Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[NicCage]

/confirm

[NicCage]

VOTE: goodcopbadcop because cops cause me problems

[NicCage]

Why me and not Toomai?

[NicCage]

Yep

unvote

VOTE: zefiend

[NicCage]

It's not a softclaim.

I voted for zefiend because I thought his post sounded overly wordy and constructed, and because I felt that his sureness that hapa was misrepping hp was unwarranted. It seemed like he was just going for the most convenient and safest reason for his vote, hiding behind the technical difference between the definition and hapa's actions.

His recent posts haven't really made me feel better about him, so jake from rainbowdash, why is it obvious that zefiend is town?

[NicCage]

So I take it you don't like my reasoning

[NicCage]

Well now the vote has reasoning, is there any particular problem you have with it?

I guarantee that zefiend chose that vote because he thought it was safe, which would either point to scum or newb trying not to stick his neck out. I went with scum.

[NicCage]

Sorry if you didn't like my question. I didn't feel that hp had the grounds to vote either me or toomi, so I wanted to know what logic he was using to make a distinction.

Now that you've been enlightened toomai, do you agree with Jake?

[NicCage]

zefiend, why are you voting me?

[NicCage]

Not hiding, just being crushed by finals. 2 all nighters in a row really does a number on you. I swear I'll post later today after I sleep a little more

[NicCage]

Well I'm also a lazy person and I smoke weed. Everybody's leaving, everybody wants to hang out. Couple that with studying for finals and you get very little time. I read the game when I'm high, but I don't like to post because high thoughts are dumb.

Okay, well I'm pretty sure Toomai is scum. VOTE: Toomai. His original case against GCBC seems like an overreaction, and he certainly was eager to push it. He even defends the wagon on GCBC as being founded on his reasoning, though only he was voting for that reason. Thought that was weird.
His vote on me looks like a cheap sheep. He drops his case on GCBC to vote me, thinking he's sheeping everyone else, even though he actually wasn't. In fact, he's definitely

not

reading carefully, but just sheeping where it looked convenient.

I also have other opinions and things to answer, but I don't have time for you today. I'll try to give you more tomorrow.

[NicCage]

Bc why?

[NicCage]

Lol yeah, I lied. Turns out my other opinions were wrong so I just didn't post them.
I'll probably lurk the amount I feel like lurking unless you ask me stuff, so good for you for asking.

Voting someone because of ridiculously terrible reasoning during the RVS/ending of the RVS? it's like you've never played before

I see your point, but from my perspective it was a serious kind of bad reasoning, given that he had already placed a random vote.

He is actually serious about this being scummy.

Vote: GoodCopBadCop

Wagon time!

Let's not start a wagon against the biggest attention whore in the thread so far mmmmkay?

Why not? Not sure I like how fast it built up, but as long as it doesn't go much further, I don't see the problem. A bold statement was made that people don't agree with, so we put on some votes to get explanation or reaction.

The thing is, he's the only person who voted for GCBC for that bold statement. Everyone else was either RVSing or wagoning with no reasons given.

I don't think this sheeping is a null tell because he sheeped the vote, not the reasoning behind the vote.

Not getting townvibes from Varsoon.

[NicCage]

I have played one newbie game as scum. I was doing okay until I totally blew it.

Varsoon you are so wrong. Jacobsavage as scum played the fool for the entirety of my first open game and never got lynched. I like your style mostly, but you have to show town motivation aside from just repeatedly saying I'm town.

Varsoon, why is jake scum?

[NicCage]

Also, I think zefiend is town now also, for what it's worth.

[NicCage]

I'll be a better player on D2, I promise

I still think Toomai is scummy also, but I can see why acfan appears scummy. He might be like me, but it definitely felt like he was trying to avoid committing himself, especially when he was fence sitting between varsoon and I for anti-town behavior. I don't care for meta arguments, but this one could be right. If there's no interest in a Toomai lynch, I am willing to hammer Ac.

Also I'm not hungover, I only drink on weekends and days I have off work thank you very much.

[NicCage]

I don't do read lists, I think they're scummy and anti-town. Not that they're always scummy, but it won't be of any benefit to you if I make one.

I am willing to poop out a few reads though. I'll need some more time to think.

Oh, that's my error. I though scott's 215 was directed at Dyslexicon b/c of how it was quoted. DERP. ~ignore me~

I was about to correct you, but you have autocorrect. Jumpy move though, especially considered your post 231. Your initial translation of my vote was not correct either. I don't see it readily fit with your conservative voting, but I must admit I do love a unique style.

