Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[Luca Blight]

Kerset - if you continue to only talk about things related to yourself then you will end up lynched, I’m pretty sure. If you are Town then try to focus on finding scum. If you don’t at least display some level of scum-hunting then you’re not giving me the chance to townread you.

[Sirfetchd]

How do we reconcile this with the fact that YouTube was supposed to be at first a dating website?

Burning hot single witches in your area.

[Kerset]

I am quite sure that you would call me guilty in any outcome
Kerset still looks scummy - he is a scum
Kerset doesn't look scummy - he is a scum

If you do not look scummy or don't do anything I consider scummy I have no reason to think you're scum. You've done these things though and you've followed a scummy pattern afterwards. So you must be scum in my mind.

My point is that for you this 'scummy pattern' is the fact that i don't look like scum anymore, meantime if i look like a scum for you i would still be obviously called scum.

[nomnomnom]

My point is that for you this 'scummy pattern' is the fact that i don't look like scum anymore

I never said that. I said that as a result of me calling out your shade posts, you stopped doing these things entirely without being prompted which is incredibly telling of someone who is self-conscious about being called out about it. If you continued doing these things I probably would have rethought my position and told myself that it's just how you play, but here I'm led to believe that this criticism made you feel guilty so you stripped those away from your posts, consciously or not.

[Luca Blight]

Just so we’re clear, what exactly has Kesert stopped doing after being called out on it, Nom?

[nomnomnom]

Just so we’re clear, what exactly has Kesert stopped doing after being called out on it, Nom?

At the beginning of the game the majority of what Kerset posted were posts containing posts shading people, or in other words, pointing fingers at people and saying that what they did is wrong, and I pointed out initially that the amount to which kerset does this is disproportional to the amount of votes they put out, which I found scummy. On top of that they had a really negative attitude towards the game and made a few pessimistic posts.

You can fact check this, after rb's and my accusations against Kerset, they have completely stopped doing that.

[Sirfetchd]

To be fair, that sounds like modulation of play to avoid suspicion which isn't alignment indicative. You can argue the initial point but skitter is also guilty of that no?

But yeah not doing what you got accused of doing after you got accused of it is pretty standard play from any slot regardless of alignment.

[Luca Blight]

@Kerset, I only have experience with Skitt as a mod, so I dont know what I make of the rest of her play. It feels curt and snippy, but that could be NAI.

Early game is the least indicative phase but for some reason you make your SR based around that. If you have at least mediocre confidence that he is scum, you should be able to read him farther. Especially someone with 140 posts like Skitter.

*sigh* VOTE: Billy

What’s with the *sigh* before voting Billy? Are you voting him reluctantly or something?

[nomnomnom]

I know this conversation will go nowhere so let's just agree to disagree on this one

[skitter30]

Luca's town, which is nice I guess.

yes

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Unvote, Vote: skitter

This is mostly historical as it's looking like a bit of a one or the other and I had/have a scum read on skit.

oh, do explain

and how does this fit in with you trying to make wagons happen / wanting wagons to happen?

It's my favourite of the people with votes already on them. So I'm consolidating on to my favourite of the wagons of the day.

... there's one vote on me

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"I know a scum newbie when I see one, trust me,"

i'm p good at identifying newbtown

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I may be misremembering, but from memory skitter is measured and works with people, including her reads to consolidate or debunk her reads. Here she is posting like I would expect a completely different style of player to post.

a) i've had several playstyles shifts recently, i'm largely in a pithy stream-of-conscious posting stage these days
b) have we, like, played before ?

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How is being dead last in the draft order an indication that someone is scummy?

i think he means it makes billy a more attractive lynch all else being equal given that there's a fairly decent chance he's unpowered

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oh yay i'm back to where i was earlier

[skitter30]

but i also feel like this isn't something most people do, not just me ?

No, you're right, it isn't something most people do.

But that's not the important question here. The important question is, is it something that a lot of people would do as scum but NOT as town? I think probably not.

? i think this behavior is significantly more likely to come from scum than town

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I just realised Skitter is still voting rb.

