Mini 126: Mini-Town Mafia Game over!

[Flying Dutchman]

OK, I got a reply. I live in building 12.

Jadesmar, I was angry, and with good reason I think, it's already irritating that I don't get all info I should get (I don't blame the mod, I have done the same.....), but that I get a FOS for requesting all info I should have......

[Quailman]

unFOS: FD

Okay, so now what? Sinister Overlord is gone until the weekend, and Adder has asked to be replaced. I don't think I see anything yet to base a non-random vote on. I'll wait for Adder's replacement, then vote for him.

[Phoebus]

Why are we waiting around?
What happened to the group of three who got out the subway and one of which was in the park?
I was waiting on thoughts/comments on that particular aspect and it never happened.
Personally, I would vote for the hobo.

[Recky]

I agree with Phoebus - let's get this show on the road.

Vote Spork

[Dementia Blader]

Group of 3 is mafia, eh? How are you so sure? There could be other groups in the town.

Fos Phoebus, but vote Recky

Phoebus gave reasoning, flawed as it may be, but Recky simply hopped on the bandwagon without giving any other reasons than that he agrees with Phoebus.

[Recky]

You seem a little overly defensive there, DB...

[Quailman]

Would it be that easy that the mafia all go together at night? I guess there's safety in numbers, but not if you're seen together.

[Dementia Blader]

I'm thinking if anything, it's a cult or mason group. I could see some sort of abductors thing, but that's not very likely. May even be 3 random people's path's happened to intersect their. The point that I'm trying to make is, voting spork with no reason other than this toes the line between reasoning & craplogic.

[mole]

Something I just thought of--do the mafia know where everyone lives? I mean, did they just send "kill Electra" to the mod to make the kill, or "I go and kill whoever lives at number 15"?

I think it's the latter, which makes the "group of three" thing more likely to be accurate. The mafia have to meet somewhere, and they choose the subway since nobody would ever think of looking there. Then they all go to building 15 and make the kill.

[Phoebus]

Phoebus gave reasoning, flawed as it may be,

I gave reasoning, and now it's flawed? Why wasn't it flawed earlier? You've had ample time to call it that before Reck voted. Why jump on Recky all of a sudden, for one vote?

From what you've said, it's either mafia, or mason or cult. Mafia or cult, I don't want.

Masons - 3 masons in a 12 player game, I find hard to believe. If there were indeed such a large amount of masons, I doubt they'd be wandering about subways and parks at night. I think the cosiness of someone's home sounds more right. Infact, with such an unusually large number in a mini, if there *are* indeed three masons around, I suggest one claim and put speculation to rest. They'll probably be killed tonight but we still have two people who can vouch for each other. This, I however do not see happening because I don't believe there are so many masons.

Cult - for a cult to reach a number of three in one night, they'd have to start out with two members, which again, is too many for a mini game. This one might have some spiffy mechanics but I doubt the basic numbers have been meddled around with much. All evidence till date shows no major power roles to counteract such strong scum. So...

Mafia - Well, let's see now. Regular complement of scum in a mini - THREE! *ding ding ding ding*
So unless I'm proved otherwise, either by masons or an incredibly powerful cult, I shall remain unconvinced. Sorry.

Also, I gave you my night wandering results and you FoS me? What's there to FoS about? I suggested that we look into the park matter when I first shared these but you lurked. Now that I've brought it up again and Reck voted for spork, I suspect you've immediately jumped on him in an effort to set up an "I-told-you-so" moment later when spork turns out to not be scum. Why? Because your current actions suggest you are scum.

Vote: Dementia Blader

BTW...Mr. Mod, any headway on getting Adder replaced?

[Dementia Blader]

Hmm....what about the other two possibilities I brought up, eh? 2 abductors +1 hostage, 3 random people, 2 masons + 1 random person, 2 cultists + random person....once again, very close to craplogic, which is the reason I gave for fosing you. In this kind of game, making assumptions can be fatal.

[mole]

Vote: Dementia Blader

I really think Phoebus is onto something here. You seem way too unwilling to accept that the group of three being mafia is by far the most likely scenario. Do we need to exhaust

every

possible alternate explanation, no matter how ridiculous, before proceeding?

[Phoebus]

I can't say in polite company, what part of your anatomy, you're pulling this out of, DB...

Hmm....what about the other two possibilities I brought up, eh?

Eh?

2 abductors +1 hostage,

That either makes you abductor or hostage. I don't see a hostage roaming about town freely, after being kidnapped. Incase you escaped, what are you waiting for, to squeal on your attackers? An engraved invitation?
And the 'abduction' mechanic used in previous games disallowed the victim to talk the next day or till he was rescued.
That makes you an abductor. Die scum die!

3 random people

I was specifically told that it was a (pay attention now!)

group

of three people.
The very definition of a group implies a collection of two or more individuals who get together to fulfill some common purpose.
Random people? Ha!

masons + 1 random person

Uh? Masons hobnobbing with random people...wha?

2 cultists + random person

Again...wha? Plus, you're going back to the numbers game. Look alive!

once again, very close to craplogic,

Who is it, that you are insinuating, is spewing crap logic?
I'll give you a hint. It ain't me!

n this kind of game, making assumptions can be fatal.

Is that a threat? or a random statement?
Random statements, and stupid ones to boot, are even more fatal and not only in "this kind of game" but in any game.

I would've given you credit for trying to weigh out different scenarios but your reaction to Reck's vote was downright weird and all these possibilities you keep throwing at us, are just too far out. And please don't tell me that "the truth is out there."

In conclusion: Mob justice rulz! Die scum die!

[Quailman]

It would make the town's job way too easy if the mafia traveled in packs.

