[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[Hectic]

The Grass is Always Greener on the Other Side

3 Mafia Neighbours

11 Town Neighbours

Pregame, mafia create 2 neighbourhoods consisting of 7 people in each. The mafia cannot put all 3 of them into the same neighbourhood.
Each time a player is lynched, mafia must pick a player from the neighbourhood opposite to the one the player lynched frequented, and move them into the lynched player's neighbourhood. The mafia can never have all of them be present in the same neighbourhood at the end of the night, this includes when one is lynched and they are down to 2 members.

[Hectic]

The Grass is Always Greener on the Other Side

3 Mafia Neighbours

11 Town Neighbours

Pregame, mafia create 2 neighbourhoods consisting of 7 people in each. The mafia cannot put all 3 of them into the same neighbourhood.
Each time a player is lynched, mafia must pick a player from the neighbourhood opposite to the one the player lynched frequented, and move them into the lynched player's neighbourhood. The mafia can never have all of them be present in the same neighbourhood at the end of the night, this includes when one is lynched and they are down to 2 members.

Thought on this? Unsure how broken it is. Town get a lot of info over time based on what players are in what neighbourhoods in each phase.

[Hectic]

I realised I'm only allowed to mod Micros, so I made this instead:

TRUST NO ONE

3 Lone Wolves

2 Town Puppetmasters

4 Vanilla Townies

• Wolves
  do not possess any form of private communication, but are informed of each other.
  
• The
  Puppermasters
  share a
  Neighbourhood
  with one another, which may be used at all times.
  
• Each
  Lone Wolf
  and
  Puppermaster
  individually submit a target each night.
  
• If any player is targeted an
  even
  (excluding 0) number of times, that player will die. Otherwise, targets are unaffected.
  
• If the number of
  Wolves
  equal the number of
  Town
  , and this is the first time this has occurred, there will be an additional night.
  • Remaining
    Puppetmasters
    will collectively submit
    3
    targets during this night, rather than 1 each.
    Wolves
    will submit targets as normal.
    
  • Following this night, if the number of
    Wolves
    still equals or now outnumbers the number of
    Town
    , the
    Wolves
    win. Otherwise, the game continues.
    
  • Past this, the
    Wolves
    win as normal by equalling or outnumbering the
    Town
    .

[Hectic]

Alternate variant:

STRINGS ATTACHED

2 Mafia Manipulators

2 Town Puppetmasters

5 Vanilla Townies

• Mafia
  share a private topic, which may be used at all times.
  
• The
  Puppermasters
  share a
  Neighbourhood
  with one another, which may be used at all times.
  
• Each
  Mafia Manipulator
  and
  Puppermaster
  individually submit a target each night.
  
• If any player is targeted an
  even
  (excluding 0) number of times, that player will die. Otherwise, targets are unaffected.
  
• Mafia
  win when they equal or outnumber the
  Town
  .

[Hectic]

No strings attached is super imbalanced, in a way that makes it possible to challenge if it qualifies as mafia. Manipulators differ from puppetmasters only in whether it's ok for some vanilla townies to be alive when they claim victory (Puppetmasters: that's ok. Manipulators: that's not ok.) and how they interact with the game's parity ruling (Mafia win at a parity of puppetmasters and manipulators, puppetmasters do not.) The parity rule is meant to feel unified with the rest of the game rather differentiate two factions only once the game reaches a distant endpoint.

The most popular classic definition of mafia/a mafia variant is "a social deduction game where the uninformed minority roots out an informed minority" and since the town puppetmasters have a symmetric amount of partnership info it's not quite mafia. In 2 Mafia, 2 Masons, 5 VT, the idea that the mafia will probably usually fracture the masonry with the factional NK is what makes the setup remain mafia, since this expectation is symmetric here and the vig shot can also work as a doc shot that can no longer be relied upon. (Some designers can/should?/could/would argue that the possibility the nightkills are super unlucky for the scum in such a setup is a problem even so. Not the social deduction game of 2 Mafia, 2 Mason, 1 VT is rather unmafia, both groups claim to be the Mason pairing and express willingness to vote the other mason pairing, and the game hinges 50/50 on the choice the VT makes between voting those two groups, but traditional scumhunting doesn't work, both players are refusing to vote a partner and not "trying to sort" the other group. Social deduction from the mafia leaking schaudenfreude that their victory would not be shared with the VT is the only social dynamic to deduce, which is a valid social deduction dynamic but not the one featured in the core concept of mafia.)

