Mini 1577: Dangan Ronpa Mafia (GAME OVER!!)

[Bookitty]

@Saki and Skullduggery:

Can you think of any pro-town reason why someone would be unwilling to give their scumreads in 4-person MYLO, even if they were pushing for a No Lynch?

[zMuffinMan]

Why would I "humour" you when I think you're scum?

for shits and giggles, if nothing else

there is no actual downside to it, so just do it rather than dragging out the day phase for no reason

or vote me and end this game, because i'm not going to stop being stubborn about this and i really don't give two shits if it means a loss

[zMuffinMan]

Can you think of any pro-town reason why someone would be unwilling to give their scumreads in 4-person MYLO, even if they were pushing for a No Lynch?

btw, if you're actually interested in the answer, humour me and see what happens overnight

if i'm still alive tomorrow, i've promised to explain it

[Bookitty]

To quote Buffy the Vampire Slayer:

Caught scum: I will never talk, no matter what heinous torture you --
Giles: Actually, you're talking quite a lot, just not about the right things.

I was asking them. Not you

[zMuffinMan]

hey saki

if you're around today, i wanna talk to you

(and yes, i never thought i'd ever utter those words, either)

[Bert]

VOTE COUNT 5.3

No Lynch:

zMuffinMan (1)

Not Voting:

Bookitty, Saki, Skullduggery (3)

With four alive, it takes three to lynch. The day will end on July 2, 2014 at 20:00 PST, which is in (expired on 2014-07-03 20:00:00).

[Skullduggery]

What I find really odd is his unwillingness to engage with you. He's been arguing with me for what seems an eternity. He's not arguing with you at all, though you've also said there won't be a no-lynch. He's insulted, cajoled, said trust me guys and been downright rude. He hasn't done the same to you, though, and he's barely interacted with Saki at all. I guess he can't think I'm scum, based on his arguments alone. I don't really understand the lack of focus or comment to you or Saki, though.

That's easy. If we do go ahead with a no-lynch today (spoiler: we're not), then you're

guaranteed

to still be here tomorrow since you're Bulletproof. You're a long-term investment for Muffin-Scum, so he's using today to try to get you on his side through empty promises, bullying, and whatever other method he can think of. You're not going anywhere and he's going to need your vote secure tomorrow's mislynch, so it makes perfect sense for him to focus so heavily on winning you over.

Plus, I feel like he's keeping Saki and I at arm's length so as not to reveal who he plans to kill tonight. If he interacts heavily with you and I but totally ignores Saki, then it will be safe to assume that Saki is getting killed tonight. If he interacts heavily with you and Saki but totally ignored me, then it will be safe to assume that I am getting killed tonight. However, if he ignores Saki and I equally, then we're left guessing as to which of us will eat a bullet tonight. (Although, to be completely fair, Saki hasn't exactly given

any

of us much to respond to while I've at least been trying.)

You no-lynch in four-player MYLO if you just have absolutely no idea who the last Scum player could be and you need a night-kill to remove a potential suspect from play.

that is only half-correct

but yes, i am fully aware that no lynching is designed to remove a potential suspect from play

If I were to ask you who you think would most likely die tonight if we no-lynched, would you actually answer me or would you just brush me off?

Scum will now control 33% of the vote instead of just 25%

this seems irrelevant

It's not. In 3-player LYLO, you would only need to convince one other player to vote for the person you want to lynch. In 4-player MYLO, you need to convince two other players to vote for the person you want to lynch, which is decidedly more difficult. That doesn't seem like an irrelevant difference to me.

so if the only valid argument is that it's a "waste of time" when it really isn't, humour me.

I see no compelling reason why I should.

you've made up your mind today and decided you want to lynch me. don't pretend anything i say is going to change it today.

Then why are you trying so hard to make Boo change her mind?

@Saki and Skullduggery:

Can you think of any pro-town reason why someone would be unwilling to give their scumreads in 4-person MYLO, even if they were pushing for a No Lynch?

