Mini 2072: Timeshift Mafia IV [GAME OVER]

[mastina]

I have come from the FUTURE. I'm a time traveler that was shifted into the past, here to inform you:
If you don't follow me and this vote, in the future, WE LOSE.
VOTE: Mephistophanes 39

[mastina]

In THE FUTURE, at THE END, everything was so BLEAK and dreary that colors were all FADING, muted and dim.

If you want to AVOID that fate, TRUST me and vote Mephistophanes.

[mastina]

Such a missed opportunity for a Terminator reference.

Ignoring the sequels, in the ORIGINAL Terminator, at the END in the FUTURE, the GOOD guys WON. Skynet tried to CHANGE the PAST because of it.
It would thus be wildly inappropriate a reference as my presence here is meant to be for the OPPOSITE.

[mastina]

how do we know you're telling the truth about the future mastina?

Though the risk of a PARADOX prevents me from telling you everything, I can share LITTLE details of the FUTURE.

Among them I can tell you the N2 NK was a HYDRA. I should not inform you of which.

[mastina]

Mastina went too far into the future and got to the end of everything and that's only fun in Sci-fi!

You have things BACKWARDS.

I didn't travel TO the FUTURE and then RETURN.

I am FROM the FUTURE and went BACK, to CHANGE HISTORY.

[mastina]

After carefully reviewing the Mephistophanes 39 wagon, I've determined that it's nonsense.

I can tell you that ORIGINALLY, there was no Mephistophanes wagon D1, a fact we later ended up REGRETTING.

I can also inform you that PAST me thought it was a little odd that in a game centered around time, that Mephistophanes didn't reference the LAST TIME they encountered me...but instead of pursuing that line of thought, I stupidly went after S_S not realizing he was TOWN.

[mastina]

Mastina are you town?

You asked me this the FIRST time, but it didn't make a difference. I'll answer the same as I did ORIGINALLY, that yes I am, and can tell you that last time you ended up hard-tunneling a TOWN player if it helps.

[mastina]

@mastina: Was RadiantCowbells ever at L-1 in the FUTURE?
-TL

RADIANTCOWBELLS? At L-1?

You don't NEED to be from the FUTURE to tell that never happens.

[mastina]

How are we to know how not to repeat our mistakes (other than by wagonning mephistophanes) if you cannot divulge further details?

As long as I LIVE, I can continue to HELP.

If I DIE, then already the FUTURE has CHANGED for the BETTER.

[mastina]

Can you reveal who the scum were in the FUTURE?

I must CONFESS, I do not KNOW all of the SCUM.

Remember, WE LOST.

That means that in MYLO, we MISLYNCHED.

I was SENT BACK before the RESULTS, because I'd have DIED if I stayed any longer.

[mastina]

I guess we're destined to repeat the mistakes of the FUTURE, if mastina cannot tell us the scum we originally failed to kill

I have TOLD you to pursue Mephistophanes.

Is that not ENOUGH?

[mastina]

I don't know what to say tho. This game is so jokey atm I'm actually at a loss.

You don't think there's anything to comment on? (๑•﹏•)⋆* ⁑⋆*
~A

THIS would be WHY we need to WAGON Mephistophanes.

TRUST ME.

[mastina]

~Nancy head

I can also TELL you that ORIGINALLY, just like THIS time, Mephistophanes's posts were left ambiguous as to whether they were Nancy or Aristophanes, aside from rare instances such as this one. All of posts like 51, 59, 60, 83, 84, 108, 109, 115, 119, 120, and 151, we NEVER learned if they were Nancy or Aristophanes because they never clarified even though this was something which should've been ALIGNMENT-INDICATIVE. I deeply REGRETTED not asking them to clarify this, especially given that in the LAST GAME we played together there was no such doubt as to who was posting when. In THAT GAME I knew that Ari was Ari and Nancy was Nancy but HERE I was left uncertain.

Since the Mephistophanes wagon never happened ORIGINALLY on D1, I would be VERY interested in hearing the thoughts of BOTH heads today on the wagon on them.

[mastina]

I can also TELL you that ORIGINALLY I thought that IF Ari was indeed the one posting that we weren't seriously contributing anything, that it was odd he didn't give MORE because he tends to THRIVE in shitposting environments.

My SUSPICION that he was AVERSE to this I didn't act on D1--and I PROMISE you it's something we later REGRETTED.

[mastina]

Here is a piece of info for you: I do, indeed, possess a killing ability.
Make of that what you will.

I was hoping that THIS TIME through, this piece of information would not be revealed. Alas.

UNVOTE: Mephistophanes
I owe an explanation; I chose my words here carefully.
ORIGINALLY, Mephistophanes was the D3 mislynch, out of paranoia. This lynch was spearheaded by me, and was my largest REGRET. It was a QUICKLYNCH, because Mephistophanes had failed to obvtown in those three days, and lingering suspicions had grown on them.

My attempt to wagon them THIS TIME was meant as a way of kickstarting their obvtown status.
Since the future has CHANGED as a result of this, I'm not CERTAIN I succeeded...but it LOOKS like I have.

They are TOWN, and I hope the towncred generated today is enough to last the game.

I have more information to SHARE from THE FUTURE, but I need to PLAN CAREFULLY now that this type of deception has been exposed.

[mastina]

So you're telling me Mastina is

not

from the future?????????????????????????

It was a NATURAL consequence. I claimed to be from THE FUTURE, and claimed we needed to wagon Mephistophanes.

Mephistophanes knew they were town, and thus naturally CONCLUDED that I could not be from the future, because if I were, I'd have KNOWN they were town. However, my push on them was a DECEPTION, meant to induce a REACTION. This REACTION gives proof of their town status that was ORIGINALLY absent.

[mastina]

Hmm, after reviewing what is the SAME and what has CHANGED, with my knowledge of THE FUTURE, I feel it's SAFE to do THIS now:
VOTE: light_ganskti

[mastina]

To recap the REVEALED knowledge of THE FUTURE:
Mephistophanes was the D3 mislynch; they are TOWN.
A hydra was the N2 nightkill; they are obviously TOWN.
Yahmose CLAIMED a KILLING ability ORIGINALLY.
Something_Smart is TOWN.
ORIGINALLY, RC ended up HARD-TUNNELED on a TOWN player at SOME POINT in the game.
And NOW, light_ganski is the BEST place to go.

