Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[Sucrose]

/confirm

[Sucrose]

Vote: Dripping Goofball

For ending RVS so damn soon.

But if it's any consolation, your username reminds me of slimy tennis balls, not boogers.

[Sucrose]

Why is ending rvs a scumtell?

Oh, it's not, necessarily. I was only mildly miffed.

[Sucrose]

Why were you miffed?

Yes or no - why the waffling answer?

I said why, because RVS ended early. And ending RVS isn't in itself a scumtell, unless it's done in a scummy way.

[Sucrose]

Was it done in a scummy way?

No.

[Sucrose]

About the RVS thing... Not really? Usually you want to get out of RVS as quickly as possible, I find. I mean, I've found a few minor tells that occur only in RVS, but if RVS ends naturally then it's nice that it's ended, and that was pretty natural to me.

That said.

Vote: Piggy

I do agree with the accusations, and I really dislike that she hasn't actually done anything about them, and that she hasn't moved her vote to try to actually hunt :/

Hmm.

Unvote, Vote: Seastorm

"Really dislikes" that Piggy hasn't done anything to defend herself against accusations, or scumhunt, within the space of a page and a few hours. I'm not sure what Seastorm expects as a defense for a "lol guys I'm often scummy" opening post, or how much scumhunting she would expect out of Piggy at this point when the only non-RVS conversation has been about her own two posts. Not to mention Piggy could, you know, just not have been online. If you're "really disappointed" by these actions at that point it smells to me of scum opportunism more than actual town emotion.

[Sucrose]

Agh, last sentence should read "really dislike," don't mean to misquote.

[Sucrose]

K. Caught up.

I really don't like brandi's posts and i def. don't agree with her theory but i don't think she's scum.

I like amrun's attack on sucrose. She's backtracking with very minimal pressure. I also don't really like the vote on seastorm after seastorm said she'd be v/la for the next 3/4 days.

Right now, my biggest scum read is springlullaby. She votes brandi because she was talking about RVS. Spring, does talking about theory make someone scum? She completely ignored the wagon dynamics that are going on, or anything else that has happened in the game so far, to vote on something insignificant.

Unvote, Vote: Springlullaby

It was an RVS vote. There was nothing to backtrack from. I didn't actually think Goofball's post was scummy and never implied so.

Yes, yes, I know, I made an RVS vote while declaring that RVS was over. It's a paradox.

spring voted because she thought brandi's RVS theory discussion seemed fake. That's not insignificant, because scum

do

want to be seen talking without actually saying anything. I don't really have a read on brandi yet, though.

[Sucrose]

Oh, and Seastorm is only going to be gone for another 3-4 days, and the players in this game are far too experienced to run up someone who's on V/LA.

[Sucrose]

Fujiko, it's not really contradictory because i'm not calling her suspicious, just trying to get more of a feel for her reasoning behind her reads. camn just put a vote up, she didn't give any reads. as i said before, votes without reads are valuable in garnering reactions and driving up pressure.

Sucrose, if it was an rvs/ not serious vote, why did you respond to amrun in a way that was serious? why not just say it was rvs when you were asked about it?

Well, at this point I guess I should have. It was my opening post and I'd have thought that declaring that DG's name reminded me of slimy tennis balls rather than boogers and then saying I was "mildly miffed" would have made it obvious that it wasn't exactly a serious vote. Amrun asked me a serious theory question so I answered seriously.

Also, don't you think your reasoning for springs vote is exactly what spring herself did? Find something to talk about without really talking about much that had gone on in the thread so far. Brandi did more than just talk about theory, she defended Piggy, which meant she was taking a stance, not just throwing general sh!t out there for the sake of it. Spring on the other hand, had more of a fake reaction, because she pointed out something that wasn't scummy and avoided talk of anything else.

No, making a vote and stating the reason why is the opposite of talking about nothing, even if you don't agree with the reasoning.

[Sucrose]

VOTE: DrippingGoofBall
Your screen name makes me think of boogers

You have got to be kidding me.

VOTE: Eidolon

It took me a little to understand this statement, but DrippingGoofBall has started out great, justifying this response. The problem I see is that after that you'd expect camn to follow up to this. Regardless of allignment she could make this vote. If she would be scum DGB was the person she'd want to buddy up to or stay away from. If she were town she'd focus on DGB as well, discuss what she brought. With this vote she already gives away she's focussed on DGB, she expects stuff from there. The fact that she stays away from DGB makes me think Camn is scum here.

vote camn

What? I'm a little sleepy so maybe I'm just not following you here, but Camn made this RVS vote

before

DGB posted anything. Presumably DGB and Camn have had some games together which caused Camn to RVS vote in reaction to Eidolon smearing (heh) her good name, but other than being a slight indicator that Camn is focused on DGB, I don't see how you can determine

anything

else about Camn from this at this point, since her only other post has been that vote on me. Your sentence "The fact that she stays away from DBG makes me think Camn is scum here." seems to come out of thin air. Camn has only made two posts.

I wouldn't call this analysis speculative

or

interesting, I'd call it completely bizarre. Question: Are you familiar with RVS?

[Sucrose]

hey, Lyanna Stark isn't on the player list?

Theme character of Tammy's. Accidental post.

[Sucrose]

I always get a bit suspicious when people agree with me too much in a mafia game, and Sucrose's post 80, which mirrors my post 60, even to the use of similar wording (opportunistic/opportunism) near the end, is a case in point. The timeline of the posts is odd too:

Post 53, Seastorm votes Piggy
Post 60, I vote Seastorm
Post 63, Piggy replies to Seastorm
Post 64, Sucrose posts, not mentioning the above
Post 66, Seastorm replies to Piggy
Post 67, Piggy unvotes her self-vote
Posts 68and 69, Seastorm jokes with Piggy and says she was about to reconsider her vote
Two more posts, 70 and 73, by Sucrose, still not mentioning Seastorm.
post 74, Amrun votes Sucrose
post 75, camn votes Sucrose
And only then does Sucrose make her post 80 voting Seastorm. All in all, it looks like her vote is promted more by the attention she is getting from Amrun and Camn than actual suspicion of Seastorm.

Why didn't you have anything to say about the Piggy situation? This is literally your only post so far, and the Piggy thing was way more attention gathering than Seastorm. You don't have anything to say about it?

My vote on Seastorm

was

a comment on Piggy's wagon. I thought she was going for low-hanging fruit. Apart from Piggy herself there were only three votes on the wagon before Sea voted. DrippingGoofball's was at least partially a joke, Arun's could have been genuine but looked more like a reaction test, Brandi's could also have been genuine. In other words it looked like a normal randomish bandwagon to start the day. Seastorm's vote was different though. That's why it got my attention.

