Mini 494: Farscape Mafia - Game Over


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Post Post #750 (ISO) » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:14 am

Post by Setael »

So Mexal's taking the blame along with Ether and Patrick, eh? I'll own up to my fair share as well. I admit I got tunnel visioned about Eldarad - I have a bad habit of doing that lately. I agree that we have to no lynch today.

vote: No lynch
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Post Post #751 (ISO) » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:59 am

Post by Shanba »

Hi there. I'm your less female version of Ether. I'll be re-reading at some point in the future.
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Post Post #752 (ISO) » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:00 am

Post by Sarcastro »

Well, that was fast. I suppose I have another night to read, then.
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Post Post #753 (ISO) » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:12 am

Post by Eyceking »

It is day 4.

6 players remain: Mexal, Sarcastro, Setael, Shanba, d3sisted, soupfly.

4 votes are needed for a conviction or 3 to go to night.

3 votes for Night (soupfly, d3sisted, Setael)

3 players are not voting: Mexal, Sarcastro, Shanba.

-----

Because of the body slowly decomposing in the normal meeting room, you all agreed that it would not be right to discuss proceedings there. You all decided to go to bed and get some rest. And hopefully begin to wipe the memory of the horror Patrick's body left on you.

It is Night. PM me!

Night Deadline: Friday 9 November @ 22:00 GMT (Unless I go out and get drunk... in which case I don't know. Sometime Saturday - but PM choices must be in by the time mentioned here.)
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Post Post #754 (ISO) » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:09 pm

Post by Eyceking »

It's the morning after the day before. You feel refreshed. Ready to tackle anything. The relaxed day yesterday has helped you regain your sharpness and fatigue is a distant and forgotten problem. The Scarrans had been sapping not only the ship's morale, but also your own personal will to roll out of bed in the mornings. Ahh. Life is looking up.

You pack your stuff for the meeting and move towards the door to make your way there. As you move towards the door, a large, red blade pierces your door causing you to jump suddenly. Quick footsteps are heard on the other side of the door and before you can wrench the door open the assailant is gone, but the victim remains, neatly pinned to your door in a fashion not too dissimilar from Patrick, the previous victim.

But this one had been tortured. His arms and legs were covered in narrow, yet deep, precise cuts. He had suffered. Poor Mexal the
Grunt
. At least he was at peace now.

-----

It is day 5.

5 players remain: Sarcastro, Setael, Shanba, d3sisted, soupfly.

3 votes are needed for any action.

5 players are not voting: Sarcastro, Setael, Shanba, d3sisted, soupfly.
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Post Post #755 (ISO) » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:59 pm

Post by soupfly »

three townies, two scum. don't trust anybody cause 40% of us are scum.

i
vote=setael


if i'm wrong then two scum will indeed pile on and finish up the game...

on the other hand i don't think i'm wrong.
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Post Post #756 (ISO) » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:41 pm

Post by d3sisted »

Soupfly, stop. It's either sarcastro or shanba assassin.
Vote: shanba
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Post Post #757 (ISO) » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:02 pm

Post by Setael »

Unless soupfly is scum, I'm effectively at -1 since both scums could vote me and end the game. With both of you voting it looks like it all depends on who gets online faster. I know I'm innocent, and I think there's a good chance d3sisted is right about Shanba so I have no choice but to

vote: Shanba
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Post Post #758 (ISO) » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:58 pm

Post by d3sisted »

Yep, just as I thought...
Unvote;


Claim: Cop


Night 1: Predecessor didn't send in an action.
Night 2: Saetel is innocent. (hence my adamant "gut-feeling" insists that Saetel is town)
Night 3: Mexal is innocent.
Night 4: Soupfly is innocent.

Now, I realize one of those 3 could be traitor, but that is extremely low priority right now. All I know is, Sarcastro and/or Shanba is assassin, and I am having a difficult time choosing between them. Judging by the speed at which Saetel jumped onto Shanba, it is more likely that Saetel is traitor and Shanba is town.

