Heroes of Comedy Game Over - He who laughs last!

[Tammy]

Yates - that first quote that you posted that's attributed to Pere - that's actually me.

[Yates]

SON. OF. A. B!!! GD Quote fail again!

That post should look like this:

Spoiler:

@PV and Scott - You have both made comments about VJ "probably" being Town because you both claim to believe that VJ never actually claimed scum. I'll quote the most recent relevant post here that includes both of your opinions:

No, I think V2V is probably town. Scott summed it up here.

Again, you are acting like he actually claimed. v2v said something like im gonna shoot you tonight. Why would anyone take that seriously? If his claim was so convincing that it warranted protection, why did the ACTUAL VIG kill him? That's how weak that feeble attempt at a claim was.

I repeat, it's a dumb move, but it really reeks of town, not master manipulator scum.

I responded to Scott Brosius in post 823 but neither of you commented on my statement before the end of the day. The critical quote from that post is this one:

I claimed vig because...

What I am saying is that *I* thought VJ claimed vig. I can go back and get you some specific quotes if needed but it is pretty clear that Korlash and MoI and Fate [all of our Town flips] all thought VJ claimed vig as well. Fate was so convinced, in fact, that he

unclaimed

having a "power role." Then, you have VJ admitting that even *HE* thought he claimed vig in the quote above. In light of this information, does

any of this evidence

change your opinions as stated in the posts above?

PE - No, it's Pere but I took the quote from your post and fouled up the spoiler tags. Hopefully, this makes it more clear.

[Tammy]

*sigh* I just read your ISO...probably lazy town. Oh hey, I just realized something. You shouldn't be feeling out of your depth anymore Vijay. Does that mean you're going to start actually contributing to the game now?

[Yates]

What makes VJ a Town read, out of curiosity?

[Tammy]

It's nothing concrete...just a general feeling I get from his interactions and the way he words his posts. Like for example this one which came just after I hammered:

There is a God. Thank you Tammy.

Fuck. Sorry Korlash, you were driving my gut insane. But I can't say exactly why you're scum. Normally I'd read your ISO, but I have enough novels on my plate.

Right or wrong?

Feels genuine to me. His vote on me though, and his refusal to pay attention to what I said, is a perfect scum thing to do. Because scum can use the "this is mafia...you're lying. You dropped a scumtell A SCUMTELL" and think it won't matter when the mislynch occurs. :shrug: We'll see what he brings to the game now that the people who made him feel out of his element are gone. He could have been playing a whole "I'm intimidated" game to escape notice. So, we'll see. But, yeah, a lot of his ISO just reads townish to me.

[Yates]

See, to me that quote is why my gut is telling me he is NOT Town. He claims he wanted Korlash to drive because Korlash was driving him nuts. You claimed you voted Korlash because Korlash was driving you nuts. How does he arrive at scum-Tammy when he voted for the same reason?? Hell, he even THANKED you for hammering then opens today with suspicion on your hammer? It makes no sense to me.

I combine this with the fact he quickly jumps on wagons and was more than happy to hammer on both lynches. He admits he had no case but just wanted "someone" [surprise surprise both "someone's" were Town] to die. This, of course, goes without bringing up the whole fake vig claim again. I admit that I don't have any HARD evidence on VJ-scum [other than the fact he was absolutely caught in a lie - there is NO denying he fake claimed vig. I'm sorry but that was a fake claim and there is no one in this game that can convince me otherwise. The guy ADMITS to it!]. The evidence is there. With all of this as a background, I just can't see a reason to give him the benefit of the doubt and to excuse his lie as being "misguided" Town motivated. It just doesn't make sense in the context of the rest of his posts. Add to this the fact that he claims to be out of his element, then pulls a move like that? Again, it just doesn't make sense. If he's Town, he's lucky Fate didn't counter *or* just kill him at night instead of Ben. My assumption is that Fate had scum reads on both Ben AND VJ but decided to take out Ben knowing VJ was likely to have Doc protection. This way if Ben flipped Town, Fate wouldn't have to role reveal and could try to push through a VJ lynch thus preserving his identity. AND if he was unable to push through the VJ lynch, he could always try viging VJ the next night. I realize this is all speculation but I have nothing else to go on and this is what makes the most sense while explaining how events have transpired up to this point.