I've got a few more people to comment on but I've run out of time so they'll have to wait for tomorrow now.

You're right, I was sheeping your point, I only noticed the incident on re-read. It was a good find. I'm doubtful I would have noticed how few hours had passed between Piggy's post and Sea's on my own, because I usually never pay attention to timestamps.

[Sucrose]

I'm a little torn on the Piggy wagon. She's ubern00b, whatever she is, and her posts are legitimately scummy. On the other hand, I'm leery of D1 ubern00b-easy-target.

I too badly want to hear Brandi's reads.

I'm also waiting to hear back from Flinter. I think Camn is town.

[Sucrose]

Sucrose, what is your read on me?

I was about to change my vote to piggy but you reminded me how scummy you are.

Town.

And I don't want to move my vote off the seastorm wagon just yet. Just a mild hunch about something.

[Sucrose]

About what?

I'm waiting for replies.

[Sucrose]

Well, if Piggy's scum there's no daytalk.

[Sucrose]

Yeah Dayvigs don't cause Twilight so we can still talk.

[Sucrose]

Alright,

unvote

. I was hoping to talk to Mathgirl about why she was still RVS voting, but it's obvious why now.

I knew the Dayvig was fake, I was just trying to play along. I think Tammy is town, and her defense of City Electric makes sense. I thought Eidolon's response to the gambit seemed fairly town. I'm leery of Telo.

[Sucrose]

I don't know why you're still going on about that RVS vote. I tend to think you're town because I think your persistent attacking me is genuine rather than opportunistic, although that might be partly meta, and I don't have a problem with the rest of your posts.

I said that I read DGB as town. Null for sucrose at this point (I have not read anything further than this post)
and cityelectrics recent post at the time of me saying that. her vote and her reasoning.

How is it that you have a null on me? A page back you told Spring that you thought that aforementioned vote that I put on DGB at the end of RVS was serious. That was long after I'd clearly explained over the course of several posts that it wasn't a serious vote. Either you (should) think I'm lying or you haven't been reading the thread. Explain please.

[Sucrose]

Oops, meant to quote Amrun #267 for the first part, sorry about that.

Sucrose is trying her best to be neutral and not offend anyone; makes a vote based on an entirely false premise, then backs down on it immediately. Knowing I am voting her, after seeing me express suspicion of piggy, buddies me.

[Sucrose]

Sucrose is trying her best to be neutral and not offend anyone;

makes a vote based on an entirely false premise, then backs down on it immediately.

Knowing I am voting her, after seeing me express suspicion of piggy, buddies me.

When did she do that? I think you're town amrun, but i don't have a scum read on Sucrose. I'll take a look at her ISO.

She's convinced that my dumb RVS vote was dead serious, and that apparently I "backed down on it immediately" when I said so.

[Sucrose]

Oh yeah.... I'm still not sure why you answered her in a serious way if it wasn't a serious vote, but ehhh... i wouldn't say its overwhelmingly scum motivated.

I see in your iso that you say you are leery of telo, ask a few questions to amrun and brandi. do you lean scum on any of these people? why the lack of pressure?

I only answered seriously because she asked me a theory question, which I answered seriously. Obviously I should have made it more clear that I was joking with the previous post. But I've already said all of this earlier in the thread.

Telo's reaction to DGB's gambit was the first thing from her that really caught my eye as scummy. It's not enough to vote on. Like I said, I don't think Amrun's attacks on me are scum motivated, I don't think she's faking it, thus town. I'm waiting patiently for a reply from brandi.

[Sucrose]

I don't know why you're still going on about that RVS vote. I tend to think you're town because I think your persistent attacking me is genuine rather than opportunistic, although that might be partly meta, and I don't have a problem with the rest of your posts.

I said that I read DGB as town. Null for sucrose at this point (I have not read anything further than this post)
and cityelectrics recent post at the time of me saying that. her vote and her reasoning.

How is it that you have a null on me? A page back you told Spring that you thought that aforementioned vote that I put on DGB at the end of RVS was serious. That was long after I'd clearly explained over the course of several posts that it wasn't a serious vote. Either you (should) think I'm lying or you haven't been reading the thread. Explain please.

I thought your vote was serious, yes, and I find the reasoning to vote someone for such to be town-motivated.
I said that it looked serious to me, and was believable, not that it was actually serious (as you stated yourself)
However, your play thus far hasn't really been the best otherwise. You are likely town but it's not a solid read- thus null.

I'm likely town but also null? What a bunch of wish-wash.

Vote: Brandi

. Sorry, haven't liked a single one of your posts.

[Sucrose]

Leaning town isn't null, and that's not what you said anyway.

[Sucrose]

Alright, I just did a read-through, because I admit I was/am having a problem: The leading players just aren't very scummy. Now, maybe everyone in this game is just a wonderful player, but I wager virtually all of the (meaningful) discussion has been argument between townies. After finishing my readthrough, I think the scum in the game are mostly hiding in the corners, if you get my drift. Not lurking, just not driving discussion. For example:

Fujiko
Bunnylover
City Electric

The only exception to this is Telo.

Thoughts on individual players: I apologize for the lack of links, I was writing in notepad and it would take a very long time to create links for all the numbered posts.

Piggy: #213. Honestly, seeing how noobish Piggy is, I can't really blame her for not having any scum reads in this game. I actually think it's a town tell, scum would try and make something up.

Fujiko: seems image conscious straight out of the gate. #141, weak, soft. #208 image-concious again. #226, an easy vote. #325, a bad reason for voting.

Amrun: Active scumhunter. Still think she's town for reasons I've listed before.

DGB: I have a hard time believing DGB is scum. DGB has decided Brandi is already not scum at the beginning. In regards to Seastorm, Scum don't make dingaling posts?

Seastorm: I'm STILL suspicious of Seastorm for #53

Camn: Town. Her vote on me near the beginning is obvious fishing for reactions, it in of itself is not scummy at all.

springlullaby: seems fine. #110 seems fine. I think spring is town.

Mathgirl: #85 Mathgirl posts about players, but with no suspicions.

Telo: #91. Two pages out of RVS, Telo is looking for a reason to switch from her RVS vote/practically apologizing for still having the RVS vote. Also, she "hates changing her vote once she's placed it on someone." The vote she's talking about is an RVS vote. Does this make sense? In #192, "As soon as I have a strong scum read I'll be placing my vote there and it will very likely stay there until the end of the day" Does this post make any damn sense to anyone?

