Micro 596: Longnight Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Postie]

Hey Postie you were just online, but you didn't post in here. What gives?

Hi. I came in, saw a "first post" and a "Sup" and wanted to add something productive. Couldn't think of anything, so I decided to read Shortnight in case there was anything useful to be learned from it.

I want to RVS vote someone but I'm paranoid that a legit VI will hammer after not reading the set-up.

RQS anyone...? You're scum; what's your plan for this game? Go!

[Postie]

Does it? What am I missing?

[Postie]

How could a person be planning to catch scum as scum? If they're scum, there's nothing to "catch".

[Postie]

What do you mean by "keep everyone alive for the initial lynch"?

[Postie]

Oh, I see, you mean you wouldn't bus.

Any idea of what you'd do within your group to get yourself townread and the others scumread?
Idk about bussing, but I reckon scum!me would tunnel one person in the group and try to townbloc with the other, and then put on as convincing a "oh no how could I have been wrong" performance as possible.

[Postie]

Damn, such vague answers.

VOTE: PantherPunt
Mostly RVS, a little bit serious. I'm getting bad vibes from his comments on the lurkers.

Tell me more about this.

[Postie]

Is there any way for you to explain why they seem forced?

[Postie]

Postie- gun to your head read on TIMU?

Not a clue. I've seen tryhard townies get scumread by other town for looking, well, tryhard. It's not a great argument, but I wouldn't call it scummy. Given that TiMU's other content has been of a similar quality, I could very well see town!TiMU making this argument, especially early on in the game.

[Postie]

What do you think about PantherPunt, Postie?

I think he's making your argument out to be scummier than it is, but I don't know whether that's because he has an agenda or whether you guys are just confusing each other.

[Postie]

@PantherPunt

- I get that you think TiMU's argument about you asking about lurkers feels forced. Can you summarise the rest of your problems with TiMU? Is it mainly his original point or his response to your pressure that's bugging you?

[Postie]

it isn't fit for a Town mindset to ask other people to post without having any productive content.

Do you still think that that's more likely to come from scum than town? If so, why?
I guess you could

maybe

call it anti-town or hypocritical (although I don't think it is), but neither of those things are necessarily scummy.

[Postie]

I messed up, it isn't anti-Town but it wouldn't come from a Town mindset IMO. Town would want to try and be productive, whether that means ED1 casing or asking questions. Panther did the latter but it has no relevance on the game so I can't really credit him with it. Meanwhile, Mafia would to look productive without really doing much. Like what PantherPunt did.

Town would want to try and be as productive as possible, but it doesn't always work that way in practice. If you were excited to start a game, and nothing was happening even though people had checked the game thread, wouldn't you be a little bit frustrated with them too? Can you see why that might have caused PantherPunt to ask about them?

[Postie]

suspicion and vote on me forced

What do you make of the fact that this was very early on in the game, and partly an RVS vote?

then flipflopping on whether it was a playstyle clash that he was just commenting on to "get discussion going" or he felt I was actually anti-town/scummy for it. (still don't know where he stands atm)

What do you think makes this scummy?

made a potential perspective-slip

I didn't catch this. Can you point it out to me?

worried about my read on him vs my read on trollie; it's a self-concious mindset that I more typically see come from scum. (or newbs, but N/A here)

I mean I know he's not a

complete

newb, but do you not think the rest of his content feels newbish too? What makes you think he wouldn't be self-conscious as town?

[Postie]

Probably. I'm just trying to figure out if this is TvT or not. If one of those two is scum, it's probably PP. I'm getting newbtown vibes from TiMU and PP seems to be blowing a lot of TiMU's stuff out of proportion and making the kind of arguments I can only see coming from town if they're confbiased, which he might be, but idk, seems a bit early.

I know you're V/LA, but do you have anything to contribute? It'd be good to get some more content from you seeing as everyone else hasn't shown up yet.

[Postie]

Oh. I was hoping you'd be able to go into more detail on reasoning and stuff.

[Postie]

Tell me how you got a probtown read on either of them, please, trollie

townvibes bro

TIMU for voting

which at first seemed stupid but he's right

Postie for her inquisition

So you think my post asking why those other two didn't post is alignment indicative too? I'm assuming so since you called TIMU "right"? TIMU has since doubled back and softy implied it's not scummy but just a playstyle difference. You sticking with calling it scummy or do you want to sheep him back to null like you sheeped the scum read?

