Mini 1820 — Lazy Summer Mafia (Game Over)

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What's up

VOTE: rask

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Indeed it does.

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VOTE: manuel

wagon him!

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Page 2 quicklynch, let's do it

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rb is manuel's scumbuddy

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Lol

How about you do this

Code: Select all

[v]manuel[/v]

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Oh wait there's 3 scum. Forgot this is mini not micro.

Oh did you just try to fake townslip?

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But you'll get even more towncred that way!

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fake townslip is fake.

You'll have to explain this...

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Oh, that's interesting

rb is town I think

Now vote manuel, we need to make the page 2 quicklynch happen

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Fine

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Not really...

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I would probably be corn muffin.

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Yeah he fake townslipped to see if I would catch on which is towny.

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He did it as a reaction test

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I don't think scum would go through that much effort to fake trying to read people this early on. I could be wrong though.

Do you have any reads yourself?

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Hmm, do you usually act this...uncertain?

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Maybe if you showed how you were trying to figure out the game that would be enough.

Anyway do your best.

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What do you think about naomi

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It actually kind of looked like it might be AtE to me

despite my sig

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Yeah, potentially. That's why I asked you about it.

I don't know if town would find it necessary to say that, it might have been scum trying to get sympathy. But idk.

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Oooh lots of stuff.

Rask is gut town for now. Same with DGB

I feel like aristo could be scum, I think scum could come up with that naomi read explanation if pressured on it. I feel like it was slightly overdone for how weak the townread was.

Naomi was bleh and I don't like how she asked rem to unvote. She could be a nervous town though

Also manuel throwing shade and not adding anything useful is bleh. Though it could be town paranoia.

rem could be scum for the townslip right after the discussion about faking townslips, though that would be pretty bold...so still null..

Aristo what do you think about manuel?

VOTE: naomi

It will be interesting to try to pressure-read naomi given her personality

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I think they were just keeping their vote on the wagon to see what manuel would do under pressure

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Hmm I actually think naomi is town. I wouldn't expect scum in her position to be this transparent, I would expect them to AtE their way into hiding their motivations.

Back to this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: manuel

Reads manuel?

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reading games blind is very very helpful since playing games takes a long time, and it allows you to adapt your scumhunting strategy and learn much quicker

PEdit: do your best naomi. You should try to avoid being lynched, but if it happens that isn't the end of the world. Try to help contribute to the game as best you can.

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rb, who would be the most likely busser?

bussing is when scum votes their scumbuddies.

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UNVOTE: rb

I feel like someone on that early Manuel wagon is scum.. Don't know who though.

I have no idea why everyone suddenly started scumreading Naomi.

I have no idea why you'd suddenly defend me like that :/ It seems kinda out of no where, given that by the votes with no text that the people on me are looking for a reaction its really strange that you'd think they are scum reading me. the only one that is, is RB... why do you have a town read on me? is what I guess I'm not asking very well here.

This is towny, and I kind of agree...

Vote stays where it is for now

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VOTE: IPS

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IPS is giving off very different vibes from the games I read with him in it as town. Though I do remember him warning about early wagon in that game too...

Early wagons are good for reactions.

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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

This was the game, it finished relatively recently so yeah. Enough for a vote for now.

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I'm comfortable with putting naomi as town now.

Not much else...

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Well I thought it was towny

Well if you want to talk, I can say I disagree on your rask and aristo reads.

I can kinda see the gears turning in rask's head and it feels like he's trying to figure out the game in an overall sense. Him nitpicking on things looks towny to me.

Aristo, just because of gut I guess

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UNVOTE: rb

I feel like someone on that early Manuel wagon is scum.. Don't know who though.

I have no idea why everyone suddenly started scumreading Naomi.

AtE

How is that AtE?

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Hmm, you said you were voting me for pressure, but you never said you had a scumread on me, can you explain that?

Also, why rem?

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You can't scumread people for weak reasoning 8 pages into the game...

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Because all reasoning at this point is going to be weak, since there isn't much to go on.

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Exactly, and that's what IPS is scumreading rem for. Full circle...

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Because all reasoning at this point is going to be weak, since there isn't much to go on.

VOTE: Infinity

Just nope.

I'm not using it to make excuses, so how is that scummy?

My reasoning is, well, reasonable for this early on d1, and IPS called it out as scumy. Same with vibes.

Vote me for my reasoning if you think it's bad, not for my idea about the game.

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Early game is a lot more valuable looking back imo

By definition, later game you'll have more information since you can also look back at the early game.

If you think you can make strong cases against people on page 8, I strongly disagree.

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That's...true, but that doesn't mean you can make very strong arguments for scum on page 8...

The fact that you think this theory discussion is AI is questionable...

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Yeah but you have to look at context. There isn't a particular scum motivation to saying what I said there, because I'm trying to scumhunt just as hard as if I didn't say that.

The scum you're talking about there, I assume, tried to use their statement to make excuses or ignore valid evidence. That's certainly not what I'm doing here. I'm using it to argue against IPS's reasoning which doesn't really make sense.

And of course, expression suspicion is questionable...

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If you don't think I'm trying to scumhunt, that would be a completely different issue and your vote would've been on me before I made that statement...

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I think it's pretty likely he's scum at this point, those reads don't seem to be genuinely trying to figure people out and his posts rub me the wrong way.

I know you were voting IPS, it's just that if me not scumhunting was the problem, there shouldn't have been a change for you when I said the statement about reasons being weak on page 8.

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Yes, I believe I am scumhunting. I'm not sure what kind of response you were expecting...

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Ok lol

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I'm not using it as an excuse to scumhunt less than I otherwise would, I'm just going with what I got.

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Do you agree with what IPS was saying?

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I guess my question is whether you would expect better reasoning from a page 8 vote

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If that was a fake townslip not for reactions, I wouldn't expect him to say it was a reaction test, I would expect him to just say it was a real townslip...

I have reason to believe rb would do something like that to see my reaction in particular.

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Through page 4. Townreading infinity and probably Ari too.

Naomis posts are so LAMIST but still kinda lean town though I'm not sure why.

Why are you townreading ari?

Yeah I think naomi is town but tries a little too hard to look town.

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I don't find slandaar doing nothing scummy, it's not very helpful though. Town does that stuff all the time :/

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He's probably waiting for a reaction...

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Sometimes we have to wait...~

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That's shallow slandaar...

Undecided town doesn't have to ask questions to be undecided. I don't think there was a question he could've asked to help him figure out the situation more.

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You're welcome to disagree, I don't see how that makes me scum...

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VOTE: LQ

Proved wrong but then doesn't try to re-evaluate

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I wanted to stay on the manuel wagon for pressure

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I guess I expected the first thing LQ to do to unvote, I do accept that he could've been about to do that in his next post.

However, his slandaar sheep feels a little like buddying (though a bit obvious). I guess the main problem I have with LQ arm is that, through all that, he didn't give an opinion on rask.

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Hey LQ, do you tend to play...goofily as town?

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Can I have a link then?

Idk why, the thought popped into my head of you having a certain style naturally and I don't see that here.

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Never mind, that isn't the case

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Look at that beetle juice...

VOTE: aristo

I like this.

Would also like to point out that he defended naomi stronger than his read would suggest, I find that to be a reasoanbly strong scumtell.

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Do you agree with what IPS was saying?

Not really i just didnt like your response to his reasoning.

Do you also find that people who say that early game reads are weaker are more often scum?

I wanted to stay on the manuel wagon for pressure

I think i mentioned that before but why should i feel pressured by RVS votes? If i get killed by that i am happy to get into a new game.