Eidolon: #93. Eidolon likes the seastorm votes but doesn't vote herself. Fear of being seen wagoning? In #100 I don't like her reasons for voting spring (or her attack on me). Seems to misrep Spring's vote as simply a vote because she was talking about theory. And at the beginning Eidolon really can't tell what DGB is doing (trying to lead the town)? But Eidolon is a fairly new player, so maybe she really can't. Eidolon's #116 is fairly town. Don't like Eidolon's #119. She is paying a lot of attention to the game, which is town-y. By the time I finished my read I had a town-read on her.

Brandi: I do not like Brandi's reasoning in #95 at all. Also she uses a lot of buzzwords. Brandi talks a lot of theory and very vaguely tries to cast suspicion on DGB in #98. Brandi seems highly sensitive to Spring's attacks on her, despite the fact that spring is virtually the only one attacking her early on. Brandi says some of the

weirdest

things, but that's a null tell. In #312, she finds my recent posts "iffy" but doesn't elaborate.

Tammy: Tammy's thoughts seem very town. Tammy is so town. In #149 DGB thinks Lyanna AND Tammy are town. Hahaha.

Flinter: In #118, makes a vote for something that is literally completely untrue, yes, because she had misread, but then she makes up a whole justification to go along with her vote that arises because she misread. I don't like it at all. In #120, probes. Oddly enough I think her #253 seems townish.

Bunnylover: Doesn't seem to have any original thoughts. High on my scumlist. #194, isn't trying, making excuses saying she'll post later, #205 is her promised content post, a whole 5 lines long, in which she jumps on the easiest target in the game (Piggy), who I now agree is probably town.

City Electric: #139, self concious. "But I tend to jump on weird little things" she says in smalltext after making an accusation. And then the same thing on her read of PG too! Hmm, plus, she makes an attack on a wagon that's on me (a townie) with two players who I have town reads on. Easy target. Don't like it. City Electric's attack on Camn for the no-reason vote on me is bad. City Electric's vote on DGB for the Dayvig gambit is so very very bad. She doesn't appear to even THINK about why DGB might pull a gambit, she just goes "You're lying! *Vote*. But, as I said, before, Tammy does do a good job of pointing out why this is actually a newb-town reaction, and I'm almost certain Tammy is town, so...

Huntress: I don't like huntress, but maybe the fact she's been attacking me is clouding my judgement. I do like her #224, which seemed townish.

RachMarie: Ah, the very last person to post content. #162 is setting off alarms on MY scumdar. Nothing else of note. Null read.

....

So, Fujiko and Telo are both highly scummy. Fujiko has been hardly there in any of her posts, by which I mean she's done nothing that would draw attention to herself,

or

anyone else. This, to me, is a major scum tell. Hell, I think Fujiko and Telo could be scum together, easy.

Unvote

. By the time I got the end of page 15 I have to agree with the others that Brandi is probably not faking that, which means she's probably town. I'm not completely sold on it, but it's a major town-tell.

Vote: Bunnylover

. She's scummy and pressure is needed.

[Sucrose]

Not really, I wrote them in the order I saw posts by the person worth noting.

[Sucrose]

*They LOVE me. They really really LOVE me!* In my best Sally Fields voice. Skimmed very quickly. Weekend prod dodge post. What's the count? I saw lots of questions for me so I'll read again from my nook when possible and then be back no later than Tuesday to answer.

Do you not have a regular computer?

Shit, forgot about mafia.
Post incoming.

Nice timing.

[Sucrose]

Sucrose, what kind of replies were you looking for before you unvoted me? I don't think you ever talked about them.

I was hoping to talk to Mathgirl, and specifically why she was keeping her RVS vote on the lead wagon. I didn't say that was what I was waiting for because it would defeat the purpose. But she replaced out, which answered my question! I also wanted Brandi to respond to some questions I had earlier for her. (she did)

BTW I don't know about the others, but I wish you wouldn't post in spoilertext, I don't have any problems with walls of text. I almost missed the first part of your post there.

Speaking of, pressure votes aren't pressure if you say they are, not sure who I thought I saw doing it.

Oh, that was me. I hadn't heard that before, but since two people have said it I'll remember it. I don't think it makes that much of a difference, I wouldn't have voted for Bunnylover at this stage if I didn't legitimately think she was scummy.

I liked Seastorm's post there, gives me a much better read on her.

I'm going to actually agree with Fujiko: Telo saying she might not return until two days before deadline when she's the leading wagon is

extremely

inconvenient, to say the least.

[Sucrose]

@ Sucrose post 405, I explained early in the game that I'm from my nook. It's nice to have as I can catch up on the game from it when I have time -which is not thos weekend or tomorrow- but it's terribly inconvienient to post from. Mainly because I can't open multiple windows to address things from previous pages. But also because I can't qoute which question I'm answering or easily format my responses.

Church and family obligations today and slammed tomorrow. Earliest time to address my fan club is Tuesday.

Do you mean you're on your nook for the time being, or that you don't have a regular desktop or laptop?

[Sucrose]

I guess I was misusing the term then, though I didn't say exactly "pressure vote." I legitimately have found Bunnylover's posts, and the lack thereof, scummy.

[Sucrose]

Bunnylover - who's your top scum read? Are you willing to lynch Telo?

I rather lynch Fujiko, but I won't be against a lynch on Telo.
After reading Fujiko ISO, I realized something. I'm really terrible at trying to connect people post into some kinda evil master plan =/

Note for future: Bunnylover could be scum with Fujiko.

On a semi-related note, I want to note that one of the unfortunate things about Daytalk is that we're probably not going to see any caught-scum meltdowns like I've seen in some of my other games. If this game is anything like the last Ladies Night, where I was scum (and then there were only 3 scum rather than 4), there's going to be almost constant coaching, so we're not questioning one scum so much as we're questioning the entire scumteam when a player comes under fire. So, I'd expect all scum players to remain pretty collected, even when there's a lot of pressure on them. Just something to keep in mind.

[Sucrose]

Flinter's vote puts Telo is at L-1, just FYI.

[Sucrose]

lol grammar.

[Sucrose]

Hello, TraceyLyn and Apokalyptika!

Patience, PG, Patience.

[Sucrose]

Does Piggy always joke around this much?

Pretty much.

Wow. Didn't realize we only got one vote. What happens if Telo claims a power role (assuming she hasn't claimed already)? Then we just go for a no lynch?