From a claimed VT? Nope.

Why would I "humour" you when I think you're scum?

for shits and giggles, if nothing else

This is not a compelling reason. This is the opposite of a compelling reason.

or vote me and end this game, because i'm not going to stop being stubborn about this and i really don't give two shits if it means a loss

You sure are showing a lot of effort for someone who doesn't care about losing.


Yeah, I think I've seen enough.

VOTE: zMuffinMan

Lynch Muffin. Town wins. Good game.

[Skullduggery]

hey saki

if you're around today, i wanna talk to you

(and yes, i never thought i'd ever utter those words, either)

Jeez, Muffin, I didn't think you were

that

desperate.

[zMuffinMan]

If I were to ask you who you think would most likely die tonight if we no-lynched, would you actually answer me or would you just brush me off?

i would brush you off

[Bookitty]

I'm sorry I won't hear the magical vanilla townie explanation, but I didn't really believe in it anyway.

VOTE: zMuffinMan

[zMuffinMan]

that's ok

it's funny because the scum in this game is not even playing well and it's rather sad they're most likely going to win

i probably won't even give a shit about explaining in post-game exactly why you're an awful player if you're town, boo

just do me a favour if you're town here. never join a game i'm in, ever. i will do you the same courtesy.

[Bookitty]

If you thought the scum was Saki, zMuffinMan, why were you going to talk to him?

Why weren't you talking to anyone else? If you are town, which I can't believe, it's your play today that sealed your fate. You even said this wasn't the right behaviour for 4-person LYLO.

I don't really care about what you say about me in any venue. I don't have a tremendous ego about my Mafia play, but your constant torrent of insults isn't so much fun to play with regardless, so you don't need to worry.

[zMuffinMan]

If you thought the scum was Saki, zMuffinMan, why were you going to talk to him?

you are not very bright

[zMuffinMan]

actually, all i was going to ask saki was whether or not he cared about winning this game and whether he thought this was my scum game

[zMuffinMan]

also

it's your play today that sealed your fate

yeahhhhhhhhhhh no

dont pretend like you hadnt made up your mind already, regardless of what i had to say

[Bookitty]

If I had made up my mind definitively at day's start between you and Saki, I would have said so then.

Actually:

UNVOTE:

I'll let you have your chat.

Posting this now to avoid a quicklynch. More following.

[zMuffinMan]

if i am scum no matter what, you may as well keep your vote on me

[zMuffinMan]

also this day is ending in either my lynch or a no lynch, and you've made it clear you aren't no lynching, so you may as well keep your vote on me

[Bookitty]

I was demoralised at the start of the day. When Sala flipped town, I was sure Skull would be the nightkill. I thought gameplay might actually be the scum. When he flipped town as the nightkill, I went back and looked at the entire game. I looked at Skull very specifically, because I wanted to be sure of some things I thought I remembered. I wasn't wrong about Skull; if Skullduggery is scum, he's played a perfect town game. I don't believe that to be true. I thought Skull had shot Not Mafia from the first.

So I'd cleared Skull for myself. That's what I had going in. And then I started to think about what scum would need. They need to find votes against people that aren't them. I'd be one of those votes, because I knew I wasn't going to be the nightkill.

I saw this:

Eh there really is no certainty that I will vote right. But I won't vote Skull. I would feel greater pleasure to watch Skull flip SK/scum and win this game. So you can trust me on this. Still I think that scum is Pim and then Sala. Just sayin

That was when I was arguing with gameplay. It's an example of why he couldn't be allowed to live to MYLO. He wasn't going to vote Skull. He wanted a Pim/zMuffin lynch over Sala. Scum would know Sala was going to flip town. I didn't, so I didn't pay that much attention at the time.