Sometimes, even RVS wagons make people scared of being lynched, or at least they know their actions are being scrutinized.

I defended Naomi stronger than I had expected because as I began explaining it my read got stronger. It happens.

And I was prodded, not Beetlejuiced. Believe what you like though.

Well, ok

VOTE: Naomi-Tan
Isoed her last game till Day1 ends and some posts into her 2nd last game. Her playstyle is totaly different in my opinion.
She already made an excuse for that but that excuse is invalid as she hasnt really been pressured since page 3 and still keeps up that silly i am so innocent and silly act.

She got really defensive when Slandaar asked her about that and still didnt answer his question but accused him of throwing shade at her instead.

Have you read naomi's scumgame?

I had to Iso you to see that, as I have yet to read that portion on the game. I don't think I've been hiding that fact. How did you miss it?

I was under the impression that you were caught up based on this:

Have to read from page 6, as I said.

Granted, I missed that you said you were behind in that same post.

I understand that you missed a bunch of things, but it rubs me the wrong way that almost everything you've done so far was based on you missing something.

Can I get a readslist or something?

Manuel Flipflopping his Naomi read cause of a meta ISO looks shitty to me.

I probably had the same townread everyone else has.

Probably?

In my opinion activity stalking means you are looking for someone you can throw shade on.

Posting in other threads or being online doesnt necessarily mean you are lurking.
Take me for example yesterday i had the gamethread opened the whole day at work but i couldnt read anything because of meetings and other stuff.
Now take the same situation while you are active in 2 or 3 games. You want to read everything before you write a response to something at least i would want to.
That takes time now you have 3 games to catch up on and you may not manage all 3 games so instead of playing all of them halfassed you decide to concentrate on the ones further into the game.

True ppl could actually just be lurking but i like that players get replaced after their 3rd prod so i doubt ppl would deliberately get prodded just to lurk for a little longer.

Thats also why i only play one game at a time because there are days i cant manage to read at all.

I understand why you think the argument is weak, why does that make it scummy?

Guys Im really Convinced Manuel87 might be scum because of the huge miss rep in this post

@Raskolnikov: In my opinion stalking ppl for activity and pointing it out as soon as you find someone that is active in other games is even more scummy.
You had been scumread by some ppl and instead of addressing that you disappeared yourself and came back by throwing shade at ppl that also were inactive.

I'm not talking about myself in this one I'm talking about Raskolnikov Because her argument found here;

snip

Though does mention his lurking is mostly focused on pointing out his meta and reasoning behind the vote and the lurking doesn't seem to be the major focus of their case. in fact when I looked over the main body of astro's section nothing was said about this, its like he read the first line and represented his entire cased based on that.. and he obviously finds meta a valid voting point because at the same time he was using it to pressure me. am I just seeing things guys? or is this just town paranoia? or am I onto something? Could do with some Assistance looking at this matter.

Actually, this is quite a good point. Manuel, what do you think about the rest of rask's argument?

Noting that manuel has chainsawed both aristo and IPS so far.

There are a lot of scummy-looking players for early d1, there's a good chance of at least 2 scum being in {ari, LQ, manuel, IPS}.

I was thinking about the setup a bit and concluded that mafia roleblocker and jailkeeper are the only PRs that would really make sense. Tracker, watcher, rolecop, etc. don't really work because after you use them on n2, everyone is essentially vanilla anyway. Encryptor doesn't make sense because daychat at night does nothing lol. Ninja, strongman, BP, doctor, etc are possible, but counter a specific town role and when everyone is 1-shot that's not really necessary. Just something to keep in mind, I guess. (don't randomly claim yadda yadda)

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Hi replacement

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Actually I'm bored and unable to sleep so I might as well start reading this now
So I'm on page 3 now and...
Eh...regarding the "fake townslip"...I just glossed over that when I read it. All I thought of it was: rb's fooling around. But then was surprised a "fake townslip" suggestion came at all. Just to be clear @rb and infinity
Is that like a playstyle gimmick infinity is known for or sth? Pointing out townslips or whatever?

It relates to an ongoing game.

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Can't you answer without referring to that ongoing? Is this "are you fake townslipping" a consistent playstyle gimmick or not? Because that's a weird way to interpret rb's posts on page one and this whole reaction test episode makes me scratch my head

No, but I think you would understand within the context of that game.

It's not a consistent playstyle thing.

PEdit: yeah I agree

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Support IPS, manuel, aristo, and to a lesser extent LQ wagons.

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Aristophanes*
I feel they might be scum. but not based on their own actions but based on rasks case showing he is on his scum meta and Manuel87 Chainsaw Defence given I think Manuel87 might be scum its just the combination of these two factors making me think there scummy I thought there content was pretty good so.. guilt by association and meta here. Its a pretty weak footing for me to stand on though if Manuel87 is a member of town then I'd clear them based on that.

What do you think about rask's point that aristo's defense was too confident

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Sorry guys I got lazy

rb, can you give an example of another time you got annoyed at someone for scumreading you based on meta?

Also hi kts

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Great wall of china catchup post incoming

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Do you also find that people who say that early game reads are weaker are more often scum?

No but you said all reasoning earlygame is weak which i disagree on.
Also your answer didnt really adress what IPS said.

Fair enough.

I have read a little into it. The playstyle is different from this game but its similar in the sense that she fakes the "oh i am so nooby pls excuse all my mistakes"

Ok, seems pretty weak but I'll accept it. What do you think about how transparent she is and how she makes such a big deal out of trying to get the game moving?

In my opinion activity stalking means you are looking for someone you can throw shade on.

Posting in other threads or being online doesnt necessarily mean you are lurking.
Take me for example yesterday i had the gamethread opened the whole day at work but i couldnt read anything because of meetings and other stuff.
Now take the same situation while you are active in 2 or 3 games. You want to read everything before you write a response to something at least i would want to.
That takes time now you have 3 games to catch up on and you may not manage all 3 games so instead of playing all of them halfassed you decide to concentrate on the ones further into the game.

True ppl could actually just be lurking but i like that players get replaced after their 3rd prod so i doubt ppl would deliberately get prodded just to lurk for a little longer.

Thats also why i only play one game at a time because there are days i cant manage to read at all.

I understand why you think the argument is weak, why does that make it scummy?

I think the bolded part explains your question its my personal opinion as i stated in my first post in response to Raskolnikov i dont like activity stalking since it doesnt help town its just throwing shade on other ppl.

Why can't it be town who actually believes if you post in one game but not others that is scummy?

Actually, this is quite a good point. Manuel, what do you think about the rest of rask's argument?

His argument is Aristos scumplay is really good protownfaking. so yeah should we lynch him for being a good player? i dont think so.

No, his argument is that aristo's read on naomi changed to too confident too quickly.

So ill give my reads instead.

