Mini 1329: Create-Your-Own-Role Mafia: Game Over
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- Maruchan
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Oh I like 13. Nice going Elmo!
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- AurorusVox
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You do realize, that he submitted his role BEFORE he got his alignment, and that he did NOT receive the own role he made, correct?
Not seeing why you therefor believe that role being made = elmo scum
Not seeing why you therefor believe that role being made = elmo scum
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↑ AurorusVox wrote:I am outright appalled that I am the first person to vote Elmo for submitting that role.
wow, I have to say that is a very good point. such a role is misleading as townie and could be very useful as scum.
Unvote;
Vote: Elmo
Vote: Elmo
first credit goes to Aurorus.
pedit: Maru, elmo is probably the only one who recieved his role and alignment BEFORE he submitted his role, I think. the fact that he did not recieve his own role doesn't matter; because
A) roles are being switched every night/day phase
B) even as town, using such a role can only mislead you. it can almost never do good, it's like stealing another's role. the only good thing it can do is redirect a mafia kill to another mafia, but what are teh odds; you'll have no nail 2 mafias correctly for that.
In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
- Maruchan
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@Mod: DO roles change at the beginning of a DAY or NIGHT phase?
IE: The apathetic, is the current apathetic immune tonight, or was he immune "last night"
IE: The apathetic, is the current apathetic immune tonight, or was he immune "last night"
@Mod: Can you either confirm or deny Elmo received his alignment before sending his role, so as to squash these stupid pointless "OMG HE MADE A SCUMMY ROLE HE MUST BE SCUM" arguments?
@Your B: How is using a it to re-direct a scumkill to HIMSELF. The role doesn't say you can't make both users A and B the same person?
all you need is to luck onto 1 scum.
or the doctor can protect HIMSELF, if for some reason you know who the doctor is, and that he is in danger of being killed.
Aurorus vote didn't make him scummy, because I don't think he thought it through. Your vote makes you scummy, because you tried to justify it.
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@Mod: If in fact, he did receive his alignment first, I propose a re-shifting of alignments and starting over. Just my opinion.
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- PranaDevil
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What about the fact that Elmo could see what roles had been submitted, could see that there was no cop type of role in the game, and subsequently chose to NOT provide one means that if he recieved his alignment before his role (which I suspect) he would know it was an extremely bad idea, for scum, to get a cop type of role in the game (closest we have I think is the hider role I submitted, and being as we were told to give weaker versions of roles, I weakened it considerably for this game, yet others seem to have created massively overpowered roles, which I suggest the mod should throw out if he runs another of these games).
- Elmo TeH AzN
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Before you all go batshit on me. I thought about what roles we had. Went from there. My creative mind wasn't working well and looking at what we had I figured a redirector maybe one of the best. I have received no role only a PM saying a wincon. Look at the logic behind the role instead of instantly dismissing it. And Prana. Would you have wanted me to PM you asking for a role idea? I was told it things it couldn't be and cop seemed like it was one of those things given the parameters I was given.
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- AurorusVox
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...A wincon is an alignment PM. So you knew you were "town" when you sent the role in.
You had as long as you wanted to send the role in. You could've waited until your "creative mind" WAS working, or discussed it with us all, or asked the mod about cop roles. There's nothing saying you can't have an investigative role: just not a DIRECT or SIMPLE one. You could've given it your own parameter to modify it.
Instead you've submitted a role that suits scum far more than town.
Unless you can explain why redirection was "maybe one of the best"? Redirection in and of itself benefits an informed minority more than an uninformed majority.
You had as long as you wanted to send the role in. You could've waited until your "creative mind" WAS working, or discussed it with us all, or asked the mod about cop roles. There's nothing saying you can't have an investigative role: just not a DIRECT or SIMPLE one. You could've given it your own parameter to modify it.
Instead you've submitted a role that suits scum far more than town.
Unless you can explain why redirection was "maybe one of the best"? Redirection in and of itself benefits an informed minority more than an uninformed majority.
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↑ PranaDevil wrote:What about the fact that Elmo could see what roles had been submitted, could see that there was no cop type of role in the game, and subsequently chose to NOT provide one means that if he recieved his alignment before his role (which I suspect) he would know it was an extremely bad idea, for scum, to get a cop type of role in the game (closest we have I think is the hider role I submitted, and being as we were told to give weaker versions of roles, I weakened it considerably for this game, yet others seem to have created massively overpowered roles, which I suggest the mod should throw out if he runs another of these games).
or not all of us think of Cop when we think of "OMG I WANT TO MAKE AN AMAZING ROLE THAT I'LL PROBABLY NEVER HAVE THE CHANCE TO DO THIS AGAIN "
None of the rest of us made a cop-role, now did we?
So why should he have to make his OMG I WANT TO BE AMAZING based off of what YOU made. Why she HE be forced to make something just because YOU DIDN'T MAKE IT.
I know I have not yet once thought of a cop-role yet since hearing about the game, thinking what I would make if I was elmo, etc, until you mentioned it. Just because if you were in his place, and would have made a cop, doesn't mean everyone else's minds think the same way yours does.
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- Maruchan
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↑ Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Before you all go batshit on me. I thought about what roles we had. Went from there. My creative mind wasn't working well and looking at what we had I figured a redirector maybe one of the best. I have received no role only a PM saying a wincon. Look at the logic behind the role instead of instantly dismissing it. And Prana. Would you have wanted me to PM you asking for a role idea? I was told it things it couldn't be and cop seemed like it was one of those things given the parameters I was given.
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↑ AurorusVox wrote:Unless you can explain why redirection was "maybe one of the best"? Redirection in and of itself benefits an informed minority more than an uninformed majority.
