Mini Normal 2148 (Post Game)

[notscience]

Oh it definitely is. But it’s where the day was inevitably going anyways so fuck it right

[votato]

fortunately a replacement should buy us a bit of time while the replacement catches up.

[notscience]

Nah the slots scum bc clidd siteflaked!!!!1!!1!1!

[stungun0404]

It is not bad, because early on I noticed a drastic difference in the number of questions you asked in a few of your town games vs. the number you had asked in here through a certain number of posts, which was suggestive that maybe you were not curious enough because you are scum.

Y’all rely way too much on so called meta.

Well, you can say that, but I do want to at least point out what I mean that may end up being AI here.

Your first 153 posts here, I found 9 possible sorting questions.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... %5B%5D=150
In your most recent towngame there, I found 26 possible sorting questions.

When there's a gap like that, meta might help you solve someone. Not that it's conclusive by any means, but it is something to keep in mind.

[farside22]

Meta's good for broad stroke impressions like activity. When used to compare against RECENT and LOTS of games.

Notions that comparing "how many questions" and "bitchiness" between games is fruitful is a waste a time. Just finding comparable games is difficult--each game is different with different stages of gameplay, different personalities, different pushes, etc. People play differently in different circumstances. So just finding a comparable game isn't just "oh he was town here," it needs to be sufficiently similar gaming circumstances. AND THEN you need a sample size greater than fucking one. Jesus.

Not only that, but assuming you get a bunch of recent actually comparable games, and you can point out that there are real play differences, the question then is is that different AI?


Rather than doing all of that, you've compared me to a game where I've replaced in (just lol) and farside has compared my "bitchiness" to a game where nobody who I read as town pushed a shit case on me.




TLDR: meta is trash, because everyone is using it poorly.

Still find your reaction to BM to be over the top and unnecessary. You were happy with BM's response but keep your vote on him.
How that can be read as town to anyone is a mystery to me.

[stungun0404]

*26 in your first 153 posts

[votato]

well its only day 1. could you do me a favor and do the same thing with me stungun?

[Green Crayons]

Still find your reaction to BM to be over the top and unnecessary. You were happy with BM's response but keep your vote on him.
How that can be read as town to anyone is a mystery to me.

I said I would consider it. I maintain that his response is plausible on its face, but the context in which he gave it is still suspicious.

[farside22]

GC references:

Spoiler:

I'd find it strange if BM flips scum.

Let's flip BM.

I think BM is more likely to flip scum than town. His explanation for reading scum's NAI meta analysis as AI is plausible on its face. In context though, that plausibility doesn't undermine the other suspicions that point to scum:

-He took forever to provide his AI justification, although he supposedly thought of it ages ago

- He took plenty of time to discredit my suspicions as strawmanning without actually just engaging with my suspicions and providing his AI justification, suggesting delay to come up with a plausible reason after the fact

- He's saying BOTH (1) he had other suspicions for voting votato so we shouldn't suspect him for this thin reasoning (supposed other reasons that he never voiced, so how are we supposed to know that?) AND (2) it was an early vote so we're expecting too much from him in terms of reasoning, which are contradictory defenses that defeat each other. EITHER we should give him a pass because he had other, stronger reasons to vote votato OR we should give him a pass because it was early D1 so he didn't need to have strong reasons to vote votato. It looks like scum slinging whatever defenses he can.

That’s not a half bad explanation.

It doesn’t erase the fact that it took you this long to actually voice it.

A. That wasn't the only reason for my vote - just one that GC has tried to strawman and attack me for.

Also this is a lie.

You didn’t give any other reason for your votato vote.

BM references:

Spoiler:

Votato votes are lazy. I bet one of y'all are scum.

Challenge accepted!

VOTE: Votato

I like the meta analysis by stungun, clearly nobody is getting behind Green Crayons, and I think I'm townleaning Dunnstral. And seriously, voting BM on Day 1? This dude has run out of ideas...

^^^ I don't see how that makes farside town. It does strengthen Dunn being scum.

I felt the way I felt. I can't help my pings on players.

There should be more votes on Dunn too with your follow up spoilers post.


@NS: Who else are you suspicious of? I see a lot of filler coming from you but nothing stating a scum read. Or even following of anyone.
BM: Hey BM, how are you? Taking some lumps I see......would you mind voting Dunn and we can chat later about if you are scum or town and about play style later?
Thanks!!

Yep yep, usual fare!

I'm not so keen on Dunn
Maybe he's just not scum
Annie did tell me so
and scum is votato



I'm worried about this "play style" chat...are you gonna bash me too?

jesus… do I even have to respond to Green Crayons 'case' on me?

It's been repeated ad nauseum (because GC apparently thinks he can get away with plugging something as weak as this instead of actually scumhunting).

His vote on votato looks made up.

First, his vote:

Votato votes are lazy. I bet one of y'all are scum.

Challenge accepted!

VOTE: Votato

I like the meta analysis by stungun

, clearly nobody is getting behind Green Crayons, and I think I'm townleaning Dunnstral. And seriously, voting BM on Day 1? This dude has run out of ideas...

He reads votato as scum only because of your meta analysis. But your meta analysis specifically said it was a wash on alignment, and so wasn't AI:

The fact Stungun doesn't think it's AI, doesn't mean I don't think it's AI. I believe I said, as above, "I like the analysis", as opposed to "I agree with the analysis in it's entirety and share Stungun's resulting conclusion". I did in fact think it was AI, and voted for that reason.