Ok these reads seem pretty genuine, but some need more explaining. Why did you put slandaar at town, DGB at lean town, and IPS as scum?

okay so...
isolate this and it looks like towny busy work

Spoiler:

Aristophanes is scum though. He reads really fake to me and the one thing which was going for him in my eyes was the depth of the naomi read (59 -> part of 63); usually people thinking that in-depth so early and unnecessarily/unprompted is a huge towntell, though even at that point I was wondering how he took it that far ("It's just a few things like that which make me think "towny." " makes it sound like he has a massive multifaceted read). But looking into aristo meta to he actually does this as scum!
mini 1781
micro 627
I see him love to give out townreads in creative ways as scum and in general hand them out like candy almost to a fault; with all of that there's little effort faking scumhunting. You see a few of them are almost ridiculous in context or really stand out for early reads. OTOH in his towngames the townreading is dialed back a LOT and you see a lot more scumhunting focus.
I think what happens is when something strange/confusing happens from a player, while town are actually trying to judge align aristo since he knows it's town can afford to put the effort into explaining exactly why their town and misunderstood. I think the naomi read really is spot on and so insightful and that naomi is town (after her content) but its like aristo could come up with that read so early/confidently he never actually doubted it. This is the kind of read where I'm either a genius and he panics in scum pt or I'm a total idiot for reading this deep into ~5 posts but I'll go with the former. Along with naomi read the tone kind of bothers me (57, 69) and I think the timing is he got lazy at the traditional point where scum realize they have to start faking doing something useful (in a town position having that early townread is a big help though) but these are more minor.

Though this is kind of awkward because even though aristos probably scum (and dbg is still a promising lead) the inactivity still makes it feel like a big waste doing this, like I almost feel bad(selfish?) doing my own thing compared to everyone else. But I don't really scumread the actives (some NULLs but eh.). TBH I think 2016 lurker-lenient meta helps scum to the point where if they strategized to they could intentionally just lurk and get out the d1 lynchpool, town lynch scummiest active town, they come back day 2 active and nobody cares. Nowadays I see people so against that kind of lynch + I think there's a natural tendency to just sort what you see in front of you so null in a pool of 5 will still be top scumread. 2 of my games 2 scum players were just afk and prodded and people were literally forced to lynch scummiest looking town and it's like okay I think I understand why they used to policy lynch them in old games. But anyways!
VOTE: Aristo

put it back in the thread and look at the context and what the gamestate was like at the time rask made this post...we're talking about only 3 irl days into the game. it. feels. off. i've been in a game before where the same scumari meta bullet points were brought up against him(by a player who was once in a scum team together with him or sth in a past game), maybe it's because im comparing the two gamestates that i notice how off rask's post is? gamestate here was: barely out of rvs, most people had no appreciable reads, half the playerlist lurking, and the ones posting werent really posting much content. rask's post is the kind of post i expect when more than half the playerlist have more solid lists and people eventually get to ari or other lurkers and pressure them for more content or put them as scum by elimination.
timing of the post feels way too early for a meta dive this busy...i'd even argue this is a counter intuitive thing to do considering how early this analysis was, because it makes ari more self aware to how he's being perceived and renders the whole point of your post moot.
second is...i really dont see how he gave that townread to naomi too easily? his read on her felt organic and looked genuine to me. i also liked his comment on rem.
ari so far feels town to me. mostly tonal read and i like the early content he provided


this combined with this :

Spoiler:

I think 1-2 scum are likely in the inactives at this point

This is a very weird post considering it was page five and barely anything noteworthy had happened, and lurking had yet to become a thing

are pinge-y stuff to me

also there's a 3rd point i want to bring up but it's slightly tinfoily so i'll keep it to later if i still think it stands

Ehh

You have a point, but it could also be town who is trying to get the game going/explain his read in depth.

Yeah okay dude I'm buddying you when I explicitly said I scumread you. Sick detective work bro.

He has a point...

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Not moving vote until LQ is gone from this game.

And that post Cheese made WAS THE POST WHERE I REALISED IT.

OBVIOUSLY I FUCKING REALISED IT AFTER IT WAS BROUGHT UP BY MY SCUMBUDDY, THE POINT THAT POINT I HAD NO IDEA THERE WAS OUTSIDE COMMS SO I NEVER PM'D ANYBODY.

Fuck off with your shit meta.

But this.... :/

It seems like overreacting and caught for the wrong reasons.

The blacklisting thing makes me want to say it's NAI but I think the caught-for-the-wrong-reasons frustration could play into that too. It just doesn't feel genuine.

I'm fairly sure one of RB/Infinity is scum and the other is town due to interactions even though I scumread both.

Congrats, that's one I have not heard before. Mind explaining? I know there is some underlying reasons for you saying such and if there isn't, you are Scum.

What?

Who are you I have reasons as I said mostly due to interaction and I dislike a lot of there posts but even if I didn't have that many reasons gut reads are a thing in this game and you'll get a lot of votes wrong for it.

I don't like this non-answer, can you actually explain why you scumread both of us?

I do not believe this is how town thinks:

i feel like he had the opportunity to capitalize on being townread and start pushing for something or start controlling town's perception of the game if he were scum, instead he backtracked on all the reads he started developing here(except for the one on naomi) and sort of took a backseat:

That is the reason to townread? really? it feels like scum making something up to me.

Can you show me examples of where scum have done this opposed to getting the townread and sitting back? Why wouldn't scum sit back and just ride the townread to victory or at least till later in the game? If someone is townread unanimously how much influence on the town do you think they have?

I disagree, I think it's town genuinely trying to explain a gut read.

MariaR just do yourself a favour by voting LQ with me and then ignoring further interactions.

:/

You don't think your emotions may be influencing you a little bit?

The fact that you aren't mad outside of the interaction makes me feel like you're just using it to push a mislynch.

So basically you think I'm town? Or you think I'm scum? I can't follow.

Why do you care so much about his read on you?

if you would like me to explain why are scum read the 2 of you I can do that.

Yes please

VOTE: Lickly I can't tell if you're just being close minded or you honestly think like that but re reading you're ISO you should have more votes then you do.

Can you try to explain this more?

because LQ is scum. Choo choo town!

Lq has been all over the place in terms of reads. and butting heads with you like that is incredibly dumb if he's scum. Your 1v1 aside, I would be scumreading him if his shade-throwing on others was more focused but it's not...hes town dude

Actually I agree with this.

snip

snip

Strong gut town here, thoughts are towny-disorganized and just generally feel genuine.

still same reads. nothing changing, everything pretty obvious. or maybe im just really tired.

Lol you realized you completely changed your naomi read? Basically the same thought process that everyone else had

Now that I think about it, I wonder if it's AI that

everyone's

read progression went that way, maybe scum saw mislynch potential and backed off. Gonna look again into the players that thought naomi was scum at the beginning and then switched to town.

Slandaar's either scum or playing bad.

That's what I thought too but I think he's just bad town...(the "survivor" user title makes me to hmmm tho)
giving out left field naked votes and holding off explanations is pretty idiotic if he's scum

Not sure if I agree with this reasoning but I also have slandaar as gut town at this point.

Nah I'm not sheeping that.

What the hell? I thought you scumread IPS?

Your read progressions on that slot in general don't make sense.

Someone other than Kraska give me an opinion on the way LQ keeps saying stuff like, "well if u did X because Y then ur town otherwise the only other reason is ur scum!"

Just reads like rly bad false dichotomy and needs to be lynched asap imo.

I think it's weak reasoning but NAI.

VOTE: Slandaar

I thought you said you wouldn't unvote LQ?

VOTE: rb

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Updated reads:

Town - Naomi, kraska
Lean town - slandaar, LQ, jarjar, maria (cause I leaned town on rem), kts
Null - rask (need to re-evaluate, the more I think about it the more I like kraska's point), manuel, DGB, aristo (need to re-evaluate as well)
Scum - rb

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appreciate if you'd share the morphing reads on myself I feel that I'm kinda divide-sive on the game, so I think that would be interesting data, might read up myself.

Hmm?

could you consolidate your RB vote reasoning into one post too infinity so Its clear to understand for everyone, thanks.

Will do.