[mastina]

(We also LOST in MYLO, but this is not KNOWLEDGE that is tied to a PLAYER, unlike all the above.)

[mastina]

mastina I think it's cool what you are doing
but I'm not sure it's gonna help

That makes two of us. But I have to TRY! For a BETTER FUTURE.

[mastina]

why is her vote more alignment indicative that her tone?

Because my VOTES contain KNOWLEDGE from THE FUTURE, whereas my tone is something that would exist REGARDLESS.

[mastina]

I wouldn't say mephistophanes gets a great deal of towncred from your push on them. So, beyond trolling, what was the point of it?

You are disagreeing with the TIME TRAVELER. I might not know what will happen NOW after having CHANGED how things ORIGINALLY went, but having an idea of what ORIGINALLY happened gave me an idea of what needed to be DIFFERENT.

Mephistophanes is spewed town whereas ORIGINALLY they were not.

This may not clear them THIS TIME, but it will with luck avert their ORIGINAL fate.

[mastina]

I honestly don’t know what to make of Mastina now. I still have ptsd over MBoS. :/

In spite of me being town, if THIS TIME things go even remotely the same, TRUST me; you'll only end up feeling WORSE.

My townplay's more traumatizing than any scumgame ever could be. And TRUST me; that NEVER CHANGES.

[mastina]

Mastina
reveal to me my destiny
thanks

It's NOT a PLEASANT one.
(You DESERVED better.)

[mastina]

While Mephistophanes 39 was scum in the FUTURE before it changed, light_ganski is just scummy.

Mephistophanes was NEVER scum in THE FUTURE.

However, they were MISLYNCHED on SUSPICION of being scum D3.

I fully SUPPORT a wagon on light_ganski.

[mastina]

why did I request to replace in?

I never really COULD figure it out ORIGINALLY.

[mastina]

Does everyone hate fun? Is that what leads us to this dark FUTURE timeline?????

Actually, in large part? YES.

ORIGINALLY, I was PARTIALLY to blame for it.

[mastina]

And mastina, if you want me to replace out of this game, just request it any time in the game, I will not be insulted/take offense to it at all.

Of the two in the mastina-Firebringer duo, I am NOT the one who replaces out because of the OTHER. Not ORIGINALLY and not THIS TIME either.

[mastina]

this game is moving slow
will we ever reach page 37?

YES.

[mastina]

that's me asking u if u want me to replace out, I will.

And as I said ORIGINALLY, I have no problem playing with you.

[mastina]

I know from my knowledge of THE FUTURE that if I failed to post tonight, I would eat a prod.
However, just as with ORIGINALLY, I basically have a date with my girlfriend.
I thought that THIS TIME I could squeeze in all of my mafiascum errands in, in spite of having FAILED to do it LAST TIME.
I was perhaps too optimistic of how much I had CHANGED.

As such I shall return TOMORROW to respond properly to the thread.

[mastina]

It would also help if the people who have strong opinions could summarize them along with some easy-to-check reasoning so we don't have to keep digging through fluff looking for content.

I can TELL you that THE FUTURE has CHANGED...but not for the BETTER.

My push on light_ganski was meant to SAVE him from the fate of being NIGHTKILLED. ORIGINALLY, it happened LATER.

By mislynching Mephistophanes EARLIER, it seems he too had his life claimed EARLIER.

I would advise people HEED my WARNINGS about THE FUTURE.

[mastina]

This post heavily implies Mephistophanes 39 is scum in the FUTURE.

You are WRONG. It STATED that we needed to WAGON, not LYNCH Mephistophanes. This was to make them OBVTOWN. I THOUGHT I had succeeded.

If that wasn't enough, this post is explicit confirmation that Mephistophanes 39 is scum in the FUTURE.

I said to PURSUE Mephistophanes. I did not say to LYNCH them.

This post indicates that the FUTURE has CHANGED, so while Mephistophanes was scum in the FUTURE, now they are town in the FUTURE.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how TIME TRAVEL works.

When you TIME TRAVEL, the FATE of players can CHANGE. Mephistophanes ORIGINALLY died D3, and light_ganski similarly perished N3. The ALIGNMENT of players CANNOT CHANGE. They were ALWAYS TOWN.

Since we are in DIRE STRAIGHTS now, I can reveal that the ORIGINAL mylo that we LOST was D4. TTTT, THE N2 HYDRA NIGHTKILLED, the RadiantCowbells slot (Fuscosco), and Something_Smart are all TOWN.

I DO NOT KNOW the alignments of THE OTHER HYDRA, Rainbow Reads, Rightodude, Rosterfoster, the Firebringer slot, or Yahmose.

I can tell you that ORIGINALLY, I HARD PUSHED for the lynch of the FIREBRINGER slot because I SUSPECTED ceejay and CONTINUED to suspect Firebringer, but in spite of MY PUSH, he NEVER ended up LYNCHED.

VOTE: Firebringer

[mastina]

(ORIGINALLY, light_ganski CLAIMED to SAVE his INVESTIGATION from a MISLYNCH. They LIVED to see mylo. The OTHERS were NOT so FORTUNATE.)

[mastina]

VOTE: mephistophanes 39
this is scum. no strong stance on who the other scum are but this is always scum.

By the way, ORIGINALLY, this was in fact who RC TUNNELED.

[mastina]

Was it RC who drove my D3 mislynch in whatever alternative reality you were referencing?

It was actually BOTH of us WORKING TOGETHER, but YES.

[mastina]

I should also mention: again, while I DO NOT KNOW who ANY of the SCUM are because WE LOST IN MYLO, I SUSPECTED that the scumteam was Firebringer, rightodude, and Rainbow Reads, with an outside chance of the NON-NIGHTKILLED HYDRA.