And Postie for the inquisition. Are you referring to the hypothetical RVS inquisition or the two questions to TIMU that were a essentially identical to my questions?

Wanna answer PP's questions while you're here?

[Postie]

TIMU is being too reckless for scum

Can you tell me more about this? Have you played with scum-TiMU before?

[Postie]

no i havent

Then what makes you think he's "too reckless for scum"?

[Postie]

The ole too scummy to be scum argument? That's how you're justifying a townread on TIMU?

That's... not really what he said.

[Postie]

Whatlol

[Postie]

I haven't seen reasons yet, just "Panther is scum" so I'm inclined to think all 3 scum are pushing that and others may be falling victim to perceived "thread consensus"

I'm starting to think PantherPunt might be town here just because of how brazenly arrogant and paranoid this kind of thinking is.

[Postie]

VOTE: PantherPunt
Mostly RVS, a little bit serious. I'm getting bad vibes from his comments on the lurkers.

^hedgeeeeeeeee. You can't have it both ways.

Tell me more about these bad vibes

Extremely defensive over a mostly RVS vote. It's not a hedge either lol. Bad tone too

Why is his defensiveness scummy? And what do you mean by "bad tone" and why is it scummy?

[Postie]

I'm taking the first posts I see to prove the point that a lot of his shit is extremely scummy. Do you really want me to make a convincing post?

Yes, because so far I'm not really seeing the obvscumminess you claim is there.

To answer your question, defensiveness in RVS is scummy as fuck,

Okay but why

especially with a tone like that. The tone is that he's desperately struggling for townreads. Strongest word is Desperately.

I'm not sure I understand. Do you not like the fact he's struggling for townreads or is he giving off an air of trying too hard to form townreads and not being able to?

[Postie]

Anyway Postie, RVS is a time of silliness. Getting overtly defensive over a silly vote is extremely scummy for reasons I'm assuming you don't need to know. If you need to know, just ask again.

Oh, I see what you mean. Reading it again, I don't think it was defensive though, and could have been a genuine attempt to pressure to TiMU to move the game out of RVS. I will agree that how defensive he's been in some other places has been a little overblown, although I don't think that defensiveness in response to pressure is a scumtell in itself.

@PantherPunt

- Do you have some past scumgames you can link me to?

Town games are easy to find so I'll dig some up myself when I have the time.
What I'm trying to figure out is if PP naturally a more erratic player or if he's been acting erratic because he has something to hide.

[Postie]

Postie- haven't randed scum yet on this site but I'll link you offsite scum and town if that's allowed here.

I think that's allowed. I've seen other players do it before as well.

Thanks!

[Postie]

Okay, I'm not sure I'm seeing the same kind of "help I'm drowning in scum"-type paranoia I'm seeing here in your town

or

scumgame, but you're definitely pretty aggressive as town.
Gonna have to think this through some more, but I'm getting the sense that most of the things you're being scumread for are probably NIA in your case.

[Postie]

@Postie

Why did were you not interacting at all with KTS prior to when I joined in and started questioning him abou PP vs TIMU? Since we're stuck in a group, I find it a bit odd that nothing was said about him until I started disagreeing with him, at which point you appear to have joined in on my side of it.

Sorry, I got so caught up in Group 3 drama I kinda forgot our group existed.

[Postie]

If you're not Mafia, Trollie is Mafia because her content is rather lackluster and lazy compared to mine.

Literally all of your content has been like the safest possible things you could post though.

[Postie]

"case"

[Postie]

Scum would not want to try and advance RVS. Generating discussion as scum would be anti-scum. A much better option would be to lurk until someone else creates content, or they could post random things that look useful but aren't really.

Generating discussion can help town lynch scum, but looking scummy when you're scum helps town lynch scum much more easily; if you look town, town can have all the discussion they want and they still won't be likely to lynch you. Therefore, for scum, looking town should trump holding back discussion. Which means that they need to create useful or useful-looking content, such as content that moves the game out of RVS. So, sorry, you're not getting any townpoints for that from me.

[Postie]

RC! HI!

[Postie]

Postie, why are you townread if you're town D:

I must be scum then D:

[Postie]

That's what I was saying damnit.

Oh. Well you're probably right.

VOTE: Postie

[Postie]

UNVOTE:

Because I only ever self-vote as town so I'm cleared now.

