James Brafin's mini normal review, August 2018
Forum rules
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
Found em. So basically this is James' concept so if he wants to hop in and tell me to stop quackin' rule to his preferences..... the original draft was~
Town
Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Tracker
Prime-Night vigilante
X Vanilla
Scum
Ninja
Backup Ninja/Roleblocker
Roleblocker
@irchy I suggested the same thing you suggested-- full Ninja + full RB is scumsided. the non multitasking ninja rb forces scum to kinda shoot in the dark as to whether they want to avoid presumed investigation or reduce town powah.
because of the prevalence of ninjas in the original setup I suggested town tracker was technically negative utility in context as a mid strength town investigative which I think is right. it's kinda more balanced considering the ninja may or may not ninja. besides, trackers don't reeaaalllyyyyy get clears in normals unless you're absolutely sure there isn't a ninja.... so I'm kinda comfortable with the singletasking ninja/rb vs. tracker mechanic.
(also I Recommended the split of vengeful and tracker into two TPRs. if you want some commentary around this I'm happy to throw it in)
the prime number vig was basically there to avoid n1 shots which is why I suggested the novice vig. an even night would do the same thing but weaken town a little (and decrease swing slightlyyyyy), tho I feel like James didn't want even night off the top of my head
I like weak babysitter in a general sense because I'm not a fan of non WIFOMy / investigative roles I think it's kinda ok having a meh investigative balance wise but I think it's changeable--fmpov it's just a neat role, and doesn't contribute much to the 'theme'.
so my suggestion was
=== TOWN ===
Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Townie
Town Tracker
Novice Vigilante
5-6 Vanilla?
=== SCUM ===
Ninja Roleblocker
Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Goon
James came up with the idea of a loud mafia doctor. I think it adds a bit of flair to how to scumteam works but is kinda strange unless the vig can shoot quite a lot.
but it also creates an interesting avenue for gambit play. it's definitely a fairly strong role.
and yes, agreed for sure that loud goes thru on kill attempts.
Town
Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Tracker
Prime-Night vigilante
X Vanilla
Scum
Ninja
Backup Ninja/Roleblocker
Roleblocker
@irchy I suggested the same thing you suggested-- full Ninja + full RB is scumsided. the non multitasking ninja rb forces scum to kinda shoot in the dark as to whether they want to avoid presumed investigation or reduce town powah.
because of the prevalence of ninjas in the original setup I suggested town tracker was technically negative utility in context as a mid strength town investigative which I think is right. it's kinda more balanced considering the ninja may or may not ninja. besides, trackers don't reeaaalllyyyyy get clears in normals unless you're absolutely sure there isn't a ninja.... so I'm kinda comfortable with the singletasking ninja/rb vs. tracker mechanic.
(also I Recommended the split of vengeful and tracker into two TPRs. if you want some commentary around this I'm happy to throw it in)
the prime number vig was basically there to avoid n1 shots which is why I suggested the novice vig. an even night would do the same thing but weaken town a little (and decrease swing slightlyyyyy), tho I feel like James didn't want even night off the top of my head
I like weak babysitter in a general sense because I'm not a fan of non WIFOMy / investigative roles I think it's kinda ok having a meh investigative balance wise but I think it's changeable--fmpov it's just a neat role, and doesn't contribute much to the 'theme'.
so my suggestion was
=== TOWN ===
Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Townie
Town Tracker
Novice Vigilante
5-6 Vanilla?
=== SCUM ===
Ninja Roleblocker
Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Goon
James came up with the idea of a loud mafia doctor. I think it adds a bit of flair to how to scumteam works but is kinda strange unless the vig can shoot quite a lot.
but it also creates an interesting avenue for gambit play. it's definitely a fairly strong role.
and yes, agreed for sure that loud goes thru on kill attempts.
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
sure that's fair. I like the ninja rb a lot better than ninja + RB but ungated mafia roleblockers are god tier.In post 13, Something_Smart wrote:True, I forgot about the multitasking rule since I don't really like it at all.