People didn't listen.

[mastina]

I am glad Mastina really came back from THE FUTURE to save us, I was worried it was a joke but this game is going to be so much easier now.

It would've been if people had LISTENED to me.

But the TOWN ignored me, and via the light_ganski shot, I SUSPECT the SCUM ignored me too.

[mastina]

Mastina as your are from THE FUTURE did you know LG's role?

YES.

He claimed D3 to save HIS INVESTIGATION from being LYNCHED.

This spurred the QUICKLYNCH on Mephistophanes.

[mastina]

And if you were scum with this KNOWLEDGE, would you KILL him?

I PUSHED him YESTERDAY.

If I were scum, I would not PUSH someone I planned to NIGHTKILL.
(PARTICULARLY given that OTHERS suspected him, and PARTICULARLY given there are BETTER nightkills in the game.)

No, I am TOWN.

[mastina]

i am a back up cop.

You CLAIMED this ORIGINALLY...after light_ganski outed his innocent.

I STILL don't believe it.

[mastina]

it would be awfully convenient to have all three scum pushing me: Mastina, Ank, Time Devil. Probably wrong about at least one. Scum don't mass rush me they side push me sometimes but not like this.

I am probably paranoid.

I would like to say that ORIGINALLY, I made a long post about Firebringer where I explained my feelings on him in great depth.

There was much to say about it and I would like to emphasize this because it is relevant THIS TIME just as much as it was ORIGINALLY.

ORIGINALLY I had it in a spoiler, marked as not game relevant, but I later deemed it to be game relevant as it is here, THIS TIME.

Basically, I consider Firebringer to be among the top 10% of mastina readers. He is in the top 10% of scummers as being able to read me. As scum, I love to portray his votes on me as being part of his grudge, to shade him as having no legitimate reason to scumread me--but that is ALWAYS a LIE because as much as scumastina shits on him, he can, genuinely, legitimately, read me correctly a good, solid 90% of the time...and the 10% or so of the times he reads me wrong, it's reading scumastina as annoying town.

He is basically FLAWLESS at reading town-mastina correctly as town.

More than that, I consider him AT LEAST = rand in terms of scumhunting other players, if not BETTER than rand. Automatically, this places him in the top 35% of scumhunters on site, because players on site are shit at scumhunting. He's not paragon levels of good, but he is someone whose skills I legitimately, genuinely respect.

ORIGINALLY, I went into far more detail than that, detailing stuff like how much of a shitty person I am and also how if I hadn't fucked things up (I was the one who started the grudge match; long story short--again I ORIGINALLY went into this in more detail--I was an ass, and I was unapologetic about being an ass, to him so I absolutely deserve it), if I hadn't been a toxic asshole who ruined our interactions, we could've ended up as friends believe it or not (or, at the very least,

I

would call HIM a friend, in the same way I call people like Alisae friends), but the IMPORTANT details are what I outlined just now.

As town I would EXPECT Firebringer to have a correct read on me, because he doesn't read me WRONG.
But he is pushing me as SCUM, when this is absolutely NOT my scumplay and he KNOWS it isn't.

I was convinced ceejayvinoya was scum ORIGINALLY. When Firebringer replaced in, that did not CHANGE. It grew STRONGER with his serious play.

Again, ORIGINALLY, I went into more detail, even outlining that I recognize I have no ability to read him (which is the one thing I find annoying; not his constant never-ending grudge, not his antics in games, but simply a shortcoming on my end; I find him annoying only because I can't read him), and that in spite of him having told me how to read him at some point I failed to remember what he said on the subject.

But I found his fairly serious posts to be SUSPECT. And his claim of backup cop to be BULLSHIT.

[mastina]

She is obsfucating herself under this gimmick she has made even more than she usually does with her normal game behavior.

I OPENED today by REVEALING about HALF the game to be TOWN.

That is as FAR away from obfuscation as is POSSIBLE.

I have ADMITTED that I DO NOT have KNOWLEDGE of who the SCUM are, but I have STATED who my SUSPICIONS were. I SUSPECT you, rightodude (people WROTE HIM OFF as being Low-Hanging-Fruit, but I think he's just NEWBSCUM), and Rainbow Reads, with an outside chance of the NON-NIGHTKILLED HYDRA.

By PROXY, this tells you that I am townreading Rosterfoster and Yahmose, whose identity in THE FUTURE is revealed. (I know who Yahmose is as a consequence, but this is knowledge from THE FUTURE I don't want to divulge because outing an alt is a dick move.)

My REASONS I have also given, except in cases where doing so would be ANTI-TOWN.

or she is just scum hiding behind all that.

YOU of all people KNOW that scumastina DOES NOT HIDE BEHIND SHIT.

Firebringer if he were town would KNOW that this is me as town.

[mastina]

VOTE: Time Devil

I KNOW that pointing this out will do me NO favors, because I tried ORIGINALLY and it didn't help, but I would like to state that one of the things I found and STILL find SUSPECT about Firebringer was his "oh it was a reaction test"-like attitude. On D1, he did this to Something_Smart and I DID NOT buy it back then, and NOW he has done it to me NOW.

I am AWARE that he's not LITERALLY saying "oh it was a reaction test" here, but the SENTIMENT is similar. He is being super-SERIOUS, and actually being a TRYHARD, with posts that are deliberately ENGAGING specific PLAYERS. In a game where most of the FLUFF-POSTERS ended up being TOWN, I pushed that as INCREDIBLY SUSPECT.

[mastina]

are u guys seriously gonna lynch the back up cop? Today? Really? before I get results?

I want to.
However, I recognize there is a much better play to make:

VOTE: rightodude.
No knowledge of THE FUTURE necessary to see why the slot's SCUM.

[mastina]

A lot of the sketchy slots are on the Mephistophanes lynchwagon; most likely two of these are scum since they're all also really clustered together right in the middle-end of the wagon.

Why can't it be all three?

If it helps on the ORIGINAL Mephistophanes mislynch it WASN'T all of those names.

