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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:35 pm
by MegAzumarill
In post 773, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:you leave SK alive because the mafia have to kill the SK before the SK kills them
SK is just as dangerous as a vig to the mafia side
Aren't most sks bp though?
I agree that sks can be anti mafia, but they definitely arent pro town
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:36 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
the last time I played with an SK he shot the most townread member of the mafia and it was glorious
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:36 pm
by Kazyan
In post 769, Gamma Emerald wrote:the fact kaz did it apropos of nothing is probably a sign he's just giving unfiltered thoughts, [...]
I'm probably gonna put my filter back on for the next game I'm in, or later in this one, or now
I've been trying to correct my crappy Day 1 play (iI know you think I was fine in That Time I Shot You When I Was A Vigilante but it still feels like every second thing I said got a big "??????" response) and well-respected players suggested to unfilter myself in the Newbie queue, because I was getting read as scummy for being stiff and manufactured, but edited posts are how I roll
But now I post without a filter and people learn why the filter is there, and also I rage harder because guess what else happens when you edit a post
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:38 pm
by the worst
In post 775, MegAzumarill wrote: In post 773, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:you leave SK alive because the mafia have to kill the SK before the SK kills them
SK is just as dangerous as a vig to the mafia side
Aren't most sks bp though?
I agree that sks can be anti mafia, but they definitely arent pro town
full bp is kinda wild, one-shot is probably more common
this is a weird tangent. pooky is also generally correct. groupscum is significantly more dangerous in earlygame.
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:40 pm
by MegAzumarill
In post 778, the worst wrote: In post 775, MegAzumarill wrote: In post 773, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:you leave SK alive because the mafia have to kill the SK before the SK kills them
SK is just as dangerous as a vig to the mafia side
Aren't most sks bp though?
I agree that sks can be anti mafia, but they definitely arent pro town
full bp is kinda wild, one-shot is probably more common
this is a weird tangent. pooky is also generally correct. groupscum is significantly more dangerous in earlygame.
I'd think it'd be the opposite, but doesnt really matter either way.
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:40 pm
by Gamma Emerald
okay yeah I had some worries at one point but Kaz is hard town for me
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:46 pm
by House
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:47 pm
by Gamma Emerald
calling it like I see it
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:53 pm
by House
Just got off work. Done a skim ketchup.
If I had to jump wagons right this instant, I'd probably land on Meg simply because I don't like the others, but I wouldn't be happy about landing there either because I just don't have any other reason to be on it, of the top of my head.
I'll cogitate on this a bit over the weekend when I have more free time.
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:54 pm
by the worst
In post 779, MegAzumarill wrote: In post 778, the worst wrote: In post 775, MegAzumarill wrote: In post 773, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:you leave SK alive because the mafia have to kill the SK before the SK kills them
SK is just as dangerous as a vig to the mafia side
Aren't most sks bp though?
I agree that sks can be anti mafia, but they definitely arent pro town
full bp is kinda wild, one-shot is probably more common
this is a weird tangent. pooky is also generally correct. groupscum is significantly more dangerous in earlygame.
I'd think it'd be the opposite, but doesnt really matter either way.
little abstract, but i'd posit two points (super briefly, and then end the convo because you're right, it doesn't actually matter).
- town winrate tends to be significantly higher in semi-open setups when those setups include a serial killer. skilled scum will assert themselves into a position in the gamestate where they're hard to remove via elimination. in the absence of a vigilante, they won't be removed via night kill. removing those scum is anti-groupscum, pro-town, pro-sk.
- generally speaking, groupscum control 3/13 of the dialouge on d1. in the worst case scenario you can be looking at a situation where scum control 3/7 of the conversation by ELo on day four with one kill per night. serial killers are harder to discern from town in the abstract, but they have significantly less control over the day game.
anyway, this is probably most a philosophical conversation and we can agree to land on opposite sides if that's how it is. where are you at in this game?
