Mini 1329: Create-Your-Own-Role Mafia: Game Over


Forum rules
User avatar
Maruchan
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5089
Joined: July 5, 2011
Pronoun: she/her
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Post Post #75 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:04 am

Post by Maruchan »

Oh I like 13. Nice going Elmo!
Show
Returning to modding after a nearly two year hiatus!
9 player Purgatory coming to the Open Queue Soon!
Join Now!

Micro Grand Idea uPick coming to the micro queue soon!
User avatar
AurorusVox
AurorusVox
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
AurorusVox
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8480
Joined: March 12, 2010
Contact:

Post Post #76 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:27 am

Post by AurorusVox »

Moneybags wrote:This game is going to be crazy. Lol.

So lets hop out of RVS. UNVOTE:

BB how come you wanted an alliance with GNR?

Unvote; Vote: Moneybags



julienvonwolfe wrote:
13) DOTA (from Elmo)

Since you love playing DOTA and League Of Legends and also when you play you listen to a lot of Basshunter you're in luck. At night, you can control one person's action, directing where their power is going to go if they still have one.

Mod note: In other words, you choose a player A and a player B; player A's role will target player B instead of their choice.

Unvote; Vote: Elmo


ElmoScum confirmed.
THE LEMON LIVES! - Cabd
User avatar
AurorusVox
AurorusVox
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
AurorusVox
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8480
Joined: March 12, 2010
Contact:

Post Post #77 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:28 am

Post by AurorusVox »

I am outright appalled that I am the first person to vote Elmo for submitting that role.
THE LEMON LIVES! - Cabd
User avatar
Maruchan
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5089
Joined: July 5, 2011
Pronoun: she/her
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Post Post #78 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:03 am

Post by Maruchan »

You do realize, that he submitted his role BEFORE he got his alignment, and that he did NOT receive the own role he made, correct?

Not seeing why you therefor believe that role being made = elmo scum
Show
Returning to modding after a nearly two year hiatus!
9 player Purgatory coming to the Open Queue Soon!
Join Now!

Micro Grand Idea uPick coming to the micro queue soon!
User avatar
shos
shos
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
shos
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17862
Joined: November 28, 2011

Post Post #79 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:07 am

Post by shos »

AurorusVox wrote:I am outright appalled that I am the first person to vote Elmo for submitting that role.

wow, I have to say that is a very good point. such a role is misleading as townie and could be very useful as scum.

Unvote;
Vote: Elmo


first credit goes to Aurorus.


pedit: Maru, elmo is probably the only one who recieved his role and alignment BEFORE he submitted his role, I think. the fact that he did not recieve his own role doesn't matter; because
A) roles are being switched every night/day phase
B) even as town, using such a role can only mislead you. it can almost never do good, it's like stealing another's role. the only good thing it can do is redirect a mafia kill to another mafia, but what are teh odds; you'll have no nail 2 mafias correctly for that.
In post 836, Lucky2u said:

Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
User avatar
shos
shos
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
shos
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17862
Joined: November 28, 2011

Post Post #80 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:08 am

Post by shos »

I'm not sure if the question of what came first the egg or the chicken is a mod-worthy question?
In post 836, Lucky2u said:

Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
User avatar
Maruchan
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5089
Joined: July 5, 2011
Pronoun: she/her
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Post Post #81 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:13 am

Post by Maruchan »

@Mod: DO roles change at the beginning of a DAY or NIGHT phase?

IE: The apathetic, is the current apathetic immune tonight, or was he immune "last night"


@Mod: Can you either confirm or deny Elmo received his alignment before sending his role, so as to squash these stupid pointless "OMG HE MADE A SCUMMY ROLE HE MUST BE SCUM" arguments?


@Your B: How is using a it to re-direct a scumkill to HIMSELF. The role doesn't say you can't make both users A and B the same person?

all you need is to luck onto 1 scum.

or the doctor can protect HIMSELF, if for some reason you know who the doctor is, and that he is in danger of being killed.


Aurorus vote didn't make him scummy, because I don't think he thought it through. Your vote makes you scummy, because you tried to justify it.
Show
Returning to modding after a nearly two year hiatus!
9 player Purgatory coming to the Open Queue Soon!
Join Now!

Micro Grand Idea uPick coming to the micro queue soon!
User avatar
Maruchan
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5089
Joined: July 5, 2011
Pronoun: she/her
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Post Post #82 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:14 am

Post by Maruchan »

@Mod: If in fact, he did receive his alignment first, I propose a re-shifting of alignments and starting over. Just my opinion.
Show
Returning to modding after a nearly two year hiatus!
9 player Purgatory coming to the Open Queue Soon!
Join Now!