Scum are also likely trying to coast throughout the game based on the general activity of the game and how little attention people have been getting for their amount of activity, and it's relatively low risk to help RC push through his wagon partially because the wagon composition is normally fairly low information when it's RC-led, and partially because there's more risk in outright disobeying RC and potentially drawing his ire (and attention, which the gamestate is helping them avoid).

Nobody fits the description of "trying to coast" better than rightodude. Close second, Rainbow Reads. The others on the wagon have done content, which I admit does include even Firebringer.

so TTTT is the only slot left that has good odds of flipping scum outside of the wagon.

And WHEN he DOESN'T, what then? TRUST ME, this is a MISTAKE.

[mastina]

ftr I scumread rightodude more than TTTT atm but I don't think a rightodude scumflip really helps town

NORMALLY, I would agree with you, on information > scumflip. But ORIGINALLY, we lost in large part due to that mindset. So THIS TIME, let's not repeat the MISTAKES we made and instead focus on LYNCHING SCUM.

[mastina]

Mephistophanes 39 [L-4]

Mastina, Time Devil, Yahmose

Rightodude [L-2]

Rosterfoster, TTTT, Ceejayvinoya, Latrodectus, Light_Ganski

Rightodude [L-3]

Rosterfoster, TTTT, Firebringer, Rainbow Reads

Latrodectus, ORIGINALLY, I failed to ask you this: What do you make of the D1 wagon on rightodude, as you--like me--see him as suspect?

Did you come to the same conclusion I did?

(My conclusion has NOT CHANGED from scum having THOUGHT that he was obvscum and bussing him, with both buddies present on the wagon at least at

some

point in time.)

[mastina]

you saying Mephistophanes was always town seems like you're trying to cover up your mistakes

There are no MISTAKES on MY end, but on YOUR end there are. My posts were UNAMBIGUOUS in NOT being EXPLICIT. I NEVER once SAID Mephistophanes was scum. Every time, I SAID to VOTE them; I never SAID to LYNCH them.

I also SAID when UNVOTING them in the VERY POST you thought was a contradiction THIS VERY THING.

[mastina]

Apologies for my absence. As a TIME TRAVELER, I usually have most interest in subjects which affect THE FUTURE, and what to CHANGE. However, as of late, not much of what has been discussed involves THE FUTURE beyond what I already TOLD.

I guess I'll need to partake in some of my ORIGINAL posting as well, even if I'm feeling a LITTLE depressed and don't FEEL like PLAYING.

ftr I scumread rightodude more than TTTT atm but I don't think a rightodude scumflip really helps town

NORMALLY, I would agree with you, on information > scumflip. But ORIGINALLY, we lost in large part due to that mindset. So THIS TIME, let's not repeat the MISTAKES we made and instead focus on LYNCHING SCUM.

um
what
TTTT is my second strongest scumread

But rightodude is your strongest. Lynching strongest scumread, in this case, > lynching a scumread that'd give more info.

[mastina]

but the other thing it also shows is that if scum have any PRs, it's probably not on rightodude.

Though I LACK confirmation of SCUM PR INFORMATION, I can tell you that what I SUSPECTED was they had none, owing to the timeshift mechanic being inherently SCUMSIDED.

Then again, I am a POORLY-VERSED TIME TRAVELER; I did NOT do my RESEARCH before being flung BACK from THE FUTURE.

[mastina]

she bullshits everyone in private chats. you should see the private chats I had with her when she tried to make "amends" with me.

Oh I do bullshit everyone, but not in private chats. The more intimate the conversation, the more open and honest it gets, usually. Now, granted. I do a fair amount of self-delusion, so I bullshit unintentionally by virtue of lying to myself, but as soon as I do the right kind of introspection, the self-reflecting reveals "oh, that was one of the things I was being delusional about, wasn't it?".

Also ORIGINALLY I did go into that in more detail, about the thoughts I had on you.
Already talked about it a little THIS TIME, but STILL not as much as ORIGINALLY.

Spoiler: Just like ORIGINALLY, going to spoiler it

I ORIGINALLY worded this with a description of you.
You're somewhat entertaining, and while your viewpoints frequently conflict with mine in many ways, engaging in debates over them is entertaining.
That kind of relationship is not inherently a bad one--quite the opposite, it takes a lot to turn that sort of positive engagement into toxicity and yet somehow I managed the feat.
You're a skilled player, remarkably adept at reading me but with reasonable skills at reading others, too, and while you can even in games I'm not a part of on occasions be toxic, USUALLY, your attitude is a net benefit of games with the unique signature style blend of serious posting and more lighthearted shitposting.

I know I was the one to wrong you, and I wronged you

badly

.
I know I was unapologetic about it and at every turn

continued

to be unapologetic about it and

still

am unapologetic.
I was the one who started the grudge match, I was the one who began it, and I made no effort to stop it and in fact took actions which ensured it'd have happened.
I was unsympathetic, I showed zero empathy, I didn't really bother to treat you like a person.
All of this makes me a genuinely shitty person, but the real shittiness comes from this.

I vaguely recall all of the above being true, but honestly?

I don't remember it.

I have the vague sensation that everything I said above is true, that what I just described really did happen, that all of it transpired as I described.

The awareness of the actions is more or less there.

But I just...honestly don't remember them.

I forget a lot of things I shouldn't.

And there was a time where not remembering deeply

hurting

a person would horrify me.

Deeply wounding someone, leaving a permanent negative mark on their personality, one which you and you alone are solely responsible for...and then after all of that...not REMEMBERING having done it?

That you did such a shitty thing and you legitimately, genuinely, can't even recall having done it?

Knowing you did wrong but not knowing what the wrong was because you just can't remember

what

you did?

It's horrifying, it's terrifying, it's shitty, so obviously, any reasonably empathetic person would be

mortified

at having forgotten how they wronged someone to the extent where such a strong ill will festered for so long.

For the longest time period, I felt that way, and yet.

At some point.

I just...stopped caring.

I stopped caring that you hate me.
I stopped caring about the grudge.
I stopped paying attention to it.
I stopped really thinking about it, honestly.
I stopped caring about how I didn't remember what I did wrong.