So at the start of the day, I was mulling over Saki and Muffin. Saki doesn't like me, he's made it abundantly clear. But why would scum who knew there was a tomorrow to worry about behave like Saki did yesterday? Why keep pushing the vengeful angle and asking to be lynched, even to the point of self-voting?

Why would a townie ever refuse to give any reads at 4-person LYLO? Trying to draw the nightkill won't cut it. Even if I assumed Sakiscum and zMuffintown, here's how it would go down:

Saki kills zMuffin overnight, Skull and Boo lynch Saki. Vengeful scum or no, town wins.

So it's not that. Saki can figure out those odds. Anyone could.

There's that * at the end of your Skull read in Post 812. I thought about that a lot today. * implies you were going to say something conditionally. Now, I'm nitpicky, and I nitpick. But that didn't look like an accident, where it was positioned. You can explain it differently, but I thought MYSELF that that * was "as long as Skull was the NK." Tell me it's a typo. I still think it's odd; it's not a typo that would be easy to make.

Saki is sticking to his yesterday claim today and has asked to be lynched. You said no. That implies something pretty strongly:

If you are town, you don't think Saki is scum. Otherwise you'd take that deal in a New York minute. I would, if I thought Saki was scum. My death doesn't matter if we lynch scum.

So that means you have a town-read on Saki. Fair enough, so do I. But you also said "the scum isn't playing particularly well." More importantly, you've said that to me. You've spent all day arguing with me. If you think I'm scum, I'm not the one you need to convince here. You're avoiding talking to Skull insofar as it's possible. You're refusing to give reads on anyone or to say anything of substance.

So we can sort of rule out that you think I'm scum. If you did, you'd be pointing out my scumminess to Skull and you'd be arguing your case pretty vehemently. But I think you think Skull won't be around tomorrow, so why bother with covering that particular set of bases?

Skull not being around tomorrow and Skull being scum can't both be true. No one who thinks Skull is scum would avoid saying so today on the basis of drawing a nightkill away from Skull.

Every one of your constant ad hominem attacks has been at me, not at Skull, who believes the same way I do. You said the scum wasn't playing very well, so you can't mean Skull there. But your ad hominem attacks are all predicated on me being town. So you must think I'm town too. You think Saki is town or you'd be willing to take the deal to lynch him and take the vengeful hit.

Who's left that you could think is scum but yourself?

I don't expect an answer. You've made it clear you've no interest in discussion today. But making threats about what you're gonna do to me after the game is over is pretty lame, all things considered.

Have your chat with Saki. I'm in no hurry.

[zMuffinMan]

oh, you're so close to figuring it out yet so far

[zMuffinMan]

i mean, if you just took a step back and thought about my actions today from the perspective of who i think is scum, you'd realise exactly what i'm doing and why

keeping in mind two things: i am a very cautious player, and i do not share the same opinions you do

[zMuffinMan]

i mean, you're close to the point that there is not really much meaning in me continuing to be stubborn about explaining it

but i'm going to anyway, because i don't really like you as a player

[zMuffinMan]

Tell me it's a typo

it is obviously not a typo - i told you that you were misinterpreting that post when you brought it up

[Bookitty]

Yeah, I'm crazy about you. You're rude, abusive and unhelpful. What's not to love?

I get that you're scared of Skullduggery. I don't actually blame you.

If you think he's scum, what is killing off one more townie going to prove? Assuming you were a townie, there are only a few options after a no-lynch:

Bookitty, Saki, zMuffin
Bookitty, Skull, zMuffin
Bookitty, Saki, Skull

If you think I'm scum, only the first helps you. If you think Skull is scum, you should be making the case today, because Skull's survival only matters if you can convince me you're right. In the third option, you're cleared but Saki has to convince me that Skull is scum. Don't you think you'd be better at that?

If you think Saki is scum, why won't you take the deal he offered?

Meh, I'm tired of you. Talk to Saki.

[zMuffinMan]

it is not about definitively "proving" anything. it is about observing who is killed and playing it safe