Mini 821 - A Death in the Family - Game Over


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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:06 am

Post by Francis »

me wrote:What I'm seeing here is Santos posting for the sake of posting.
To clarify, Santos is not trying to catch scum. His posts are supposed to make it look like he is.
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:11 am

Post by Francis »

Juls, can you tell us what you voted arelian for?
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:34 am

Post by Juls »

RE: Flava - to be honest, I was skeptical of his claim and I guess I still am to some extent but right now arelian and santos have raised high on my list. I am keeping flava in the back of my head but Arelian/Santos are most scummy at this point to me. Arelian I explain in a second, Santos because he is active lurking.

RE: arelian - arelian's play is a bit odd to me. The reason I voted him is because I want him to explain why he saw a lynch forming on Raivann, agreed that Raivann/Santos needed some pressure and then voted Santos who had no votes on him. I would think if you wanted to put some pressure on someone Raivann would have been the choice. One vote isn't going to pressure Santos into anything. Also, anyone on that Zilla wagon deserves a thorough eye.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:17 am

Post by arelian »

To answer your question, Juls, I voted Santos for two reasons:

1. Raivann was already at L-2, I didn't want to risk putting him at L-1 and allowing another possible quickhammer.

2. Santos needs votes more than Raivann at this point. I thought that maybe someone could back me up. Raivann seems to have started talking again, which is good. Santos still hasn't provided us with anything terribly useful.

Also, I don't really see the connection between Raivann/me. Can you guys clarify it a little more? Is it just because I wanted to vote for Santos over Raivann?

I've been thinking of the chance the two scum met each other last night, and this is what I've come up with so far. Unlike other games, in which scum generally target the most pro-town players at night, here the scum will be trying to target the scummiest players in hopes that they will find their partner.

Also, we know that at least one of the scum last night targeted hero, who was almost certainly not on their list of four confirmed townies. We can't know for sure if Zilla was on their list of confirmed or not.

So, at least one targetted hero, meaning at least one didn't meet up with the other. The other scum, if zilla was on their list, had a choice of four players. If Zilla wasn't, they had a choice of three. So there's a 25-33% chance that the second scum targeted their partner, and they met up.

Not very good odds, but still possible.
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:04 am

Post by Santos »

I think its hilarious that my meta is considered 'great' as playing as town. Francis must be delusional because its always gotten me lynched. So I figured, why not try something else this round instead of getting my neck in a noose on Day 1. (and I'm still considering it Day 1 because of what happened yesterday)

As far as arelian's vote, its whatever. Its nothing substantial that I'm going to come back at him and say you're wrong because he could very well be right. How is anyone supposed to know? I've ignored it because it seems like several people are trying to ignore the situation at hand and say 'OMG SANTOS IS HERE BUT NOT POSTING OMG' Get over it. I'm trying something new in this game instead of being a 'shoot first, ask questions later type of townie'.

Seriously, I'm watching and you guys have a decent case on some people. Spastically shooting in another direction is downgrading some people's credibility as town - or else you're just a bunch of spastic townies :/

Why not go with the Raivann lynch? Why not lynch arelian? The conclusions drawn that they are a scum pair are actually pretty genuine and would be worth proving or disproving. However, do to Day 1's episode, we're all seriously at a terrible risk if we don't hit scum today.
arelian wrote:Also, I don't really see the connection between Raivann/me. Can you guys clarify it a little more? Is it just because I wanted to vote for Santos over Raivann?
I think its just because you're reaching somewhere else easy (like myself) at the mention of your partner about to swing at the rope. You should have bussed him today and done something more clever.
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:10 am

Post by Santos »

Oh, and in my sleepy stupor last night before going to bed after getting off work, I missed Juls' unvote. Apologies.
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:46 am

Post by Flava Flave »

Just wanna say I'd be against a Santos lynch. I'd prefer to lynch Arelian or Raivann.
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:53 pm

Post by Francis »

Why are you against a Santos lynch?


Santos, I didn't say your town play was great, I said it was better than what you were showing us in this game. Your contribution had been essentially nil until your last post. For us as a town to ignore this and not run you up for it would be imprudent.

You still haven't answered arelian's question.
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:55 pm

Post by Sho Minamimoto »

Francis wrote:I'd like to point out that I don't see how Juls' train of thought makes much sense.

She suspects that Flava might have faked claimed
weak
watcher in an attempt to draw the "real" full watcher out. Why wouldn't he just claim plain watcher then?

Sho wrote:I think that Raivann has been generally useless so
Vote Raivann
If you were going to call anyone in this game useless, I would have thought you'd pick Santos. How do you rate his contributions so far?
Not good, but since arelian is already attacking Santos, I'm attacking the other person from whom I desired information.
Flava Flave wrote:Just wanna say I'd be against a Santos lynch. I'd prefer to lynch Arelian or Raivann.
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:25 am

Post by Raivann »

Sho Minamimoto wrote:
Unvote
although I don't like Francis' "real vote" comment to start the game off, I'm losing interest in attacking him. The person I am most suspicious of is claimed ,and I believe that claim.

Hm... let's say I pseudo clear the following: Flava and Francis.

