gobbledygook's Mini Normal Review, December 2019

[implosion]

Actually I have a different setup in mind.

=== Rules ===

Rules

Totally and completely stolen from PenguinePower who stole his rules shamelessly stolen from various moderators.

General Rules

1. All site rules apply here.
2. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (real or otherwise) of any kind
3. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.

If someone contacts you outside the game, report it to me IMMEDIATELY

4. This game will start with a Day phase
5. No ciphers, encryption, extremely small text, or other similar tactics.
6. If you have the ability to edit, refrain from doing so.
7. It's your responsibility to read and understand all of the rules.

Activity

1. Aim for one post every 48 hours at a minimum.
2. After 48 hours of no activity, I will prod the inactive player
3. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond to my prod with a

substantive post in game

, after which time a replacement search will begin. I abhor prodging.
4. A player who has been prodded 3 times will be subject to replacement with no further notice
5. If you plan on being inactive for more than 48 hours, PM the Mod to notify you plan on being V/LA.
6. If you plan to have regularly scheduled V/LA period (e.g. the weekend) please PM the mod to notify

Deadlines

1. Days will last 10 days
2. Nights will last 48 hours
3. Extensions may be given out in extreme circumstances and is up to the discretion of the Mod
4. If you have a role with a Night action, your action is due to the Mod by the posted deadline. If no action is received by the posted deadline, you may forfeit your action(s). Players with a Night action may submit a "No Action" PM to indicate to the Mod you do not wish to perform your action.

Player Rules/Voting

1. A simple majority of all living players must agree on one person (via voting) for a Lynch to occur (simple majority = ½ # of living players +1, rounded down). If no one has a simple majority of votes at deadline a No Lynch will occur.
2. Votes should use Vote Tags or they may not be counted

Code: Select all

[vote]Player[/vote]

. Use them.
3. Unvotes are helpful, but not required.
4. You may VOTE: No Lynch - a simple majority (as described above) of No Lynch votes will result in a No Lynch and a move to the Night phase.
5. Votes/Unvotes should be placed on a line all by themselves to make them easier for everyone to see, or they may not be counted. Do this.
6. Votes in quotes, spoiler tags or otherwise hidden will not be counted.
7. Votes that misspell or have other minor errors will be counted as normal as long as I understand what you are getting at.
8. Once a player has reached a simple majority of votes no further unvoting will change their fate. Tough.
9. When a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the Mod posts a death scene; all players may continue to post.
10. If you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. No "Bah" posts.

Misc Rules

1.

This

is my color. I don't like to share, so don't use it.
2. I'm perfect, but there may be an appearance of a mistake on occasion. This is intentional. Please PM me privately to address. I will correct any of these intentional mistakes where possible, but there may be situations that I cannot. Sorry. Be at peace knowing those were intentional as well.
3.

Bold all requests to the Mod so that I don't intentionally miss them.

4. Rule violations will be dealt with based upon severity at the sole discretion of the Mod or in conjuction with the relevant Listmod.
5. Any situation not specifically covered in the above Rules is subject to Mod discretion and will be handled as the Mod sees fit to address. Live with it.
6. Mafia have daychat

Spoiler: Sample Role PM

Vanilla Townie

You are a

Vanilla Townie

Abilities:

You have no abilities other than your voice and your vote.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

=== Setup ===

13 players

1 Ascetic Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Neighbor
1 Mafia Goon
vs
6 Vanilla Townies
1 Town Tracker
1 Even-Night Neapolitan Neighbor
1 Town Neighbor
1 Informed Townie (there is no roleblocker or jailkeeper in the game)


=== Role PMs ===

--- Mafia PMs ---
Ascetic Mafia Goon

Ascetic Mafia Goon

You are an

Ascetic Mafia Goon

Abilities:

Ascetic - Any action that targets you, other than a kill, will fail as if roleblocked.
Mafia Chat - You have access to the Mafia Chat located here.
Night-kill - Your team has a factional night-kill. Each night your team can designate one teammate to perform this kill.