I think if you were town you would have thought about this for more than 5 seconds, and tried asking me why I felt it was AI? Rather than just pretending I didn't, and am a complete imbecile (which incidentally would have been NAI anyway for me ).

Also took a weird stance on BM that his vote on Votato "looked made up" in 421, which does not exactly seem like the best reason to vote BM if you ask me. Also, I do not know if it is a natural town instinct to come to a conclusion that a vote "is made up", just seems like a forced scum conclusion, but maybe I am wrong there.

Maybe if you look harder, you'll see I've been suspecting Battle Mage for a while.

Maybe if you look *even harder*, you'll see why.

And lol @ my justification for voting BM apparently went completely over your head in your pursuit to vote me.

I think this is important, btw.

BM switched to votato. His only reason for suspecting votato as scum is because of stun's meta analysis of votato.

The problem is that stun's meta analysis--by stun's own explanation!--is that it doesn't show that votato is scum. It just shows that he is not town.

I've answered this above - clearly I thought the analysis of Stun was helpful, but didn't agree with the conclusion. And it doesn't seem like you've been suspecting me for a while at all - you voted for me because I voted for you right?
I'm pretty sure someone of your experience didn't actually buy your own case.

He seems mildly town.

Let’s focus on BM.

Who doesn’t have a legitimate scum read on votato—BM voted because of stun’s meta analysis that stun said was not AI—but BM voted votato anyway.

Red light scum alert.

Again!? Beating a dead horse here pal. I suppose you wouldn't know if my scumread was legitimate or not, because you haven't bothered to ask me or probe my explanation, you've just set up an implausible strawman.

Even if you were right, I'm not really clear why you think being an idiot would make me scum - inability to read is not something I normally consider AI in and of itself.

VOTE: GreenCrayons (in case I wasn't already)

See there is a lot missing with this strong scum read. It boils down to BM's vote on votato and that's the extent of the reason that holds that wagon so firmly.
BM said a few other things a post later about votato that GC didn't comment about.
Now because of replacement GC is holding onto a weak scum read and pushing no reason's for any other scum reads or analysts of anyone this game.
Which BM calls GC on in the spoiler post above. GC also says he finds the explanation fine but only holds his vote on bm for taking time to respond. Which is NAI.

[Not_Mafia]

[farside22]

You willing to hammer an unclaimed player? Honestly I'm surprised you haven't voted him by now.

[stungun0404]

well its only day 1. could you do me a favor and do the same thing with me stungun?

sure, 12 possible sorting questions in 86 posts this game.

that's 3 more than GC and he has nearly double the amount of posts as you (over 150).

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11911353
in this game as scum, you had 4 in your entire 60 game posts.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34221
but in this scum game, you had 21 possible sorting questions in your first 86 posts.

that is highly inconsistent, so I really can't clear you off this aspect. it shows you play differently between scum games. :-/

[notscience]

Isn’t he literally the first vote on the wagon

[farside22]

Isn’t he literally the first vote on the wagon

God I swear I thought he was voting someone else.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I have decided to pause the day timer at 1 day, 15 hours, 39 minutes until a replacement for clidd has been found, or until 2/3rds of the players request for the day to continue. A vc will be coming shortly.

[Jake The Wolfie]

"These humans.. bore me. Instead of bloodshed and evil, they are trying to be cooperative and sensible. I must do something."

Vote Count 1.13

clidd (5):

Not_Mafia, Green Crayons, [Malakittens], bob3141, votato

Dunnstral (2):

DoctorPepper, HK 50

Green Crayons (2):

clidd, farside22

HK 50(2):

Dunnstral, stungun0404

notscience (1):

geraintm

Not voting (1):

notscience

---

Mod Notes:

Majority is 7 players.

Day 1 has begun and is paused at 1 day, 15 hours, 39 minutes.
Currently looking for a replacement of clidd.
Doctor Pepper is V/LA for (expired on 2020-06-22 06:06:00).
Malakittens is V/LA for (expired on 2020-06-24 00:00:00) and has given their vote to notscience.[/area]

[Not_Mafia]

Or until the slot is lynched

[votato]

malakittens is in brackets because notsci controls the vote?

[farside22]

malakittens is in brackets because notsci controls the vote?

yup

[Not_Mafia]

I don't think you should be allowed to proxy your vote in normals

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

[geraintm]

I don't think you should be allowed to proxy your vote in normals

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

Agree

[notscience]

It’s mostly for vla I’m assuming.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Please welcome Porkens to the town! I will add 24 hours to the clock if they request it.

This is a replacement of clidd.

[Jake The Wolfie]

All the players shall ever hear are the whispers of insanity, as insomnia takes hold...

Vote Count 1.14

Porkens (5):

Not_Mafia, Green Crayons, [Malakittens], bob3141, votato

Dunnstral (2):

DoctorPepper, HK 50

Green Crayons (2):

Porkens, farside22

HK 50(2):

Dunnstral, stungun0404

notscience (1):

geraintm

Not voting (1):

notscience

---

Mod Notes:

Majority is 7 players.

Day 1 has begun and will end in (expired on 2020-06-24 21:18:29).

HK 50 has been prodded and has (expired on 2020-06-24 05:39:29) to respond before I look for a replacement.

Malakittens is V/LA for (expired on 2020-06-24 00:00:00) and has given their vote to notscience.[/area]

[farside22]

Porkens: You are the major wagon. Lots of people are being stubborn, so you may want to either extend the day or claim.