Hm... I like Juls so far. That leaves Raivann, arelian, and Santos.

arelian is attacking Santos. I think that Raivann has been generally useless so
Vote Raivann
I think that Sho has been generally zetta annoying and is partners with Flava.

claim: weak doctor


I'm claiming before you guys lynch me or Santos.
If i protect mafia I die, I visited Santos last night, and I'm still alive so...
any questions?
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:51 am

Post by Juls »

Raivann wrote:
arelian wrote: Raivann, what do you think about me/francis/flava?
I'm gettin townie vibes off you and Francis. I think Flava is scummy for quick hammer.
@Raivann: This post was made after Flava claimed weak watcher. Did you not believe him immediately? Given your claim and the flavor asociated with it (i.e. "weak")I would think you would believe him. But, you kept your vote on him and continued to call him scummy. What were your thoughts of Flava's claim?
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:21 am

Post by arelian »

Hmm, interesting. If there's a weak watcher in the game as Flava claims he is, there is a decent chance that there is a weak doctor in this game too.

Raivann's claim can be pretty easily verified- if Santos flips scum at any point, that means for sure that Raivann is scum. But honestly I doubt that they both are scum, seems like a pretty risky play for Raivann to risk having Santos die at some point and reveal him. I'm going to guess that either both Raivann and Santos are town or that Raivann is scum and Santos is town. So
unvote
.

Flava's claim certainly looks better now that Raivann has claimed, since they both share a theme, sort of. I'm with Juls, here; Raivann, what do you think of Flava's claim? And Flava, what do you think of Raivann's?
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:34 am

Post by arelian »

Although I guess it's possible that Raivann and Santos are a scumpair and they just don't know it yet, but I'm not seeing it. If Raivann was scum and claimed weak doctor I'd say he would just pick one of the townies on his confirmed list.
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:45 am

Post by Raivann »

Juls wrote:
Raivann wrote:
arelian wrote: Raivann, what do you think about me/francis/flava?
I'm gettin townie vibes off you and Francis. I think Flava is scummy for quick hammer.
@Raivann: This post was made after Flava claimed weak watcher. Did you not believe him immediately? Given your claim and the flavor asociated with it (i.e. "weak")I would think you would believe him. But, you kept your vote on him and continued to call him scummy. What were your thoughts of Flava's claim?
Yeah I was inclined to believe it but reading his sig and his quick hammer I had second thoughts. I thought he had some crazy master plan. I really thought there was scum on that wagon. You guys do make a good point though.

Im liking Juls & arelians recent posts and if Flava is telling the truth that leaves...

unvote, Vote: Sho Minamimoto
Sho & Francis = scumteam maybe
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:24 pm

Post by Sho Minamimoto »

Raivann wrote:
Juls wrote:
Raivann wrote:
arelian wrote: Raivann, what do you think about me/francis/flava?
I'm gettin townie vibes off you and Francis. I think Flava is scummy for quick hammer.
@Raivann: This post was made after Flava claimed weak watcher. Did you not believe him immediately? Given your claim and the flavor asociated with it (i.e. "weak")I would think you would believe him. But, you kept your vote on him and continued to call him scummy. What were your thoughts of Flava's claim?
Yeah I was inclined to believe it but reading his sig and his quick hammer I had second thoughts. I thought he had some crazy master plan. I really thought there was scum on that wagon. You guys do make a good point though.

Im liking Juls & arelians recent posts and if Flava is telling the truth that leaves...

unvote, Vote: Sho Minamimoto
Sho & Francis = scumteam maybe
Hm... You're right about Francis, but I'm voting him primarily because of his original statement about his "not random" vote on Zilla, which was followed by a lynching. In fact, I just reread Francis in iso and realized Francis never did answer my question. (I could have missed it, and if I did, do point that out Francis). In other news, a weak watcher and a weak doctor... well, at least the doctor is useful for ascertaining a person=town.
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:24 pm

Post by Sho Minamimoto »

I'm switching my vote back to him*

unvote; vote Francis
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:19 pm

Post by Francis »

Raivann, why protect Santos? Where do you think Flava got the idea to claim weak watcher from?

Sho, what makes you think that my non-random vote indicates that I'm Mafia?
If this is what you're referring to:
Sho wrote:I personally think that Francis should explain the "this is not a random vote thing" more so than Flava being as stupid as the person he is pretending to be.
I provided an explanation here:
Me, post 38 wrote:I've never played with Zilla before, but read this in the queue:
Zilla, in the Mini Theme queue wrote:/in for Artem's Death in the Family.

Sadly, his description has me thinking of how fun it would be to play scum, to the point where
I almost might be disappointed not to get scum
:P
and here:
Me, post 54 wrote:She seemed to imply that her manner would be significantly different depending on which role received. I was hoping we'd be able get an idea of whether she was disappointed that she wasn't a goon or something.
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:06 pm

Post by Raivann »

Francis wrote: Raivann, why protect Santos? Where do you think Flava got the idea to claim weak watcher from?
I was thinking at least 1 scum was on the wagon. I wasnt gonna pick anyone on the wagon, so I figured my odds were pretty good.