I am also interested in some responses to my post to Pere wherein I linked Pappums to VJ. PV is right in that Pappums didn't really have a lot of interaction with anyone other than Korlash. Where he thinks he may have seen a hint of something condemning Split/Pizza [waiting for him to verify that b/c I don't see it on quick glance] I saw a lot of Pappums defending VJ right up until his last post where he said VJ just killed the Town read he initially had on him. So if you are going to look at Pappum's posts to see who would want him dead...? *shrug* Do you see a better candidate than VJ?

Again, I'm trying not to tunnel. I am saying this with 100% knowledge that I probably have some scum blinders on in regards to VJ. However, I can't shake the feeling and I can't shake the facts and no one has said anything convincing enough to make me think I'm wrong. So if you have a Town read on VJ [and this goes to EVERYONE] please prove me wrong.

In fact, this exercise makes me even more sure VJ is likely scum. I am going to...

Vote: VJ

I'm willing to listen and to entertain VJ's response to my question from earlier [regarding your vote and change of heart].

[Yates]

Die - not drive. Ugh. He claims he wanted Korlash to

DIE

because Korlash was driving him nuts.

I need another nap.

[PeregrineV]

@Whoever said it- I don't think Scott is a VI. Which probably means he's scum this game.

Vote: Scott Brosius

@Tammy- I did suspect Korlash. My goal was to get him out of discussions of semantics and game theory and his playstyle and get him onto players in this game and this game. I never voted him because I wasn't sure enough he was scum. And if town, I think I'd rather have kept him around (if it sounds like I'm still conflicted, it's because I am. Good playstyle <> useful, although I would like to think that is the case).

Also, I still suspect Hez, but figured the night would let him catch up and he'd come roaring out of the day with *something*.
But, that hasn't happened.

VOTE: Tammy

Just a touch quick to justify that hammer.

I see this too!

But she's voting SCOTT BROSIUS!

I'd vote him too, but want more rage and defending of his scumreads, 3 out of the top 4 being town. This will tell me if he is scum, or just bad at this game.

[splitfarvle]

I don't fault Tammy for the hammer, Korlash was the correct lynch as the most suspicious player in the game imo.

I think I agree with Yate's POE argument. Out of that list I would prefer Scott or Vijay to flip.

While I reread some things,
VOTE: Scott

[Scott Brosius]

I'll read up, been busy at work.

[The Mini-Librarian]

Huh. I'm alive.

hmmmmmm.

That probably means my reads are off.

Let's see I remember calling Hez and Tammy town quite a bit yesterday. Was there anyone else? Someone I'm calling town is scum here.

Yates is giving me bad vibes. (note to self: Iso Yates. Figure out what's going on here.)

The Scott B. wagon feels like a mislynch to me, but once again this is just vibes.

All in all I got a lot shit to reread before actually doing anything today.

[Tammy]

Huh. I'm alive.

hmmmmmm.

That probably means my reads are off.

Awkward reaction to the nightkill is awkward. Which sucks because I had you pretty solidly town and now I need to take another look.

[vijay2vasandani]

Yeah I'll try my best.

Anyway I have no issues with the hammer. I actually had Tammy as town for getting rid of Korlash (no offense Korlash). It's the fact that you bothered with a justification that worries me. Say what you want, but it reads rather dodgy to me. Furthermore, I sincerely doubt Korlash needed one from you. It's mafia and people are going to get hammered.

Good discredit though. Seriously "dumbest mislynch ever lulz"? Real original.

Does that answer your question Yates?

[Tammy]

Yeah I'll try my best.

Anyway I have no issues with the hammer. I actually had Tammy as town for getting rid of Korlash (no offense Korlash). It's the fact that you bothered with a justification that worries me. Say what you want, but it reads rather dodgy to me. Furthermore, I sincerely doubt Korlash needed one from you. It's mafia and people are going to get hammered.