(Note: I've never played a theme game before; I don't know how they work Lots of questions will probably be asked..)

We still have plenty of time to switch to someone else if need be.

And don't worry, this is really just a regular semi-open, the only theme part is that we're all female.

[Sucrose]

Anything...?

I've read up until Friday's content. I seriously doubt 2 days would have made THAT much difference.

And I wasn't actually going to hammer until I read everything and decided I still would, but thanks for ruining THAT. I was specifically going for a reaction from Telo, but it's not a particularly good one and effectively useless if others commented first.

Reactions to hammer threats can often be very telling, especially if they come out of nowhere.

I think I understand what you were going for, but you can't expect town to not react as well when a gambit is so opaque like that.

Not yet!

Huntress should explain herself before Telos flip.
If she wants to defend her partner- let her be explicit about it!

On the contrary, I'm now pretty certain Huntress is town. Telo is the best lynch for the day, but I don't see the point of being so damned impatient about it.

Of course, the fact that so far she's failed to show up and talk is making her look a lot worse.

[Sucrose]

I don't claim. IRL play claiming gives out tells. I can never get away with it so I don't do it -ever-.

What? No claiming because claiming gives out tells in RL? You can't GET AWAY with it so you don't do it?

GET AWAY WITH IT

Wait

What????

LAUNCH LYNCH SEQUENCE

don't be silly.
What would I do? Only claim when I was town and if I was mafia choose not to claim. How would that ever work?
If I'm going to -not- claim I have to always -not- claim or not claiming won't ever work.
Everyone who plays me knows I never claim.

Except this won't ever work, ever, because I agree with Goofball; I'll lynch you

every

time for doing this.

I'm not missing the point. The point of the game is that everyone has hidden cards. If we show our cards to other players where's the FUN in that?

You should be policy lynched on sight just for this. You've been in at least 5 games. There's no excuse.

Unvote, Vote: Telo

Sorry Tammy. There's a day and half left, and there's not going to be any point in dragging this out any longer.

[Sucrose]

Tammy you can still give your reads in twilight, only the dead player can't.

[Sucrose]

My bad, Telo can continue to talk as well.

[Sucrose]

Earlier I thought that Piggy seemed like a definite mislynch and that her reaction to the dayvig seemed rather noobtown. But, I'm not convinced anymore and I think that anyone writing her off shouldn't. She, since the fake dayvig, doesn't seem as new as she did before hand therefore not as naive. Also, since we now know there's daytalk, that could have been a fake reaction. Basically, I don't like what seemed like a meek start that has turned into a confident, I'm the boss type persona.

It makes sense however if she believes herself to be Confirmed Town.

[Sucrose]

I'm tired from partying last night, but I promise to have a re-read of Telo and the confirmed townies done by tomorrow.

[Sucrose]

Alright, I just finished a quick read-through of the interactions between Telo and everyone else, and Bunnylover and City Electric's reads. Unfortunately the latter two didn't talk much.

Telo readthrough:

Telo's first post is faking ignorance about the number of scum.
Huntress quickly corrects her. (A point for huntress, because I tend to think scum would be more happy to sit back and let a townie do the correcting, it draws more attention to the fake ignorance)

Telo RVSs RachMarie

Telo's #91 where she wonders if Rachmarie deleted is somewhat suspicious due to her earlier faked ignorance about the game

Fujiko attacks Telo early on, in a decidedly non-fake seeming way.

As Tammy points out, Telo early on is afraid to express an opinion on Piggy. Major point for piggy.

In #192 Telo gives out a bunch of reads. There's probably scum buried somewhere in the pile of Piggy, Spring, DBG,

Bunnylover

and Apokalyptica that she gives as her scumreads.
There could be scum in her townreads pile of RachMarie, Fujiko, and Amrun, but I'm a lot less certain on that.

Reading on I'm getting more and more doubtful Fujiko could be scum with Telo.

I most definitely get the feeling Piggy is not scum with Telo. There's no way.

Bunnylover thought Fujiko was scummy.

Spring calls Telo, "derp" along with Piggy. Not sure if that's scummy by itself.

The interaction between Brandi and Telo does not at all seem like two scum.

Point in Tracey's favor: she doesn't take her vote off of Telo when replacing in, even though she'd have a

very

easy excuse to.

Conclusion:

Fujiko has dropped off my scumlist

RachMarie could have been bussing Telo. Brandi less likely, it would require some good acting.

I'm fairly suspicious of Katty Bard. I found the first post from Mathgirl absolutely non-opinionated, and therefore scummy, and I've seen nothing townish from the slot, only null. Also, I know people are going to disagree, but in my opinion, slots that get passed around like hot potatoes tend to be scum. I'll also admit that almost all players in this game are either not pinging my scumdar, or else pinging it but then making posts that I'm sure are town. (like TraceyLynn and Seastorm)

Vote: Apokalyptika

I'll reply to D2 posts in my next post so as not to wall.

[Sucrose]

Personally I'm pretty confident that Bunnylover was the scum kill, and City Electric was the Vig.

Goof, you make me sad not including me in any of your reads

My reads are pretty much the same as yesterday, Bunny turning up town is a slight surprise, but I guess reading it over it was kind of obvious.

VOTE: Sucrose
She's today's vote girls. Let's all lynch another scum today, kay?

You are way too overconfident in your reads, Piggy.

Sorry Tammy. There's a day and half left, and there's not going to be any point in dragging this out any longer.

Why did the fact that there was a day and a half left mean that you had to hammer just then, when there were still things outstanding, instead of waiting? I don't get it. Although your next post implied that you were trying to stop Telo talking. Why didn't you want her to respond to the questions she had been asked?

Oh come on, what were we going to get out of any of Telo's responses by that point? She was either scum or so anti-town she should have been lynched anyway. She turned out to be caught scum, she wouldn't have told us anything useful. I hammered because I was frothy-mouthed with rage at the No-Claim stance. A day and a half is pretty close to deadline, there's no point in dragging things out to the last few hours once you've gotten the claim (or in this case not), especially with someone who's outrageously scummy.

I can also see an alternative reality where DGB and Piggy are scum together.

That'd be some damn fine acting.

Too fine

.

Active lurking because I'm really busy :/ Still don't think Sucrose is scum, though, she reads pretty newbtown to me. I have to look again at TraceyLyn, but I don't remember liking flinter all that much (pretty sure that's who she replaced???)

Unfortunately I'm not at all new, though I did just come back from a long hiatus. But thanks I guess.