Win condition:

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

Mafia Neighbor

Mafia Neighbor

You are a

Mafia Neighbor

Abilities:

Neighborhood - You are a member of a neighborhood located here.
Mafia Chat - You have access to the Mafia Chat located here.
Night-kill - Your team has a factional night-kill. Each night your team can designate one teammate to perform this kill.

Win condition:

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

Mafia Goon

Mafia Goon

You are a

Mafia Goon

Abilities:

Mafia Chat - You have access to the Mafia Chat located here.
Night-kill - Your team has a factional night-kill. Each night your team can designate one teammate to perform this kill.

Win condition:

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

--- Town PMs ---

Vanilla Townie

Vanilla Townie

You are a

Vanilla Townie

Abilities:

You have no abilities other than your voice and your vote.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

Tracker

Tracker

You are a

Tracker

Abilities:

Track - each night you may choose a player to track. If successful, you will learn who they targeted that night. Your results will be "Targeted [x player]", "went nowhere", or "no result."

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

Even-Night Neapolitan

Even-Night Neapolitan Neighbor

You are an

Even-Night Neapolitan Neighbor

Abilities:

Neapolitan - on even nights (night 2, night 4, etc), you may target a player to learn if they are a Vanilla Townie. If successful, you will learn if that player is a Vanilla Townie. Your results will be "[player x] is a Vanilla Townie", "[player x] is not a Vanilla Townie", or "no result."
Neighborhood - You are a member of a neighborhood located here.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

Neighbor

Neighbor

You are a

Neighbor

Abilities:

Neighborhood - You are a member of a neighborhood located here.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

Informed Townie

Informed Townie

You are an

Informed Townie

Abilities:

Informed - You know that neither a Roleblocker, nor a Jailkeeper is present in this game.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

[implosion]

Primary: schadd_
Secondary: PenguinPower

[gobbledygook]

Oh this is awkward when I stole PP’s rules

[PenguinPower]

Guess I have no problem with your rule set then!

[schadd_]

1 Ascetic Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Neighbor
1 Mafia Goon
vs
6 Vanilla Townies
1 Town Tracker
1 Even-Night Neapolitan Neighbor
1 Town Neighbor
1 Informed Townie (there is no roleblocker or jailkeeper in the game)

i would call this a little scumsided. ascetic is good against tracker, as the ascetic person can simply perpetrate the kill. i think the point of the informed townie is that there's the potential gotcha where the tracker (or, less likely, neapolitan) finds the ascetic and then the informed townie tells them: you weren't roleblocked that person is ascetic or something. i think that's a very small consideration - to begin with there is also possibility of rolestopper, alien and commuter; also it relies on everybody relevant surviving to a massclaim situation, and the ascetic not just immediately claiming ascetic which is a common thing

moreover if there is somebody informed "there are no roleblockers, rolestoppers, aliens, jailkeepers, commuters" and they see somebody claim ascetic it's possible they realize their role is supposed to catch out a mafia ascetic, and just claim a guilty on the mafia ascetic. or something

i would call the setup sort of scumsided without the mafia ascetic - generally in 10v3 with 3 goons (or 3 non-useful scum roles) you expect town to have the power of about 2 strong roles, so like, neapolitan and vigilante for instance. i'd say tracker is a slightly worse than strong role , as is a gated neapolitan. and then, i would describe the ascetic as power for mafia here, it's up to them whether they want to claim it and it is a pretty strong foil to the tracker. i don't think the inform is all that helpful for town as discussed, and neighbors don't generally provide power for either alignment to a significant degree (moreover: both of the neighbors are bad for the neapolitan)

i would call this balanced if, for instance, the town neighbor was a full vigilante in addition to neighbor

[gobbledygook]

So I’ve been meaning to ask, is it not standard to flip the full role pm of people who die? Some Normal mods flip the role pm, some just reveal the name of the role. I would think even if Informed Townie dies, it’s information could be used by the town, not just in mass claim.