Good discredit though. Seriously "dumbest mislynch ever lulz"? Real original.

Does that answer your question Yates?

It wasn't meant to discredit you...it is dumb. And you need to actually start thinking rationally and get your head in the game now that you're in your element. If you need to try and get me lynched to prove how idiotic this is, go for it. <---------Yes, probably an insult because now you've pissed me off.

There was no fucking justification. I felt bad that he seemed bothered. I don't care if you think someone else didn't need an explanation; his reaction read to me like he was bothered because I didn't explain, so I explained...simple as that. Yeah, it's mafia...but we're all still people and it sucks when people think you're scum when you're not.

I think it's really rich that the person who fake claimed a vig in order to supposedly draw the night kill because he felt out of his element has the audacity to claim that me explaining something to someone who seemed bothered is dodgy. Seriously dude, you need to get a grip.

[Tammy]

Oh and just so you're aware, Vijay, if I were scum, I'd probably have been arguing

against

a Korlash lynch. That kind of distraction is one I'd have played out for as many days as I possibly could.

[Tammy]

Huh. I'm alive.

hmmmmmm.

That probably means my reads are off.

Awkward reaction to the nightkill is awkward. Which sucks because I had you pretty solidly town and now I need to take another look.

Okay I just ISO'd you...you can stay town.

[Tammy]

Whoa...I just realized something. You had a town read on me

because

I hammered Korlash? WTF?

Retract that town read I had...Vijay's back in the wtf pile.

[Tammy]

Sorry for spamming the thread but HEZLUCKY...feel like contributing anything?

[vijay2vasandani]

It doesn't suck if people think you're mafia, it's part of the game. And the Korlash hammer made you town because you willingly got rid of somebody who in your words was a "distraction". How is that not pro-town? But whatever, I'll give you the benefit of doubt. Will read some ISOs and make a decision from there.

[HezLucky]

I have reviewed all of my previous notes and started from Page 17, with flips in mind.

Korlash flipping town is oh god fail. It is time to figure out who actually believed their attacks on him.

How about this post, guys? Fate #258:

Fate #258 says the scum is in [Knox, Pere, Vijay, Istark]

I still believe this. Partially because all four slots are alive.

Well, not Istark/TML - that slot is obvtown.

Starting from #401 -

Supporting Pere's Pizza theory is that Fate calls out Pizzadude scum in #402.

Don't like PV though in general. Asks too many questions with too little follow-up.

#418 - TML if you're scum I am going to hate you. This is either town being pissed off about bad town, or scum white knighting. Given
my previous townread on the slot, BotD.

#420 - MattP slot. I LIKE THIS FIRST POST. HAHAHAHA. He's basically like "FEAR ME STUPID MAF". This is amazing.
...and Fate agrees (#421)

#454 - Vijay is just tunneling on Yates this whole time. Getting kinda annoying.

Dats some nice Knox/zeek/Scott Brosius lurking we've got in this game. STILL haven't heard anything from him since the 200's.

Fate #507

Why the hell is there a wall of verification for why you were lurkign Yates? So scared

That list does look really fucking out of place.

MattP #526 - is he really bad town or overreacting scum? o_O :shrug:

Day 1 Vote Count 6
Rat 4 - MOI,Korlash,Mini-Librarian, Pizza,
MOI 4 - Benmage, Yates,pappums rat,MattP,
Pizza 2 - Shotgun, Fate,
Mini-Librarian 1 - Zeek
Yates 1 - vijay2vansandani,
MattP 1 - PereV

This vote count is telling me something. Rat and MOI both flipped town. That means this is a town counterwagon on a town wagon. I think that
the mafia are nearly all in different places. Benmage flipped as mafia, and pappums has flipped, which means the MOI wagon would be filled
entirely with scum if Yates and MattP (Tammy) were the last two mafia, so they are out as partners.

Zeek (the Scott Brosius slot) also has an extremely questionable vote on TML. Ew. Among {Zeek, Vijay, PereV} we very likely have a mafia -
based on this votecount, I am certain the mafia were all doing close to different things [MOI and Korlash have flipped, strong townread on
TML so if you want to add Pizza you can - but Pizza might be the other maf :S]

ACK. Reading on.

