Mini 253 - Killer7 Mafia: Gameover


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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:11 pm

Post by Adele »

Adele wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote: I'm going to claim my ability now. I am a role reflector. Anyone that targets me will have their actions reflected upon themselves
huh. If that's your role, what's your role name?

Also, are you saying that if the naughty folk try to kill you, they'll die instead (rendering you unkillable except by lynch)?
Still waiting on the answer to my question there... if you're gonna claim, I'd like to know precisely what you're claiming.
Why
did
you claim so early?
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:57 pm

Post by Rainbow Brite »

Adele wrote:Still waiting on the answer to my question there... if you're gonna claim, I'd like to know precisely what you're claiming.
Why
did
you claim so early?
i refer you to Roald Dahl mafia. for, like, the ninth time or something. :roll:
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:10 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Adele wrote:
Adele wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote: I'm going to claim my ability now. I am a role reflector. Anyone that targets me will have their actions reflected upon themselves
huh. If that's your role, what's your role name?

Also, are you saying that if the naughty folk try to kill you, they'll die instead (rendering you unkillable except by lynch)?
Still waiting on the answer to my question there... if you're gonna claim, I'd like to know precisely what you're claiming.
Why
did
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yes, if they try to kill me, they'll die instead. I don't think it's necessary to reveal my rolename at this point. Since we don't know who the scum would be in this game, I think I should hold onto my rolename, since it won't help to have it revealed. On the offchance that scum gets a character that they feel would be pretty obviously scum for one reason or another, having my name secret means I could catch them if they try to claim my character.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:31 pm

Post by Shiryu »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:yes, if they try to kill me, they'll die instead. I don't think it's necessary to reveal my rolename at this point. Since we don't know who the scum would be in this game, I think I should hold onto my rolename, since it won't help to have it revealed. On the offchance that scum gets a character that they feel would be pretty obviously scum for one reason or another, having my name secret means I could catch them if they try to claim my character.
Unless Crola did give them safe claims, as was sugested earlier in the game. Though I guess if that's the strategy you are using, it's better not to risk it, eh?
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 pm

Post by Adele »

RainbowBrite wrote:
Adele wrote:Still waiting on the answer to my question there... if you're gonna claim, I'd like to know precisely what you're claiming.
Why did you claim so early?
i refer you to Roald Dahl mafia. for, like, the ninth time or something. :roll:
So I read it, and it looks to me like MoS had to roleclaim because of other mistakes on his part, stemming from a tendency to lurk. It wasn't a mistake waiting until then to role-claim; ideally he shouldn't have had to role-claim at all.
I'm sorry, I still don't see why he'd volunteer that info. I also think that the objections to the role made in Roald Dahl still hold. Yeah, it was highly unlikely but true then. All we know now is it's highly unlikely. Are we supposed to believe that MoS won the lottery... twice? I think it's likelier he joined this game as scum and thought "huh, that whole role-reflecting role-claim'll be pretty handy here; they won't lynch me again"

Sorry. It doesn't fly. I got my eye on you, MoS
Oh, yeah, and
fos: Mastermind of Sin

though not a biggie. His actions warrant further consideration, IMO.
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:47 pm

Post by Shiryu »

The only scenario where MoS being scum would benefit from claiming that role is if he were godfather. Anything else, a cop could just investigate him and reveal him for what he truly is. But as you say Adele, what are the odds of MoS getting that same role again?
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:59 pm

Post by Adele »

Shiryu wrote:The only scenario where MoS being scum would benefit from claiming that role is if he were godfather. Anything else, a cop could just investigate him and reveal him for what he truly is. But as you say Adele, what are the odds of MoS getting that same role again?
I think the odds of him being godfather is a darn sight better than him being a role-reflector.
But I disagree with your view of the matter. I think there are ways around it for non-godfather roles. For example, he's non-godfather scum who believed he'd be able to play it smoothly enough to make cops think it's not worth investigating him, or that his mafia buddies would counter-claim if he did get investigated and the cop came out with a guilty. Or he could try claiming paranoid or insane cop (I don't know how likely those roles would be in a game of this size).
I'm not saying, "let's lynch him now!", but I am more suspicious of him for having made that claim, I still don't quite get why he did so, and I'm not ready to let it go just yet. That's all I'm saying.
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:36 pm

Post by Assasin »

Vote Count:

2 Shiryu
- (Coolbot, Fritzler)
1 Fritzler
- (RB)
1 Adele
(Inhim)
1 MoS
(Strykker)
1 Inhim
(Commodore)
0 No Lynch


5 Not Voting:
(Warpdragon, Shiryu, Adele, ROTN, MoS)

With 11 it's 6 to lynch.
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:48 pm

Post by StrykkerVerde »

well if we wanna test MOS then we could have some sort of non-lethal ability target him tonight in which case that person would have some sort of effect happen on themselves. If we do that we'd have to use something like a cop, which would get our cop out in the open for the scum to be able to kill. If you were scum would you try and make a play like that, where you sacrifice one of your members in order to out some other power role? I don't know maybe, but personally I don't see your role as being particularly powerful even if you are telling the truth, because if we do what you say we have a bunch of people not targetting you, and a doctor not protecting the cop, and nobody is figuring this out because doctors don't get notices when they successfully protect and in the end we have the rest of the town killed off until it's just you and scum, and at that point town loses. or. YOu are scum and town still loses.

