Mini 1348- Dragon Ball Z: Saiyan Saga Mafia (Game Over)

[pappums rat]

Votecount 1.26

Yates - 5 (Slandaar, Benmage, syndromeofadown, Agent_Ireland, MagnaofIllusion)
Acosmist - 1 (mcqueen)
Agent_Ireland - 2 (snifit, JohnnyFarrar)
snifit - 2 (BK201, PeregrineV)
syndromeofadown - 1 (Thor665)
Benmage - 1 (Yates)

Not voting - (Acosmist)

PeregrineV is V/LA until Tuesday.

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is 1 AM EST on July 11, 2012.

[Yates]

This isn't to Thor in particular - he just had the easiest quote for me to respond to.

I can agree with an issue of thinking it's silly he thinks a nameclaim counter wouldn't happena nd a cop claim would but...how does that make him scum as opposed to just derp?

Quick question; how does a nameclaim counter happen if scum are given fake names?

Spoiler:

Answer: it wouldn't happen.

Using your Superman Mafia example, my initial thought on Slandaar's claim was Slandaar is Lex Luthor [for example] and was given the fake claim of Superman then claimed Superman, VT. If Superman was his fakeclaim, NO ONE ELSE IS SUPERMAN so NO ONE ELSE WILL COUNTER.

Also, does his roleclaim even make sense with his nameclaim? Would SUPERMAN be a VT in Superman Mafia?? In my head I'm saying "Slandaar is either lying about being Superman *or* is lying about his role." The fact that he gave his role to begin with was... well.. weird. I actually would have given him much less of a hard time about it with a partial claim. Still, I was willing to unvote him because there apparently is PROBABLY a Goku in this game [as there would PROBABLY be a Superman role in Superman mafia] and no one has countered. I still don't like the claim and I'm still suspicious of it and that needed to be recorded.

I'm basically claiming Jimmy Olsen, VT. *I* know Jimmy Olsen is in the game AND *my role* is VT. So this adds to my suspicion of Slandaar's claim. Here's a simple test:

look at your role name. Now look at your character name. Does your *role* match your *character*??

If it does NOT, feel free to vote for me as I am clearly derping and should take a swag at Road to Rome. If it *DOES MATCH* then you need to take a hard look at the bs arguments people are throwing at me and wonder who is allowing them to stick.

To continue the analogy, Acosmist claimed to be Lois Lane, Cop. Even if Acosmist was given the fake name of Lois Lane, the fact that he claimed to be a COP makes his claim much harder to fake since - you know - we PROBABLY have a cop.

[syndromeofadown]

@above I believe you posted this in the wrong game. This is DBZ mafia not superman

Well, for starters - I am voting you right now.
Secondly, I actually didn't really want to shoot you.
Thirdly, one and two should be enough.

Okay well you don't actually expect me to vote myself now, do you? Say you had a second vote that couldn't be used on me, who would it be?

[Yates]

So here is what I am thinking ...

We've already been through 3 claims today (one of which IIRC was preemptive). That pool includes 2 VTs. I don't know if on a Day that has gone on this long it is productive to force another claim with deadline looming. Gut instinct is that the best play from Town's perspective should be to lynch between the VT claims on the basis of who each player thinks is scummiest.

And *you* are saying *others* are derping? This is TERRIBLE logic. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe both claims are true? I don't know what *your* role pm said but *mine* suggests using my vote to lynch SCUM is the right thing to do in order to advance my win condition.

Benmage is scum. Let's advance.

PE: @SoD - I sincerely hope that was a lulz post. Sincerely.

[Thor665]

You do know that only the person you quote reads any posts longer than 2 sentences, right?

Unvote: syndromeofadown
Vote: Benmage

I'm not even sure if I'm sheeping Yates or he's sheeping me.

@Yates - what is your Benmage issue and when did you first state it?

[Thor665]

@Syndrome - and sheep onto the Benmage wagon, let's at least make people show opinion on the Yates wagon vs. that one.

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: benmage

lets see where this goes

[JohnnyFarrar]

I've already said I dislike the Yates wagon, but I don't think I've seen anything on Benmage... Why the votes?

[Thor665]

Gut and dislike of the Yates wagon.