I objectively know that having stopped caring about not remember doing a shitty thing is by far a worse shitty thing.
But I can't find myself caring about that.

I still do genuinely regret it.
But I stopped trying to fix it.
I stopped trying to propagate it.
I stopped just about everything about it.

And just kinda...made peace with it and myself about it, as much peace as there could be.
I did something shitty to you.
I don't remember doing the shitty thing to you.
I don't care that I don't remember doing the shitty thing to you anymore, itself even more of a shitty thing.
I've given up on making amends, itself a shitty thing to do.

But my regret is mostly from a combination of knowing what happened, happened and can never be undone, and also that even though I've moved on, you haven't.

As much as is possible, I made peace with having inner demons, of being a shitty person, and kinda just...moved on with my life.
Even though I know you haven't, because you wouldn't still act this way at me if you had.
Like I said. My annoyance towards you isn't in your treatment of me. I just sigh at it, accept it as what it is. My annoyance is only in not being able to read you, which is not an annoyance unique to you.

There's just...in a sense, nothing special about you to me, nothing different in my treatment of you than my treatment of anyone else. Not anymore. There used to be, at the various stages. The initial uniquely shitty treatment. The propagation of the grudge. The repeated attempts to make amends. But I just...no longer see the point.

There's a regret at what I ruined, a potential for friendship that will never ever manifest for justifiable reasons but which could've theoretically been there had I not fucked things up between us. But that's not even special anymore because that's how I feel about all scummers who I have interactions with that end up with friction even heat.

So, shitty as it may be for me to have moved on in spite of me having been the one to have done the initial wrong.
I've just...moved on with my life.

[mastina]

Oh I forgot to include this which I did ORIGINALLY.

Spoiler: Still not game relevant, still spoilering

One of the reasons I typed this out ORIGINALLY was due to the ban announcement due to harassment.

I always had mixed feelings there.

Basically.

The harassment is justified.
Firebringer has every right to harass me.
I started it, I wronged him first, I didn't care I wronged him, I continued to wrong him, so why

wouldn't

he have the right to harass me?

Of course he has the right to.

Some people might think that harassment is harassment but in this case the harassment has such a strong justification that I don't really mind harassment in of itself.
Heck, in many cases, I'd put airquotes around 'harassment' as it'd not even really be worth calling harassment. The point is, he has a right to it and it is deserved given the wrongs I did to him in the past along with me not really caring about the wrongs in the past.

Plus, it's always a reasonable reality check to have his harassment as it is a fresh reminder of my less pleasant sides. I am prone to self-delusion, and he's a nice wakeup call to remind me that I am

not

as nice, that I am

not

as good, as I'd otherwise pretend to be. He's a perfect reminder of how much of a shitty person I am, and he can only do that

while

"harassing" me.

Of course.

There are lines which can be crossed.
"Hey, that's not an okay thing to post".
Him having harassment privileges on me, more or less, doesn't mean he can just say

anything

if it relates to trash-talking me; there are boundaries.
Crossing them is Not Okay, not even for someone who has free reign to harass me.

But these boundaries are usually fairly self-evident.
Given the sensitive nature of the subject, though--this is a hornet's nest we're not just poking but basically pelting with rocks--that's probably the most which should be said on the subject at this time.

[mastina]

that means this game has a 3 shot cop, a back up cop, and a vigi.
What the hell is this kind of power doing in this game?

A good question and one which makes me doubt YOUR claim.
It is plausible given the scumsided nature of TIMESHIFTING.
But were it not true, the vigilante is NOT the slot I would DOUBT.

[mastina]

Mastina and her style are kind of alien to me.

I ASSURE you that THIS style is a result of TIME TRAVEL. ORIGINALLY, my style was far more NORMAL, but I have CHANGED it due to my knowledge from THE FUTURE.

[mastina]

Joe needed a doctor,

I can provide for that

I claim 2-shot doctor

No knowledge of THE FUTURE necessary to tell this is BULLSHIT.

[mastina]

although now I would prefer rainbow reads over righto if I had to switch

I would join you there if you did!

[mastina]

VOTE: Rainbow Reads
Knowledge of THE FUTURE isn't truly useful right now, but I don't need it to KNOW this is the right place to GO.

[mastina]

Mastina do you KNOW the flip from the FUTURE?

ORIGINALLY, rightodude was not lynched, so no, knowledge of THE FUTURE helps not.

[mastina]

There's no way righto was town.
I believe that Rainbow is town, but I'm not saying Rainbow is green checked.
Firebringer might be scum, but I'm not voting him because his check seems good.
VOTE: TTTT
I really don't like your vote on Rainbow. Please give me a case on why you think/thought Rainbow is scummy.
-TL

:thonk:

[mastina]

ohh wait it says my cop shot disregards timeshifts. I should read more.

Why is it that your claimed role of universal backup inherits the role, but without its restrictions? I find this INCREDIBLY hard to believe.

[mastina]

also mastina if u vote town all game I am gonna lynch u regardless if I think ur town. I don't need u helping the scum around here.

Then you don't need me doing this.
VOTE: Firebringer

[mastina]

Okay get death tunneled then:
VOTE: mastina
U have only yourself to blame for this mastina

Correct, but this is the obvious play.
The only reason I took my vote off of you yesterday was because I acknowledged that there were three scum and that it was possible to hunt for two of them first before going after you, in which time you would have to claim a target and then claim results--at which point I'd lynch you once you got your result.

You got your result a day earlier than I expected, but the logic still holds up.

You have claimed an incredibly hard to believe PR. Claiming backup cop, backpedaling that to a universal backup, and then claiming that you didn't inherit light_ganski's restrictions in spite of inheriting his role.
And then you claim an innocent on one of my strongest scumreads.
When your slot has been a scumread of mine the entire game; I thought ceejay was scum and I've thought your entire approach this entire game has been 100% your scumgame. (With the caveat that I know I can't read you yes but that doesn't change the base read.)