[PenguinPower]

It would not be normal for the Informed Town to flip with their “informed” information.

In terms of flipping full role pm, I don’t think that’s necessary in normals games since there is consistency between each role type. That would be more important in Themed games. Of course, nothing is stopping you from doing it as long as you don’t out information you shouldn’t.

[gobbledygook]

So schad you’re suggesting making the other town neighbor a vigilante neighbor? Just so I have that clear

[implosion]

It would not be normal for the Informed Town to flip with their “informed” information.

In terms of flipping full role pm, I don’t think that’s necessary in normals games since there is consistency between each role type. That would be more important in Themed games. Of course, nothing is stopping you from doing it as long as you don’t out information you shouldn’t.

Just posting to say this is correct. Roles should never flip in a way that reveals any hidden information they had: obviously mafia shouldn't have their partners outed when they die, but also informed players should not have that information made public and neighbors should not have the other members of their neighborhood made public. Basically you can post a redacted role PM if you want, but it should reveal the same thing as if their role name had just been posted without a role PM.

[schadd_]

So schad you’re suggesting making the other town neighbor a vigilante neighbor? Just so I have that clear

sure! feel free to suggest any other change you'd like obviously

also i hope my issue with the inform is clear

[gobbledygook]

It is clear. I did intend it to be like a gotcha in the ascetic as the other PRs could not directly get a guilty on it. I will say that the only safe claim they could make is a commuter/ascetic. Role stopper and alien require another mafia to claim too which makes it dangerous to tie two scum up like that. I personally find ascetic and commuter to be scummy roles and if I was in their position would not claim anything.

So in this case should I just get rid of the informed all together and add the vigilante?

[schadd_]

Role stopper and alien require another mafia to claim too which makes it dangerous to tie two scum up like that. I personally find ascetic and commuter to be scummy roles and if I was in their position would not claim anything.

So in this case should I just get rid of the informed all together and add the vigilante?

re rolestopper / alien: there is always the possibility that one of those roles exists from scum that isn't claiming it but ascetic/commuter would probably be the safest claim yes

getting rid of informed & adding vig would be fine yeah.

[gobbledygook]

What’s the Lynch rate on informed townies? In minis, they seem like they’d essentially be IC.

———

I am ok switching the neighbor to vig and turning the unformed townie to a vanilla townie unless we want to switch the informed townie to vig and leave the other town neighbor alone?

I am a little worried about there being a full vig in a mini. My instinct is to make it 2 shot to get back to odds.

[schadd_]

i dunno! i think just "informed townie" isn't used very often, usually if you want an inform that affects how a PR is used you will just give it to the PR. my instinct is that it would not be lynched much more or less than just a vanilla townie.

the vig can also be a neighbor if that's what you want (i.e., neighbor vigilante would be a legal role). you can also change the informed townie to vig, not a big deal - it would make the neapolitan slightly better if you add it to the neighbor (in fact, if the full vig thing bothers you then i would advise adding a 2-shot vig to the neighbor - i'm fine either way, full vig in a mini is not uncommon at all)

[gobbledygook]

2-Shot Vigilante Neighbor

Neighbor

You are a

2-Shot Vigilante Neighbor

Abilities:

Vigilante - At night, choose a player to shoot. If successful, your chosen player will die.
Neighborhood - You are a member of a neighborhood located here.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

---

I think with the introduction of the vigilante, I want to remove the Informed Townie altogether to make the Neapolitan a little bit stronger.

Ok, so including Schadd's suggestions, a bird's eye view of the setup looks like this:

1 Ascetic Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Neighbor
1 Mafia Goon
vs
1 Tracker
1 Even-Night Neapolitan Neighbor
1 2-Shot Mafia Neighbor
7 Vanilla Townies

Does anyone have any suggestions based off that setup?

