Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Something_Smart]

First?

[Something_Smart]

Well that happened.

[Something_Smart]

While awful, your idea does have a grain of accuracy in it, in that anyone getting lynched should claim their neighbor to prevent scum from doing shenanigans.

Undecided on whether someone whose neighbor was NK'd should claim it.

[Something_Smart]

Doc has a crappy chance of blocking a kill anyway.

That's not the point-- the primary strength of the doc is simply being able to be confirmed town through claiming.

The doc can also keep scum from killing the phone operator after they claim, at least for one night.

[Something_Smart]

Forcing scum to kill confirmed town is not exactly a plus.

[Something_Smart]

...There are so many things wrong with that, Elsa.

[Something_Smart]

I’ve never hear of an “indecisive” anything before? What does that even mean in this context?

Can't target the same player twice in a row.

Indecisive doctor is common in F2F.

[Something_Smart]

No scum can be doubled in a hood. We get a conftown. A lot of scenarios get eliminated.

This happens anyway though, if we force whoever we lynch to out their neighbor before they die.

[Something_Smart]

What’s “F2F” and I don’t understand why the doc has an “indecisive” modifier.

F2F = face-to-face. Presumably doc is indecisive so the phone operator can't claim D1 and be an unkillable IC.

[Something_Smart]

The Doc is functionally an IC

I mean, so is the phone operator, so long as they claim before LYLO.

[Something_Smart]

Although I guess you're using IC differently from me. The IC I'm used to is one that can reveal at any time.

[Something_Smart]

The Phone Operator can be fake!counterclaimed, the Doc can’t.

That's why I said before LYLO, so we have the opportunity to lynch both if there is a counterclaim.

There are few situations where a counterclaim would be optimal, especially since the phone operator has the possibility to confirm themself via their results.

[Something_Smart]

I think you and I are more or less on the same page, just using different words?

I suppose. That's how about 50% of my conversations go, anyway

My point is just that the doc isn't special, it's just vulnerable to being accidentally outed, and so we should do everything in our power to avoid that.

[Something_Smart]

but when does town ever play optimally, ss?

I'll keep leading the horses to water. Sooner or later one of them is bound to take a drink.

[Something_Smart]

I feel like we should stop any voting and claiming and whatnot and actually discuss this setup. It might be semi-breakable.

Probably not. Did you have anything in mind?

[Something_Smart]

Also, Jingle would like you to know that this setup is definitely not breakable because if it were then he would be playing in it instead of me.

[Something_Smart]

I have three voices in my head. Can't guarantee that any of them are of reason

[Something_Smart]

Jingle tells me Pine and Titus are town.

[Something_Smart]

Math... Hasn't commented in this game yet, but you claimed partners with Hectic.

Mathblade, not Mathdino.

[Something_Smart]

Elsa townsl-

Dammit.

[Something_Smart]

Amrun has replaced Mathdino on You Over A Disproportionately Small Gap.

Nuu

But at least we got an Amrun out of it.

[Something_Smart]

I just like neighborhoods for gambiting and reaction testing ngl. Having a place where you can document what you're really thinking while you say something else is very useful.

[Something_Smart]

I find I tend to get ignored when I do that.

[Something_Smart]

I very much doubt that anyone could misrepresent me and get away with it

Besides, that's not really what I meant-- it's generally on a smaller scale. As in, I would predict that someone would react such-and-such a way as town or scum, note that prediction in the hood, and then if I later come out and say as much I can back up the veracity of it if need be. Plus my neighbor can weigh in on whether they agree or disagree, and I can read them off of that as well.

[Something_Smart]

S_S is actually one of the more transparent players as town.

I generally try to be, yes.

But when I have a chance to be intentionally cryptic I'll usually take it

[Something_Smart]

I haven't claimed to have or not have a neighbor. That post was purely hypothetical.

[Something_Smart]

Massclaiming leaves us with dr vs mafia roleblocker, and phone operator.

What?

There isn't even a mafia roleblocker in this setup.

Massclaiming leaves the doctor outed and provides no further benefit.