Do you really think rb is the best Lynch for today? I find that hard to get my head around.

i could have sworn i unvoted
VOTE: billy

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I don’t like Pm’s entrance or vote either. Meta isn’t the main point against Kerset - it’s a supporting point. Rb scumread Kerset before he ever looked at or mentioned their meta.

i kinda feel like pm is talking ~around~ things instead of engaging with the thread, if that makes sense ?

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I'd actually argue that someone who is 100% logically consistent about their votes and their positions is more likely to be scum depending on their experience level.

ya at least for me as scum i'm very concerned with like matching sure all my thoughts ~line up~ and that i can articulate the thought process between like any two posts in case anyone asks

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I sense that Billy isn’t the bussing type, so I don’t think he and Skitter are partners, but I would like to know exactly who Skitter wants to be lynched today.

billy
still want more from aaron too

[nomnomnom]

ya at least for me as scum i'm very concerned with like matching sure all my thoughts ~line up~ and that i can articulate the thought process between like any two posts in case anyone asks

If you agree with this thought how do you reconcile that Billy doesn't seem to be doing this?

[Something_Smart]

? i think this behavior is significantly more likely to come from scum than town

Why?

[skitter30]

i don't know if everyone does/can play scum this way

[skitter30]

? i think this behavior is significantly more likely to come from scum than town

Why?

because if you read the same thing twice and are trying to figure out someone's alignment i dont' understand how you can come to totally opposite conclusions each time

like this just doesn't happen to me when i play town ...
that i like read the same twice in a relatively short timespan, without getting any new info, and feel different things about it each time.
i reread things to remind myself what i thought about it the first time because sometimes i forget and i nearly always have a very similar impression the second time around that i did the first time

[skitter30]

maybe after like dayphases / irl weeks pass and i have new information i read things with a new perspective but not in such a short timespan

[Luca Blight]

Nom, how are you reading Skitter atm?

[nomnomnom]

I admit I am still confused that Billy out of all people in this playerlist is getting wagoned. It just feels so random, so much of an easy target to go after, the guy had barely any content and people went after him on day 1 with people making extremely dodgy posts. I still don't understand. I think that the wagon is extremely bad and probably has scum in it. I can't comprehend how people went to the conclusion that Billy was a good lynch. Even if you forget Kerset there are a lot of people worthy of scrutiny that got off relatively easy and I think that is no coincidence.

pedit: @Luca I am conflicted. I think I can't in good conscience put her anywhere else than Null. She's making extremely odd moves here that I'm not used to see, although again I've seen her do this in a micro with me where I thought the fact that she missed a logical conclusion for an entire day was perhaps indicative of a scum mindset, but she was town and simply paranoid of people. But here I don't get that at all so I'm just confused.

[nomnomnom]

In fact if I was to look at this wagon and point at someone who I think is scum I'd definitely vote Xayah here.

[skitter30]

which micro

also i don't like xayah's vote either

[Luca Blight]

Yes I agree about Xayah. Based on interactions I’m leaning against Kerset and Xayah being partnered together, but based on play there’s a decent chance at least one is scum. I can’t justify unvoting Kerset until they show me something of a townie mindset, however.

[skitter30]

and what do you think i'm doing that's odd?

[nomnomnom]

which micro

also i don't like xayah's vote either

That one micro where I lost my mind lol

I'm referencing stuff that isn't important but the bottom line is that your paranoia of Ank basically caused you to lose your mind with her. I think you're a deeply paranoid person in general which justifies a lot of your reads but here with Billy I don't see it.

[Kerset]

Kerset - if you continue to only talk about things related to yourself then you will end up lynched, I’m pretty sure. If you are Town then try to focus on finding scum. If you don’t at least display some level of scum-hunting then you’re not giving me the chance to townread you.

The main topic of this game is previous game analysis. Its hard to deeply participate in this, when you haven't played with suspects and shallow shading is looked upon. I feel that its actually initial reason of my wagon(?). Meantime the other topics are spec/mech talk and me, so i don't think that i can artificially create a case to talk about. If there was any non PGA lead that i missed feel free to correct me.

[skitter30]

oh ~that~ one

well i don't think i'm a paranoid person in general, only in a mafia sense

and i think i'm mostly paranoid of people that i think have good scumgames and/or have fooled me before (i.e. you, ank, the ducky, etc). i don't think that's a baseline for people i don't have much experience with
and i don't know anything about billy's scumgame