Ok, seems pretty weak but I'll accept it. What do you think about how transparent she is and how she makes such a big deal out of trying to get the game moving?

Wil need to read again i dont remember seeing that but i might have missed it. But its a good point ill check on that when i got some time.

Why can't it be town who actually believes if you post in one game but not others that is scummy?

Well that could be but as town i would rather look at the game itself instead of looking at inactive players because as i said their activity in other games doesnt necessarily mean they are trying to lurk in this game.
As i said its my opinion this doesnt ultimately mean he is scum but i wouldnt do what he did as town i would rather try to contribute in the game itself.

No, his argument is that aristo's read on naomi changed to too confident too quickly.

Thats only a small part of his argument you are talking about and i dont agree with that argument.
He was asked about his opinion on Naomi and he answered with what probably everyone thought at that time.
Since then my opinion on Naomi has changed because i think she tried to hard to keep that act up.
But at that point i agreed with him.

Ok these reads seem pretty genuine, but some need more explaining. Why did you put slandaar at town, DGB at lean town, and IPS as scum?

Slandaar wasnt afraid to confront someone that was townread by a lot of people and handled the whole you should replace out situation well.
He made a good argument in post 281 (the one about questioning rb) that was kinda ignored
DGB is more of a guts read since she reminds me of NotMafia not sure about that one myself to be honest probably should rethink that read.
I had IPS in Null.

Ok, makes sense.

I think the reasoning and explanations would be hard to fake for noob scum, but it might be worth looking into this read again later.

Updated reads:

Town - Naomi, kraska
Lean town - slandaar, LQ, jarjar, maria (cause I leaned town on rem), kts
Null - rask (need to re-evaluate, the more I think about it the more I like kraska's point), manuel, DGB, aristo (need to re-evaluate as well)
Scum - rb

What changed your read on me specifically? And I'm looking for more that "other people started town reading you".

I liked kraska's point, plus your push on rb seemed like you were actually trying to contribute even though I didn't agree with the reasoning. Also, I feel like scum would be more careful about checking their facts before they start making pushes.

[Infinity 324]

But scum care more if something shines them in a negative light, in general.

[Infinity 324]

Updated reads:

Town - Naomi, kraska
Lean town - slandaar, LQ, jarjar, maria (cause I leaned town on rem), kts
Null - rask (need to re-evaluate, the more I think about it the more I like kraska's point), manuel, DGB, aristo (need to re-evaluate as well)
Scum - rb

What changed your read on me specifically? And I'm looking for more that "other people started town reading you".

I liked kraska's point, plus your push on rb seemed like you were actually trying to contribute even though I didn't agree with the reasoning. Also, I feel like scum would be more careful about checking their facts before they start making pushes.

So your reason for Town reading me is because of someone else's read and something I did at the beginning of the game which afterwards you Scum read me for?

Maybe you re-evaluate some reads after 10 pages and a couple days.

Yes, I liked kraska's reasoning for why you are town.
Yes, at first the way you pushed without fact checking looked off to me but I thought about it again and decided it was more likely to come from town.
And your rb push looked genuine to me.

[Infinity 324]

Hey Infinity your vote on me is the worst thing since cherry coke.

How about you explain your vote on slandaar.

DGB how about you stop being a townbeard.

[Infinity 324]

I don't think you suck at the game, and that would be NAI anyway

[Infinity 324]

That was rb, and it's something that was already cleared up...

[Infinity 324]

That was rb, and it's something that was already cleared up...

You can't seriously think I'm the scummiest player in this game and worthy of that vote.

So you think I'm scum, or lying about my reads for no particular reason?

[Infinity 324]

Other than the flip on rb's fake townslip, what's scummy about her?

I'm pretty sure she plays like this regardless of alignment.

[Infinity 324]

Other than the flip on rb's fake townslip, what's scummy about her?

I'm pretty sure she plays like this regardless of alignment.

DGB? She is completely off her town meta.

VOTE: Slandaar

His lurking, his excuses, and his kraska vote are baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

I could switch to IPS if it comes to that.

What's bad about it exactly? You have Kraska as super town?

DGB.

You are not buying the fake townslip reaction test done by rb but think he is town eh?

Yeah I'd like to hear goofballs explanation here.

I think it's weird but ultimately NAI

How can it be NAI if you don't buy the reaction test?

Maria? Her accusations have been very weak + POE.

Explain more.

Okay LQ is 100% scum.

Why?

[Infinity 324]

Explain more.

Meta wise DGB hasn't posted enough townreads, she hasn't shown anything to make someone town (in her opinion), she has been buzzwording it up an unusually high amount and the below just felt insanely off for her:

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

Explain all of your scumreads.

Fencesitting, followed by OMGUS

I know I'm good

How did I catch you so fast?

Combined with the unanswered mysteries lets call them and yeah.

Fair enough

DGB usually kinda tries to do stuff as town I think.

KTS - it's exactly what I said, he tried to charisma out of the argument he got completely wrong but it just doesn't work on me. He hasn't come back to the argument or done anything since, he knows it, he didn't reevaluate so hes scum. Hasn't provided the walls when replacing in either as an aside.

I could see town!kts replacing in, walling, then stopping giving a fuck.

I don't think DGB is scum.

Why, is she your scumbuddy?

Town:
Naomi-Tan - Just looks Newb Town
Manuel87 - I like their thought process and how they are acting like an open book
Raskolnikov - cases too good to come from Scum
Slandaar - I don't sense any kind of manipulation at all coming from him
kraska77 - I read pretty much all their interactions as genuine

Null:
JarJarDrinks - IDK. Just not screaming Town to me. I have no idea what their reads are like because we haven't gotten flips
Killthestory - Gave a readslist that I'm not really sure how to gauge in terms of honesty
MariaR - Could be Town or Scum. I liked what they said about rb and me

Scum:
Aristophanes - have not seen Scum hunting from this slot and a lot of AFK
rb - pretty sure every one saw my case
Infinity 324 - what he DOESN't say is the key factor here
DGB - Just lots of wut.

What are you missing from me?

I like your other reads quite a bit actually.

Oooh lots of stuff.

Rask is gut town for now. Same with DGB

I feel like aristo could be scum, I think scum could come up with that naomi read explanation if pressured on it. I feel like it was slightly overdone for how weak the townread was.

Naomi was bleh and I don't like how she asked rem to unvote. She could be a nervous town though

Also manuel throwing shade and not adding anything useful is bleh. Though it could be town paranoia.

rem could be scum for the townslip right after the discussion about faking townslips, though that would be pretty bold...so still null..

Aristo what do you think about manuel?

VOTE: naomi

It will be interesting to try to pressure-read naomi given her personality

Hmm I actually think naomi is town. I wouldn't expect scum in her position to be this transparent, I would expect them to AtE their way into hiding their motivations.

Back to this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: manuel

Reads manuel?

I think the 2 things up above were very stupid I think he knew Naomi was town telling and a lynch wasn't happening so tried to backtrack out of the vote sus to me!~

Or she was town telling so I started thinking she was town?

Your other points are fair enough.

Infinity you should probably not vote with LQ.

You're scum.

rb doesn't have a reason to be this angry as town, he's scum caught for the wrong reasons.

I'm getting townvibes from rask's desire to organize town a little bit. Rask (or anyone else) I'd like to talk about rb and kts cause those are the main reads I disagree with other people on.

(Rask, I think you should read my catchup on page 28)

Sorry about not being here a lot, I don't like doing mono-catchups but I've been pretty busy for the past few days

[Infinity 324]

I don't doubt that, I think you would be mad as town but your more mad cause you're scum and trying to defend yourself.