Whelp, that's my story. Unvote and discuss, please.
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Post Post #759 (ISO) » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:35 pm

Post by soupfly »

unvote setael
i am sofa king!
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Post Post #760 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:11 am

Post by Setael »

Unvote


With soupfly throwing a vote on me so lightly, I knew it was possible both mafias would vote me and I'd be dead by morning. The only hope I had was if soupfly was mafia, which would mean one of them was voting me already. I know I'm innocent so I had to choose who's more likely to be scum between the 2 d3sisted named. Based on ether and Rhapsody's play on the eldarad wagon I chose ether (Shanba). I thought my only chance to avoid a sure mislynch (me) was for one of the innocent players to vote Shanba as well before the mafia had a chance to vote me and effectively end the game.

This actually happened in the first newbie game I ever played but it was me that made the mistake soupfly made. I voted too lightly and both mafias jumped on and the game was over before morning.

Now that we have time, I need to reread before deciding between Shanba and Sarcasto.
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Post Post #761 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:44 am

Post by Shanba »

Woah wtf. Why am I being voted? You people are nuts :S

Have some time, will get to reading.
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Post Post #762 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:09 am

Post by Sarcastro »

Okay, well, I have no idea what's going on, but nobody's counterclaimed.

Vote: Shanba
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Post Post #763 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:10 am

Post by Sarcastro »

Oh, wait, "may or may not be in the game".

Unvote


I'm going to have to think about this.
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Post Post #764 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:27 am

Post by Shanba »

Right. Reread the thread at last.
Vote Sarcastro
, cause I believe d3sisted's claim. I'd say that Setael is a fairly likely traitor, if there is one (which there probably is - the balance requires one with the weak doc/cop both being info roles). Soupfly's tunnel vision strikes me as pro-town. I don't often see scum being tunnel-visioned like that. Setael gives me no such feeling. Reading the thread too, I'm never really clear who she suspects - perhaps it's because I'm not reading carefully (which is a distinct possibility) but it's still kinde eh. She only really gets involved when she becomes a suspect.

This post seems to containt the most coherent and insteresting case against me, so I'll have a look at it.
soupfly wrote:
Not making sense!?!?!? Oh say it ain't so!

Ether Scum because:
1) "Good Job" Tell on Day One. The "scum are more careful then town" argument is WIFOM at best. Even if they are careful they still make mistakes and that was a clear one right there. Simply put there was absolutely no way a townie would have written that.
There's no reason for scum to say "Good Job", unless you believe it is buddying up to thin_man, which is a possibility (but not one anyone has brought up yet, unless I missed something) - but if that were the case, why kill him n1? The vote on AlyG was when she was not really a top suspect. As many people have said, this does not discount me being scum - yet it doesn't imply that she is, either. It's a nulltell (or a mild towntell).

Why do you believe it was a mistake? I see no reason to think it was a mistake. As you later say, this is entirely consistent with Ether's style of addressing people. It's only a mistake if it's something she would legitimately regard as suspicious herself and accidentally missed when going over her post. Her responses indicate this isn't so. If she did believe it was scummy, she would not be as confused about people attacking her.

2) Ether's "it was tongue-in-cheek" respond to this pressure is ludicrous. I don't see anything tongue in cheek about it and even ThinMan was taken aback by it. plus, this is forum mafia where all we have to go on is written text. if you want to make a funny then add a :D or a ;) or a :P
Eh. Essentially what you're getting to is an argument over semantics and the way of expressing yourself. I've seen mislynches based on these sorts of semantics arguments before. People don't always talk the same way. Again, I note that you decided this was down to how Ether expresses herself later.
3) Inconsistent stance with regards to voting where your mouth is on Elderad (as opposed to her problem with my not voting AlyG).
Could you elaborate somewhat? This is turning into a long post, and I don't have forever to check through where you elaborated (although I vaguely remember you elaborating somewhere.)
4) Contribution to scum hunting has been decreasing throughout the game. She started off very confident and gung-ho and has been regressing into someone offering bland insights into the game. As the game has gone on, i've gotten more and more into it because I'm starting to get a feel for the players and the flow of the game. I think the same applies for d3ssisted. Most of us are offering better and better analysis as we got almost 650 posts to analyze but they seem to have less and less to say. I believe some call this "lurking in plain sight".
This is a ridiculous assertion. Sure, Ether stops offering cases against people. But she keeps listing suspects and talking about who she feels is scummy. She's trying to puzzle things out given the info available in the thread rather than clogging it up by creating new info (which is essentially what cases do). She also doesn't seem to feel as strongly about anyone as she did earlier, when she was making cases - which is fine. There's no reason to make cases unless you are convinced someone is scum, which her attempts at piecing things together implies.
5) I'm very bothered by her attempts to blow off suspicion against her as being irrational and not making any sense. Her last statement about "how can you guys be letting this happen" is actually kinda funny in a sad sort of way.
Some of your arguments don't really make any sense, such as the "good job" thing. Others have more merit, but aren't particularly strong or telling. I don't think she blew off the suspicion: she did defend herself, but eh. That's a matter of opinion, I guess.
So basically there's the case. Rhapsody had some additional points to add which I won't add to my own because I didn't pick up on them. How are Mexal and Ether not able to understand this line of reasoning is beyond me. Disagree if you will but don't say that I don't make sense.
I will pick up Rhapsody's case from here.
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Post Post #765 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:19 am