Although I do think that, between them knowing their neighbors aren't doctor and the rolecop and people accidentally (or intentionally) giving away information, they'll know who the doctor is by D3 at the latest. So maybe we should mass neighbor claim on like D2.

[Something_Smart]

If the doctor dies before massclaim it makes Titus/Hectic pair more likely T/T.

[Something_Smart]

Calling it. [Krazy, nancy, one other]

._.

[Something_Smart]

Titus is still town though.

Yeah, I think I agree with you here.

[Something_Smart]

I'm so concerned right now.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think scum-bob would have any difficulty making that post?

[Something_Smart]

once hammer is announced every player should posts if they are that players neighbour. and i mean every player


before any hammer.

Well I mean or that player can claim their neighbor and the neighbor can just confirm it.

[Something_Smart]

It would be antitown for me to reveal my reasons.

._.

[Something_Smart]

The fact that DDL is trying to drive an extremely likely mislynch on Elsa is pinging my scumdar off the charts.

Townies have bad reads sometimes...

[Something_Smart]

192 just seems like attacking a townblock

Is that bad?

[Something_Smart]

If Pine is town I'm sure he can do better with encouragement :3

It's a bit early to be saying stuff like this, no? Some people have barely posted at all.

[Something_Smart]

Do you think Pine is town?

Probably > rand town. Jingle thinks he's town too.

[Something_Smart]

Is that a recent read from Jingle or still based on RVS/pre-111?

It's the same one from a while ago, although he commented on my game recently and didn't reverse it so he probably still thinks so.

[Something_Smart]

I'm doing it because I want to see what happens.

Well, congratulations, you saw what happened.

[Something_Smart]

I’m starting to doubt my Titus tr, she’s way to smart to allow Math to direct her.

I thought Titus made it very clear that she wasn't sheeping Math.

[Something_Smart]

ss ur so quippy this game

That's my town style, remember perfect masqurade?

I was nervous as hell in baton pass lol.

[Something_Smart]

@SS, See Civilization mafia. Math won't flip any opinion of mine.

No, I'm in agreement with you. You explained clearly that Math didn't change your opinion, but rather you decided to hear him out and see what happens without committing to anything.

Nancy is the one who seems to be misunderstanding.

[Something_Smart]

And if you were actually using your brain here, I would also be in this list. I had better stop or I may say something to harm our friendship. :/

Nancy please.

We're 24 hours into the game. Expecting people to townread you instantly is unrealistic, and you know it.

[Something_Smart]

You should both stop riling each other up.

[Something_Smart]

SS want to drop your vote on krazy with me ?

For what purpose?

[Something_Smart]

It's a lil bit early for that, no?

[Something_Smart]

If I say anything stupid, it's FL's fault.

[Something_Smart]

okay but the other option is you listen to nancy vs titus

or more rehashing of why massclaiming is bad d1

I mean you're welcome to engage me and/or others with your case on Krazy.

[Something_Smart]

Alright this can happen too if you're just going to be obnoxious

:/

[Something_Smart]

weird attempts at interacting with someone that avoids finding scum

What exactly do you mean by this? He's interacting without scumhunting?

[Something_Smart]

What makes you think finding scum isn't his purpose, just because he doesn't seem to be succeeding at it?

[Something_Smart]

I don't know, I think that's fairly consistent with a townie having trouble getting into the game.

[Something_Smart]

Did he say it was too early to do anything?

[Something_Smart]

I mean that post actually WAS early...

[Something_Smart]

Oh hi Eddie.

[Something_Smart]

ss ur not even voting anyone just give me your vote

With the stated purpose of pushing through a lynch already? No thanks.

[Something_Smart]

ok well what do you want to do in the meantime

Exactly what I am doing.

[Something_Smart]

Hi friend. How are you?

Great!

[Something_Smart]

Oka's case seems like the last one is expect him to give the Socratic treatment

How do you figure?

[Something_Smart]

I should probably try to link Coalition for you. Krazy acted super scummy in that but was town, so for him - actually being scummy is lurking and coasting. If he’s pushing anything no matter how bad, it’s usually more likely to be town indicative. So I still think he’s town.