Micro Grand Idea uPick coming to the micro queue soon!
User avatar
PranaDevil
PranaDevil
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
PranaDevil
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2218
Joined: January 31, 2010
Location: England

Post Post #83 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:32 am

Post by PranaDevil »

What about the fact that Elmo could see what roles had been submitted, could see that there was no cop type of role in the game, and subsequently chose to NOT provide one means that if he recieved his alignment before his role (which I suspect) he would know it was an extremely bad idea, for scum, to get a cop type of role in the game (closest we have I think is the hider role I submitted, and being as we were told to give weaker versions of roles, I weakened it considerably for this game, yet others seem to have created massively overpowered roles, which I suggest the mod should throw out if he runs another of these games).
User avatar
Elmo TeH AzN
Elmo TeH AzN
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Elmo TeH AzN
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5288
Joined: November 2, 2011
Location: Up In A Tree Somewhere.

Post Post #84 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:49 am

Post by Elmo TeH AzN »

Before you all go batshit on me. I thought about what roles we had. Went from there. My creative mind wasn't working well and looking at what we had I figured a redirector maybe one of the best. I have received no role only a PM saying a wincon. Look at the logic behind the role instead of instantly dismissing it. And Prana. Would you have wanted me to PM you asking for a role idea? I was told it things it couldn't be and cop seemed like it was one of those things given the parameters I was given.
Stats not in the wiki. I'm That Crazy Panda.
I Speak Engrish Not English Leave My Grammar Alone.


Permanently V/LA
User avatar
AurorusVox
AurorusVox
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
AurorusVox
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8480
Joined: March 12, 2010
Contact:

Post Post #85 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:02 am

Post by AurorusVox »

...A wincon is an alignment PM. So you knew you were "town" when you sent the role in.

You had as long as you wanted to send the role in. You could've waited until your "creative mind" WAS working, or discussed it with us all, or asked the mod about cop roles. There's nothing saying you can't have an investigative role: just not a DIRECT or SIMPLE one. You could've given it your own parameter to modify it.

Instead you've submitted a role that suits scum far more than town.

Unless you can explain why redirection was "maybe one of the best"? Redirection in and of itself benefits an informed minority more than an uninformed majority.
THE LEMON LIVES! - Cabd
User avatar
AurorusVox
AurorusVox
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
AurorusVox
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8480
Joined: March 12, 2010
Contact:

Post Post #86 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:05 am

Post by AurorusVox »

@Maru, I thought it through.
THE LEMON LIVES! - Cabd
User avatar
Moneybags
Moneybags
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Moneybags
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1578
Joined: June 25, 2011

Post Post #87 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:09 am

Post by Moneybags »

Yeah I agree with AV. Elmo is looking pretty scummy for doing that.

Also I must of skimmed over BB's explanation. Sorry for being redundant >.<
User avatar
Maruchan
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5089
Joined: July 5, 2011
Pronoun: she/her
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Post Post #88 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:09 am

Post by Maruchan »

PranaDevil wrote:What about the fact that Elmo could see what roles had been submitted, could see that there was no cop type of role in the game, and subsequently chose to NOT provide one means that if he recieved his alignment before his role (which I suspect) he would know it was an extremely bad idea, for scum, to get a cop type of role in the game (closest we have I think is the hider role I submitted, and being as we were told to give weaker versions of roles, I weakened it considerably for this game, yet others seem to have created massively overpowered roles, which I suggest the mod should throw out if he runs another of these games).

or not all of us think of Cop when we think of "OMG I WANT TO MAKE AN AMAZING ROLE THAT I'LL PROBABLY NEVER HAVE THE CHANCE TO DO THIS AGAIN :D"

None of the rest of us made a cop-role, now did we?

So why should he have to make his OMG I WANT TO BE AMAZING based off of what YOU made. Why she HE be forced to make something just because YOU DIDN'T MAKE IT.

I know I have not yet once thought of a cop-role yet since hearing about the game, thinking what I would make if I was elmo, etc, until you mentioned it. Just because if you were in his place, and would have made a cop, doesn't mean everyone else's minds think the same way yours does.
Show
Returning to modding after a nearly two year hiatus!
9 player Purgatory coming to the Open Queue Soon!
Join Now!