[Thor665]

Also, I think the other two are just sheeping me, so...::shrug::

[JohnnyFarrar]

I think I'll sit this one out, then...

[Thor665]

Why is AI scum?
Should I bring my sheep over there?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Have you read his ISO? 20 posts, not one of them a bit useful.

He doesn't join the game until 6 pages in, votes psyche AFTER he requests a replacement (for "vote hopping"), votes yates for being sarcastic, gets into that whole goku debacle, votes yates again claiming we're close to the deadline, gives a

sad

case in 767, and that's it. Literally all he's done.

I'd vote him if I was you.

[JohnnyFarrar]

the link in the above post should read "676" not "767". the link leads to the right place, I just typed it wrong.

[Agent_Ireland]

Gut and dislike of the Yates wagon.

Any other reasons? Any quotes?

[Thor665]

He doesn't join the game until 6 pages in, votes psyche AFTER he requests a replacement (for "vote hopping"), votes yates for being sarcastic, gets into that whole goku debacle, votes yates again claiming we're close to the deadline, gives a

sad

case in 767, and that's it. Literally all he's done.

To boil down your accusation;

He entered the game slow.
Votes for reasons you don't agree with even though he does give reasons.
Doesn't make cases to your standards.

To boil it down further;

You think he's a bad player.

Why is he scum though? I

get

that he's a weak player. I've said as much. I AGREE with that case...but I don't see how that makes him scum particularly. You're pointing at playstyle and trying to tell me it's alignment based. I guess maybe if you see Psyche/Snifit and Yates as super obvious town that he's trying to mislynch without much effort you could argue that as the case but...really? I've got strong town reads on both of them and even I don't see it as that likely a motive. I think he's playing to the best of his ability and is doing so regardless of his alignment - so I don't see any of that helping me spot scum or town.

This isn't a newbie, man, c'mon.

Gut and dislike of the Yates wagon.

Any other reasons? Any quotes?

Quotes?
QUOTES!?!

Oh dear gawd, what the hell do quotes have to do with making a case or not?
If I had

magical other reasons

I would have said them and not presented a case on that level in the first place. How about you read the thread - I've already supplied a quote and a discussion of my issues with it as regards Benmage. I even asked MoI about it and he was able to respond to it because he (gasp) reads the thread (which, incidentaly, is generally considered a pro-town move)

Go find my presented issue with Benmage and give me your thoughts on it.
Then tell me whether you agree or disagree with my push on that wagon.
While we're at it - as a supporter of the Yates wagon, maybe you want to address how much mud I'm flinging at it? Do you think I'm his desperate scumbuddy? Do you think my reasons for disliking the wagon are silly? Can you easily sum up his scumminess in a way that is clear and functional?

This isn't a newbie, man, c'mon.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I guess you got a point there. But, I still don't like the Yates wagon, and I'm equally unhappy with the little snifit wagon that's forming, so I'll just UNVOTE:

[Yates]

This is mafia not whichever character is strongest gets the best pr. If that were the case scum couldnt fake claim.

I am Goku
I am VT

Yates is scum.

That is

terrible

reasoning. By that logic all I have to do is

claim: Krillin

and I'm Town if I'm not counter claimed?

NOOOOooooo

You're missing it. He prematurely claimed VT.

VT

. See:

Look lynch me I am VT Goku

THIS Isn'T JUST A FLAVOR CLAIM. Had it been solely a flavor claim it would mean dung shit.

But :
A: Premature VT claims in my experience more often than not come from town.
B: If Goku is a scum safeclaim it would be an EASY POWERROLE TO Fakeclaim with.
--Hence Slaandar is town.

Yates is way too good

to drop some malarkey like "the hero must be a PR, wtf"... come on.

This was my first clue. All he had to do was look at his own role to figure out if characters matched up with flavor matched up with roles. Based on *my* role pm, I don't think it's random. It's possible that roles and character names were randomized and mine just happened to match up but I would have expected someone to come out and state it by now if that were the case as that would be the nail in the Yates coffin.

Damn - I was hoping Benmage was scum in GBII because I had the perfect quote. However, he should remember that game and know better...

I was going to drop a vote on him right there but he wasn't scum in the other game so I didn't have the smoking gun I thought I did. Still, more fire for the belly beast.