[Infinity 324]

Lol infinitynumbers rb is a duck in general and does shitfests like this a lot

Can you give 1 or 2 examples?

[Infinity 324]

rb, if you are town I suggest not talking about this anymore, it's really not helping anyone.

[Infinity 324]

No, I'm not gonna give you a mislynch because you have personal problems with someone else. Replace out or shut up.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity I'm curious why you don't ask LQ for examples of what he sees as my scummy behaviour?

Did you even read his post? He didn't even talk about behavoirs in that game that were similar to this one, he had issue with you talking about him like lynchbait because of things you guys talked about in that game. This isn't a relevant question.

And if you really believed LQ was the best d1 lynch every time you would have been voting him the entire day...

[Infinity 324]

There's no universe where rb is town and LQ is scum when LQ doesn't take back any part of his case or do anything else to appease rb here.

[Infinity 324]

One of u 2 should replace out

This

[Infinity 324]

rb, again, if you're that upset about what LQ did, you should replace out. If not, play the game as normal. It's that simple.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity I believe it now.

I thought he might actually understand how bad his case is, rather than sit there being smug as if he actually thinks I'm scum. He's obviously too dumb for this game and if he's town he's scum MVP right now. If he's scum well he should be lynched too.

There is no alignment that LQ can be where he is helping town in this game. Therefore he dies.

And no, we're not policy-lynching anyone for being "bad". ffs.

[Infinity 324]

Lynch all Liars, no?

I don't believe you actually believe in lynch all liars.

This is so fake here.

[Infinity 324]

That's fine, and I'm not replacing.

LQ is like Titus. Regardless of alignment, they should be speedlynched Day1 if town wants to win.

Again, if you actually believed this your vote would have been on LQ from the start of the game.

[Infinity 324]

You can't seriously expect me to sit here and get lied about and then accept that the player who is knowingly lying about me, then sitting back taking shots at my reactions, is a town slot.

See the thing is, you showed you were thinking about it logically earlier and even imply that you think he might be town in 859

For some other players, I'd believe you, but you're too smart to just scumread someone who you think is lying (which, by the way, I don't even think he did...)

[Infinity 324]

That's fine, and I'm not replacing.

LQ is like Titus. Regardless of alignment, they should be speedlynched Day1 if town wants to win.

Again, if you actually believed this your vote would have been on LQ from the start of the game.

No.

I've realised it DURING this game.

I don't believe you changed your opinion completely based on that one incident.

[Infinity 324]

This is what happened.

>LQ scumreads rb for calling him lynchbait, while in an off-site game LQ and rb discussed things that would make rb think that LQ wasn't lynchbait.
>rb says he wasn't taking that game seriously and didn't even read the rules
>LQ says he knew about pm's going on outside the game, argument ensues about whether rb knew about outside-of-game communication
>rb gets incredibly pissed at LQ

All of this still has nothing to do with the main point, the anger is coming from being caught as scum not some thing about the pms which doesn't even relate to why LQ scumreads rb

[Infinity 324]

That's fine, and I'm not replacing.

LQ is like Titus. Regardless of alignment, they should be speedlynched Day1 if town wants to win.

Again, if you actually believed this your vote would have been on LQ from the start of the game.

No.

I've realised it DURING this game.

Wait a sec. You changed you opinion in general on LQ, based on this game, WITHOUT KNOWING HIS ALIGNMENT IN THIS GAME??

Pretty sure this is a scumslip,

[Infinity 324]

Um Infinity, no.

I posted a screencap of my PM's on that site and he accuses me of deleting them. That isn't something I'd ever fucking do. It's actually offensive as fuck because I just wouldn't try win that way as either scum.

I also posted screencaps of where I said to multiple people I didn't know there'd been outside communication. I realised it DURING the game but played most of it totally ubaware.

Your theory is shit.

Like I didn't just fucking "say" I didn't know, I posted screenshots of me saying in multiple places that I wasn't aware of it until later in the game. I played at least half of it unaware.

Then on top of that I get accused of some sketchy shit out of game that I wouldn't do because imo that's tantamount to cheating and I'd get no pleasure winning a game like that.

And you continue to hate on LQ when he already conceded the point a long time ago...

I agree. What I am doing is not really a meta read, as I have stated. The only thing I have "lied" about is not a lie because I know as well as you that you had knowledge that PM's were happening during the game. Logically it makes sense for you to say "WTF, why is Sinny sending you a PM about the game?" but you don't say that, you say, "IDK who else she could have told." So actually YOU are the one who is lying about shit, not me.

So because I don't respond in the exact way you think I should respond...I'm lying?
Maybe different people respond to things differently?

And so you understand why: my scumbuddy said they got PM'd, then I remembered that Pmj said some thing about outside talk and whatever well before the game ever started. But I never bothered reading the setup because it was just a shits and giggles game. I had no reason to go all, "WTF!" you fucking lying fuckwit.

Doesn't matter. you're Scum for playing dumb this game.

You also had no reason to even bring up the point that you didn't read the rules, it had nothing to do with his point against you in the first place.

@LQ: me neither, but his actions in that regard don't make any sense if he's town. Think about it.

In any case, I want rb to respond to that.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity can you explain how I would somehow come to the realisation of what a worthless deadweight LQ is BEFORE he pulled the shit he just did in this game?

Never said you did. I'm saying I don't see how it's possible that you could change your opinion of LQ in general without knowing his alignment.

The fact that you think he should be auto-lynched d1 even as town has nothing to do with his scumplay, yet you came to that conclusion based on his play in this game, which you think is scum. Makes 0 sense.

LQ conceded the point? Thought you said LQ is town before because he wasn't conceding any points or appeasing me? Which is it?

Well he conceded that point, but not trying to end the argument or appease you in any way. Scum need to avoid getting lynched, a lot of times that involves not pissing people off. LQ isn't doing that.

So now that all the reasons for your scumread are obviously false, you gonna keep your vote?

Ofc you are, scumbucket.

Your overblown reaction makes me think you are butt hurt Scum.

This.

Because Rask, he's not just misusing meta or misreading, he isn't even TRYING to get it right. He might be bad every game but he at least tries as town.

As LQ said, this is a meta read...

You can't seriously expect me to sit here and get lied about and then accept that the player who is knowingly lying about me, then sitting back taking shots at my reactions, is a town slot.

Wouldn't him being terrible actually decrease your read-certainty because it's more realistic he'd use bad logic as town? Can you eli5 whats making the difference from LQ badscum to badtown?

I don't know the context enough to know if your reaction is actually reasonable or overblown here but if you can, instead of talking AT him (which realistically is futile if he is scum) summarise why he's scum instead of town misusing meta?

Was just thinking this myself, like they both went in 110% really angry at each other and its SUPER hard for me to believe that scum does that, they just don't need to make such a reckless and fullthrottle commitment over a single vote, this just screams town V town to me which is pretty tragic and I think it also explains (other than people just not wanting to read it) why neither party wants to back down. Like scum normally doesn't react like this to a single vote, no one really reacts like this to a single vote and its because this is an engagement furled by emotion that I just feel that its just indicative of town V town.

Eh, you might be right but I just think there's an element of caught-for-the-wrong reasons even though he would already be pissed as town. There's no reason to continue to go on about how bad the other player is when the argument is already over, as town. Plus rb's thought process in this whole situation makes no sense as town.

If I had no scumgames of you elsewhere, you'd still be scum.