Could someone explain to me what dyslexicon was referring to here?

[NicCage]

Hey dys, what do you think of Toomai?

[NicCage]

Since no one is interested in Toomai I'll
VOTE: acfan

I don't see how keeping him around for tomorrow is beneficial.

[NicCage]

post_id=4959316 time=1368734362 user_id=10128]

Since no one is interested in Toomai I'll
VOTE: acfan

I don't see how keeping him around for tomorrow is beneficial.

Oh God the smell of opportunism here. Also Toomai too.

Hey man, I said that's what I was going to do earlier.

[NicCage]

Well, the first one was to see what distinction hp was making between Toomai and I, so that one doesn't have anything to do with me thinking Toomai was scum.

After Toomai's post voting me the first time I was suspicious of him. Like I've said, I think he's scum.

The second was to see why dys called out Toomai in 117 and then said nothing about it from then on. I was trying to see if there was a connection between the two of them.

[NicCage]

Why me and not Toomai?

Jake, does this inform your read on me?

Yep

unvote

VOTE: zefiend

Why, as scum, would I do this? How does scum stand to benefit from this and why is it scummy?

[NicCage]

Well, the first one was to see what distinction hp was making between Toomai and I, so that one doesn't have anything to do with me thinking Toomai was scum.

After Toomai's post voting me the first time I was suspicious of him. Like I've said, I think he's scum.

The second was to see why dys called out Toomai in 117 and then said nothing about it from then on. I was trying to see if there was a connection between the two of them.

Two quick question for you Nic:

1.Why do you feel/think Toomai is scum?
2.Do you feel like you found any connection between the two at all?

1. Well there's this 212. And he's been voting opportunistically, it looks like he just wants whatever lynch he can get to go through. Although thinking about some things I feel a change in my read coming.

2. No I don't. His answer seemed in line with what happened. I think it bears a little more explaining though.
Dys, Could you explain why Toomai saying he screwed up informs your read of him?

[NicCage]

Jake or dashie could you answer my questions please?

[NicCage]

So I suppose I'm getting lynched then. That's fine. I'm claiming VT now, and I would like to give some final reads cause I think I might be onto something. But, I'm phoneposting and I can't really make a case right now.

Short version is I think Jake is scum. Remember that thing varsoon said earlier? I agree with that, that's part of it. If I get to my computer before I flip I'll tell you all the other reasons I think I saw.

[NicCage]

dude hasn't voted in forever, content of his posts comes off as scum trying to sit back, etc etc.
I just don't like him. Someone mentioned him recently and I was like, "Oh, that guy exists?"
Yeah, that's what he wanted me to think.
'cus he's scum.

This is the Varsoon quote I was talking about.

My questions to Jake(which I use to refer to the hydra, not the single player):

Spoiler:

Why me and not Toomai?

Jake, does this inform your read on me?

Yep

unvote

VOTE: zefiend

Why, as scum, would I do this? How does scum stand to benefit from this and why is it scummy?

The response:

Spoiler:

Jake or dashie could you answer my questions please?

You mean the "why would I do this [sheep]" as scum? When the reason for your sheep was "zef is sheeping"?

I really don't see a question from you really. I already explained why that post, and other things, were a scumtell.

In which he pretty much blew me off, which I guess is somewhat understandable, given that he thinks I'm scum. My reasoning was NOT zef is sheeping though, it was because zef picked out something that I felt was easy to see why it wasn't scummy and that it was an easy logical point to make. So way to misrep me there.

But from that post I glean that the answer to my first question is yes and the second just wasn't worth the effort to answer, because it isn't answered elsewhere.

So here is why the first is scummy:

Spoiler:

My turn to post!

Vote NC

Why me and not Toomai?

This is a really bad post to start as it doesn't actually attack any of the logic that was presented as to why its scummy, but instead tries to deflect part of what he is being called for to another as well without really giving thoughts on hp or Toom.

Yep

unvote

VOTE: zefiend

This is a pretty ugly sheep. Apart from zef being one of my stronger town read at this point, it seems like more of a runaway vote following a vocal player who was calling him scum. I would love to actually see NC try and give reason for the vote before GCBC gives one (even though they probably both are missing reasons - zef is really town which anypony should see at this point).