[Sucrose]

Town shouldn't care if they change a read on someone that they posted a different opinion before. I'm now cool with a Tracey lynch as well...

I didn't say that. I said I have a bad memory. I.e. I don't remember my reads. It's not a matter of them changing. It's a matter of me forgetting what reads I have and why I have them.

It's know it's WIFOM, but scum has no reason to admit this. The whole thing's a null tell, I'm not sure why people are jumping on it. I like where my vote is.

Ten bucks says one of RachMarie and Apokalyptika is scum.

[Sucrose]

Personally I'm pretty confident that Bunnylover was the scum kill, and City Electric was the Vig.

Why is that?

This is a pretty bad conversational role to go down. I think Bunny was the one killed by scum, and we should investigate from there. Unless you disagree.

BL was obsessed with Fujiko.

It's definitely a point against Fujiko, but in re-read I became doubtful that Fujiko was scum with Telo, and scum may have just been groping in the dark for PR's, so I wouldn't take it too far on its own.

[Sucrose]

Alright guys, I have a suggestion:

We have 6 days left. We also have a vig. What I suggest is that we ferret out scum like normal, going to L-1, only instead of lynching, we get a claim, then move on to our next suspect as if it were the next day. At night, the vig should hit the first suspect if they're a claimed VT, (unless they really believe her). It's essentially two lynches for the price of one. Yes, this

is

more likely to make scum fakeclaim PR roles, but since we know the number of PR's, those will blow up on them in the end, and will almost certainly blow up on them before LyLo.
What I'm really afraid of is one of our other two real PR's getting accidentally vigged, which is the biggest risk with a vig, and could be devastating for town.

If anyone has any objections to this plan that I've overlooked, please state them.

Personally, I'd like one of them to be Apokalyptika. Nothing she's said has moved my radar off of "mildly scummy" and I'm very ehhhh about the Tracey wagon. It just doesn't seem strong enough to lynch over.

[Sucrose]

Tracey, would you just go ahead and post the chunks you have, and end this argument already?

[Sucrose]

Sucrose:

Honesty. I like it. This quote on the other hand:

You're right, I was sheeping your point, I only noticed the incident on re-read. It was a good find. I'm doubtful I would have noticed how few hours had passed between Piggy's post and Sea's on my own, because I usually never pay attention to timestamps.

Bothers me. Normally I'd say as I said before. Honesty is good. However, this feels fake and contrived for some reason. I guess because she added, "Good find." Not to repeatedly go into my meta (because everyone plays like I do, right?), but I know as scum I would often times agree with people because I figured the honesty would earn me town-cred. Much like what she did in the quote.

I have no defense for this other than to say I meant what I said.

In post #202 Sucrose says Piggy's posts are "legitimately scummy." Before this she had not mentioned finding Piggy scummy or any of her posts scummy. And then this quote. Oh gosh is it bad. We can tell from the Telo wagon that scum wanted to buss someone, one of their partners. That being said, Piggy was looking like a lynch earlier in the day. Assuming Piggy was scum, her partners could have bussed her, lynched her, and boom. It wouldn't have made what Sucrose said true at all, but it would have probably given her town cred (for whatever reason). After all, she's acting oblivious to the fact that there's day talk. Not to mention she's basically saying how much she's "buying into" the Piggy coaching stuff (though I think this may have been a jab at Piggy rather than referring to what was said earlier in the game - Piggy coaching her buddies). Meh. Just bothers me.

Yeah, I did think Piggy's posts were erratic and scummy. If she had been an experienced player making the same posts, I would have been all for lynching her. As to that second quote, I guess everyone here seems to think scum want to lynch their buddies D1 (which is a perfectly fine scum-plan). I think, even more so, though, that they usually like to let the town hang itself lynching a player who sticks out like a sore thumb D1. I've seen it quite a bit in my other games, I can link some if you don't believe me. For piggy the alarm bells were going off in my head both that "THIS POSTING IS OFF=SCUMMY" and "THIS IS AN EASY TARGET." Yeah, I missed the daytalk things the first time around. I was far from the only one. Your second interpretation of that quote was right, it was a jab at Piggy. I thought Camn's suggestion that Piggy was coaching her scumbuddies was nonsense, but I ignored it because of my town-read on Camn.

AND THEN AND THEN AND THEN THERE'S THIS JEWEL: post #234.

I don't see at all what's wrong with the quote. Isn't it obvious what I was doing?

But let us look at all of the posts referring to the dayvig.

<snip>

DGB, Sucrose, and Piggy were all on at the same time. There was about ten minutes between the first few posts (excluding DGB's original dayvig), and then the last one was made about forty minutes later. Of course this is pretty WIFOM, but they didn't make any posts after Piggy's claim even though (presumably) they were all online at the same time. This leads me to believe that a possible scenario is they're all scum partners (or at least two of them are), and were talking to each other via QT before each post was made. This is probably stretching. But meh. The time stamps seem a little too convenient to me. And in Sucrose's next post she doesn't touch on what she thinks of DGB's or Piggy's alignments when the entire gambit centered around them. That seems a little odd.

Why do you think that I was online when Piggy responded to the gambit? She responded 40 minutes after I last posted. I can't remember exactly what I was doing that day, but I'm sure I had long since left. I saw DGB's gambit and thought I'd try and play along to get info from Piggy. (I'd also forgotten there was daytalk, like I said earlier). Now, the

best

result would have been if Piggy-scum and responded with something really scummy in response to the gambit. By the time I came back, there was another half page of discussion and I thought City Electric and Telo's responses to the gambit were more interesting than the gambit itself, which IMO does not completely clear Piggy, it's just a point in that direction. I'd never been in the "Piggy is totally scum!" club in the first place. And, I will admit to sheeping DBG to some extent (except when I disagree). I

could

be getting buddied, but I'm going to trust my town read for now.

Moving on, wat. She votes Bunny after saying Fujiko and Telo are both highly scummy. She explains this by saying Bunny needs pressure. ... Telo had five votes on her by the time Sucrose made this post, and Fujiko had two. Bunny has zero. How is that going to pressure her? Later she says this. Though she also had stated that she found Telo and Fujiko legitimately scummy. Why would it be more beneficial for her to vote someone with no votes rather than someone with several? Especially when she found them all to be fairly scummy?

Because there was still a ways until the deadline, and Bunny had said very little, and I thought the little she had said was scummy. I wanted to hear her talk, and nobody had put any pressure on her before. I thought Telo and Fujiko were scummy, but not so scummy that I was sure either one of them should be the day's lynch yet.