And what's your reasoning for that?

Also 859 is not a post someone makes when they're this sure someone else is scum.

[Infinity 324]

Answer at least this. How did you change your opinion on LQ's play as town based on a game where you think he's scum?

[Infinity 324]

And yet you still think i'm town and never said you changed your read on me.

No wonder I'm confused about why you scumread LQ because you keep changing your story. Why do you scumread LQ based on his play this game?

It's kinda hard to believe that you looked at other games which changed your opinion on LQ but didn't mention them until now...

[Infinity 324]

Wtf are you on about Infinity?

I saw LQ's games like 1-2 months ago and saw he was lynchbait. I played a game with him recently where he was the very first lynch of the game. I called him lynchbait in the thread here, then he scumreads me because he thinks I should be "smarter" than to think he's lynchbait, when I actually have no reason to think he's anything BUT lynchbait in the majority of his games.

I don't think you're scum because you called LQ lynchbait. I think you're scum because you said LQ should be lynched d1 regardless of alignment, and that assessment changed over the course of this game. Then when questioned on it the third time, you say it's because you read some other games he was in.

Among other reasons...

[Infinity 324]

Nothing has changed Infinity holy shit.

That's fine, and I'm not replacing.

LQ is like Titus. Regardless of alignment, they should be speedlynched Day1 if town wants to win.

Again, if you actually believed this your vote would have been on LQ from the start of the game.

No.

I've realised it DURING this game.

[Infinity 324]

So of course it looks like I'm "making shit up" or whatever, because you've never seen the history of interactions. That's my ENTIRE fucking point. He's making up literal fucking bullshit and throwing shade constantly as if all my opinions are unfounded or something when the reality is I have very good reasons to see him as lynchbait and say as such. And that's like his ENTIRE case, that I'm scum because I called him lynchbait and also somehow that I'm buddying him even though I called him lynchbait and said he was probably scum?

Lmfao. Are you seriously gonna fkn align your vote with that shitness?

I never said I liked the original case, and just because there are bad reasons for someone to be scum doesn't mean there aren't good ones.

[Infinity 324]

I guess I'm just making things worse, so I'll just stop here. I pm'ed the mod, dropping the subject for a while.

I feel bad for you LQ.

[Infinity 324]

Except none of it is fucking Ad Hom.

rb, if you seriously believe that everything you've said to LQ this game was acceptable, I don't know what to say.

[Infinity 324]

Fire, hiplop, who's your other scumbuddy?

[Infinity 324]

Infinity you shouldn't read rb's behaviour here as anything alignment indicative
He does this quality control thing quite often on the other forum I know him on (It's a normal forum, not related to mafia). he sometimes gets aggressive when the opposite side does not concede, which is kinda ironic because an aggressive approach will naturally provoke defensiveness so shit gets drawn out and aggression escalates

That's not even my main issue that this point, it's that rb's opinion on LQ isn't consistent. He went from not caring about LQ's alignment and wanting him lynched anyway, implying that LQ might be town, to being 100% sure LQ is scum. He also said he realized during this game, that LQ should be lynched d1 regardless of alignment, but how is that possible unless he knows LQ's alignment this game?

Just not a genuine thought progression.

[Infinity 324]

Fire, hiplop, who's your other scumbuddy?

Oh wow...a filler question
Don't you have anything more constructive to ask?

Shh let me do my thing

[Infinity 324]

Emotions can make do crazy things, but changing opinions every few minutes while keeping the same emotion is not one of those things.

867 is really scummy to me in itself, because it shows rb realized his bias but was actively letting it change his opinion. Given his apparently incredibly low opinion of LQ, I might expect him to chalk it up to LQ being LQ, especially given he realizes the personal issue are biasing him. Instead, he seems absolutely convinced that LQ is scum nonetheless.

It also is really weird with 859.

The fact that he refused to replace out when he was apparently so offended by this, looks to me like he thought he could get an extra mislynch for his team as opposed to actually being as offended as he was.

[Infinity 324]

By the way, if someone comes up for an explanation for why LQ slot could be scum if rb is town, and didn't do anything to try to appease rb, I'm all ears.

It also doesn't make too much sense if they're scumbuddies, but still more likely imo.

So I'm pretty sure LQ is town in any case.

[Infinity 324]

I think you're scum anyway, this could easily be chainsaw defense of IPS and on top of that I want your shit metareads out of my life.

LQ is 100% scum I can basically guarantee it

Oh and also we get to lynch scum D1 so that's nice too.

So now that all the reasons for your scumread are obviously false, you gonna keep your vote?

Ofc you are, scumbucket.

Because Rask, he's not just misusing meta or misreading, he isn't even TRYING to get it right. He might be bad every game but he at least tries as town.

etc.

[Infinity 324]

By the way, if someone comes up for an explanation for why LQ slot could be scum if rb is town, and didn't do anything to try to appease rb, I'm all ears.

It also doesn't make too much sense if they're scumbuddies, but still more likely imo.

So I'm pretty sure LQ is town in any case.

What do you think about this reasoning?

I actually thought ari says how much he loved a case on him looked fake.

I need to read over the kts walls again, they looked town to me at first.

I support a DGB lynch.

[Infinity 324]

Oh come on...at least try to play the game...

[Infinity 324]

Then replace out...it sucks that we have to get so many replacements, but you have to play the game or replace out. Otherwise you're playing against your wincon and hurting the rest of town in the process.

PEdit: what naomi said.

[Infinity 324]

Try to explain them the best you can, and ask people question that will help you get better reads on them. A lot of people think you're town, it's far from guaranteed you'll get mislynched so just do your best to play the game.

[Infinity 324]

Please get your vote off yourself, that isn't helping anyone except scum.

[Infinity 324]

@jarjar: wrt LQ, I guess we just weight the interactions with rb differently? Cause I have LQ as strong town after that. It doesn't make sense not to back down or try and appease someone that's trying to policy lynch you, as scum. Note that LQ maintained that rb was in the wrong there, that's just a really bad idea for scum in his position.

[Infinity 324]

Well rb wasn't really consistent, that's the main reason I think he's scum tbh. In some of his posts, he claimed to be convinced LQ was scum, others implied he wasn't sure and just wanted to lynch LQ anyway.

[Infinity 324]

But then he went back to saying he was sure LQ was scum. Not something I can see from town, even if they got very emotional.

[Infinity 324]

If he was actually town and went back and forth, he would've stated his change in opinion. Not maintain that he had the same opinion all along even though his posts implied otherwise.

[Infinity 324]

I agree with that at least, I suppose we'll have to look at fire as well but I have a hard time seeing rb's actions from a town perspective, even very emotional town.

[Infinity 324]

I agree with you, as scum however I would've expected you to back down to save your skin.

[Infinity 324]

-_-

Catchup posts into nothing, seriously kts?

JoaT is probably the most powerful role we can have in this setup, although not by much.

Still would like a DGB lynch more

Still need to reread the catchups, they looked town to me

[Infinity 324]

Fire, did you take into consideration the fact that there are probably more power roles than usual in this game, and the fact that JoaT isn't

that

much better than a different power role?

[Infinity 324]

KTS is trolling at this point, it's easy to call it caught scum but I'm not so sure.

I did read a MD thread recently by him where he said if you aren't contributing to town at all, then there's no point in playing, so...

[Infinity 324]

Is that a hammer?

Ughh

[Infinity 324]

If this flips town I'm gonna be mad at both kts and maria

[Infinity 324]

You hammered a potential town power role, you at least should've given it some time...