I don't trust myself to form good meta reads based off of games I wasn't in, but that seems pretty consistent with his scum play in Alisae v Pine, as well.

[Something_Smart]

If he starts talking about his playstyle a lot, I’ll get worried.

But it's my playstyle to talk about my... wait a minute.

[Something_Smart]

I would have expected something more substantial rather than skirting around.

[Something_Smart]

Funny though it was that Eddie vote was garbage.

"I know he's on vacation but he should be contributing anyway" like how do you know how much time he has for mafia right now.

[Something_Smart]

I mean having enough time to post and having enough time to read and then post are two different things and you seem to be conflating them.

[Something_Smart]

But is posting for the sake of posting scummy?

[Something_Smart]

Do you believe that he hasn't been reading the thread beyond what is immediately there? Or is that just a hypothetical?

I mean, it's the natural assumption to make when he's barely posting and his posts only interact with stuff immediately before them.

I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing out a few short posts while on vacation.

[Something_Smart]

From its chronology I can only assuem you were responding to nan posts. Where she questiosn hectic vote.

That post was in response to 254, sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Something_Smart]

If you had to pick some to vote as they are teh player you think is most likely scum. Who woudl it be?

I don't think this question is helpful, because I don't have anyone I think is significantly more likely to be scum than random.

If I were to pick a scumread or a vote based off of very little things, that will have the effect of amplifying the read, probably causing people to believe it's stronger than it is and ask me to explain it and then be confused when my reasons aren't strong, and it may cause me to confbias on it.

Whereas, there's no benefit from doing so. I can be read just fine (in fact, probably better) without it.

[Something_Smart]

But what was its purpose.

To share my opinion that I thought you could make that post as scum?

[Something_Smart]

Its not like there was even attempt by you to try to discern if it was town me or scum me. But you just dismiss it.

Of course not, my point was that it can't be discerned from that post, because you'd be able to make it as either alignment.

[Something_Smart]

No, I'm saying I don't think I can be read better if I vote early on.

[Something_Smart]

I'm being pressured? That's news to me.

[Something_Smart]

Questioned, I guess.

What don't you like about it?

[Something_Smart]

I don't see a townie mindset there. As it stands.

You don't see a townie mindset in trying to prevent people from having spurious reads?

[Something_Smart]

529 is obtuse and righteous. I think this particular game I discussed how I scumread righteousness?

I don't think you did, and I also don't even know what you mean by "righteous" because that just means "morally good." If you mean "self-righteous" (aka "self-assured") I also don't understand how you got that from my post or why you think it's scummy.

The post is somewhat obtuse yes, but the question it's answering is also obtuse. He's assuming there was some ulterior motive to it besides from sharing my opinion, which there was not.

Separately ou're answering Bob in ways that will look best to the rest of the thread rather than the ways that will persuade him and that seems survivalistic to me

I'm answering him in ways that are true. I don't know why you'd think that town-me would do anything differently.

[Something_Smart]

Let me ask you do you think i am scum or town in those posts.

You must have seen something you thought was scum indictive. Or townie would of made such a posts.


A townie would then say instead. hey look here and here this could mean he is infact scum.

In fact you have not once said how that could me being scum. If you were genuine i woudl have thought you would have atleast tried. Instead you just dismiss it even though you cant see anything scum indicative

I don't think you're town or scum from that post. I think those posts are NAI. I said this already.

Not every post can be read into. Just because I read that post with the intent to find clues to your alignment doesn't mean that I did find any, because I don't think there were any, and I was focused on engaging Nancy who clearly disagreed with me on that front.

You have a very narrow-minded conception of how townies play.

[Something_Smart]

I mean caring about being right and being recognized as being right and in the right.

I mean...

I care about being right about the interpretation of my own posts. It's my responsibility to make sure I'm understood correctly, and to explain myself better if I am not.

[Something_Smart]

I think it's surprising past what should be plausible that you don't see why Bob has this scumread

I can totally see why he has it, and I just said as much. He's narrow-minded. It's not the first time I've played with someone like that.

What's weird is that this isn't the first time bob has played with me. But he was scum the other time, so if anything this reaction is town indicative for him (since he's now actually having to sort me).