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:55 pm
by Gamma Emerald
In post 381, unwnd wrote: In post 377, the worst wrote: In post 373, unwnd wrote: In post 371, the worst wrote: In post 368, unwnd wrote:I asked about TM2020 because I thought the way you brought yourself into the game as town is different from what I'm seeing here, but I've also decided that Mafia has a dependent factor that can change based on mood. My own twiddling is representative of this, but I just find you coming in here with such PROVOCATIVE and CHOICE words like kazoo being town as a leading wagon to be odd. You didn't think Kaz was in any immediate danger, yeah? The game is still at a phase that you seem to recognize where people are fishing and making halfbaked plays.
i think you think that i think you think that i think about things more than i think you know i think about things, you know?
So in short, yes?
re meta/alignment/mood, that's cool, i'm glad you feel that way
I did choose to be provocative. what of it?
how do you think it relates to my tm2020 play and why is that an alignment factor?
I don't really think Kaz is in immediate peril no. yes this game is on the precipice of getting interesting but scared of making the plunge.
I commend you for being the
change
this game needs, but I don't know if it was needed. Kaz is being strange. A lot of people talked about it. My own take is that they're fidgety and their opinions are overwrought.
A bit of meta takes: Kaz is not the most orderly player. I've played about 2-3 games with them now and I never find much method to why they do things. Kaz's own response to this is that people think they're 'evil' early, but like. Nothing they've done I think is necessarily evil? I don't know why they chose that description because I would describe them as 'aloof' personally. Typically what people look for in townies are those who are willing to be unguarded and give out their opinions. They've doubled down on themselves and made a minor case on Pooky and called them an SK. I think this is all ridiculous, especially so because it came back-to-back-to-back. Kaz gave themselves no set period of time where they just let their opinions lie, and instead just kept moving along. I am not a fan of this because readlists to me are done because you want people to take them in and see how people react to them. If the readlist they gave was of import, why does it seem like it is not really determining anything at this rate. It came so early and without warning and now it seems like Kaz doesn't even care and is just on to the next thing.
this seems like decent thoughts for the most part, but reads list can be done for any number of reasons. My most common are to put my own thoughts in order, force myself into more concrete stances when I think it's called for, or to display current headspace. A notable time I dislike making read lists is when people say my reads are unclear; they're commonly not as unclear as people say, folks just can't bother to look for them.
also kinda liking tw as of this page
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:59 pm
by Loftwing
Hey Pooky, are you still scumreading The Worst? If so, why?
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:04 pm
by Gamma Emerald
pending response from dwlee to my questions I think this is a solid vote
In post 418, Dwlee99 wrote:Kidamn and Kazyan should be the two competing wagons cause one of those two is actually probably scum if my vibe check is right
I was gonna ask what this vibe check was but you answered on the same page
In post 424, Dwlee99 wrote:It's that I feel like Kazyan is town, and I have felt like the wagon on him was also mostly town. So then we should be looking at who is on the sidelines (like kidamn who still has done nothing).
I also think regardless of Kazyan's alignment that scum are inactive right now.
kidamn had literally flaked at this point, do you still stand by this "standing on the sidelines" accusation?
and like, you framed your vote as poe initially when the actual logic had no poe involved at all
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:13 pm
by Gamma Emerald
In post 425, unwnd wrote:Just realize Dann flattered me by going ' a player like unwnd'
Golly gee have I hit the big leagues? The upper pantheon?
until demonstrated otherwise you're just a beeboy clone for me
In post 432, the worst wrote:I probably agree, with the caveat that threatening scum are present but not active in advancing the game. Dannflor is also the deepwolf but that's not super relevant right now.
dann's play feels a bit like the newbie me and ythan we're scum in so far, especially with calling me and navi teamed
In post 449, Kazyan wrote:Why would you not vote for the person who you think is Mafia
Like I think Pooky would do this even as town (I still think he's SK/delighting in being the villain; nice crumb), but Dann?
do you legit think dann is evil, if so why
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:19 pm
by Gamma Emerald
In post 457, Kazyan wrote:I'd buy the story about god-scumhunter Pooky killing all the scum for us and then dying, but he's tunneled on me so that's clearly not what's happening here
lolno
why would anyone kill the person they're tunneling?
In post 459, House wrote: In post 458, Kazyan wrote: In post 456, House wrote:I don't buy this.
It's day 1. How do you differentiate group!scum from solo!scum?