Thinking about it more you all are right, I just couldn't get past the hammer and I didn't want to believe it right away. My bad, I'm pulling the newb defense on this one.
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:40 pm

Post by Artem »

Day 2, Votecount 4


Raivann(1): Flava Flave

Santos(1): Francis
arelian (1): Juls
Sho Minamimoto(1): Raivann
Francis(1): Sho Minamimoto

Not voting (2): Santos, arelian


With 7 present, it takes 4 to force somebody to sign the warrant.

Deadline is Monday, August 10th, 5:00pm EST.
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:32 pm

Post by Sho Minamimoto »

Francis wrote:Raivann, why protect Santos? Where do you think Flava got the idea to claim weak watcher from?

Sho, what makes you think that my non-random vote indicates that I'm Mafia?
If this is what you're referring to:
Sho wrote:I personally think that Francis should explain the "this is not a random vote thing" more so than Flava being as stupid as the person he is pretending to be.
I provided an explanation here:
Me, post 38 wrote:I've never played with Zilla before, but read this in the queue:
Zilla, in the Mini Theme queue wrote:/in for Artem's Death in the Family.

Sadly, his description has me thinking of how fun it would be to play scum, to the point where
I almost might be disappointed not to get scum
:P
and here:
Me, post 54 wrote:She seemed to imply that her manner would be significantly different depending on which role received. I was hoping we'd be able get an idea of whether she was disappointed that she wasn't a goon or something.
Ah. I did miss that. Thanks.

Hm...

Okay, let me see:
Sho Minamimoto <-- scumminess is root-1
Flava Flave <---Weak Watcher(assumed)
Santos <---Weak Doctor confirmed (assumed)
Juls<----???
Francis <---- ???
Raivann <---Weak Doctor
arelian <----????

Francis' suspicion still exists because he wanted a lynch from his opening post. I think town encouraging this, even given Zilla's past statements, is scummy.

arelian is a pretty good player in general...but I just looked at this and found:
Francis wrote:We're in potential lylo.

Lynches I'd entertain in descending order:
Flava Flave
Santos
Raivann
Juls
arelian
Sho Minamimoto
Juls wrote:I am not necessarily buying that the hammer dropper is the scummiest. Stupidest maybe but if you are scum and you hammer like that you are just signing your death warrant.
Do you think Flava is stupid or scummy?

Vote: Flava Flave

Why did you hammer?
He places arelian as less suspicious than Juls...however, the reason is...well...non existent. He questions Juls for a post that already has the answer. In my opinion the scum team is one of the following:

Francis/Arelian
Juls/Francis

Sorry Francis, but as my common denominator, I am forced to factor you out to solve for X.
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:58 am

Post by Santos »

Francis wrote:Raivann, why protect Santos? Where do you think Flava got the idea to claim weak watcher from?
Where did he get the idea from?
Raivann wrote:I was thinking at least 1 scum was on the wagon. I wasnt gonna pick anyone on the wagon, so I figured my odds were pretty good.

Thinking about it more you all are right, I just couldn't get past the hammer and I didn't want to believe it right away. My bad, I'm pulling the newb defense on this one.
What is the 'newb defense' according to what you did?
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:15 am

Post by Raivann »

I guess I shoulda believed Flava's claim cause both our roles had the word 'weak' in them
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:26 am

Post by Santos »

You doubted it? lol

Well, if we believe Flave and Raivann and Raivann's confirmation, then we've just dwindled the list of suspects nearly in half, IMO. But, of course, that's my opinion. If we were to believe the above, then we've certainly got our Day 1 suspects there right in front of us who disallowed any sort of discussion/speculation.
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:45 pm

Post by Flava Flave »

Francis wrote:Why are you against a Santos lynch?
I think he's town.
Sho Minamimoto wrote: Distinguish your suspicions. If you could do that, you'd just be super special awesome. Oh, and a paragraph proof for your conclusion would just be zetta sweet.
Order of likeliness to be scum (btw, I've seen Raiv's claim and believe it and will be unvoting in this post):
Arelian
Juls
Sho
Francis
Raiv
Santos
Flave

I list Santos as townier than Raiv because the only way Santos is scum is if Raiv is lying. So Santos can't be scum unless Raiv is, and even THAT is unlikely. I also have a town read on Francis because of his Day 1 suggestion. I've already expressed my concerns with Arelian. Between you (Sho) and Juls, it's actually a tossup. I need to look closer though, because I believe one of you is likely scum.
Raivann wrote: I think that Sho has been generally zetta annoying and is partners with Flava.

claim: weak doctor


I'm claiming before you guys lynch me or Santos.
If i protect mafia I die, I visited Santos last night, and I'm still alive so...
any questions?
You should be trying to target town aligned players so that we can clear them.
arelian wrote:And Flava, what do you think of Raivann's?
He's obvtown. If he isn't town, we'll obviously see that later. He is NOT today's lynch.

Unvote, Vote arelian
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:49 pm

Post by Juls »

Guys, I apologize. I have a final on Wednesday and I am neck deep in studying. I will check in on Wednesday night after it is over. This is within the 48 hour time frame so hopefully Artem is ok with not replacing me. :)
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