[Something_Smart]

Hi Auro o/

[Something_Smart]

I kinda see a pops and bob team.

I doubt that, I don't think pops would jump on me while bob was still questioning me.

[Something_Smart]

I can only think of two possible reasons for this. One makes him locktown, the other scum.

...You don't think it's possible that he just didn't find it important?

[Something_Smart]

I mean, some people don't care about or like talking about mechanics.

Just because you personally wouldn't think that doesn't mean that nobody could.

[Something_Smart]

I literally have never read a post of Hectic’s, ever, that I don’t find to be scummy.

I thought Hectic was towny in Crown on the Ground (where he was town).

I don't think he's towny here, but I also think he intentionally decided to troll this game.

[Something_Smart]

Are you just mocking me or are you actually policy scumreading him?

[Something_Smart]

Okay, thanks.

I don't think he's posted enough serious content to be readable yet.

[Something_Smart]

Iirc S_S found the crumb before his first realpost, if I recall incorrectly he found it before Hectic was conftown to everyone at the end of day 1. I don't see why S_S didn't disclose that.

I actually never saw that crumb until Hectic pointed it out.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, Hectic is definitely the lynch today. Gut feeling, he's trying to draw out the real Doc.

This is an extremely shallow read.

[Something_Smart]

pisskop seems really earnest in his approach to the game this game, I really think he's town. I'm not sure how to explain it, it's kind of a tone thing?

I felt this too with pisskop's entrance, btw.

[Something_Smart]

@Pine: How am I drawing out a doctor claim when it's been confirmed that I'm a neighbour?

Right. That too.

[Something_Smart]

-Note: The Phone Operator is also an IC when they reveal, since they can confirm they have access to all neighbourhoods by referencing specific things from each of them.
-I picked this setup because it sounded like the most fun one.

> "I picked this setup because it sounded the most fun"
> Immediately gets an important part of the setup completely wrong

[Something_Smart]

Gee, tell the person you want to sort something that might help you sort them.

[Something_Smart]

Titus.

[Something_Smart]

I know at least one person who won’t be getting a paragon nom next year. Did you guess you? And you will always be the very LAST person on this site, I will ever be accepting criticisms wrt to my behaviour.

Can we not

[Something_Smart]

Na = sodium, Cl = chlorine, NaCl = sodium chloride = table salt.

[Something_Smart]

in fact I've never been called annoying while playing scum lol

Interesting.

Do you try to tell people what they want to hear?

[Something_Smart]

The way DDL is playing doesn't strike me as a way most people would play as scum, but it also isn't how I've seen him play as town in the past.

To anyone with meta, has he played ultra-passive and sheepy like this as scum before?

[Something_Smart]

...You don't remember anything Hectic has posted?

Wow, you must really not be following.

[Something_Smart]

You were pretty towny in Undertale Semiopen, and I don't recall you sheeping anyone there.

[Something_Smart]

I don't remember that being the case. I recall my activity was sparse and I talked a lot about mechanics

I mean I'm not talking about activity or mechanics discussion here, just the fact that you're doing a lot of sheeping relative to forming your own reads, whereas you mostly had your own opinions there.

To be clear I don't think anything is wrong with sheeping but it's a departure from what I've seen of you, which has only been town. Hence the concern.

[Something_Smart]

._.

[Something_Smart]

Hi SS. I want a reads list please. Are your teammates following?

Jingle followed a little bit earlier, the others not really yet.

I could ask their opinions if you'd like, though.

[Something_Smart]

{Nancy, bob}
{pisskop, Titus, Hectic, Oka}
{Pine}
{Eddie, Elsa, Amrun, NaCl, Krazy} - null
{pops, DDL}

[Something_Smart]

Town to scum or scum to town?

Labels, people, ffs

I want to say maybe once in my life I've seen a readlist listed scum to town, and it was clearly labeled as such.

Town is at the top. Town is always at the top.

[Something_Smart]

I would add S_S to that list particularly since he just posted.

What do you want me to say?

[Something_Smart]

Okay... I still don't know what kind of comment you are actually looking for though.