There's no reason for me to not lynch you today and verify your claim/result because if Rainbow Reads is in fact town the game's broken open.

[mastina]

By the way, how's mastina alive and it's day 3?

Take a look at the deaths we've had during the night.
Take a look at your claim.

Notice something about the deaths during the night?

There's your answer.

Only way I could've died is via lynch, and I knew from my knowledge of THE FUTURE that wasn't destined to happen yet.

[mastina]

Hi. A tldr would be very much appreciated. I'll try to do a catch up ASAP, nut it should help if I know of any claims or major/special incidents that happened.

A backup cop claimed a guilty on you so we're lynching you unless you've got an answer for why they got the result they did.

[mastina]

Did firebringer say that they had an inno on RR though?
I’m so confused by that. Are you sure it’s a guilty on Mastina?

The slot's bullshitting. This is what Firebringer said of his claim:

i am a back up cop.

...Which he modified to include:

also i want to report that i am aware of when time shifts happen that is byproduct of my role, so all of mastinas shenanigans that is mixed with role play is complete bs. nothing has happened time-wise.

...And that is contradicted by his confusion here:

not that much given its 3 shot.
unless its delayed by 2-3 days.
Which frankly shouldn't we have a full role pm to know when the results would have been given?
The mod hasn't even told me when I am supposed to get results for my back up shots now.

Why isn't yahmoose action not timeshifted btw? Shouldn't most abilities in this game be time-shifted and why isn't her vig a timeshift?

...Which is ultimately not as relevant as him changing his claim here:

btw my back up role doesn't apply to cop. it applies to any timeshift roles that are town and have shots remaining.
So there are more timeshift roles in this game.

I don't know if i believe that non timeshift vig role exists when theres probably at least 2-3 more timeshift roles in this game.

He changed from "backup cop" to "backup of timeshifted roles".

And yet in spite of being a claimed backup of timeshifted roles...he changed his claim AGAIN today, when...

I checked rainbow reads last night.
Rainbow is town.

One small question. If he's a backup cop, he wasn't able to use his ability until N2. How does he have a result already?

I don't honestly know why either tbh.

I got "your target is town". so in theory it could have been from lights time shift but I never heard of a role being used like that.

just that I got lights cop shots.

ohh wait it says my cop shot disregards timeshifts. I should read more.

And you had 3 or 2?

id rather not say.

(^This one's not a contradiction, but IS bullshit.)

Then we get Eyes coming in today.

Hi. A tldr would be very much appreciated. I'll try to do a catch up ASAP, nut it should help if I know of any claims or major/special incidents that happened.

Also how long till deadline?

Thank you

UNVOTE:

Why did I include that timestamp?
Because Eyes implied here that he was getting ready to catch up on the game.

This gave me the idea for my reaction test:

Hi. A tldr would be very much appreciated. I'll try to do a catch up ASAP, nut it should help if I know of any claims or major/special incidents that happened.

A backup cop claimed a guilty on you so we're lynching you unless you've got an answer for why they got the result they did.

This was ten minutes later.

Eyes should have still been around at that time.

However.

It took Eyes

seven hours

to come back with this:

Hi. A tldr would be very much appreciated. I'll try to do a catch up ASAP, nut it should help if I know of any claims or major/special incidents that happened.

A backup cop claimed a guilty on you so we're lynching you unless you've got an answer for why they got the result they did.

Funny, cuz I'm the backup cop and I've got a guilty on you.
VOTE: mastina

Why do I think this change is particularly damning?

Because Firebringer at multiple times in his iso referenced checking me/tunneling me/wanting to turbo-lynch me and I fully believe that in the scum PT Firebringer would've left a comment along the lines of "I want to fake a guilty on mastina".
(Want me to track down the posts where he indicates this? Would take a little longer than this, but is doable.)

Eyes is scum, who replaced into a scum fakeclaim that he had no clue how to handle. Firebringer was contradictory at multiple times, so what his story would be would be hard for a replacement to pick up on.

[mastina]

I'm inclined to TR Eyes for the game-solvey readlists.

Let me show you game-solving from Eyes.

This is game solving from Eyes.
This is an even better example of game solving from Eyes.
Here's another example of game solving from Eyes.

Contrast.
Here's Eyes "gamesolving" as scum. And that was in multiball, which is more generous than singleball in allowing scum to scumhunt.
Here's Eyes's best gamesolving as scum.

The emptiness of Eyes's content here is because Eyes knows he's caught scum.

No reasons, just empty reads. Guess why there's no reasons? Because reasons give accountability and information that Eyes has no intention of giving.

[mastina]

I'm inclined to TR Eyes for the game-solvey readlists.

Let me show you game-solving from Eyes.

This is game solving from Eyes.
This is an even better example of game solving from Eyes.
Here's another example of game solving from Eyes.

Contrast.
Here's Eyes "gamesolving" as scum. And that was in multiball, which is more generous than singleball in allowing scum to scumhunt.
Here's Eyes's best gamesolving as scum.

The emptiness of Eyes's content here is because Eyes knows he's caught scum.

No reasons, just empty reads. Guess why there's no reasons? Because reasons give accountability and information that Eyes has no intention of giving.

Like, the difference is transparent.
Eyes as town gives reasons constantly. Check out all three of those towngames; in each, Eyes was giving reasons at almost every step of the way. There was some RVS silliness, but it was mostly good, solid content with backing. Stances, reasons, justifications.

Eyes as scum doesn't give much in the way of reasons at all. In both of Eyes's scumgames, Eyes was giving basically no reasons at every step. He voted, he was silly, but he didn't really push.

Compare:

VOTE: Emperor
Now that I know what the VC looks like I can start by voting the least posting slot.
Feel free to vote me cuz I know my slot is not doing much better.

Scumgame typical content. No real reason.

Are we really pushing people for making obvious jokes on page 1?

Why slow down the noose of progress? VOTE: Eyes without a face

^^Scum post/vote. Finding a reason to join a building wagon. Couldn't find anything but a rephrase of what 2 others already brought up.

VOTE: Eliot Ness

Waiting for the team to vote me for OMGUS.