Besides that you claimed unkillable townie, that's SO scummy it makes me cry.
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:31 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

funny thing, SV. Your arguments are sounding like an echo of Pooky's arguments from Roald Dahl mafia. Since that was just scum scrambling around to get me lynched, I have to say I don't put much faith in your arguments. I'm not saying you don't have valid arguments, but when I see the same reasons that scum used to get me last game used against me now, I don't put much faith in their validity anymore. You know, this is why mods like to use roles that are hard to kill. They know that when they claim, everyone will think they are scum anyways. I mean, how much of a burden is it for the mafia to deal with a powerful role that they can't nightkill if all they have to do is safe it's too powerful so they must be scum, and just get them lynched? This is the true balancing factor for roles like this, and that's part of the reason I wanted to claim right away. I want to get my cards out on the table now so everyone knows what's up. If I was mafia, why would I claim a role exactly like the one I just had? On top of that, to do it on day 1 would be lunacy! Why not just sit back and play the game normally and then claim the powerful role once some pressure comes on me? This way, I've ensured myself a few days where I can play without pressure. Then, I could just claim the powerful role and get the town to follow me into the last few days. Even if they lynched me, I'd have survived several days already. By claiming now, I put myself at risk of being lynched early in the game. However, I think that's best for the town and for my role. We can make use of my role, so I don't want to waste my abilities by hiding in the background and not using my potential.
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:31 pm

Post by RangeroftheNorth »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:funny thing, SV. Your arguments are sounding like an echo of Pooky's arguments from Roald Dahl mafia. Since that was just scum scrambling around to get me lynched, I have to say I don't put much faith in your arguments.
You probably shouldn't be making unproven accusations about games that you're dead in which aren't finished yet.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:You know, this is why mods like to use roles that are hard to kill. They know that when they claim, everyone will think they are scum anyways. I mean, how much of a burden is it for the mafia to deal with a powerful role that they can't nightkill if all they have to do is safe it's too powerful so they must be scum, and just get them lynched?
The reason people will assume they're scum is because it would be an excellent claim for scum.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:f I was mafia, why would I claim a role exactly like the one I just had? On top of that, to do it on day 1 would be lunacy! Why not just sit back and play the game normally and then claim the powerful role once some pressure comes on me? This way, I've ensured myself a few days where I can play without pressure. Then, I could just claim the powerful role and get the town to follow me into the last few days. Even if they lynched me, I'd have survived several days already. By claiming now, I put myself at risk of being lynched early in the game.
As much as I don't believe MoS, this makes sense. Why would he have made this claim now if it wasn't true. Of course it might be so that he could make us think, "Why would he make this claim if it wasn't true?" THis is basically WIFOM.

I'm not willing to vote for MoS yet, but I will
FOS: MoS
for now.
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:58 am

Post by Crola »

Also, a fair warning to all players, as I've noticed, you guys are metagaming. Though there's nothing wrong with that you may
NOT
ruin other games in my game. As in, don't quote mod PMs from other games and whatnot. Since we keep talking about Phoebus's game, what I'm trying to say is, don't ruin Phoebus's game here.
None of you have done that so far, and I would prefer we keep it that way. Thanks.
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:21 am

Post by Adele »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm not saying you don't have valid arguments, but when I see the same reasons that scum used to get me last game used against me now, I don't put much faith in their validity anymore.
From that sentence, I can see that you think the arguments are valid, and that you think maybe they aren't. :?

Saying you "don't put much faith" in something is saying you don't trust it. But
you
know the truth, so it's not like you need to trust them. Obviously you don't like them. But whether they should be trusted is a question for the rest of us. After all, you aren't going to vote for yourself.

As to the more general point, just because the town's decision in one game didn't turn out well doesn't mean it wasn't the best decision to make, given what the town knew. In other words, maybe those arguments were effective because they really did make sense. Maybe they still make sense. Maybe they were unlucky in Roald Dahl, and maybe we are too.
That's always that chance when you're playing the odds, and I doubt there are any certainties in Mafia. What I'm trying to figure out is where the best odds lie. I'm not yet convinced that they lie in your death. I'm not yet convinced that they don't, either.
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:20 am

Post by CoolBot »

Adele, if a cop hasn't already investigated MoS to verify his claim, they will soon. There's very little reason for scum to make a claim before they need to, especially one so gauranteed to bring suspicion against them. I prefer to wait until a cop has info before moving on MoS. If you have investigated MoS, tell us so we can lynch him and move on.
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:53 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Adele wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm not saying you don't have valid arguments, but when I see the same reasons that scum used to get me last game used against me now, I don't put much faith in their validity anymore.
From that sentence, I can see that you think the arguments are valid, and that you think maybe they aren't. :?