Micro Grand Idea uPick coming to the micro queue soon!
User avatar
Maruchan
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5089
Joined: July 5, 2011
Pronoun: she/her
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Post Post #89 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:10 am

Post by Maruchan »

Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Before you all go batshit on me. I thought about what roles we had. Went from there. My creative mind wasn't working well and looking at what we had I figured a redirector maybe one of the best. I have received no role only a PM saying a wincon. Look at the logic behind the role instead of instantly dismissing it. And Prana. Would you have wanted me to PM you asking for a role idea? I was told it things it couldn't be and cop seemed like it was one of those things given the parameters I was given.

Maruchan wrote:
@Mod: If in fact, he did receive his alignment first, I propose a re-shifting of alignments and starting over. Just my opinion.
Show
Returning to modding after a nearly two year hiatus!
9 player Purgatory coming to the Open Queue Soon!
Join Now!

Micro Grand Idea uPick coming to the micro queue soon!
User avatar
Maruchan
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5089
Joined: July 5, 2011
Pronoun: she/her
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Post Post #90 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:11 am

Post by Maruchan »

AurorusVox wrote:Unless you can explain why redirection was "maybe one of the best"? Redirection in and of itself benefits an informed minority more than an uninformed majority.

Maruchan wrote:@Your B: How is using a it to re-direct a scumkill to HIMSELF. The role doesn't say you can't make both users A and B the same person?

all you need is to luck onto 1 scum.

or the doctor can protect HIMSELF, if for some reason you know who the doctor is, and that he is in danger of being killed.


Aurorus vote didn't make him scummy, because I don't think he thought it through. Your vote makes you scummy, because you tried to justify it.
Show
Returning to modding after a nearly two year hiatus!
9 player Purgatory coming to the Open Queue Soon!
Join Now!

Micro Grand Idea uPick coming to the micro queue soon!
User avatar
Moneybags
Moneybags
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Moneybags
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1578
Joined: June 25, 2011

Post Post #91 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:12 am

Post by Moneybags »

Someone made the Stalker with the Watcher/Tracker combo. And I made the time traveling doc. So....

Edit: I agree with Maru. And it's obvious that he has that role too, right? Considering we all had ours an he came in with his.
User avatar
Elmo TeH AzN
Elmo TeH AzN
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Elmo TeH AzN
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5288
Joined: November 2, 2011
Location: Up In A Tree Somewhere.

Post Post #92 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:14 am

Post by Elmo TeH AzN »

I can argue this point all day whether you're going to believe me that there is a point to realize why its actually decent role is another thing. And I wasn't going to keep the mod waiting all day for a role. I thought about making a Vig role but realized GNR already made one with Percy Jackson.

Your right I could have made a role cop or something similar. Instead I went with something out of the normal.
And TBH - I never thought about a cop role. And going off a role I made is crazy. So what if I was scum and made a cop role? We wouldn't be talking about this and I would get a free pass for a while now wouldn't I?

Pedit: Why do Maru who I've butted heads with understand the power of a redirect but no one else does?

If I have that role its news to me.
Stats not in the wiki. I'm That Crazy Panda.
I Speak Engrish Not English Leave My Grammar Alone.


Permanently V/LA
User avatar
Maruchan
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5089
Joined: July 5, 2011
Pronoun: she/her
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Post Post #93 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:18 am

Post by Maruchan »

Moneybags wrote:Someone made the Stalker with the Watcher/Tracker combo. And I made the time traveling doc. So....

Edit: I agree with Maru. And it's obvious that he has that role too, right? Considering we all had ours an he came in with his.

No its actually not obvious, I have role #13 right now, so I know for a fact he does not.

/game
Show
Returning to modding after a nearly two year hiatus!
9 player Purgatory coming to the Open Queue Soon!
Join Now!

Micro Grand Idea uPick coming to the micro queue soon!
User avatar
shos
shos
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
shos
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17862
Joined: November 28, 2011

Post Post #94 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:29 am

Post by shos »

I'm not calling him out for not making a cop. I too would not have looked at the existing roles to decide, and would try to make something awesome. but the role he DID make, well, it benefits scum much much more. especially now that we know he knew he was town before he said that.