[Infinity 324]

Fingers crossed.

[Infinity 324]

kts if you are town you better give some actual content, you aren't even at L-1 so there's no excuse.

[Infinity 324]

We could still let him live until d3

I don't want to throw out the possibility he's town here and just being lazy and trolly af

[Infinity 324]

Fire, did you take into consideration the fact that there are probably more power roles than usual in this game, and the fact that JoaT isn't

that

much better than a different power role?

No and your scummy for suggesting this

Notice my opinion on the subject.

I suggested it because I wanted to see your thought process, you're not giving me much...

[Infinity 324]

Your points make sense rask, but I'm still not getting why you're so confident he's trolling scum and not trolling town.

I'd wait to see what he says first, and if it's not super towny, we can lynch him then.

[Infinity 324]

Personally, I would wait longer to discuss things, but I think this has a good chance of flipping scum so I'm not gonna stop you.

[Infinity 324]

Is anyone townreading DGB?

[Infinity 324]

This game is just uuuugh

[Infinity 324]

@rask: I reread the kts walls, what read progressions in particular did you have an issue with?

[Infinity 324]

For future reference, please under no circumstances lynch { naomi + mariaR + infinity }. Have other strong townreads but these are the ones who probably aren't good enough as scum to get this townread if that makes sense (no offense infinity :v).

Pretty certain this flips scum, and given that, DGB as well but I'm actually second guessing aristo/hip plus the rb townread especially since LQ's better now and FA was whatever. In general unsure of likely thirdscum and some of the weaker townreads.

If it flips town I still wouldn't doubt naomi/maria/infinity but I'd look into a more experienced scumteam getting misread.

Yeah this is good, I'm also confident in LQ-town after the rb interactions.

Given how many people want to lynch kts though, I'm feeling like there's some bussing going on. I'd be very surprised if everyone who's on the wagon and stated intent to hammer were all town.

That assumes kts is scum, which I'm not willing to do yet, but w/e

[Infinity 324]

This conversation is getting nowhere...

[Infinity 324]

If he is scum you are 100% too i hope people will realize that.

I hope this flips scum so i can read you town and ignore you for the rest of the game.

??

[Infinity 324]

Hmm

Explain why a kts townflip would make naomi town.

[Infinity 324]

It's true that scum!naomi wouldn't want to get a trolling townie replaced.

But I think that scum often make a big deal out of defending town than their own partners usually.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that's true.

I also think naomi is town if kts flips scum because she drew a ton of attention to herself trying to defend him.

[Infinity 324]

Ok. I want to look for people pushing kts who weren't drawing attention to themselves and/or off the wagon. I don't think scum would make a big deal over trying to lynch someone only to have them flip PR.

-Manuel gave intent when intent was already given-- slightly towny
-Maria thought she was hammering early/generally drew attention to herself by voting and unvoting-- towny
-JarJar hammered and also voted and unvoted a bunch of times-- towny
-Rask made solid points against kts when he was already going down-- towny
-Slandaar was the first vote on the wagon and pushed it decently hard (though before the PR claim)-- towny
-hiplop voted kts because their predecessor did, and wasn't there for the claim and lynch-- meh
-fire tried to defend kts and called me scummy for bringing up points against them. Wasn't there for the lynch-- meh lean scum
-LQ voted after rask made the case, didn't do much else-- scummy (though I still have him as solidly town after rb interactions)
-DGB hopped on the wagon then disappeared-- scummy
-kraska unvoted and wanted to wait a day or two after the claim-- meh lean scum

(to be fair I would be on the scummy side of this list but still)

VOTE: DGB

[Infinity 324]

DGB is using her goofiness as an excuse to do nothing, slandaar says (and I agree from my limited experience with her) that she usually tries to do stuff as town

[Infinity 324]

The hiplop is supposed to be a "scummy" not "meh"

[Infinity 324]

I don't think rask would've pushed so hard for the lynch of a town PR that was already doomed as scum.

[Infinity 324]

fire's townslip

?

[Infinity 324]

I don't see a reason to lynch KTS if what he says is true, Scum have to nk him or he has to out his "results" if he is scum.
Basically not a good lynch target today even if he is annoying.

This post is pretty shitty. Obviously "if what [KTS] says is true" there's be no reason to lynch him. If what he he says is true then he's town.

It feels like FA wrote this post knowing KTS was town.

The fact that he just disappeared and just let the lynch go through doesn't look good either.

Yeah that's a good point, honestly a lot of people did that

But basically this makes me more confident in my scumreads of fire, hiplop, and DGB

[Infinity 324]

Is this seriously what I think it is

[Infinity 324]

How is that scummy?

I like to try to pressure replacements right when they replace in

[Infinity 324]

That isn't pressure.

It was an attempt, not a very good one I admit

How is that scummy?

I like to try to pressure replacements right when they replace in

you didn't do anything to me (not that I recall)

Usually I only do it for my scumreads

You say your scumreads are still me and hiplop nextday, so you think 2 people who are scum replaced out at same time.
Right....

Why not

[Infinity 324]

And hiplop even in your reads list is a "Meh" read.

How in the hell are you confident at all about hiplop being on a scumteam with me when you don't even have much to say about hiplop?

First of all that's not a reads list. That's an analysis of people's behavior wrt the kts wagon. Second of all hiplop should be listed as scummy there.

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Aristo- Probably the weakest of these, I liked rask's case in 320 and didn't buy that aristo's read on naomi changed that much in strength when I questioned him on it. Looks suspicious that hiplop voted kts and wasn't around for the claim/lynch.
Fire - rb's read progression and anger relating to LQ didn't look genuine to me. Fire attacking me for making points against kts and then disappearing is kinda sus.
DGB - Pretending to be trolling town but she usually actually does stuff as town and she's pretty much done nothing. Also voted kts and wasn't around for the claim/lynch.

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Fire's push on me looks like town due to recent developments though

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I'll be able to talk about that soon. I can't see why he would be so aggressive against me as scum here.

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I think he's talking about the actions around the bw on KTS and not overall play as in you can do scummy things on that bw but still be town I think you're chasing a deadend.

Not how its presented, even so.
He says he is confident that the team is Hiplop, DGB, and me.
I see no actual reasoning for Hiplop being scum
I think he mentioned me and LQ being scummy in our interactins, which I have no idea, cause I haven't read them.

No idea why DGB is scum either.

I mean I had my vote on aristo (hiplop's predecessor) for a while there...

DGB you may have a point but I mentioned finding her scummy before as well. I got your slot-scum and LQ-town from the interactions

Not trying to call scumteams yet, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the people who were scummy yesterday also acted sketchy around the kts wagon

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Thank you.

I'm a night two JOAT.

And I might do something later, but I'm worn out.

JOAT aren't limited by nights. That isn't a role.

All non-Vanilla roles hold the modifier "Night 2". Other modifiers may exist in the game (in conjunction with "Night 2") if applicable.

How the hell did this pass normal review?
This isn't normal.

All this tells us is that Assassin didn't know about the day two thing. It does not mean that he is Town for sure. Its Townie, yes, but not enough for a lock, far from a lock actually.

Omfg you still miss it
Nvm

I don't get it either. lol

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I think he's talking about the actions around the bw on KTS and not overall play as in you can do scummy things on that bw but still be town I think you're chasing a deadend.

Not how its presented, even so.
He says he is confident that the team is Hiplop, DGB, and me.
I see no actual reasoning for Hiplop being scum
I think he mentioned me and LQ being scummy in our interactins, which I have no idea, cause I haven't read them.