Now, the reasoning on my "Why me and not Toomai" post is fine for early game, to get the ball rolling, but I don't believe it's alright to be using that against me now. For starters, I wasn't under serious suspicion at the time, so there was no reason for me to be shifting the blame. There practically was no blame to shift, and I explained my reasoning for asking that question was to find out what the difference was between Toomai and I. Jake obviously doesn't accept that reasoning, but he never says why it's wrong and has never attempted to understand my motivation from a different perspective. This is part of a pattern of behavior.

Here is the post about why zef is town:

Spoiler:

So the "zef is town" breakdown.

Of course.

However I don't understand why he would vote someone

on the basis that he hates RVS,

while effectively making an RVS vote of his own

.

A random vote is one that is made randomly, without reasoning or justification.

hp [leaves] placed his vote and gave a reason. Therefore, it isn't a random vote. Whether or not you like his reasoning doesn't matter. Whether or not he's already changed his vote doesn't matter. You're misrepresenting his actions (see the italicized quoted part) in order to justify your confusion, or misunderstanding, or whatever (see the underlined quoted part). The point is that you're trying to call his actions into question, but you're pushing too hard on it. This seems forced to me.

This is good and logical. Its town picking up on something that he sees as scum trying to throw out a vote on non-existent reasoning. While its not worded perfectly (more to follow there) he is pushing into it not even blindly but actually trying to discern where the attack is coming from while giving his overall conclusion at the point in time.

If you construe hp [leaves] vote as random there is nothing I can do to change your opinion, as we have different interpretations of the term "random vote." To me, his vote was not meant as a joke.

To rephrase it a bit differently, I find the fact that you "find <<what hp [leaves] did>> scummy, or at the very least something worth pursuing" is pushing to force an issue that's simply not worth it.

More "trying to get to bottom of reasoning" as opposed to "lol you are scum" response.

I never said you were trying too hard. To clarify, I am voting for you because I don't like the way you are going after hp [leaves]. I feel as though there is nothing there to warrant going after, and your pushing on it and questioning is unsettling.

This was that "misinterpretation" I was talking about. The comment he got railed on was him basically saying "that is a really bad point" or at very least saying "that appears to be a very bad point" instead of "you are attacking him too hard over a valid point".

I am all for prying information from someone, but only necessarily if they do something genuinely suspicious or questionable. It seems as though you are admitting to "forcing things", albeit for the sake of generating information... so, along with the fact that you are generally being proactive in regards to activity, I will

Unvote: hapahauli

for now.

We get full circle here. He sees where the push is coming from, and although he does appear to still disagree with it, he feels that its town motivated instead of scum motivated. I can follow him, do you?

@NC - How is that vote "safe". If any vote is "safe" its yours on him because its sheeping the vocal player without actually giving any reason of your own as to why you are voting him. I can point to quite a few "safe" votes so far, usually one where the palyer starts trying to kick up their own logic isn't one.

Since when is "wordy" a scumtell anyways?

Basically NC is scum.

He sheeps over the loud player onto Zef who is "wordy" and "making a safe vote". When half of his case is exactly how he is playing the game

This townread is right in my opinion, and the reasons behind it are solid. It's actually an enormous part of why I changed my read on zef, in case you were curious.

What I find funny about this post is how it points out a really good town quality without actually practicing it. He says that zef is trying to get to the bottom of something rather than just calling someone scum. But at the end that's exactly what Jake does. There really aren't any questions trying to understand my logic behind voting zef, aside from asking how wordy is a scumtell. I'm obviously just scum from my response, and no further investigation is necessary, right?

Spoiler:

Can't tell if GCBC is telling me to unvote or ACfan to unvote.

Either way,

unvote

Glad to see I got some kind of reaction out of JakePony.

JakePony, please explain why I should support your vote that's 250 posts old.

reaction testing an active poster by calling him inactive?

you can vote whoever you want, but my original reasons for voting him are still valid and he hasn't done anything but lurk. He has had 1 content filled post but he didn't even complete it, he said he had more to come and then vanished again. When I asked when he was going to finish he said that the rest of what he was going to say wasn't valid (or whatever) anymore. There was the one time when someone (can't remember who at the moment) voted and only gave a reason of "BC" and he immediately showed up ask about that and provide nothing else.

He isn't scum hunting and nothing coming from him shows pro-town behavior.