@maru: why would he redirect to himself? that is not helpful as town. it just switches the killed guy. you don't need to luck onto 1 scum; you need to luck onto the killer, and then luck onto a scum, so that the kill would go for scum. Doc protecting himself? well that gets the game stuck now doesn't it? no point in saving a doc that cannot protect anyone but himself.

ninja'd by 2 posts.
In post 836, Lucky2u said:

Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
User avatar
Maruchan
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5089
Joined: July 5, 2011
Pronoun: she/her
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Post Post #95 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:32 am

Post by Maruchan »

Shos you refuse to admit that it can be useful just because a redirector is a scum-role in vanilla mafia.

Both applications I mentioned can be useful, among more if I felt like picking at the list.

Once we've worked out the role rotation, maybe the guy we think is scum gets the BRING BACK FROM DEAD role one night, and OH NOES HE WANTS TO REVIVE HIS PARTNER.

so the redirector redirects him off of reviving a dead guy, onto reviving a living guy. and the SCUM DOESN'T COME BACK

god you people refuse to believe it can be town sided because past games have hammered into your brain "redirector is scum" which in turn makes you think anyone who wants a redirector IS scum.
Show
Returning to modding after a nearly two year hiatus!
9 player Purgatory coming to the Open Queue Soon!
Join Now!

Micro Grand Idea uPick coming to the micro queue soon!
User avatar
Maruchan
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Maruchan
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5089
Joined: July 5, 2011
Pronoun: she/her
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Post Post #96 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:33 am

Post by Maruchan »

I messed up my wording:

revives a town guy instead of reviving a scum guy*
Show
Returning to modding after a nearly two year hiatus!
9 player Purgatory coming to the Open Queue Soon!
Join Now!

Micro Grand Idea uPick coming to the micro queue soon!
User avatar
shos
shos
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
shos
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17862
Joined: November 28, 2011

Post Post #97 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:38 am

Post by shos »

don't treat my like a superb player, I have no idea what a redirector is. I want you to give me specific examples of how it can be useful.

the revive thingie - do you reallllly think such a scenario is likely to happen?
In post 836, Lucky2u said:

Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
User avatar
Elmo TeH AzN
Elmo TeH AzN
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Elmo TeH AzN
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5288
Joined: November 2, 2011
Location: Up In A Tree Somewhere.

Post Post #98 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:44 am

Post by Elmo TeH AzN »

shos wrote:don't treat my like a superb player, I have no idea what a redirector is. I want you to give me specific examples of how it can be useful.

the revive thingie - do you reallllly think such a scenario is likely to happen?

2nd question Yes
1st question:
Say X kills Y
Redirector: selects X to redirect to X
X is scum.
??? = Profit
Stats not in the wiki. I'm That Crazy Panda.
I Speak Engrish Not English Leave My Grammar Alone.


Permanently V/LA
User avatar
AurorusVox
AurorusVox
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
AurorusVox
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8480
Joined: March 12, 2010
Contact:

Post Post #99 (ISO) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:49 am

Post by AurorusVox »

Moneybags wrote:Yeah I agree with AV. Elmo is looking pretty scummy for doing that.
Moneybags wrote:Edit: I agree with Maru.

Flipflopping much? Two scum down.

Maruchan wrote:Both applications I mentioned can be useful, among more if I felt like picking at the list.

Once we've worked out the role rotation, maybe the guy we think is scum gets the BRING BACK FROM DEAD role one night, and OH NOES HE WANTS TO REVIVE HIS PARTNER.

so the redirector redirects him off of reviving a dead guy, onto reviving a living guy. and the SCUM DOESN'T COME BACK

Doctor protecting himself is only really worthwhile if the doctor is confirmed town. Which is impossible without a cop.
I mean I see that it can be useful if the doctor is playing a pro-town game and we want to keep him alive but (a) that requires that we know who the doc is, and (b) that simply alerts scum to the fact that they can't target that player during that night.
Oh and it also assumes that the redirector is town on the same night that our pro-town (but not confirmed town) player is outed as having the doc.

Redirecting scum kill onto scum again requires that the redirector knows who is scum (which again, without a cop is always at a less than 100% certainty).

And redirecting the reviver away from his scumbuddy AGAIN only works with accuracy when you KNOW who scum is.

It has a higher chance of hitting a town role than a scum role, and therefore is more likely to interfere with the town power that we DO have (e.g. redirecting a doc away from a kill, or a vig or tracker away from scum).
Also welcome to the WIFOM when you redirect someone onto a player who has been killed. It's not even a reliable indicator of anything other than the fact that the player you redirected wasn't a doctor.

These arguments fail to convince me that it is more useful to town than to scum.
THE LEMON LIVES! - Cabd
Locked