Do you have a read on TiMU?

[Postie]

Panther is definitely town.

Oh good, that's what I was starting to think. Reasoning?

[Postie]

Sure, why not. I can roll with that until paranoia kicks in.

[Postie]

I meant paranoia about Panther's alignment and your/my ability to read him.
Have you played with him before?

[Postie]

Does he have a super scary scumgame that I should be worried about?

Nah, I don't think so. He linked his games as scum in a post like 2 pages back so you can check it out yourself if you want to.

Why are you townreading Panther?

Finding it hard to explain at the minute, but basically what I said earlier somewhere about him sounding a lot like aggressive/paranoid town. Still could be scum that's letting the fact they're scum subconsciously drive them insane like what happened when I was Cop in Wordsneak, but I'm just feeling aggressive/paranoid town more right now.

[Postie]

For the record this doesn't even make sense.
If a VI hammers and you didn't selfvote the hammer would by default be on scum.

Oh yeah. I'm dumb.

Why say this if you are town? How is adding additional wifom to the game, even as a joke, beneficial?

This answer is that it is not, and this comes across as terribly scummy.

Why is it scummy?
Anti-town =/= scummy

Although I think it should be fairly obvious that it's probably a bad idea to try and read into a joke I made to determine my alignment.

[Postie]

Why say this if you are town? How is adding additional wifom to the game, even as a joke, beneficial?

This answer is that it is not, and this comes across as terribly scummy.

I see that KTS is calling me scum, I don't feel the same way about him so it seems like this is the way I will have to vote.

VOTE: Postie

Also that last paragraph makes it sound like you're just putting down a vote because someone put one on you and you want to move attention away from yourself.

[Postie]

@Postie, No one has put a vote on me, read the game Postie.

Oops. Well, replace "put a vote on you" with "called you scum" and my point still stands.

[Postie]

Oh hold on Rhaegar is in my group.

Goodie.

VOTE: Rhaegar

[Postie]

Great. So that happened.

I need to sleep because it's 5AM here but I promise I'll explain more stuff tomorrow.

[Postie]

You've made that promise and not pulled through in the past </3.

Swear on your undying love for the postal system.

Don't worry, I actually have stuff to say. It's just difficult right now because phoneposting.

I swear on every stamp I will ever lick.

[Postie]

Also can we keep the personal attacks to a minimum because I don't want to wake up tomorrow to find half of you modkilled.

[Postie]

Ugh what did I just wake up to.

Alright, I'm going to try and parse everything that's happened now.

[Postie]

Firstly, here's an exchange from the Mafia Discussion forum that might be of relevance:

Anyway I've decided that if ever an RVS reaches L1 it's my duty to hammer.
Mostly because such a thing seems like it would be scum-driven and anything that rocks the scum's boat is a good thing.

lol that sounds like a great strategy. im going to start doing that.

This means two things:
1) I'm an idiot for not seeing this coming.
2) KTS may well be town here. Actually, with how awful Rhaegar's been, I'm pretty sure he is.

[Postie]

oh shit

oh s h i t

O H S H I T

thats what you get for being a cheeky knobhead

I don't know if KTS is British but these posts fit the archetype of a young immature British male pretty well. He sounds exactly like he walked straight out of

The Inbetweeners

. I don't know if you have those kinds of people in America or wherever everyone else is, but either way, this feels exactly like the kind of person who would lolhammer 6 days into day 1 as town.

[Postie]

Can we make a bet on this Postie?

I guarantee you that KTS is scum here.

That hammer gives me the exact same vibes as Massive's.

Massive's hammer in what game?

Rhaegar's postlynch shit was also ridiculously towny and I don't see him doing it in that way if he were town.
I think he was just derptown.

What was towny about it?

[Postie]

I don't feel like Ranger would have done that selfvote as town.

Why not?

I hate how quick she was to townread me as well, especially when I came into a slot that she scumread and she's been wrong about me a ridiculous number of times including in shortnight and it just feels bad.

Yeah I thought this was off too.

@Ranger

- You were wrong about RC in Shortnight. Why are you so confident again here?

He didn't really miss a step in his continuing to play the game after being lynched.
I feel like if he were scum instead of continuing to try to sort people, which he was doing, he'd do something like scream OMG I WAS TOWN WHY DID YOU MORONS LYNCH ME I HATE YOU ALL LYNCH X Y Z and something that would feel like more deliberate wifom introducing than what he did which genuinely felt like he was trying to sort people.