[schadd_]

good with me! rules, PMs seem fine.

slash pass

[PenguinPower]

^
What he said (assuming you change 2-shot Mafia Neighbor to 2-shot Vigilante Neighbor )

Neighborhood should be interesting since both Town Neighbors are also PRs independently of Neighbor.

[gobbledygook]

Haha the PM is right though!

[gobbledygook]

Randomizations

1 Even-Night Neapolitan Neighbor
1 Mafia Neighbor
VT
VT
VT
1 2-Shot Vigilante Neighbor
VT
VT
1 Ascetic Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Goon
VT
VT
1 Tracker

---

JTheophrastus Bartholomew
Looker
insomnia
Alchemist21
Macabre
Egix96
Luca Blight
EeveeLution Army
AaronFrost
profii
Chara
Wimpy
Ame

[gobbledygook]

JTheophrastus Bartholomew - even night neapolitan neighbor
Looker - Mafia Neighbor
insomnia - VT
Alchemist21 - VT
Macabre - VT
Egix96 - 2-shot Vigilante Neighbor
Luca Blight - VT
EeveeLution Army - VT
AaronFrost - Ascetic Mafia Goon
profii - Mafia Goon
Chara - VT
Wimpy - VT
Ame - Tracker

[gobbledygook]

=== Role PMs ===

Ascetic Mafia Goon

Ascetic Mafia Goon

You are an

Ascetic Mafia Goon

Abilities:

Ascetic - Any action that targets you, other than a kill, will fail as if roleblocked.
Mafia Chat - You have access to the Mafia Chat located here.
Night-kill - Your team has a factional night-kill. Each night your team can designate one teammate to perform this kill.

Win condition:

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

Mafia Neighbor

Mafia Neighbor

You are a

Mafia Neighbor

Abilities:

Neighborhood - You are a member of a neighborhood located here.
Mafia Chat - You have access to the Mafia Chat located here.
Night-kill - Your team has a factional night-kill. Each night your team can designate one teammate to perform this kill.

Win condition:

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

Mafia Goon

Mafia Goon

You are a

Mafia Goon

Abilities:

Mafia Chat - You have access to the Mafia Chat located here.
Night-kill - Your team has a factional night-kill. Each night your team can designate one teammate to perform this kill.

Win condition:

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

--- Town PMs ---

Vanilla Townie

Vanilla Townie

You are a

Vanilla Townie

Abilities:

You have no abilities other than your voice and your vote.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

Tracker

Tracker

You are a

Tracker

Abilities:

Track - each night you may choose a player to track. If successful, you will learn who they targeted that night. Your results will be "Targeted [x player]", "went nowhere", or "no result."

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

Even-Night Neapolitan

Even-Night Neapolitan Neighbor

You are an

Even-Night Neapolitan Neighbor

Abilities:

Neapolitan - on even nights (night 2, night 4, etc), you may target a player to learn if they are a Vanilla Townie. If successful, you will learn if that player is a Vanilla Townie. Your results will be "[player x] is a Vanilla Townie", "[player x] is not a Vanilla Townie", or "no result."
Neighborhood - You are a member of a neighborhood located here.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

2-Shot Vigilante Neighbor

2-Shot Vigilante Neighbor

You are a

2-Shot Vigilante Neighbor

Abilities:

Vigilante - At night, choose a player to shoot. If successful, your chosen player will die.
Neighborhood - You are a member of a neighborhood located here.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game Thread is located here.

Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment

[gobbledygook]

I am going to use this as my mod comments

The scumteam doesn’t want to kill in the hood because people assume it will contain a scum. That might be their undoing.

[gobbledygook]

I think the scumteam trying not to bus is going to be problematic in the future.

[gobbledygook]

Any word of advice for you Aaron, it’s that you should only claim scum when you hammer yourself. Allowing town to know you’re scum and get the rest of the deadline to talk about it puts your team in a tough spot.

[gobbledygook]

Vig is killing alchemist
Tracker is tracking alchemist