Pizza #570 is shit-flinging. He calls out MoI but at this stage he is VOTING FOR RAT. LOL.

OH GOD YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING RIGHT. Korlash #572 reads like paranoid-of-MoI town. However, I would have thrown this out as he would have
had ilke 5 scumpoints to his name by now.

Tammy #669 walks in here and immediately starts lecturing Vijay on the merits of not being anti-town. WHITE KNIGHT.
#670 is a lot of null and "I'm confused" and "I need to ISO" reads. Really?

...BUT SHE'S VOTING SCOTT BROSIUS.

Hell, they can both be scum.
{with #690 it follows that I do not like the Scott Brosius/Tammy interactions. It is definitely possible they are BOTH scum, but if one of
them winds up flipping town it will be a huge mindfuck for me}


Still think Vijay is town. #680 is genuine [though what the fuck Vijay?] and there are too many scummy suspects for him to be scum. I
don't blame him for not being as active I don't want to read most of these Korlash/MoI/now-Tammy walls either.

Let's see...

1. Potentially drawing out the REAL vig - who would be a major bane to scum? Check.
2. Draw a night protect from Doc thus allowing all scum kill actions to go through? Check.
3. Setting up your scum defense? Check.

Bonus - may not apply in this particular game but worth mentioning - Explaining why an investigator might find you with a weapon? Check.

This looks like a stretch. Yates gets a pass because I am convinced he is not scum but, rather, just BAD at this game. {oh god Yates is going to tunnel me now isn't he}

VI Shotgun agreeing with him follows easily.

The fuck? I actually like Scott Brosius #726 a little bit. Uh oh. He attacked Yates, but then went on him and tried his luck elsewhere. This just seems so town to do.

AND TAMMY LOOKS GOOD AGAIN ... OH FUCK IT I AM SUFFERING FROM HUGE BOUTS OF CONFIRMATION BIAS. FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK.

Kill me. Please.

HOE LEE crap. You are SUCH a hippocrite. You are claiming to be "out of your element" because you couldn't follow the meta business [affc inexplicably being the acronym for "a feast of crows"] yet the main tenent of your beef with me is because *I* couldn't follow the meta business and thus came to the conclusion that MoI scum slipped?? THEN you put a pin in that point and used that as your justification for how I FABRICATED the scum slip theory?!

Yeah. You can die in a fire.

This is ... a good post.

Hmm...not a fan of Split's "contribution." That's the only thing there is to comment on the game? A contradiction? No thoughts on anything else?

Is the whole reason you're voting Korlash is because of the contradiction?

I'd like to know how Korlash flipping scum would clear PapRat, Yates or me. Do we look good independently or is this just a future thing in case we're voting for scum? You don't think it's at least a little bit suspicious that I voted for Korlash and then got into a lengthy discussion in which I said that I wasn't even sure if I wanted to lynch him?

YOU ARE SUCH A WHITE KNIGHT. DEAR GOD. This whole post is just "autopilot scum mode". Link me to a few town games Tammy I am going to quick-ISO your town play.

Hezlucky - Read Scott Brosius' "contribution" since he replaced in and tell me what you think.[/quote[

I can finally respond to this. It fucking sucks. No, not his contribution - the fact that he is not making himself obvscum. I thought I had something. I am pretty sure I still do, just because he replaced someone who is so damn incriminating, but I am not liking this one bit.

Vijay is town. HE IS SO GIDDY AND EXCITED ABOUT GETTING THIS GAME MOVING. If he was careful-playing-scum-planning-out-a-vig-fakeclaim-for-towncred I don't think his posts would show this level of emotion. VIJAY CLEARLY WANTS A FLIP. HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER.

I can finally give PeregrineV his well-earned scumpoints for planning an attack on me, which I had proven earlier by showing how he had clearly not read my post and was just looking for tihngs to pick out. Bad scum.

My bad. You are on page 10, and based on those 10 pages on not the remaining 23, you voted Korlash.