RB is still way too strong though, and now it's also swingy since it loses most of its strength if it's the only maf alive-- unless tracker is still alive in which case it is either still weak or a godfather.
any suggestions on how we could knock this down a peg? I think there's enough shenanigans that a mafia manipulative role isn't too out of place, but maybe something less powerful?
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
o ye a couple of questions wrt normalcy
James suggested full day talk over an encrypted (basically a 'they have it or they don't' approach, so no daytalk would be fine too).. any thoughts on this?
also: we're thinking of modding this from a hydra account for comodding and mutual accountability. would this be ok or should we just comod from our own accounts? (lmk if I should throw this to implo)
James suggested full day talk over an encrypted (basically a 'they have it or they don't' approach, so no daytalk would be fine too).. any thoughts on this?
also: we're thinking of modding this from a hydra account for comodding and mutual accountability. would this be ok or should we just comod from our own accounts? (lmk if I should throw this to implo)
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
James' original thoughts were a prime number night vig, and yeah basically to limit the number of deaths n1 (there is a small margin for catastrophe with a full ungated vig). I suggested the novice vig because I think it's a cleaner and probably slightly more balanced way to pull this off--though it's both balanced and swing.
@Ircher, I'd be on board for a 3 shot roleblocking activated ninja. let's see what James/SS say but I actually think that strengthens the intent of the role by not having them just spam RB for the lols.
@Ircher, I'd be on board for a 3 shot roleblocking activated ninja. let's see what James/SS say but I actually think that strengthens the intent of the role by not having them just spam RB for the lols.
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
I'd personally have no issue throwing in a motion detector and changing the tracker to a watcher. having a higher number of less powerful inveetigatives > having a single powerful investigative imo (I hate the idea of great play being derailed by one random action - results should be earned dammit! lol)
(p.s. I'll always listen to you even if you're the secondary reviewer because your setups are great)
(p.s. I'll always listen to you even if you're the secondary reviewer because your setups are great)
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
Town
Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Townie
Novice vigilante
Watcher
Motion detector
5 Vanilla
Scum
Ninja 2-shot roleblocker
2-shot loud Doctor
Goon
+ full predisclosed daytalk
Feels stacked but both teams are stacked and the prs aren't face meltingly powerful. definitely swing but I think stinginess is inherent in the concept of the setup
how does everyone feel about this?
Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Townie
Novice vigilante
Watcher
Motion detector
5 Vanilla
Scum
Ninja 2-shot roleblocker
2-shot loud Doctor
Goon
+ full predisclosed daytalk
Feels stacked but both teams are stacked and the prs aren't face meltingly powerful. definitely swing but I think stinginess is inherent in the concept of the setup
how does everyone feel about this?
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
good point there.
though the weak can't produce a true guilty--only innos or presumed guilties(still strong tho!)
the dynamic of watcher + motion detector is pretty interesting, I actually like this a lot better than one full medium-to-strong TPR.
Town
Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Townie
Novice Vigilante
Non-Consecutive Night Watcher
Motion Detector
5 Vanilla
Scum
2-shot Ninja Roleblocker
2-shot Loud Doctor
Goon
+ full predisclosed daytalk
though the weak can't produce a true guilty--only innos or presumed guilties(still strong tho!)
the dynamic of watcher + motion detector is pretty interesting, I actually like this a lot better than one full medium-to-strong TPR.
Town
Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Townie
Novice Vigilante
Non-Consecutive Night Watcher
Motion Detector
5 Vanilla
Scum
2-shot Ninja Roleblocker
2-shot Loud Doctor
Goon
+ full predisclosed daytalk
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
fmpov the intention is to nerf both the ungated ninja and the ungated roleblocker suggested in the original setup by forcing them to either make the factional kill unseeable, OR perform a roleblocking action.In post 34, Something_Smart wrote:What did you INTEND for the ninja roleblocker to be able to do? Hopefully we can work out the correct name from there.