Towngame typical content. Reasons that there are solid accountability for. Eyes has a transparent scum meta of half-assing reasons, contrasted heavily with a town meta of giving reasons at almost every turn.

Now tell me which of those patterns reflects Eyes in this game.

[mastina]

Geez. This isn't funny. I tried to do a catch up and a bunch of players appear to have been in the game and replaced out but the OP doesn't have the replacements marked. I guess I'll need to ISO the mod backwards in order to learn who was whom before I do the game read properly.

This is making excuses for not providing content.

Then do hammer me and prove my read wrong on you (which wouldn't be surprising sine I only played you as scum. I was scum with you once and scum against town you once, so to my recollection I have never really had to effort to read you)
My final reads:
Town: RR
Likely Town: SS, TTTT, Roster
Not Sure: TD, Inso, Titus
Scum lean: Fuscosco
Conf.Scum: Mastina

Appeal to fear with empty, unexplained reads.
If he doesn't have a result on Rainbow Reads,

why

is Rainbow Reads town?

Why

are Something_Smart, TTTT, and rosterfoster all town?

What

makes him unsure of TD, Insomnia, and Titus?

Update

Town: RR
Likely Town: SS, TTTT, Roster, Titus
Not Sure: Inso,
Scum lean: Fuscosco, TD,
Conf.Scum: Mastina

Titus moves up and TD moves down... still catching up until the thread is locked

Why

did Titus move up?

Why

did TD move down?

Rightodude [L-3] Rosterfoster, TTTT, Ceejayvinoya, Rainbow Reads Rosterfoster, TTTT, Ceejayvinoya, Rainbow Reads

This was an all-town wagon, regardless of Rightodude's flip.

Why

is it an all-town wagon?

Yeah, TTTT is obv!town
Fusco is ibv!Scum

What

makes TTTT be obvtown?

What

makes Fusco be obvscum?

Are we really pushing people for making obvious jokes on page 1?

Why slow down the noose of progress? VOTE: Eyes without a face

VOTE: Eliot Ness

In this towngame, Eyes immediately explained his scumread.

@Mod: I am wondering why the day is getting extended by 24 hrs with each replacement when we already have enough time left in it anyway. Theoretically this could lead to a never ending day under certain circumstances.

I didn't give an extension for the first replacement as I felt it was too early in the game at that point. These 2 replacements both resulted in extensions due to it being much later in the phase and, since I took so long to actually issue the prods to the 2 players that replaced out, I felt it necessary to extend the deadline so that the 2 new players would have the same amount of time to interact in the thread as they would've done had I issued prods at the correct time.

I like this. mutant can be town for now.

In this towngame, Eyes immediately explained his townread.

But there’s a very real possibility both were scum. Why did you initially assume Assassin was town in that scenario? Especially when you think you have it narrowed down to four.

This feels like scum caught for the wrong reasons and not finding a way to back off. I assumed one is scum and the other is town and thus didn't vote either because I couldn't tell which is which. I don't think they are both scum because there's no need Assassin to bus his only partner this early.

This is a

different

towngame where Eyes explains a scumread.

So, eyes, what 20 posts between 163 and 181 inspired someone slow to get reads to sort most of the playerlist?

Waiting
@Eyes

In short, Eragon happened. he entered the game and started doing his page by page analysis which helped me not only form a read on him but also on other slots. I had already voiced a slight town read on the slot due to the replace out which many -including Eragon himself- objected to, but Eragon's posts strengthened my town read there.

Invis was already a town lean too, but that was about it and I wan't going to declare a read list of exactly one slot.

Eragon helped me see CoA is probably town, and I had to ISO rooroo to realize her claim to be new is a meme and that was confirmed by people mentioning it's an alt account, so disregarding the meme effect I realized 79 was too string to come from scum and 156 was being stubborn which is a town trait since scum would prefer to go with the flow. Overall feeling of rooroo was adjusted so that was 4 slots sorted out of 8. Do you want me to explain how I came to the conclusion I'm town too?

In that same game, here he explained

all

of his reads pretty much, and how he got them.

Again.

Contrast those with this game.
And compare this game with stuff like this:

VOTE: Allo
Let's see where this goes

This is the extent of Eyes explaining reads as scum.

VOTE: Emperor
Now that I know what the VC looks like I can start by voting the least posting slot.
Feel free to vote me cuz I know my slot is not doing much better.

This is the extent of Eyes explaining reads as scum.

[mastina]

I'd like to also point out:

Did firebringer say that they had an inno on RR though?
I’m so confused by that. Are you sure it’s a guilty on Mastina?

The slot's bullshitting. This is what Firebringer said of his claim:

i am a back up cop.

...Which he modified to include:

also i want to report that i am aware of when time shifts happen that is byproduct of my role, so all of mastinas shenanigans that is mixed with role play is complete bs. nothing has happened time-wise.

...And that is contradicted by his confusion here:

not that much given its 3 shot.
unless its delayed by 2-3 days.
Which frankly shouldn't we have a full role pm to know when the results would have been given?
The mod hasn't even told me when I am supposed to get results for my back up shots now.

Why isn't yahmoose action not timeshifted btw? Shouldn't most abilities in this game be time-shifted and why isn't her vig a timeshift?

...Which is ultimately not as relevant as him changing his claim here:

btw my back up role doesn't apply to cop. it applies to any timeshift roles that are town and have shots remaining.
So there are more timeshift roles in this game.

I don't know if i believe that non timeshift vig role exists when theres probably at least 2-3 more timeshift roles in this game.

He changed from "backup cop" to "backup of timeshifted roles".

And yet in spite of being a claimed backup of timeshifted roles...he changed his claim AGAIN today, when...

I checked rainbow reads last night.
Rainbow is town.

One small question. If he's a backup cop, he wasn't able to use his ability until N2. How does he have a result already?

I don't honestly know why either tbh.

I got "your target is town". so in theory it could have been from lights time shift but I never heard of a role being used like that.

just that I got lights cop shots.

ohh wait it says my cop shot disregards timeshifts. I should read more.