So, yes, drmyshotgun was scummy for his posts, but you have taken up the mantle and are scummy all on your own.

And, of course, this is just an attempt to discredit my strong scumread. Yates did it too - but Yates is not good.

AND SCOTT UNVOTES ME. DEAR GOD. HE SHOULD BE PUSHING ON ME FOR NOT HAVING READ THE GAME. OH FUCK FUCK FUCK.

VIJAY #836 - WHYYYYYYYYY???? VIJAY YOU ARE TOWN PLEASE DON'T FUCK THIS UP. OUR BEST TOWN PLAYER FATE IS ALREADY GONE.

but THIS:

Split is the only player to both Vote like scum AND have Ben Links. (He is the person Ben attacked the most, yet like V2V Ben only 'kept him around' and never 'pushed a real attack on him') His flip could be as important as V2V's since he had an early wagon as well, and like Hez, he is pushing my lynch with pretty much shit reasons. (Split at least took the time to respond to me, so at the very least he doesn't appear to be stalling like Hez does.)

SPLIT COULD BE SCUM. PV'S ATTACK ON HIM MIGHT BE LEGIT. GOD. OR IT COULD BE A BUS.

Yates hasn't bothered to do any sort of scumhunting in something like 10 pages. My ass you are fucking distracted.

Scott Brosius has gone back to lurking. Points against.

Vijay is town for the vote on Tammy that I ALSO SAW. THE JUSTIFICATION. AND THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH VIJAY'S PLAY. YAY VIJAY IS OFFICIALLY _OBVTOWN_

WHAT IS WITH THIS QUICK WAGON ON SCOTT BROSIUS? SPLITFARVLE BASICALLY JUST QUICKVOTED ONTO IT.

Tunnel-mode activated. Read on from here

Look at PV's playstyle in this game. Are you, the reader, town? Don't you feel fucking confused? I know I am. I know some others have stated they are. PV seems like, despite the fact that WE HAVE NOT HAD A CORRECT LYNCH YET, the only person here who is not confused.

Town get confused. They don't have to be, but in this situation, I think it's par. After having read the whole game, I am freaking lost. PV just basically came out immediately and was like "okay I'm going to try this split wagon now". SPLIT IS NOT A HARD TARGET. It's not like he's obvtown or has been posting much. And heck, PV might even be right - if he's town. I don't see the confusion in PV's tone that I see in nearly everyone else's and, at this point, he is the only person in this game thus far who is not given off a town-tell.



SCUM -
[consider a questino mark to be, like, half a non-question mark]

1) PeregrineV scumscum [2.0]
2) knox/zeek/Scott Brosius scumscumscumtown?townscum? [2.0]
3) Pizzadudes7/spitfarvle scum?town?scumscum? [1.5]
4) Yates townscum?scum [not mafia with Tammy] [0.5]
5) Jester/MattP/Tammy town?scum? [not mafia with Yates] [0]
6) iStark/TML towntown [-2]
7) Vijay towntowntown [-3]


I read the rest of the game and am more lost than when I started.

I bet nearly everyone else feels this way.

I'm going to go with someone who doesn't appear to be lost at all.

Vote: PeregrineV

[HezLucky]

People help me which part of my post is flat out wrong and which parts am I seriously onto something?

[Tammy]

Well the part where you call me a white knight is wrong . I've been criticized in the past for having too even-handed of a play and too friendly of a meta, but once people understand it's a personality thing they get over it :shrug:

I only have two completed games here - both town - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21408 and http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21344

As far as me, the reader, yes I feel confused this game. I was certain about Scott just coming out of the day but the way the votes piled up on him have me thinking twice, and it's quite likely because my wagon mates are the two other people I have as my major suspects. But, if they're both scum I wouldn't expect them both to pile on immediately. blech.

Did you read my Post 919 where I ask Pere about how it looks like he was gently pushing the Korlash wagon without being on it? And his response in Post 932.

That makes me really suspicious, but Pere and Ben's interactions don't look bad at all, but jumping onto Scott when Split hadn't even posted yet after he voted him just after night is ringing alarms.