↑ Maruchan wrote:@Your B: How is using a it to re-direct a scumkill to HIMSELF. The role doesn't say you can't make both users A and B the same person?
all you need is to luck onto 1 scum.
or the doctor can protect HIMSELF, if for some reason you know who the doctor is, and that he is in danger of being killed.
Aurorus vote didn't make him scummy, because I don't think he thought it through. Your vote makes you scummy, because you tried to justify it.
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- Elmo TeH AzN
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I can argue this point all day whether you're going to believe me that there is a point to realize why its actually decent role is another thing. And I wasn't going to keep the mod waiting all day for a role. I thought about making a Vig role but realized GNR already made one with Percy Jackson.
Your right I could have made a role cop or something similar. Instead I went with something out of the normal.
And TBH - I never thought about a cop role. And going off a role I made is crazy. So what if I was scum and made a cop role? We wouldn't be talking about this and I would get a free pass for a while now wouldn't I?
Pedit: Why do Maru who I've butted heads with understand the power of a redirect but no one else does?
If I have that role its news to me.
Your right I could have made a role cop or something similar. Instead I went with something out of the normal.
And TBH - I never thought about a cop role. And going off a role I made is crazy. So what if I was scum and made a cop role? We wouldn't be talking about this and I would get a free pass for a while now wouldn't I?
Pedit: Why do Maru who I've butted heads with understand the power of a redirect but no one else does?
If I have that role its news to me.
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- Maruchan
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No its actually not obvious, I have role #13 right now, so I know for a fact he does not.
/game
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I'm not calling him out for not making a cop. I too would not have looked at the existing roles to decide, and would try to make something awesome. but the role he DID make, well, it benefits scum much much more. especially now that we know he knew he was town before he said that.
@maru: why would he redirect to himself? that is not helpful as town. it just switches the killed guy. you don't need to luck onto 1 scum; you need to luck onto the killer, and then luck onto a scum, so that the kill would go for scum. Doc protecting himself? well that gets the game stuck now doesn't it? no point in saving a doc that cannot protect anyone but himself.
ninja'd by 2 posts.
@maru: why would he redirect to himself? that is not helpful as town. it just switches the killed guy. you don't need to luck onto 1 scum; you need to luck onto the killer, and then luck onto a scum, so that the kill would go for scum. Doc protecting himself? well that gets the game stuck now doesn't it? no point in saving a doc that cannot protect anyone but himself.
ninja'd by 2 posts.
In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
- Maruchan
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Shos you refuse to admit that it can be useful just because a redirector is a scum-role in vanilla mafia.
Both applications I mentioned can be useful, among more if I felt like picking at the list.
Once we've worked out the role rotation, maybe the guy we think is scum gets the BRING BACK FROM DEAD role one night, and OH NOES HE WANTS TO REVIVE HIS PARTNER.
so the redirector redirects him off of reviving a dead guy, onto reviving a living guy. and the SCUM DOESN'T COME BACK
god you people refuse to believe it can be town sided because past games have hammered into your brain "redirector is scum" which in turn makes you think anyone who wants a redirector IS scum.
Both applications I mentioned can be useful, among more if I felt like picking at the list.
Once we've worked out the role rotation, maybe the guy we think is scum gets the BRING BACK FROM DEAD role one night, and OH NOES HE WANTS TO REVIVE HIS PARTNER.
so the redirector redirects him off of reviving a dead guy, onto reviving a living guy. and the SCUM DOESN'T COME BACK
god you people refuse to believe it can be town sided because past games have hammered into your brain "redirector is scum" which in turn makes you think anyone who wants a redirector IS scum.
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- Maruchan
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I messed up my wording:
revives a town guy instead of reviving a scum guy*
revives a town guy instead of reviving a scum guy*
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don't treat my like a superb player, I have no idea what a redirector is. I want you to give me specific examples of how it can be useful.
the revive thingie - do you reallllly think such a scenario is likely to happen?
the revive thingie - do you reallllly think such a scenario is likely to happen?
In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
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2nd question Yes
1st question:
Say X kills Y
Redirector: selects X to redirect to X
X is scum.
??? = Profit
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- AurorusVox
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Flipflopping much? Two scum down.
↑ Maruchan wrote:Both applications I mentioned can be useful, among more if I felt like picking at the list.
Once we've worked out the role rotation, maybe the guy we think is scum gets the BRING BACK FROM DEAD role one night, and OH NOES HE WANTS TO REVIVE HIS PARTNER.
so the redirector redirects him off of reviving a dead guy, onto reviving a living guy. and the SCUM DOESN'T COME BACK
Doctor protecting himself is only really worthwhile if the doctor is confirmed town. Which is impossible without a cop.
I mean I see that it can be useful if the doctor is playing a pro-town game and we want to keep him alive but (a) that requires that we know who the doc is, and (b) that simply alerts scum to the fact that they can't target that player during that night.
Oh and it also assumes that the redirector is town on the same night that our pro-town (but not confirmed town) player is outed as having the doc.
Redirecting scum kill onto scum again requires that the redirector knows who is scum (which again, without a cop is always at a less than 100% certainty).
And redirecting the reviver away from his scumbuddy AGAIN only works with accuracy when you KNOW who scum is.
It has a higher chance of hitting a town role than a scum role, and therefore is more likely to interfere with the town power that we DO have (e.g. redirecting a doc away from a kill, or a vig or tracker away from scum).
Also welcome to the WIFOM when you redirect someone onto a player who has been killed. It's not even a reliable indicator of anything other than the fact that the player you redirected wasn't a doctor.
These arguments fail to convince me that it is more useful to town than to scum.
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