My thought is probably because of what happens soon after: Sucrose hammers. It allowed her to prevent Telo from giving anymore information.

Now this, I don't understand at all. Telo was caught scum.

Nothing

caught scum says is useful, because they know they're caught and anything they say is pure WIFOM. Scum doesn't have any reason to shut their partners up, either, unless they think they're going to blow the game, which is ridiculous.

A few other comments:

Rach:

Second, I don't like her statement,

"I just do not see anyone, even a very experienced player doing the fake dayvig thingy as scum."

I don't understand why that would seem implausible even from an inexperienced player. I mean, it's a pretty safe gambit. All you have to do is say what DGB said. I don't think Rach's statement makes sense from a scum point-of-view unless DGB is her partner, though (this doesn't mean that Rach can't be scum if DGB isn't scum. This just means that the statement is only worrisome if DGB is scum too).

Disagree. Pointing out that a very town player is town is something scum do all the time. In fact I think the opposite, scum would be unlikely to say this about a scum partner doing a Dayvig gambit, it sticks out too much. I agree that the attention given to the other between Rach and Telo looks bad, and there's more to it than you've pointed out. (see earlier posts about Rach)

Apokalyptika:

Overall, I think the amount of replacements is indicative of town (I disagree with you guys - I've never replaced into a scum slot before, and I'M IN THE NEWBIE QUEUE WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIKELY TO FREAK OUT OVER THE PRESSURE). There's a lack of participation in all of them that makes me think they aren't scum, as well. I'd think scum would be more likely to try and stick it out, but then get too caught up or upset over the pressure. But also, guys, there's day talk. The pressure can't be that hard on scum when their buddies are likely coaching them every step of the way. No, the replacements are indicative of null at worst, town at best.

Ohhh, I have to majorly disagree with this. As a matter of fact, in the first Ladies Night I (kinda accidentally) flaked out as scum for that exact reason, and that game had Daytalk.

I'd post more about the last 2 pages, but I have to go to class, be back in a bit.

[Sucrose]

Alright, follow up:

Although I disagree (strongly) with several of Tracey's reads, it occurs to me that her strange idea that I was around during the entirety of the Dayvig gambit is

probably

a thought coming from a town player. Reason: I think she was looking at the conversation through the lens of thinking DGB and I were scum-partners coordinating our posts. Scum, of course, would know that's not true, and thus would probably correctly interpret my not immediately responding to Piggy's claim simply as me having gone offline. The only way I think Tracey's thought-process on it makes sense is if Tracey legitimately thinks DGB and I are scum. In other words, she's town.

I could be horribly wrong on this, but it's a hunch.

Rach should claim. Now.

I guess nobody likes my vig idea. I still don't see why we can't vig Rach and run up Apocalyptika. The vig power can't be limited-shot.

[Sucrose]

Vote: RachMarie

Not sure why people backed off this wagon.

[Sucrose]

Sorry I've not given much contribution today, this is a busy month for me. I still haven't read everything in the past few pages but I'll try to catch up soon.

You should vote for Rach, so we can get to L-1, since she's apparently not gonna claim before then.

[Sucrose]

Yeah, by the look of it Rach may be a good lynch too, BTW the logical thing to do is to run up Apok and vig Rach.

Finally, someone agrees!

[Sucrose]

Who is that directed at?

[Sucrose]

If RachMarie is scum, and I were her buddy, I would totally lurk and pray that her wagon dissolves and the town's attention would turn onto itself.

You know. Like what springlullaby is pushing, maybe.

If Rach gets shot, what does it matter?

At any rate, like I said before, we should get claims before anyone is vigged, if practicable.

[Sucrose]

I think I was wrong before, and City Electric died saving someone. I don't know why I didn't think of it.

So Bunny could have been the vig kill.

[Sucrose]

You're crazy, DGB. I was never trying to breadcrumb being a vig, the only thing I don't want is random vig shots, because I've seen that eff up the town something bad. I think Apok and Rach are by far the two scummiest suspects, I don't care which one gets shot and which one we hang, so long as we get claims first. Of course if the vig thinks I'm wrong and one of the two is town she can shoot whoever she likes.

[Sucrose]

Wow Sucrose you just hit my scumdar HARD.

I'm

sure

I did.

She's not bussing, she's grabbing at the first available counter-wagon.

[Sucrose]

I need to do a readthrough of Day 2. Also, I can guess how this day's going to turn out, but I'll try and make the most of it.

[Sucrose]

Someone, or more likely multiple someones, in the following pile is scum:

Seastorm
Spring
Huntress
Camn
Amrun

Everyone on at the start of the Telo wagon D1 is town.

Telo Wagon:

RachMarie

- DGB - PiggyGal15 - Brandi - Camn -

City Electric

- Fujiko - Eidolon - TraceyLyn11 - Sucrose

Not on the Wagon:

Tammy

Seastorm

Bunnylover

Springlullaby
Amrun
Huntress

Apokalyptika

[Sucrose]

It's either Camn and DGB or just DGB (or neither). I don't think Camn's scum without DGB. With that being said, I don't think Camn and DGB is completely likely. And I certainly think both are scummy.

VOTE: DGB New wagon? I think this one will give more information, anyways.

No thanks. I tell ya, the first 4 on that Telo wagon have got to be town. Not just because of that, because of who they are.

I find nothing suspicious about DGB not getting shot, despite how paranoid she is about it.

Everyone

had a town-read on Tammy.

Vote: Huntress

One of Telo's town reads, and I have reasons to believe plenty of other players are town, but am null on Huntress.

[Sucrose]

I'm not so hot on a Tracey lynch. She's said some things I thought were distinctly town-reasoning, plus why would scum go after two of the least suspected players (DGB and Piggy)? Just for the WIFOM? Why push a DGB lynch over me, if she says we're both scummy? Why shrug and keep waiting until she's compiled a huge wall of reads, while taking heat over it? These just don't seem like scum actions.

On another note, now that Amrun's posting again, I'm once again reading her as town. Leaning more townish on Camn as well.

seastorm
Huntress
spring
camn

I'm convinced at least one of these is scum.

[Sucrose]

Okay, I do not understand why no one jumped on this. WHAT TOWN FEELS THE NEED TO SAY "EVEN WHEN I'M TOWN?" COME ON!

Actually, that makes perfect sense to me. Why should a townie not be thinking about how their actions look at all times, just like a scum? Nobody wants people thinking they are scum, no matter their alignment. The end result is the same - they die. In very few cases is this good.