Saying you "don't put much faith" in something is saying you don't trust it. But
you
know the truth, so it's not like you need to trust them. Obviously you don't like them. But whether they should be trusted is a question for the rest of us. After all, you aren't going to vote for yourself.

As to the more general point, just because the town's decision in one game didn't turn out well doesn't mean it wasn't the best decision to make, given what the town knew. In other words, maybe those arguments were effective because they really did make sense. Maybe they still make sense. Maybe they were unlucky in Roald Dahl, and maybe we are too.
That's always that chance when you're playing the odds, and I doubt there are any certainties in Mafia. What I'm trying to figure out is where the best odds lie. I'm not yet convinced that they lie in your death. I'm not yet convinced that they don't, either.
I worded that a little strangely, I guess. What I meant was that I don't put much faith in the protownness behind the statements, not their logic. I understand that from an outside viewpoint they could be seen as valid, but I don't trust the protownness of a person who uses them against a role like this, since I've already had to go through this once before and I am thoroughly convinced of the last person's guilt, too. If I'm wrong, you have my apologies, but I highly doubt that I am.
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:45 am

Post by Adele »

CoolBot wrote:Adele, if a cop hasn't already investigated MoS to verify his claim, they will soon. There's very little reason for scum to make a claim before they need to, especially one so gauranteed to bring suspicion against them. I prefer to wait until a cop has info before moving on MoS. If you have investigated MoS, tell us so we can lynch him and move on.
If I had anything definitive, I would have said. If anyone thinks I'm getting lynch-happy, I'd like to draw their attention to:
Adele wrote:I'm not saying, "let's lynch him now!", but I am more suspicious of him for having made that claim, I still don't quite get why he did so, and I'm not ready to let it go just yet. That's all I'm saying.
Adele wrote:What I'm trying to figure out is where the best odds lie. I'm not yet convinced that they lie in your death. I'm not yet convinced that they don't, either.
I've not exactly lead the call to bandwagon. Even still...
...yes, you make a good point; it
would
be nice to get corroboration or contradiction for what MoS claims. I guess I'm in favour of putting this aside for now.

I do have one more question, but it's not a challenge, merely a request for clarification:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I am thoroughly convinced of the last person's guilt, too. If I'm wrong, you have my apologies, but I highly doubt that I am.
Does "the last person" refer to someone in this game (that is, you believe someone to be guilty in this game)? If so, who?
If that's a stupid question, then I'm sorry, I just got confused by "If I'm wrong, you have my apologies".
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:46 am

Post by Crola »

With the impending festivities, for those who celebrate, I will not post a deadline if no one is talking, so don't worry. Also, if any of you are going away for the holiday (as in more than 48 hours), please notify me and Assasin.

Just a random note, when the game is over and done, I will put up pictures of the players so you can see what you looked like.
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:59 am

Post by warpdragon »

CoolBot wrote:Adele, if a cop hasn't already investigated MoS to verify his claim, they will soon.
How will they? They would be investigating themselves and get innocent, or he is a godfather and still come up innocent. I don't think that a non-gf scum would do that.
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[size=75][i]Edited by Warpdragon[/i][/size]
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:39 pm

Post by Shiryu »

warpdragon wrote:
CoolBot wrote:Adele, if a cop hasn't already investigated MoS to verify his claim, they will soon.
How will they? They would be investigating themselves and get innocent, or he is a godfather and still come up innocent. I don't think that a non-gf scum would do that.
That's why I had proposed the possibility that MoS could be godfather. Aside from that, a cop investigating MoS should get an innocent result if he is indeed what he says he is.
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:21 pm

Post by warpdragon »

What would happen if a role blocker targeted MoS? He would block himself, not letting him target MoS so he wouldn't have targeted MoS and would't be blocked so he could target MoS blocking himself... *head asplodes*
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[size=75][i]Edited by Warpdragon[/i][/size]
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:53 pm

Post by Fritzler »

I'd like to hear MoS's role name.
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:43 am

Post by CoolBot »

StrykkerVerde wrote:How will they? They would be investigating themselves and get innocent, or he is a godfather and still come up innocent.
That's possible, but how is that any different than any other investigation of a godfather?
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:45 am

Post by Fritzler »

CoolBot wrote:
StrykkerVerde wrote:How will they? They would be investigating themselves and get innocent, or he is a godfather and still come up innocent.
That's possible, but how is that any different than any other investigation of a godfather?
Well, now he wastes doctor protects and stuff.
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:56 am

Post by RangeroftheNorth »

We seem to be obsessing about MoS's role claim. While I find it suspicious, I'm not entirely inclined to disbelieve it. Yes, it is a powerful role, but I think a lot of the roles in this game are pretty powerful. I think that, for the time, I will believe MoS's claim. I'm most suspicious of StrykkerVerde who is not attempting to evaluate MoS's claim, but is simply trying to get him lynched by pointing all the reasons why his claim is"so scummy it makes him cry"
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:00 am

Post by Crola »

Coolbot will be gone from tonightish till Sunday.
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