Planting shade so indiscriminately on everyone and anyone, basically, which means he doesn't care who dies, just
someone
. I guess he could be a Survivor?
Distancing is a thing.
Not all shade is created equal.
100% this
>_<
bad juju from this, big time
In post 473, Loftwing wrote:I'm sorry that I haven't been very serious in this game, I've been devoting most of my energy in another game. I'd be willing to answer any questions you might have to ask me now, and I'll try to answer them satisfactory.
you again seem to be worrying about things nobody is pressuring you for!
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:20 pm
by MegAzumarill
I like Dannfloor and Dwlee for town. Maybe a side of Unwd.
Dannfloor is very succinct, not very driving, but reading his ISO it seems pretty obvious they are critically reading the game.
Unwd is townread for similar reasons, they seem to be actively scumhunting but from the main fray rather than the sidelines. Ill throw them a TL for now.
Dwlee seems to have the same impressions as me for a lot of the game so far.
I can see Loftwing as scum with either gamma or pooky off of associatives (mounting a defensish manuever for both out of purely mechanical reasons rather than off of reads).
Rest is very meh. I'll let you know if I forgot something.
Rest is meh.
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:21 pm
by Gamma Emerald
VOTE: megazumarill
I'm still reading but I think I have enough of a scumpool that I want to actually break my habits and vote pre-being fully caught up
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:21 pm
by Gamma Emerald
In post 790, MegAzumarill wrote:I can see Loftwing as scum with either gamma or pooky off of associatives (mounting a defensish manuever for both out of purely mechanical reasons rather than off of reads).
el em ay oh
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:22 pm
by MegAzumarill
In post 791, Gamma Emerald wrote:VOTE: megazumarill
I'm still reading but I think I have enough of a scumpool that I want to actually break my habits and vote pre-being fully caught up
:C
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:23 pm
by Gamma Emerald
and why aren't you voting loftwing if that's your core suspicion out of (loftwing/gamma/pooky)?
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:23 pm
by MegAzumarill
In post 794, Gamma Emerald wrote:and why aren't you voting loftwing if that's your core suspicion out of (loftwing/gamma/pooky)?
I think the associative is there if loftwing is scum.
It doesn't mean that I think he is more likely to be scum.
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:25 pm
by the worst
probably agree that unwnd's position in the game is not intuitive for scum. i don't, like..scumread loftwing at all though
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:27 pm
by MegAzumarill
In post 796, the worst wrote:probably agree that unwnd's position in the game is not intuitive for scum. i don't, like..scumread loftwing at all though
Disagree with the first sentence, agree with the second.
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:28 pm
by Gamma Emerald
putting a pin in this
In post 486, Kazyan wrote: In post 477, Gorkington wrote:kaz is probably an end of day kinda wagon and people want to do the whole think we can sort the entire playerlist D1, get to page 100 and hate ourselves thing.
which like yeah fair, been there and done that for seven years of mafia.
I'm not gonna be the elimination. A whole bunch of people flashwagoned me, threw everything they had into nitpicking every single post, suddenly realized that no one else was buying it, and then everyone gave awkward excuses for switching to [spins bottle] Dwlee. You can't do a blatantly scum-driven wagon like that twice in one day phase but that's none of my business
what are the common votes between kaz and dwlee?
In post 491, MURDERCAT wrote: In post 224, Kazyan wrote:Based on how quickly the wagon formed on me and the deal with Gork and Dann, there's maybe one scum on my wagon?
VOTE: House?
What do you mean re Gork and Dann and why do you conclude House is the scum?
these feel like loaded questions
In post 496, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:murdercat when r u going to live up to your paragon title and catch me some bad guys
i need you to carry me just once bro
the one time mcat got close to solving the game day 1 you (and I) miseliminated him
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:30 pm
by Gamma Emerald
In post 795, MegAzumarill wrote: In post 794, Gamma Emerald wrote:and why aren't you voting loftwing if that's your core suspicion out of (loftwing/gamma/pooky)?
I think the associative is there if loftwing is scum.
It doesn't mean that I think he is more likely to be scum.
yeah this is transparently trying to dodge putting actual pressure on loftwing
meg/dwlee/loftwing is the scumteam