Plus I'm super sure that KTS's reaction was a scum reaction. My experience tells me that Town!KTS would have taken the shit I was saying a lot more personally and him staying calm and brushing it off is far, far more likely to be a scum than a town reaction. Town usually takes things personally, scum usually takes things impersonally unless they're making a show of things and KTS was clearly not trying to make a show of things. And the hammer just feels so horrible. And posts like 485 and 487 are just so terrible. I don't think I would townread you even if I had a cop inno but I can't even take seriously the thought that KTS is town here.

Ehh, fair enough; I've never played with KTS before. I'm still leaning more towards KTS being town and Rhaegar being scum, but I guess it doesn't matter now.

[Postie]

Postie, what are your thoughts on group 3?

Leaning towards Trollie for scum, I think? PP still seems town to me. Idk I need to reread.

[Postie]

Just ISO'd TiMU and might be leaning the other way now. Everything he's posted is so superficial. I don't know if that's just because he's a newb though.

Trollie needs to post more. :/

[Postie]

Oh. Oops.

[Postie]

* After you're dead (e.g. after I post your death, not after L-0), no posts of

ANY KIND

.

Hold on that doesn't sound like they can't post.

@Mod

- Are players allowed to post after being L-0'd?

[Postie]

That too.

[Postie]

There is nothing to walk through. TiMU is being too safe for me to be able to tell with any degree of certainty whether he's newbtown or newbscum and I have no idea how to get a read on Trollie.

[Postie]

WOAH....i legit did not realize until just now that my threesome is PP TIMU and I.

Sweet so ima ignore the two of you now and check back in once others start posting.

This could be a sign that Trollie is town... maybe. I think scum are more likely to remember who's in their group since they need to plan how they're going to get whomever lynched and stuff.

[Postie]

It doesn't seem like the kind of thing scum would think to fake to me.

[Postie]

Oh, I see what you mean. I don't think so though, since I only realised around that point that they were all in a group together too and my first thought was basically "WOAH" as well.

[Postie]

Someone brought up that it's anti-town as well but it was used smartly to catch a scum here.

What? It was only used to "catch a scum" if Ranger isn't scum. If Ranger is scum, this means nothing.

[Postie]

Postie, why were you townreading TIMU over Trollie?

Literally just gut. They're both awful and I can't read them.

[Postie]

Cool. So. Were you scum?
I mean judging by that hammer, probably not, but I can dream.

[Postie]

If Rhaegar is scum I'll be venged but I don't know if sharing my thoughts is a good idea in case he's not and it ends up helping scum if they have a vengekill in another group. :/

[Postie]

Assuming this is in fact a triple town flip my picks for scum would be:

NM/KillTheStory/Trollie

3rding this.

What's your spreadsheet result?

Your results are a little tricksy this game so I need to double-check a few things, but I'm like 92% sure you're town.

[Postie]

Make sure you get KTS venged please

[Postie]

That vengekill was atrocious but gg.

[Postie]

I doubt I could've got RC lynched in the end anyway, so meh on the missed venge

I spent half the night double checking my list of tells and driving myself insane. Data said scum, head and heart said town. ;-;
I would have lynched him in lylo probably.

[Postie]

Postie give spreadsheet pls.

Sure, I'll give access. To other people. And then we'll form a secret society that maintains and updates the spreadsheet. A secret society that plots your demise.

jk

If I wanted to be that mean I'd turn it into an RC-alignment-reading bot and then release it for everyone on the site to use.

I don't think you'd have lynched me <3

Probably not based just on the content I had to go off up until now, but I like to think you would have gotten obvscummier with more pressure on you. This was definitely one of your townier scumgames though, so good job.

Also congrats on the scummy; you definitely deserve it!

[Postie]

Your spreadsheet did not save you from 2 losses to Scum!RC including one where I replaced into a slot that was generally scumread.

I will say 10 very nice things about you if you share the spreadsheet damnit.

Haha, well, if it's so useless, it shouldn't matter.

[Postie]

Well, it's not all bad - you get to be something resembling a Compulsive Friendly Neighbour in your town games with me.

[Postie]

And because I don't think Maestro linked to it:
This was my thought process.

Holy heck. An impressive amount of thought went into that.