I'd be interested.