Post by Shanba »

Rhapsody wrote:3. Ether - Ohhhh Ether. I knew I had a bad feeling about her. And since I went back and re-read, now I think I have a grasp of what it was. Look at her voting record for day 2. First she voted for Tar and kept her vote there for a while, at the same time that she was attacking soupfly, in fact, attacking soupfly much more strongly than where she had her vote.
Ether wrote: I don't really have objections to either the Yagami- or Tarvotes. Personally, I was set to vote the latter, but it was somehow lodged in my memory that AlyG had voted him instead of Yagami. Eh, I'm still gonna vote: Tarhalindur for those unexplained/inexplicable leaps.

I'm uncomfortable with Soupfly, especially if Tar's scum. His last post just yells at AlyG and suggests that he roleclaim; Soupfly doesn't even have the decency to place a vote like our other candidates. Most of his posts seem centered on strategy and generics; there are a few calls for action that he doesn't take initiative on. The one that really addresses players addresses them all at once, without really indicating who's where beyond the obvious. A brief skim says he was more proactive in his newbie game (town).
Here, it's clear that Ether suspects Soupfly more. And yet, it's true that a lot of day 2 Ether was arguing with Soupfly. Why is this? There are a few reasons.

1: She was not the primary mover behind the Tar wagon (she did not build the case against him, eldarad did that) and as such she did not defend the case (if you note, in an argument between two players it is normally the person who makes the case against the person who the case was aimed arguing. This isn't necesarily a good thing, but rarely do other players take up the case and argue it for them. It does happen, it's just not necessary)

2: She was the primary mover against soupfly. She may not have had him as her number 1, but she definitely was the first to express suspicion against him. as such, she has a duty to defend her case.

3: Soupfly attacked her. This is the major one explaining why she was concentrating on soupfly despite voting Tar - she is responding to soupfly's attack on her.

4: Finally, Tarhalindur did not give anything worth responding to. So even if Ether hadn't been dsitracted by soupfly and had been the primary mover in the early Tar wagon, where was nothing to respond to. As such, the attacks by soupfly become more pressing to respond to.
When Tar was at 4 votes, and the pressure was heated up, Ether moved to Yag in the -same- post where she states that she feels she has a good case against soupfly.
[quote="Ether]
Soupfly, I voted a scumbag who wasn't going to be the obvious lynch at the time (as you emphasized) and, whether it was intended as playfully as I've maintained or not (and I'm not really sure what else it could be), congratulated someone else on his wagon. I'm not sure what you're actually accusing me of, and I think you only singled this out because I didn't bother with it.

I still think that my case on you is fine, and that I had the last word on it: you harangued me about metagaming and that instead of responding to it.

unvote; vote: YagamiLight--I hadn't noticed the semantics of the exchange D3sisted brought up in 326, and to a lesser degree agree that his asking for the votecount on himself was overdoing it.

Independently, I'd say that my list was Yagami/Soupfly/Tar, but if Yagami came up scum I'd probably switch the second two to Setael/Eldarad. I don't on impulse see Yagami as paired with Soupfly or Tar.