[Something_Smart]

1000

[Something_Smart]

REAL L1

Why are we here already.

[Something_Smart]

But it doesn't really seem like a good idea to policy lynch someone in one third of the allotted time.

[Something_Smart]

im not pling them

If so, you seem to be in the minority.

[Something_Smart]

Can we talk about that hammer attempt?

Is that bored-town-Elsa or lol-maybe-I-can-get-away-with-hammering-as-scum-Elsa?

[Something_Smart]

i mean advocate for an alternative lynch s_s otherwise we are wasting our time here

Right, because 100% of time in a mafia game is spent convincing people to lynch who you want to lynch.

[Something_Smart]

Your comment on the wagon happening quickly makes sense but how is Hectic a policy lynch?

Given that he's trolled a lot and nobody's stated any reasons for actually thinking he's scum, it's a pretty reasonable assumption.

[Something_Smart]

Aside from the doc crumb thing which was clearly bullshit.

[Something_Smart]

I remember town!Kokichi saying things like, “can I hammer my tr now?”

Yeah, it's clearly a player-dependent thing. I don't recall any Elsa-hammers off the top of my head so I don't know if this is a thing he likes to do as town or as scum (or both).

[Something_Smart]

I have. I don’t think you really understand the actual meaning of a policy lynch. Just because you disagree with the reasons, doesn’t make it a pl.

Right, you had some stuff about his non-reaction to Titus outing the hood, and him seeming disconnected.

I do know what a policy lynch is. I was somewhat sarcastically assuming that people who hadn't given reasons simply wanted him dead because he was annoying, which was an intentional exaggeration. I wanted to spark some actual discussion about people's reasons.

[Something_Smart]

I wanted to spark some actual discussion about people's reasons.

And it seemed like it worked, so yay.

[Something_Smart]

The attempted hammer is NAI because he admitted to it when it wasn't obvious he actually thought that would be a hammer

This is a good point.

[Something_Smart]

You’re throwing up scumreads on controversial people who aren’t going to change their minds on you and trying to appeal to those who might be swayed.

That post didn't try to appeal to any specific player.

[Something_Smart]

See, here's the problem.

Now I feel like Hectic is under enough pressure that his posts are going to be nervous and forced, regardless of his alignment. I agree that the readlist looked forced, I don't agree that it looked political, and I think it's definitely something a townie of Hectic's experience level might produce under serious pressure. (Terseness is actually a towntell there.)

[Something_Smart]

The time to 'read as genuine' is when he isn't the focal point.

And this is why wagoning him chronologically early, regardless of the number of pages in the game, is bad.

[Something_Smart]

But you were also the one who said that the wagon was justified based on the game length.

[Something_Smart]

This eg wagon is providing a plethora of information

Like what?

[Something_Smart]

He’s competent enough that I don’t accept memeing in TM2020 from him.

I don't follow the logic here. Is memeing and providing content worse than just providing content?

[Something_Smart]

He’s not providing content.

So that's your real issue, and memeing has nothing to do with it.

Why did you mention memeing as though you thought it was a problem?

[Something_Smart]

Site meta has gotten to the point where scum can pretty easily get away with being transparent for exactly that reason.

Occasionally, yes. If they did it too much, the meta would shift back.

[Something_Smart]

Could you explain the meta feature you two are chatting about, this went over my head

He's talking about the possibility of a Krazy/NaCl/Hectic team wagoning Oka to save Hectic. Which is something that would be super obvious, except that site meta might let them get away with it because "they wouldn't be so obvious."

[Something_Smart]

my being offwagon wasn't enough to keep her from disliking Hecticwagon's "comp".

._.

[Something_Smart]

Stop being reductive. I can have more than one issue with him

So what is your issue with the memeing, then?

[Something_Smart]

And memeing IS a problem. It’s counterproductive as Town and often used as cover for low content by scum

The second point is just complaining about the content again.

As for the first, how is it counterproductive?

[Something_Smart]

Quite on the contrary, if I was scum I would have carefully reread that before posting.

._.

[Something_Smart]

Nice, NaCl is town.

[Something_Smart]

What exactly do you want me to say? Stop outing hoods?