This is a meta-question I've had in other games before -- it feels to me like conventional wisdom is that townies aren't self-conscious, and don't post cautiously - don't make that kind of post. I don't understand this at all. Independently of this game, can someone please explain it? After the game is fine.

I feel strongly about this and would like to comment, but since you said "independently of the game" I won't right now.

Leaning more townish on Camn as well.

seastorm
Huntress
spring
camn

I'm convinced at least one of these is scum.

Please explain the apparent contradiction of leaning townish on camn, then putting her in a list 1/4 scum.

She's slidden down a couple places and is now last on the list. I know realistically I can't have all three scum on that list, and at least one of my towny-reads must be dead wrong, but I have town reads on all the other players. It's been a tough game to parse.

[Sucrose]

Other than that, Telo is either a total moron vanilla townie or scum. If you turn up to be a PR, I'm blacklisting you.

If scum:

Bunnylover

,

flinter

, maybe

DGB

, maybe

Sucrose

.

If town:

Huntress

, maybe

Tammy.

City

is scummy

in both circumstances

.

Five

names if Telo flips scum, but only

three

if Telo flips town. I'm counting CityElectric in both lists.

Maybe SL, knowing that SL is scum, bothered to cast a wider net on townies after Telo's scum flip? There would be no reason to slip a scumpal in that list, but you never know.

This is interesting given that she wasn't on the Telo wagon, and wasn't strongly predicting Telo was scum, just that she was "okay with the lynch" followed by the quoted post.

Spring also quasi-defends Telo in her first post that mentions her, #177. She's a scum-read, but "only redeeming feature is that she reads as if she's not all there." This comment also came

after

Eidolon had said that Telo was "out of the loop." Spring later describes Piggy and Telo together as "derp and more derp."

I'll wait for Spring to respond to this.

[Sucrose]

Sucrose: Right, the Sucrose hammer was sort of suspicious to me. I mentioned that I like to wait for people to talk, which was why I didn't vote Telo. I'm used to 120 hour days and I've seen wagons build or dissolve in a matter of hours -- Heck I've seen an entire day start and end in an hour. What I didn't like about Sucrose's hammer was that Telo had still wanted to post reads, iirc, and not letting her give them feels a lot like she was trying to silence a scummate. She talks about how Telo was caught scum, but I'm not sure how she knew Telo was scum before the hammer. I've been giving Sucrose a town-read because of the vig soft-claim, but honestly the way she changes her mind on the kill makes it pretty clear that's not the case.
Light scum.

Okay, in this very same post, you acknowledge that scum has daytalk, yet you still accuse me of being scum trying to shut up Telo. Like I've said before, I hammered Telo because she was either scum or so anti-town that she should have been lynched immediately. If she was town after that, I would have put her on personal blacklist. But, it turned out to just be scum-nonsense, so no foul on Telo's part. I

still

don't understand why people think scum would try and shut up their partners, even if there wasn't daytalk. Telo was playing bad, but not that bad. What, do you think scum might think she would throw the game? I don't think so. Anyone should know that anything caught-scum says is going to be pure unadulterated WIFOM, and scum probably know this too.

And why do you choose to comment on the Day 2 vig issue now, rather than when it was happening? You make it sound like you've come to this conclusion on your own, but your opinion is an exact duplicate of DGB's theory/confusion, to the letter. I know this is OMGUS, but I've seen other players attack me, and I thought they were being genuine. I don't think that with you. And that's not even mentioning the following posts where you back all this all up by saying you can use the lynch to get info, on nonsense "votal analysis" reasoning, but that's been discussed.

This is interesting given that she wasn't on the Telo wagon, and wasn't strongly predicting Telo was scum, just that she was "okay with the lynch" followed by the quoted post.

Spring also quasi-defends Telo in her first post that mentions her, #177. She's a scum-read, but "only redeeming feature is that she reads as if she's not all there." This comment also came

after

Eidolon had said that Telo was "out of the loop." Spring later describes Piggy and Telo together as "derp and more derp."

I'll wait for Spring to respond to this.

I don't really see what I can respond to. Telo didn't make sense either way, but given the amount of wtf I was ok to lynch her either way. It's true I never felt deeply convinced Telo was scum though,

plus I think Brandi was on that wagon too.

What do you mean by the bolded part?

And why on earth would you be equally willing to lynch a player that you merely thought was out of it?

! Isn't legitimately being baffled a town trait? Hell, that's why Telo was faking it in the first place! You said yourself it was a "redeeming feature," AKA the thing that made you doubt your scumread. And now you're saying you actually had been okay to lynch her over it. First it made you leery of lynching her, now it's equally one of the reasons you wanted to lynch her.

And Telo's posts weren't at all what I'd call "WTF," just confused and then scummy. Telo's play was not nearly erratic as you make it out to have been.

[Sucrose]

Everyone on at the start of the Telo wagon D1 is town.

What makes you so certain?

@ Sucrose: Can I have a reply to this please?

I already answered this. I have fairly strong town-reads on the first three players (possible exception of Piggy, but still fairly town on her) and the fact that all those players were on at the beginning of the Telo wagon helps confirm that they're town, and that Telo wasn't being bussed early on.

What do you mean by the bolded part?

And why on earth would you be equally willing to lynch a player that you merely thought was out of it?

!

Isn't legitimately being baffled a town trait? Hell, that's why Telo was faking it in the first place!

You said yourself it was a "redeeming feature," AKA the thing that made you doubt your scumread. And now you're saying you actually had been okay to lynch her over it. First it made you leery of lynching her, now it's equally one of the reasons you wanted to lynch her.

And Telo's posts weren't at all what I'd call "WTF," just confused and then scummy. Telo's play was not nearly erratic as you make it out to have been.

1. I don't understand what you mean in the green above.
2. The bolded part means that the fact that Brandi, who I thought was scum, was voting Telo for a long time, and it factored in why I was meh on Telo.
3. I said that I never felt very convinced Telo was scum, but that at one point her play was so bad that I was willing to lynch her even if I didn't feel convinced she was scum over the risk of her being very bad noob/derp town. Do you find this scummy, why?
4. Actually now that you are asking this, I remember exactly why at one point the balance tipped over for me, it was a popcorn comment she made in during Brandi/me; it was a weird comment and reminded me of Tofu mafia in which Ectomancer(scum) made a popcorn comment too in during an argument involving me (town) and Vi (scum).