Ircher is dead right in saying that the ninja modifier is passive and therefore makes the RB ninja'd as well... imo the increase in utility from having the roleblock being unseeable is okay in the realms of this setup's balance. gating the number of roleblocks and keeping them as non-multitasking is far more important for balance I think.
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
I was thinking a 2 shot roleblocker with full passive modifier (I think it's needlessly confusing otherwise).
we could do some kind of JOAT with 2 shots of each if you reckon that'd be better? in that case I'd probably make it clear that ninja isn't a **modifier** but rather an ability.
also wouldn't mind James having a read and letting us know if this still fits in with what he's thinking of.. I reckon we'll be okay tho.
we could do some kind of JOAT with 2 shots of each if you reckon that'd be better? in that case I'd probably make it clear that ninja isn't a **modifier** but rather an ability.
also wouldn't mind James having a read and letting us know if this still fits in with what he's thinking of.. I reckon we'll be okay tho.
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
huh just looking at the wiki
this doesn't sound rightRoles which are explicitly Normal for Serial Killer only include:
Serial Killer, Ninja, Strongman, any roles listed as "for any alignment"
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
ahaIn post 48, James Brafin wrote:Hold up
I’m thinking under this assumption:
1) Weak Babysitter targets scum
2) Babysitter dies
3) Because Babysitter dies, their target dies, which is the scum.
Is this not right?
this is correct, but also
1) weak babysitter visits town
2) weak babysitter is shot
3) weak babysitter & target are shot
which means if their soft is ambiguous as to who they targeted, they may produce a false guilty
you may wanna use weak visitor
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
here we go, geared towards clarity on roles more than anything else so if i've stuffed up anything from a normalcy pov pls sing out
also went for a stylistic choice of breaking up abilities and modifiers since we're using a fair few and i think it's clearer...
also went for a stylistic choice of breaking up abilities and modifiers since we're using a fair few and i think it's clearer...
teh town
Spoiler: town visitor
Spoiler: vengeful townie
Spoiler: novice vigilante
Spoiler: non-consecutive night watcher
Spoiler: town motion detector
Spoiler: vanilla townie
teh muffiah
Spoiler: 2-shot ninja roleblocker
Spoiler: 2-shot loud doctor
Spoiler: mafia goon
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
teh town
Spoiler: town visitor
Spoiler: vengeful townie
Spoiler: novice vigilante
Spoiler: non-consecutive night watcher
Spoiler: town motion detector
Spoiler: vanilla townie
teh muffiah
Spoiler: 2-shot ninja roleblocker
Spoiler: 2-shot loud doctor
Spoiler: mafia goon
note:
the op of the thread must specify that scum have daychat.
the op of the scum pt should include a friendly reminder that nobody can kill and use an ability on the same night.
the op of the thread must specify that scum have daychat.
the op of the scum pt should include a friendly reminder that nobody can kill and use an ability on the same night.
- the worst
- the worst
-
the worst
- Snuggly Duckling
- Snuggly Duckling
- Posts: 34628
- Joined: November 7, 2015
- Location: pond
I'm all about Oxford commas my dude.
ok all groovy as long as James is happy! quoting for pagetop:
ok all groovy as long as James is happy! quoting for pagetop:
In post 73, the worst wrote:teh town
Spoiler: town visitor
Spoiler: vengeful townie
Spoiler: novice vigilante
Spoiler: non-consecutive night watcher
Spoiler: town motion detector
Spoiler: vanilla townie
teh muffiah
Spoiler: 2-shot ninja roleblocker
Spoiler: 2-shot loud doctor
Spoiler: mafia goon
note:
the op of the thread must specify that scum have daychat.
the op of the scum pt should include a friendly reminder that nobody can kill and use an ability on the same night.