No idea why DGB is scum either.

I mean I had my vote on aristo (hiplop's predecessor) for a while there...

DGB you may have a point but I mentioned finding her scummy before as well. I got your slot-scum and LQ-town from the interactions

Not trying to call scumteams yet, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the people who were scummy yesterday also acted sketchy around the kts wagon

I don't think that last sentences adds up if people were acting scummy around the KTS wagon...wouldn't scum want to hammer him or am i missing something

Scum would want to be on the wagon, but not try to draw a lot of attention to themselves. Hammering a town PR would be pretty ballsy, I think scum were either on the wagon and not hammering or maybe off the wagon.

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I don't think occam's razor applies here

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Occam's razor = the theory with the fewest assumptions is the most likely. I don't see how that theory makes more assumptions about any other theory as to where scum were on the wagon.

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Occam's razor = the theory with the fewest assumptions is the most likely. I don't see how that theory makes more assumptions about any other theory as to where scum were on the wagon.

about --> than*

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I think rb is town

Liquety & Slandaar are scum but rb says LQ is lynchbait so mmmmm

And yeah Aristo is scum too

I like Jarjar, I'm not buying the fake townslip reaction test either LOL

I also like Manuel - I don't like NaomiTan's case on him, it feels like scum making up shit

Right now I'm considering voting either Aristo or Slandaar

I'll iso and decide

^^ the most scumhunting DGB did this game

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"face value play" = "ballsy scum play" ?

It's just a general thing I've noticed, scum don't really want to draw attention to themselves. It may be the correct play in some cases, but a lot of times they're scared to.

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LAMIST isn't a scumtell

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Jarjar was the one that hammered. See 1351.

Also I think the acronym you're looking for is WIFOM.

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It's common to look for scum in the middle of the wagon when doing VCA, but that doesn't stop scum from changing. Scum generally try to blend in because they're scared that people will catch them if they stick out.

PEdit: @Maria you may be right.

I'm not saying being on the wagon is towny, I'm saying the hammerer specifically is more likely to be town than not. Of course depends on the player, etc but that's my experience in general.

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It's based on my experience playing and reading mafia games.

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^^ town

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It really depends on how you think the town will scumhunt. If I didn't know I would try to stay in the middle of the wagon.

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I think scum WOULDN'T make a big deal out of wanting to lynch the town PR

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It's very difficult to play mafia without using generalizations about how town and scum usually play. Also, I think a lot of what fueled my analysis is the fact that KTS was evidently doomed. Scum didn't have to push the wagon, or even vote it, to get it to go through-- doing so would probably just make them look worse.

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That's what I've been saying all along

Ok there was the argument about hammers but that wasn't my main point

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It really depends on how you think the town will scumhunt. If I didn't know I would try to stay in the middle of the wagon.

I'm saying all things being equal. If you are Scum and you have a chance to hammer a pretty strong PR, I say you take that shot. Reason being is that you are guaranteed to get rid of a PR and you are not even close to guaranteed to have that Scum lynched.

P-Edit: I'm not making a big deal out of anything. I coming up with a hypothetical on what would be the correct play to make at that point in time. Theory talk is NAI.

I disagree in general, and especially in this specific case. There's no need to hammer when the PR is going to get lynched anyway.

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Uh

That has to do with a game that's about to end.

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Rask - probtown
kraska - lean town
DGB - scum
hiplop - likely scum
Slandaar - need to look at this again
fire - talk to me later about this
jarjar - I'm thinking possible scum here (ironic for how much I argued about hammerer being town); I remember seeing more towntells from him in a game I played with him before where he was town. Need to ISO him again.
LQ - town
Manuel - lean town
Maria - probtown

Too many townreads here.

So if scum isn't in {DGB, hiplop, jarjar, slandaar} then I would look into kraska and manuel I guess

What do you think rask

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Ok

LQ is town for the rb interactions, scum in that position probably would've been scared and tried to appease rb. Scumbuddies...just seems unlikely.

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Why did the way that post just said what everyone else said look towny to me

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-_- Come on DGB

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Try to put in some effort ok?

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Anything in particular you found bad/you want me to explain more? Why do you think it's scummy that my reasoning is bad?

What do you think about DGB?

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VOTE: hiplop

I have a hard time believing "fire explained it well" when he was just confbiasing and pointing out every slightest thing I didn't explain properly.

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Fire's case is that:

-I overexplained people's interactions with kts (fine, whatever)
-My list of interactions with kts was inconsistent with my scumreads-- but that's not the only thing I'm going off of
-I didn't explain my scumreads enough-- I eventually did and I didn't feel the need to before

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Who else do you scumread

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Why did you point out maria's vote but ignore mine?

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So Hilop would be dead Null for me if it wasn't for rb, but I can't overlook rb here. Still going to say lean Scum/Scum.

hiplop replaced ari

fire replaced rb

What's up vedith

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DGB you were begging us to lynch you in hunger games maf lol

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DGB what is the point of this exercise?

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And with that I'm pretty sure hiplop joins LQ in my scum pool but the answer he gives will be interesting

what
why

I disliked his last page can you claim please I'm thinking about putting you at L-2 again

I'm a 1-shot watcher

Only works on a specific night

Can't tell if this is a slip or just playing dumb cause we all know what this night is

She probably just forgot, it's NAI anyway

Watcher claim is enough reason to leave her alive for a day imo. Watcher is a super powerful role. If she doesn't get a result and she doesn't give us a reason to make us think she's town by tomorrow, we can lynch her then. Thoughts?

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I can see what you mean. But think about it, there are so many ways DGB can be confirmed as town or scum based on her results, or catch scum. (Remember scum probably don't have a watcher/tracker cause that would be useless)

I brought up the possibility of leaving kts alive to d3 too.

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DGB, what's your read on hiplop slot?

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Also I think it's very likely a setup like this would have exactly 1 tracker/watcher, so we can see if someone counterclaims.

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So when he fulfills that promise you'll townread him?

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tbh I think massclaim d3 is optimal

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Cause it gives scum an extra day to prepare their claims?

I guess you're right but it shouldn't be a big deal

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I ISOd jarjar, and he still looks town to me. His pushes on LQ and maria look organic and look like he's attacking players that look scummy to him as opposed to him finding reasons to call people scum. Also I found this:

I will reread Naomi cause I may have been a little lazy rereading her ISO since she's been a top townread for so long.

I reread and still townread Naomi.

which is a common town sentiment and something scum wouldn't really have a reason to post.

PEdit: fair enough

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Slandaar could be scum, my gut says he's town but picking on small things and not explaining reads in depth is a pretty convenient playstyle for scum.

I keep getting lynched everywhere lately

It has made playing mafia super boring

You were not lynched here
You were also not lynched here

I haven't bothered to look at any other games because there isn't much point other than to show you are greatly exaggerating you probably were lynched once or twice. If we look at this game and compare the two to here there is a difference in how you have played. Is it because you're scum? I think so yes.

You haven't posted anything of worth here at all. I can normally tell when you're town but I really don't think you are here. I suspected you way before I started pushing you yesterday to give you every chance to convince me otherwise but you didn't.

If you're not scum I suggest you go back and answer the questions I directed at you. You should probably just do that as scum too.

This feels towny to me though.

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Why did you point out maria's vote but ignore mine?

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-All PRs are night 2
-kts was a PR that trolled and got lynched d1--some valuable interactions here
-DGB is scamming it up and doing nothing, she claimed n2 watcher

Not much else...