I don't think I ever used the word erratic and I don't really understand what you seem to want to pin on me here. My memory of Telo's play was first ramblings that hardly made any sense to me, then repeated mentions of nook, then refusal to claim - all this to such an exaggerated degree I feared she was derpish townie because it didn't make sense for scum. Out of all these items, the only thing I think I found possibly scummy was the popcorn comment.

_____________________________

Actually what, I just reread the part I highlighted in green. Why would you think Telo was

faking it in the first place

? Over her being really bad scum?

1 and last sentence: Telo was scum faking being confused about the setup and other points in order to gain town-cred. Obviously, being scum, she actually knew how many players there were and how many were scum.
2. Fair enough. Didn't understand what you meant.
3. You never said anything to this effect D1, but okay.
......
Generally these answers here at least make sense.

Hmm.

Unvote, Vote: Seastormjt

[Sucrose]

I would prefer quite a bit a seastorm or springlullaby (in that order) lynch to a Tracey lynch.

[Sucrose]

I'm feeling....decently confident about seastorm as a lynch. She's made a grand total of 22 posts, and is lurking again. Two of her posts have been extended walls with a vote. (Those wall posts don't give me a towny-feeling, either) This looks like the play of someone who finds reading and posting in the thread to be a chore, yet sporadically (at a rate of less than one a day) gives a wall post of write-ups out of obligation. In other words, scum play.

[Sucrose]

Finding reading/posting a chore and posting out of obligation is not a scumtell.

Why not? I've certainly felt that way as scum. Yes, town could find reading and posting to be a chore as well, but that would be more because they're not bothering/can't find the time to play, whereas it's always going to be sort of a chore for scum, because they're not actually scumhunting. An active and confident scumplayer probably enjoys misleading the town, but other scum are likely only focused on keeping their head out of the noose.

But we're talking theory, so if you disagree, I'll take it into consideration.

[Sucrose]

Well, considering that Seastorm couldn't put a post together in 2 hours, I'm sure not going to complain.

[Sucrose]

If sea flips scum, spring is less likely to be scum. Otherwise she's still scummy. That aside, my scumreads are, in this order:

spring?
huntress
fujiko
camn
tracey

amrun

all others

DGB almost has to be town, a bunch of you are barking up the wrong tree.

Piggy is probably town as well, as well as Brandi. Listen, I know it's been suggested that scum bussed Telo early for the town-cred, but I really, really doubt it. A rolecop would be more valuable to them than the godmother, and depending on how scummy the individual players play, bussing her to the lynch D1 wouldn't even necessarily give them much an advantage. That's a major reason I think the first few players on the Telo wagon are town. The role-cop is too huge of a weapon against the town PRs for the scumteam to just throw it away that easily. I know it's

possible

, it's just not very likely. I'll post more on this tomorrow when I get my thoughts together.

[Sucrose]

Sea, you only got hammered because you said you were writing a post, and then didn't for 2 hours. What reason was there for that?

DGB, my opinion on spring in relation to Seastorm's flip stands.

[Sucrose]

Thanks, Fujiko. Wow. Damned good shot, vig, your read was much better than mine.

Vote: Springlullaby

[Sucrose]

So Malakittens, was that your easiest win ever or what?

[Sucrose]

Yeah, I wouldn't have claimed vig yet, but it's okay, spring flipping scum is far more likely than not.

[Sucrose]

Nice job, Mala.

Anyway, with this combination of PRs, even if spring didn't flip scum, (which is extremely unlikely for reasons I'll give below) it would be impossible for scum to win at this point. There's nine players left and we'll have three confirmed townies, another vig shot, and Fujiko can clear people, and scum wouldn't counter-claim unless they're stupid.

So I'll go ahead and claim, since I'd be doing that anyway. I'm Bulletproof. And all I can say is, DBG, you are too damned astute. TOO DAMNED ASTUTE. Actually I had screwed up pretty badly by assuming bunnylover had been the scum-kill D2, which told the scum I wasn't really the vig (which I was trying to be subtle at hinting at, but apparently did a pretty clumsy job of) I then tried to play it off by hinting that I was deathly afraid of being vigged in the night, and was thus a PR. I wouldn't have tried any of this if I wasn't sure that I wasn't ever going to be targeted for NK because of the suspicion on me. Which it turns out was scum-lead. (Sigh) Oh well, what I've learned from this is to always be careful as a PR to watch how I'm coming off to other town players, not just the scum.

Anyway, since due to what Seastorm said yesterday I'm fairly certain that scum either knew or strongly suspected I'm bulletproof, that means Spring is scum and we've just won. Hurray!

[Sucrose]

BP???

You realize that means that SL may be town, and that the missing kill isn't from Fujiko RB'ing SL, but from the scum targeting YOU.

Of course I realize that. I'm saying that

1. It's highly unlikely that they have, as I think they've guessed my role

and

2. It's literally impossible for the scum to win at this point. Read the scenario I posted above. All suspects will have been cleared or eliminated by the time we would get to three remaining players.

[Sucrose]

Also, I would have to claim anyway, in order to clear Fujiko.

[Sucrose]

... So, springlullaby never submitted a kill, but was the scum?



Well, that was lucky.

Yes, but we were doing so well that after the Amrun kill, we couldn't have lost even if spring hadn't been the last scum. Though, of course, excellent choice of night-target, Fujiko.

Anyway, hurray for town win! Good modding, RC, and I'm glad you decided to do a sequel to the last game.

[Sucrose]

By the way, I was absolutely,

absolutely

sure that DGB was town after D2 when she attacked me for hinting at vig and talking constantly about the vig, even though it screwed me up . Scum would have either concluded I was a PR or Bulletproof and wouldn't have called me on it in the thread, so after that, to me DGB was virtually confirmed town.

[Sucrose]

It appears SL was never even on the site during the time period she was expected to send in a kill.
I know she would have been blocked REGARDLESS- but that seems a little unfair- she perhaps should have been replaced?

It was a tough decision, but both her and Amrun posted during the night in the QT as you can see. Neither of them submitted a "placeholder" kill while they discussed. They were both aware that there was a deadline. I also extended that night due to Eidolon's replacement

and

let them both know that I was getting ready to start the day... so, I mean, I don't know what else I could've done short of making a kill for them. That's my ruleset though, Brandi. I don't believe in Random Choice Selection or whatever other alternative.

It would have only made a difference if Amrun had submitted the kill, because Spring would have been very quickly hammered even if she was around and talking. And whether spring submitted or missed the kill wouldn't have made any difference at all.