Pizza/Split's interactions look pretty bad and his contribution hasn't been great, but if he's scum I can't imagine he'd jump right on the Scott wagon if his partner was.

I'll read back over your post in a bit after I do some real life work.

[Scott Brosius]

Alright, I still haven't really gotten into this game, mostly due to massive walls and the entirety of the day revolving around Korlash defending himself when his lynch was probably inevitable.

Yates is probtown due to this townslip, although I suppose it could be fabricated.

ugh - update to add "RIP: PR" I forgot he was dead.

So with that, I am actually feeling a little better about PV with his vote on Split. It isn't the worst reason ever and doesn't look like scum distancing scum.

Tammy's 919 is good, pointing out that PV was softly pushing the Korlash wagon, yet never jumping on.

What I am saying is that *I* thought VJ claimed vig. I can go back and get you some specific quotes if needed but it is pretty clear that Korlash and MoI and Fate [all of our Town flips] all thought VJ claimed vig as well. Fate was so convinced, in fact, that he

unclaimed

having a "power role." Then, you have VJ admitting that even *HE* thought he claimed vig in the quote above. In light of this information, does

any of this evidence

change your opinions as stated in the posts above?

I would like to see these specific quotes.

@Whoever said it- I don't think Scott is a VI. Which probably means he's scum this game.

Vote: Scott Brosius

This is a pretty silly reason to vote me. One person who has never played with me before, and is playing with me in a game I haven't gotten into is calling me a VI. You don't think I am so I must be scum?

I don't fault Tammy for the hammer, Korlash was the correct lynch as the most suspicious player in the game imo.

I think I agree with Yate's POE argument. Out of that list I would prefer Scott or Vijay to flip.

While I reread some things,
VOTE: Scott

Preferring probably the top two current wagons, because he "thinks" he agrees with Yates. Wishy-washy yet prepping to jump on either juicy wagon as necessary.

Vote: splitfarvle

I'll be away from computer for ~36 hours.

[Yates]

@ Scott

Where Korlash says VJ fakeclaimed vig:

Spoiler:

Vote: V2V[/b]

Claimed vig...

@ V2V: Why did you choose to fake a vig claim?

Where VJ says he fakeclaimed vig:

Spoiler:

I claimed vig because vig is very dangerous to scum.]/quote]

Anyway Korlash, I've already admitted I fakeclaimed vig.

I retract my statement about MoI and Fate. Upon further review, Fate unclaimed power role due to MoI's weirdly played gambit [where HE claimed Veng for himself] and neither say anything about VJ. My bad. The end of that day was a weird time for me [Presidential visit] and I think I made an assumption that wasn't there.

I'm willing to

Unvote

on the speculation that his fakeclaim may have gotten lost by others during the MoI gambit, though my larger point still stands [ie. he *did* fakeclaim vig].


@ Hez

If you're going to list Fate's #507, you need to include my #509 Where I say "to brag" and this:

Spoiler:

...our media department sends us "fun links" to show us that we are in the news. That was only the first THIRD of what they sent us this morning!

Then, you should also include Fate's 520 as well.

Spoiler:

I had a feeling that it was because his company has a memo with a shitlist of links and he copy pasted, if he had posted anything else (aka was curious so googled it for all the links) I'd just purge it with fire

[/quote]

The bottom line is that it isn't weird to post all those links once you realize it was just copy pasta from an internal email.

That's also why I was "lurking" for 10 pages. I was working crazy hours before and after the event to prepare and then clean up. You weren't here and I didn't post it in game so I see where you wouldn't know this but I was V/LA during that stretch. I'm sure at least ONE person can corroborate.


@ PV - Would you please answer the question from post 918?

@ VJ - I think you answered my question. Thanks.

@ TML - What makes you think you are a bigger target/threat than anyone else?

@ Split - Oh hi there! I didn't realize you were still playing!

@ Tammy - <3

I will be V/LA through the weekend.

[PeregrineV]

@Yates- Can do. I just looked earlier, but I'll go pull the posts/quotes.