Eldarad's comment on Soupfly/me just irritates me. I'm not sure how to elaborate here except that it's a belated post and I can't see the purpose of the comment, or who he's attacking or whether he's attacking anyone or if he thinks there's anything worthwhile whatsoever in the spat. Was that paragraph quite lucid? [/quote]It's true, she notes that she's still suspicious of soupfly, and she feels she's won the argument. But she also notes that she missed something about YL. In no way does she suggest she is more suspicious of Soupfly than YL, which is what this whole case is predicated upon. She also notes that she thinks YL/Tar/soupfly make a good scumteam (this is slightly odd, given it would mean there are 4 scum. I suppose she means 2 of those make a good scumteam)
This put Yag at 4 votes and Tar at 3. Now, when this happened, I was bothered because I felt very strongly that Tar was scum and seeing Ether hop to another wagon made me wonder if she was trying to shift pressure elsewhere. Then there was her reaction to Yag's claim (which I STILL find suspicious) and her hop off of that wagon and onto Setael (again, instead of soupfly).
Huh. I just realised Ether responded to all of this already. I'll keep on with this as a useful exercise though. This quote explains Ether's move to Setael:
Ether wrote:[quote="Patrick]
Ether, do you think Satael's late move against Yagamilight after I did could be a bus? If Yagamilight is town I think I can only see a mild case for Satael being scum.
Yes. My vote is partially another way of expressing my dislike for Yagami. I also feel that she's been just going with the flow all game and molding said flow into an agenda (looking back at her 283 attack on Tar, it contained both clear lapses and what are either double standards or outright lies), but yeah, I looked through her posts and found that because of the first bit. [/quote]By this time, note, she's not even pushin Soupfly any more - the argument that he was her top suspect is difficult to maintain given her pre-occupation with other players.
As for the claim: I admit that I would not have responded the same way to the claim, yet Ether has a plausible explanation:
Ether wrote: Stupid, at least. I'm paranoid toward claims from people I don't like (the déjà vu referenced was from Face-to-Face; we lynched a roleblocker-claiming scum emphasizing that there shouldn't be a counterclaim and I still had a good taste in my mouth from that). The belated Patrick-protection claim didn't help; I'd have protected Thin_Man or gone for someone middle-of-the-road I wanted to confirm.
The Deja-Vu comment doesn't make any sense unless this explanation was true - which would very much explain her not wanting a counterclaim. If she felt she could lynch scum without outing the weak doc, so much the better.
From the perspective I'm looking at it now, and Ether's actions today, I'm inclined to believe that Ether's voting the way she did was an intentional ploy to stay off of any lynch that happened. At any rate, placing your prime suspicions on one person while voting others is just flat out scummy.
Your theory is that Ether is deliberately trying to avoid being on any pro-town lynch wagon. This is more than a little bit stretched as theories go.

First off, her attacking Tarhalindur and then unvoting him before lynch hits would negate the purpose of this plan, as she'd still be partly responsible for the lynch. Seconf off, using this as an explanation of her vote for YL doesn't make any sense - whether she was voting YL or Tar they would both be at 4 votes. Either one would be equally near a lynch. Finally, this is incompatible with your other theory - that Ether was avoiding voting Soupfly - as a vote on Soupfly would be a very easy place to leave the vote without any real threat of him being lynched while still making sense in the context of her play. In other words, if what you theorise is true, Ether should have been voting soupfly.
Rhapsody wrote:
Again, today Ether doesn't seem to want to put her vote where her mouth is and all I see is excuses. The lynch -1 thing I don't really buy, especially since Patrick unvoted due to exactly that. Waiting for me to make my analysis is also suspicious because if she genuinely felt that eldarad was scum, she shouldn't -need- my analysis to make her decision.
Ether wrote:If Eldarad gets lynched while I'm expressing my support, I'll own up to my part in it if he's town and congratulate his physical wagoners if he isn't. Promise. (Hell...if I join Eldscum's wagon this late, I wouldn't try riding on it. Latevotes are just filler; I already missed the action.) Tar's different: by the end, I kept clearly stating that I was uneasy with the Tarwagon, I was waffling on Tar, why does Tar remind me of Jack from Royal Family so hard? (And even then--at no point did I actually seek credit. This is stupid.)
This is Ether's spiritvote thing, and it was done on Oct 15. Rhapsody's case was made on Oct 19. Why do I note this? Because it invalidates Rhap's point. If Ether were trying to avoid looking dirty by not being on a townie wagon, then this post completely blows that plan out of the water. Why? Let's think it over. Imagine if the next day Ether says "Oh, I wasn't on the wagon. You can't blame me." or something to that effect (probably more subtle). Any sane townie is going to quote this post by Ether and she's screwed. As such, it is incompatible with Rhapsody's theory. And the dates prove that Rhapsody's theory did not pressure Ether into making this post.