If you wanted something from me you should have asked. I concede that I haven't been a good player, but you haven't even tried to discern whether I was bad or scum. Aside from commenting on me, where is

your

scumhunting? I don't see any.

This is what made me suspect Jake in the first place

Spoiler:

You don't have to wait for this pony to actually be at my laptop to ask me questions, its not like they will disappear by the time I get off of work (which may cut into access this weekend since I need to go in for at least one half day).

Also we are almost for sure going to be still voting NC here. Outside of something massive happening with regards to ac he wont be getting our vote today, if he is scum he is pushed into a corner for what he does. If he is town scum are pushed into a corner.

Plus he is a good pick for NC partner, if you look at the two the both sorta acknowledge eachother but don't really take stances for the most part. Not sure where you are getting "that's not scum and scum" from there.

I feel like Jake's protecting ac over a mostly useless PR is bad. He says ac is scummy, but he wants me more. I don't the a nearly VT PR is any better than VT and if ac does get lynched at some point and flips scum I would say Jake is scum with him. Calling us good partners seems to me like Jake trying to get hap to back off ac and agree with him. If he and ac are scum together, this would be very beneficial to them, because I'm going to flip town.

Spoiler:

I don't know if nic is going to flip scum, it's possible he flips town but I seriously doubt it. Usually wagons on a townie do not take this much effort, and they almost certainly don't generate multiple counter wagons.

If i had to guess, Nic is a scum PR which is why it's making it that much harder, even just a scum goon would not be this difficult as scum would just buss from town cred.

I think this is just more bad reasoning to get hap to back off. Maybe it's so difficult because I'm

not

scum. This is more for posterity than anything else.

To sum it all up, I think Jake is scum because he tunneled on an easy target all game, doing almost no scumhunting anywhere else, and is avoiding lynching other scummy players for bad reasons, possibly indicating that they're partners. He made little effort to understand my motivations because it was more in his interest to just call them scummy, and while my lurking was a major point against he made no effort to force me to be active.

[NicCage]

I recognize that all of this could be wrong also.

Jake, sorry, I didn't realize that was asking for clarification. What needs clarified?

[NicCage]

Yeah, sorry about that. Finals came first, and I can't really get reads without rereading, which is difficult when I have a lot to reread.

Honestly I'll hammer me if it comes to that, I'm pretty sure that would be more beneficial

[NicCage]

I don't think you're gonna get that.
Also dys leans town imo. Toomai could also possibly be town by what dys said, but that is by no means certain. SB is a a sack of null and needs to be forced to contribute more tomorrow. Off the top of my head GCBC seems suspicious, but I think GCBC and Jake seems somewhat unlikely at this point. I'd keep an eye on that though. Ac should probably be lynched I think. Other than that, good luck, hopefully I've helped you catch some scum.

[NicCage]

I don't want to lynch daemon

[NicCage]

Lol yeah that's a possibility. Still, next time don't tunnel or dig harder.

[NicCage]

There really aren't the votes around to rethink. I say go ahead unless hap has any other ideas.

[NicCage]

Actually, We have like 14 hours don't we? I'll be around to move my vote so you can count on me

[NicCage]

I mean, I'd lynch Jake, but I don't feel that strongly about any other players other than ac and scott. Hi Cheery Pie, what do you think of my Jake case?

[NicCage]

Cheery Pie has definitely been flying under the radar for me. Cheery Dog has been a townread for me in both games I've played with him, and earlier I thought I saw that same town play, but now that I'm rereading him I'm not at all sure this is the case. He's definitely someone to look out for.

[NicCage]

Well, am I still scum?

[NicCage]

I don't know. I guess I can go back and reread, but I don't really want to make too much out of meta. After all, there are 2 players there.

But yes, I felt that he was more obv town in those two games. This is really a gut feeling. Cheery Pie is asking directed questions too so I can't exactly tell. If you're looking for a Cheery wagon this might not be the time.

[NicCage]

The fact you chose toomai was extremely weird.

Wat.

You mean, the other guy that hp mentioned?

Those two reasons just feel weak, I don't know why you think they're as strong as you do/did. This is why I would expect you to try to get more out of me, the person you're trying to tunnel, to make sure you had the wrong person. The certainty that these reasons gave you to continue to push my lynch does not look town motivated.

[NicCage]

right person, I should say. also messed up quote

[NicCage]

Oh, oops guess he didn't, sorry. Still, my point stands