-Main protagonist don't need to exists, also they could be a safeclaim... What is your point?

Basically I just still fail to see your conclusions... so please reexplain your initial thought process.

This one is the best, though. He restates my point [that Goku could be a fakeclaim] then asks me what my point was. lol? Ohh... and then there's [quote="In post 635 where he claims that *my* logic is fail because *his* "logic of win" tells him that scum would NEVER fakeclaim VT early in the game. Like, say, Day 1? Wait. When did I claim VT? So... he doesn't believe the shit he is shoveling. And his new "logic of win" dictates that we should lynch one of the VT claims as MoI suggests???

Its the fact that he EARLY CLAIMED VT.

You obviously don't believe that because you are still voting for me and *I* early claimed VT. So what gives?

So... he *still* doesn't believe the shit he is shoveling.

The whole meta argument about his activity level was... headache inducing krap logick [100% on *his* part]. He was caught with his pants down and didn't want to admit it. Period. He seems to be shoveling a LOT of shit that he himself doesn't believe. THAT is my gut check read on Benmage and why he can die now.

[Yates]

WTF happened to my beautiful post?? Here it is again the way it is supposed to be presented. :/

Spoiler:

Yates is way too good

to drop some malarkey like "the hero must be a PR, wtf"... come on.

This was my first clue. All he had to do was look at his own role to figure out if characters matched up with flavor matched up with roles. Based on *my* role pm, I don't think it's random. It's possible that roles and character names were randomized and mine just happened to match up but I would have expected someone to come out and state it by now if that were the case as that would be the nail in the Yates coffin.

Damn - I was hoping Benmage was scum in GBII because I had the perfect quote. However, he should remember that game and know better...

I was going to drop a vote on him right there but he wasn't scum in the other game so I didn't have the smoking gun I thought I did. Still, more fire for the belly beast.

-Main protagonist don't need to exists, also they could be a safeclaim... What is your point?

Basically I just still fail to see your conclusions... so please reexplain your initial thought process.

This one is the best, though. He restates my point [that Goku could be a fakeclaim] then asks me what my point was. lol? Ohh... and then there's post 635 where he claims that *my* logic is fail because *his* "logic of win" tells him that scum would NEVER fakeclaim VT early in the game. Like, say, Day 1? Wait. When did I claim VT? So... he doesn't believe the shit he is shoveling. And his new "logic of win" dictates that we should lynch one of the VT claims as MoI suggests???

Its the fact that he EARLY CLAIMED VT.

You obviously don't believe that because you are still voting for me and *I* early claimed VT. So what gives?

So... he *still* doesn't believe the shit he is shoveling.

The whole meta argument about his activity level was... headache inducing krap logick [100% on *his* part]. He was caught with his pants down and didn't want to admit it. Period. He seems to be shoveling a LOT of shit that he himself doesn't believe. THAT is my gut check read on Benmage and why he can die now.

[JohnnyFarrar]

My decent townread on you, Yates, is the only reason that case works. Without it, it's just two people arguing over a claim to me.

Still, my vote's more useful somewhere, so VOTE: Benmage

[Yates]

Yeah. It's *my* gut check. So these are the reasons *I* am voting Ben. Feel free to vote for Ben for your own reasons, though.

[Thor665]

@Yates - most of your issues with Benmage seem to have been out there a while. What prompted the vote switch at this particular junction?

[snifit]

The Benmage counterwagon looks pretty damn desperate. I don't see it. Can anyone make it not look awful to me?
Pretty tired right now and not thinking very clearly. Looks like the A_I wagon is a no go and I don't want to lynch Yates or Benmage. I'll be able to check in once more before deadline. Willing to compromise and make a shit vote to lynch Yates if necessary though.

[JohnnyFarrar]

The Benmage counterwagon looks pretty damn desperate. I don't see it. Can anyone make it not look awful to me?
Pretty tired right now and not thinking very clearly. Looks like the A_I wagon is a no go and I don't want to lynch Yates or Benmage. I'll be able to check in once more before deadline. Willing to compromise and make a shit vote to lynch Yates if necessary though.

Benmage has my vote because I don't want to vote you or yates.
My case on AI turned out to be nothing.
Is this you saying you find Ben townier than yates?

[Acosmist]

VOTE: Yates