And you had 3 or 2?

id rather not say.

(^This one's not a contradiction, but IS bullshit.)

Then we get Eyes coming in today.

Hi. A tldr would be very much appreciated. I'll try to do a catch up ASAP, nut it should help if I know of any claims or major/special incidents that happened.

Also how long till deadline?

Thank you

UNVOTE:

Why did I include that timestamp?
Because Eyes implied here that he was getting ready to catch up on the game.

This gave me the idea for my reaction test:

Hi. A tldr would be very much appreciated. I'll try to do a catch up ASAP, nut it should help if I know of any claims or major/special incidents that happened.

A backup cop claimed a guilty on you so we're lynching you unless you've got an answer for why they got the result they did.

This was ten minutes later.

Eyes should have still been around at that time.

However.

It took Eyes

seven hours

to come back with this:

Hi. A tldr would be very much appreciated. I'll try to do a catch up ASAP, nut it should help if I know of any claims or major/special incidents that happened.

A backup cop claimed a guilty on you so we're lynching you unless you've got an answer for why they got the result they did.

Funny, cuz I'm the backup cop and I've got a guilty on you.
VOTE: mastina

Why do I think this change is particularly damning?

Because Firebringer at multiple times in his iso referenced checking me/tunneling me/wanting to turbo-lynch me and I fully believe that in the scum PT Firebringer would've left a comment along the lines of "I want to fake a guilty on mastina".
(Want me to track down the posts where he indicates this? Would take a little longer than this, but is doable.)

Eyes is scum, who replaced into a scum fakeclaim that he had no clue how to handle. Firebringer was contradictory at multiple times, so what his story would be would be hard for a replacement to pick up on.

Firebringer's claim changed, but Eyes changed it even further:

Funny, cuz I'm the backup cop and I've got a guilty on you.
VOTE: mastina

Back to backup cop (Firebringer's original claim before he backpedaled to "timeshifted role backup"), but changing the result from an innocent to a guilty.

are your results time shifted?

Yes. It was a 1-shot actually.

Changing the claim from "two or three-shot" (what Firebringer said) to one-shot.

To avoid confusion: Time-shifted as in the very next morning, not delayed by a phase as normal actions would resolve in this game.

This contradicts Firebringer's 594 (Firebringer says he's aware of timeshifts, and Eyes claims that timeshifts are roles that DON'T have a delay), but more critically, SERIOUSLY contradicts 983.

Firebringer's claim was filled to the brim with holes, and Eye's claim

even further

contradicts

that

.

Furthermore.

Firebringer as town never fucking wastes a cop shot on me.
You know why? This is why:

if anyone asks me to cop check mastina or something like that i am going to tell them: no, and in fact if we don't lynch mastina, I won't even use my cop check just as a defiance to everyone involved who protects mastina here.
She is either scum. Good possibility.
Or she is hurting town with her constant stupid shenanigans.
So why don't we all join forces, lynch her, and I will check Time Devil now and we can go on about the game?

mastina is scum and I am burning her in a fire. if you don't want on that u do u.

This shows Firebringer's attitude towards me.
He would not investigate me.
He might fake an investigation on me to get me lynched.
But he wouldn't ACTUALLY investigate me.

He'd consider it a wasted fucking action.
Because he wouldn't want to clear me, because he wouldn't want to not lynch me if I turned up town, and because he can lynch me without a result telling him I'm scum.

Between those two. Not wanting me cleared when I turn up town (because if I'm cleared I don't get lynched and if I don't get lynched I'm in the game longer because scum almost never nightkill me even when I'm conftown), and being able to lynch me without a scum result.
He wouldn't waste an investigation on me.

And this is clear as fucking day to ANYONE who has so much as one IOTA of an idea what the history between us is.

[mastina]

Can we all note that Mastina's arguing that FB would not investigate her, and not that she the result he got was somehow manipulated with??

Yes well the thing about that is I fucking know Firebringer so I fucking know he wouldn't investigate me.

There's no point in arguing the result's wrong when the result is something that

never would have happened anyway

.

Also.

Ultimate weapon time.

Occam's Razor.

Which is the simpler explanation?

Firebringer, as town, backpedaled on his claim multiple times and made multiple contradictory claims, claims that continued to be contradicted by Eyes, who happened to "clarify" these claims with the 'truth' when said clarification in of itself further contradicts what Firebringer had said...

...Or, Firebringer was scum bullshitting, and Eyes continued the bullshit?

Good luck arguing your way past that, Eyes.

[mastina]

When I flip town you fucking lynch Eyes.
Then Rainbow Reads after that though honestly anyone on this shitty-ass horrible fucking wagon's a good candidate; roster and Something_Smart are conftown as far as you're concerned for having half a fucking brain.

[mastina]

Also Fuscocow too for that matter.

Lynch any of them and you fucking deserve to lose.

Well you fucking deserve to lose anyway for not fucking lynching the fucking fakeclaimer who was fucking obviously fakeclaiming because he was caught in a fucking lie, but more than normal if you fucking lynch off the wagon.

[mastina]

Oh so Eyes threw the game

yep

^

But also:

This setup feels really scumsided
I was expecting a decent chunk more power to offset what scum was given this game. Scum having the ability to just instantly lolkill two people in a single might is kinda gross

^This.
Without the timeshift, this setup would've still been a little scumsided.
With the timeshift, it goes from a little to TREMENDOUSLY scumsided.

[mastina]

I should have picked up on something smart. I thought he was way too docile to be town here but I couldn’t see it.

To be honest, I thought Something_Smart's play here was in stark contrast to his play in Undertale--that's where my original townread came from, because I thought he was scum in that game and thus must be town in this one.

Then he flipped town there--but by the time he did flip town there, I had tricked myself into thinking my original reasoning was wrong, that his play between the two games was actually similar enough that he'd be town here.

[mastina]

The timeshift mechanic is really poorly worded/understood that you might want to work on elaborating to make it more intuitive. If like 3 people have problems with it and you have run this game type several times you probably have issues on communicating it.

^This.