Anyways vote: Ether
[/quote]
Final part is examining the scumminess of Rhapsody (may not be finished today)
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Post Post #766 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:20 am

Post by Shanba »

aw damnit. The tags are all broken. Anyway, as a quick note,Ether's response to Rhapsody is her post 20.
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Post Post #767 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:34 am

Post by Setael »

soupfly wrote:three townies, two scum. don't trust anybody cause 40% of us are scum.

ivote=setael

if i'm wrong then two scum will indeed pile on and finish up the game...

on the other hand i don't think i'm wrong.
I really can't see a townie throwing on a vote in lylo before any discussion at all, knowing that both mafia could add their votes and end the game. The only person I see doing this is mafia. Even in my newest newbie game when I voted wrong and the scum jumped on and won, it was after a lot of discussion. I couldn't believe he had voted me like that right off, and I thought the game was as good as over. Now that I think about it, he would not have done that as Town, and is almost definitely a Traitor.

Still need to reread. I replaced into a couple new games recently so it might take me awhile.
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Post Post #768 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:12 am

Post by soupfly »

i've played enough games with shanba to know when he's scum.

vote: shanba


@saetal: you're really way off, and i wonder why you're even bothering with such analysis...maybe my initial read was right. whether i'm scum or not (and only scum i could be is traitor) is irrelevant today. what we are trying to determine is whether shanba or sarcastro is scum (assassin). that's the only play today. if we get lucky and one of them is assassin then the traitor (if there is one) doesn't matter too much cause he can't NK. i recommend you focus on them today.
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Post Post #769 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:49 am

Post by Shanba »

Uh, you've only seen me dead as scum, and in those games it was for crap reasons. So :\
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Post Post #770 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:49 am

Post by Shanba »

Well, not so much crap reasons, but you get my point.
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Post Post #771 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:49 pm

Post by Shanba »

Soupfly, you simply voting me because you believe you have a meta on me is saddening. I'd hate to come into the game only to be quicklynched and lose. That would suck majorly.
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Post Post #772 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:52 pm

Post by d3sisted »

soupfly wrote:@saetal: you're really way off, and i wonder why you're even bothering with such analysis...maybe my initial read was right. whether i'm scum or not (and only scum i could be is traitor) is irrelevant today. what we are trying to determine is whether shanba or sarcastro is scum (assassin). that's the only play today. if we get lucky and one of them is assassin then the traitor (if there is one) doesn't matter too much cause he can't NK. i recommend you focus on them today.
Yeah, Soupfly has the right idea.

Anyway, the thing about Shanba is, I look back at his predecessors' posts and I see Kilroy... I absolutely cannot see a scum sticking his neck out as far as Kilroy has done. Then again, he was new, so Iunno.
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Post Post #773 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:58 pm

Post by Eyceking »

It is day 5.

5 players remain: Sarcastro, Setael, Shanba, d3sisted, soupfly.

3 votes are needed for any action.

1 vote for Sarcastro (Shanba)
1 vote for Shanba (soupfly)

3 players are not voting: Sarcastro, Setael, d3sisted,.
What are you pressing select for? You don't got time to make a profile!
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Post Post #774 (ISO) » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:44 pm

Post by soupfly »

@shanba: unfortunately you replaced in for ether who was pretty high on my scum list on Day 3.

confirm vote: shanba


@setael: chill with the OMGUS. yes i did vote you but i was also not expecting a cop claim. i should have waited a little more but c'est la vie. if shanba turns up scum then sarcastro may be the best choice for scum buddy. remember that it was kilroy/ether/shanba and rhapsody/sarcastro who had that huge fight in the first couple of pages. i've written before that it seemed staged...maybe it was. in any case atm we're both confirmed townies and we have no certainty that there even is a traitor in the game.
i am sofa king!
stupid...
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