Right, so the main issue being how the Puppetmasters and Manipulators are equal powerlevel/informed-wise. And yeah I didn't think of it that way, but I suppose you could just see the Puppetmasters as a second mafia which is okay with some vanilla town being alive at the end. Thanks, that was enlightening. Almost too bright actually, I'm gonna invest in some sunglasses.

Trust No One is very much a mafia game. The town is informed, but the mafia are Even More Informed. Like Animal Farm where all the animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others, you know? The concern going into it is that is 6:3 Town:Scum and WHEW. You can make it work but man at a base level that tends to be strong for the scums WHEW.
Balance is like at least a little overrated though, that isn't actually even my number one concern with it! My number one concern with it is that it incentivizes bussing. General open setup theorycraft consensus is that mafia is fun when bussing is incentivized about as much as mountainous and if you make changes that shift that balance you prefer to go the direction of making bussing more costly rather than less. Since your 3-3 rule (that is clearly meant to address the overall out-the-starting-gate concern that 6:3 is WHEW) can't trigger if scum make a bus the setup definitely incentivizes bussing more than mountainous. No bueno, it is more interesting when scum get to ride the waves of their own bus/bloc meta etc.

I would use an equally brutal detriment to the one you have and let it trigger whether scum bussed or not. 3:6 is STRONG. Viggy doc masonry is very strong. But 3:6 is STARONG. You should be ok with something less conditional, like, "scum picks a player pregame, that player dies immediately following the third death of the game" or have that player picked on the fly, or have the same special wow the Puppetmasters dinged level 6 and are ulting thing special night immediately after the third death. There's other things you can do, but I think it is preferred if they impact all game branches instead of calling one possibility branch out specifically. That was in some ways the criticism that was leveled at Fusion Mafia that we just finished: that it's balanced for computers perhaps but maybe suffers in how some branches of game outcomes totally ignore the power-rebalance-mechanic. (I think this one is scumsided for computers so you have some room to work)

How is the condition I've changed it too now? Where the Puppetmasters pop off and ult the first time the Wolves gain parity with the Town, regardless of how many bus passes they've bought. It addresses your concern where town are guaranteed to get this benefit, regardless of how the wolves play it.
Thing is though, I'm starting to think the game isn't very fun for VTs. Puppetmasters and Wolves have a lot to think about, and lot of WIFOM to breach, while VTs just spectate and play a mostly regular game of mafia, other than the WHEWiness of 6:3.

[Hectic]

Is this fun? I'm working on the assumption 4/8 is balanced for nightless, so I'm adding 2 town to "compensate" for the 2 week deadline + chaotic voting.

Crossfire

4 Mafia

10 Town

Nightless.
Each player may vote for as many players as they like (a single vote on each).
Votes are not reset after a lynch occurs (so combo lynches can occur if someone else was on L-1 with the person who was lynched not voting for that person).
Deadline for the entire game is 14 days. Town lose if the deadline is reached.

Mafia win by achieving parity with the town. Town win when all mafia are dead.

[Hectic]

Well, only having a fortnight to lynch everyone I see as a handicap. Isn't that a little

too

short of a deadline? So multi-voting and not having to replace votes helps gets lynches quicker.
Would it work better as a 5/12 large game?

[Hectic]

Death Curse

5 Mafia

15 Town

Nightless.
Each day, players vote to give someone a scroll containing a death curse. That person must pass the scroll to a second person, who must pass it to a third. Then, the 3 players who came in contact with the scroll simultaneously die and are flipped.
This repeats until mafia have parity or majority over the town, or all mafia are dead.

I want to /in this to the large theme queue, is it balanced? In theory, mafia can get up to 4 "nightkills" as long as they aren't the 3rd scroll bearer.