The government, shocked by this sudden unfortunate event, has become, well, a bit paranoid.

1. There are maximum occupancy rates of 2 at all buildings, places, and intersections of the town, in an attempt to minimize collaboration of the mafia. Anyone caught will be suspended the next night.
(in other words, only 2 people may stay at one place at the same time, so if 4 people each pass by an intersection at the same time, no one will be punished)

2. Despite the paranoia and occupancy rate laws, you are still allowed to visit any marked place on the map, and engage in any of the activities that are allowed there, although you may only take part in activities in one place each night*. What will happen there**? Have fun exploring!

I'm not sure what would happen if we all chose to visit the same place one night, but it sounds like the bad guys would not only be able to split up, but they'd be required to. I don't blame Dementia Blader for FOSing anyone who insists on the 3=mafia theory to the exclusion of all others. I know I'm allowed to go where I want each night. I should think that the bad guys would want to split up and try to blend in.

I also think that they know they weren't together last night and are trying to champion the 3=mafia theory. I doubt that all of you who are going along with it are mafia. They either get it going or go along with it to give it momentum, but I guess I'm on the same side of this issue as DB.

If we really want to test the theory, then DB or spork are the logical candidates, but if innocent, we have no way of knowing that the person we lynched was at the subway. We have to lynch the other one tomorrow, and even then we're not sure. I think the bad guys have thought this out and are all for it. I really don't think it's any better than a random lynch.

When I read through the recent posts, it is clear that Phoebus has given it some thought - it was he who saw the three people - but Recky and mole are way too anxious to go along with the idea that the mafia wouldn't split up. They probably don't even live near each other - that would make it easy to find them too - so they wouldn't necessarily be able to travel together.

FOS: Recky and Mole

What happened to the group of three who got out the subway and one of which was in the park?
I was waiting on thoughts/comments on that particular aspect and it never happened.

There's my two cents. Sorry I got distracted by FD.

[Phoebus]

I'm ready to listen to reason.
It might be easy for the town but again, for me, "group" implies collaboration. Who else would travel in "packs"?

[Quailman]

Oh, man, while it wasn't exactly a simulppost, it took me a while to type that. I guess I've already addressed the issue of the mafia traveiling in a group by quoting the mod. Crap Logic is a little strong for Phoebus' theory. I don't have anything better, but I just don't think the bad guys are going to travel in threes.

[Quailman]

I noticed the term 'group'. The Cartalk Puzzler last week involved the fact that there are three escalators in London underground stations and invariably two go up while one goes down. The reason was that the people arrive to catch the train at any old time, but when the train comes, all the people exit at once. Perhaps that's an explanation, perhaps not.

[Dementia Blader]

Uhhh...I am really confused now that I read the occupancy quote. Since nothing happened about that in terms of punishment, the people couldn't have actually met their-it would just be a point on there route to wherever. But 3 people all moving together seems a bit odd. Any group meeting would, most likely come from a number of different routes, not just 1, making this very odd. Speaking of which, this conundrum could be solved simply by having cops, trackers, et al hang around the subway tonight and seem if the group of 3 pulls an encore.

[Phoebus]

They were not occupying any building, just came out of the subway. Later, only one of them was in the park (presumably with the hobo, who seems to live there) leaving the other 2 to safely be together in whichever building.

[Flying Dutchman]

They were not occupying any building, just came out of the subway. Later, only one of them was in the park (presumably with the hobo, who seems to live there) leaving the other 2 to safely be together in whichever building.

If I get everything correctly there was scum seen in the park and the hobo is the only person who lives there. Can we get a more detailed statement about his night actions?

[Phoebus]

the hobo saw Dementia Blader in the park as well.
And possible scum. yes.

[Yggdrasil]

I'm sort of with Quailman on this issue. There's too much "wrong" with Phoebus' story to convice me that either Spork or DB must be scum. Why would the mafia travel as a group? Why would the mod give such blatant evidence to a player? How can Phoebus be sure of what he saw (remember, this occured during

night

)? Did someone else pass through the park?

It's possible that Phoebus is pulling a quasi-Lepton's gambit. As Quailman pointed out, disproving his statement would require lynching two innocents if Phoebus is lying.

Normally, I would suggest lynching Phoebus in order to test the validity of his statement (it would cost only one lynch to prove or disprove his statement), but Phoebus is unlynchable. Perhaps we should just lynch DB, since I don't think we'll be in a good position to act on the info if we wait until tomorrow.

I'll wait for a vote count before I vote, and see if I think of anything better.

[mole]

Not only is Phoebus unable to be lynched, he's also the only one who definitely did not take part in Electra's murder. If the mafia has to play by the same rules as the rest of us, he can't have visited the church and killed someone in the same night.

[Recky]

If I get everything correctly there was scum seen in the park and the hobo is the only person who lives there. Can we get a more detailed statement about his night actions?

If I've understood correctly, we do not yet know that it was scum in the park. The information we have is that there was a group of 3 people seen around Electra's house, and that one of those people was later seen in the park.

It seems to me as if this is one of the few leads we've got at the moment, so I'm interested to see those who are speaking up most vociferously against it. Quailman and Ygg - please remind me what you did last night?

[Yggdrasil]

Not only is Phoebus unable to be lynched, he's also the only one who definitely did not take part in Electra's murder. If the mafia has to play by the same rules as the rest of us, he can't have visited the church and killed someone in the same night.

This is assuming that all three mafia kill together. In many games, the mafia choose one member to make the kill. I dont' think we have enough information yet to conclude that Phoebus is town based on the fact that he visited the church.

Quailman and Ygg - please remind me what you did last night?

I can't remind you of it because I never told you -- and for a good reason too. The mafia stands more to gain than the town from learning of players' night actions.