[Hectic]

The weird thing about making it a 14/5, is that it makes the endgame quite different. If 1 scum remains in the final 5 for 15/5, town has a 3/5 in getting them. If 1 scum remains in the final 4 for 14/5, town has a 3/4 of getting them. It's weirdly more favourable for town in that instance.

Of course, scum can achieve parity earlier with 14/5, given they can have 2 members alive in the final 4 and outright win.

How about givung scum the best of both worlds? Keep it as a 15/5 and give scum a factional 1-shot dayvig? One which they can use at any time on anyone not holding a scroll, and which reset the votes and extends the deadline by 48 hours. This means they can use it when at 11 if they have 5 alive to achieve parity, or at 5 if they have 2 alive to achieve parity. Or they could just shut down someone early on who's gonna be a lot of trouble for them.

[Hectic]

I want to run an achievement hunter style game, where you can get achievements (heroics) and then spend them on powers. Everyone is given a list of heroics which they can try and get by posting in the thread, clues are in the name. Heroics can be silver or gold, the latter being harder to achieve. For example:

no u

Spoiler:

OMGUSing someone (silver)

Happy Green

Spoiler:

Posting a emoji (silver)

Did I stutter?

Spoiler:

Vote for a player you were already voting (silver)

An adaptation

Spoiler:

Quote another player's post and edit their words (gold)

Are these numbers balanced?

13 town

,

4 mafia

80 Silver Heroics

25 Gold Heroics

20 of those silvers, and 5 of those golds are only introduced on day 2.

3 Silver

= Nominate shot

5 Silver

= New Neighbourhood shot

6 Silver

= Add player to neighbourhood shot

3 Gold

= Jailkeeper shot

3 Gold

= Bulletproof vest (passive 1 shot)

5 Gold

= Day Vigilante shot

Setup specific rules:

• Each day has a choose your own adventure question. There are 10 answers with 1 answer rewarding gold, 3 rewarding silver. Players are rewarded at the end of the day.
  
• On even days, mafia must select 1/3 of the players (rounded up) to be available to be voted. Everyone else is immune from votes unless
  nominated.
  
  
• Mafia may hunt for heroics in their scum PT if they wish to do so.
  
• Town get executions and mafia get nightkills as normal.

[Hectic]

Could also enforce a posting limit, or a general no excessive spam rule (like a user filling up an entire page)

[Hectic]

How about:

100 Silver Heroics

30 Gold Heroics

25 of those silvers, and 8 of those golds are only introduced on day 2.

3 Silver

= Nominate shot

4 Silver

= New Neighbourhood shot

5 Silver

= Add player to neighbourhood shot

2 Gold

= Jailkeeper shot

3 Gold

= Bulletproof vest (passive 1 shot)

4 Gold

= Day Vigilante shot

I expect a small subset of the players to take heroic hunting a lot more seriously than others, so I expect some dayvigs to be bought even though 30/17 means an average of 1.76 gold per player

[Hectic]

Alright, what about:

Once 50% of all silvers have been attained, town gains another execution for the day
Once 50% of all golds have been attained, town gains another execution for the day

That's 2 more executions for town at some point in the game

[Hectic]

Gotcha, Jungle (your achievement unlocked game is what inspired this if it wasn't obvious btw)

80 Silver Heroics

24 Gold Heroics

10 new silvers and 3 new golds introduced per day

3 Silver

= Nominate shot

4 Silver

= New Neighbourhood with someone (day)

5 Silver

= Add player to neighbourhood (day)

5 Silver

= Heroics cop (see amount of silvers and golds a player has)

2 Gold

= Jailkeeper shot

3 Gold

= Bulletproof vest (passive 1 shot)

4 Gold

= Watcher shot

4 Gold

= Day Vigilante shot (public and must be used immediately)

+

Once 50% of all silvers have been attained, town gains another execution for the day
Once 50% of all golds have been attained, town gains another execution for the day

[Hectic]

lol oops

I thought you were in the Professor Moriarty mod account for some reason

[Hectic]

I'll make the watcher cost 3 gold instead and roll with that I think

[Hectic]

Alright

The playerlist that joins will probably be townsided by nature so I'm sure it'll be fine