There really isn't much to this setup besides "claim when your neighbor dies and not before."

[Something_Smart]

I mean I'm way more nervous as scum so maybe that's part of it.

[Something_Smart]

Are you nervous right now?

...no?

[Something_Smart]

I seriously doubt scum!SS hard defends town!Hectic.

I disagree with that, btw.

[Something_Smart]

Can you expand on why you're so strong on town bob?

He was interrogating me way more intensely than he ever did to anyone in tris's game when he was scum. It seemed like he had a legitimate grievance with my playstyle that he only realized now when he actually had to sort me.

[Something_Smart]

anyone else thing bob is like a s_s clone

No, not really... he and I had a big argument because he didn't understand my playstyle at all.

[Something_Smart]

s_s how does this game differ from your play in baton pass

I'm not awkwardly distancing, I suppose. Other than that, it doesn't really by that much.

[Something_Smart]

Not really, Baton Pass is the strongest scumgame I've ever played and I was expecting to be townread in it.

[Something_Smart]

Besides, most people here weren't in that anyway.

[Something_Smart]

No.

[Something_Smart]

Eddie, how confident are you that Krazy is scum?

[Something_Smart]

Eddie, how confident are you that Krazy is scum?

[Something_Smart]

SS you are not frazzled at me voting you because you think I'm scum my vote doesn't matter or that I'll see eventually you're town

Neither? One vote doesn't frazzle me when the majority of people are townreading me.

[Something_Smart]

So my vote doesn't matter, since it's one vote gotcha

I mean it does matter, but it's not as though one vote is going to lynch me.

[Something_Smart]

Eddie, how confident are you that Krazy is scum?

[Something_Smart]

Very. He is Ank's top kill. He is Tom's top kill by a margin.

Are you willing to be lynched tomorrow if we lynch Krazy and he flips town?

[Something_Smart]

I agree with you that pops has felt off.

Krazy I have no opinion on at present which may be a bad sign unto itself.

[Something_Smart]

If I said yes, you really think I'd ever follow through and roll over?

No.

But I would votepark you and not look back so I don't care

[Something_Smart]

No one in my team is currently following.

{bob, Nancy, NaCl}
{Hectic, pisskop}
{Titus, Eddie}
{Oka, Elsa, Amrun, Krazy} - null
{Pine}
{pops}

I can explain any reads you'd like but the specificity of each read will be inversely proportional to the number of reads you want me to explain.

[Something_Smart]

Doodles isnt on that list

Derp.

Shockingly he's also null.

[Something_Smart]

We do indeed have mildly differing reads.

Explain Nacl and Bob, please. And if you have good reasons for Pops or Pine, those too.

NaCl read was pretty much entirely for 1244. The first line ("Pops, I would have expected you to have a stronger read on me.") is something that generally comes from town (town is generally better and more confident in their assessments of how they are likely to be read). The post contains a bunch of good questions and there's a great example of going against the grain (also a towntell) at the end. The Hectic read is very deep and I agree with the reasoning there.

Bob read is based on his interactions with me starting at 522. (526, 527, 532, 538, 543.) This is a pretty common sequence of someone seeing my playstyle for the first time and trying to puzzle it out... except bob has played with me before. As scum. And he did no such thing. So unless he held off on doing something like this for the first few days of that game (until I became conftown), only to drop it here, it indicates a massive shift in how he perceives me between this game and last game, and, well, the simplest explanation for such a shift is that he actually has to read me now.

What is this concept of "good reasons" you speak of. I feel like my pops reasons are probably similar and less in-depth to your team's. I just don't see a lot of solving effort and when I was scum with pops she did a lot of treading water and just like talking about stuff without really going anywhere. Can't really point to specific posts as this is more a lack of towny content which has usually been there when pops has been town.

Pine read is the opposite, his content overall is fine but he has a few posts I just really dislike. 641 is just dumb, 892 feels overblown (and having been scum with Pine as well, he definitely makes overblown posts like that as scum), 1074 and 1081 are in very bad faith and feel manipulative, and the whole Hectic push and backing off of it doesn't seems natural and seems agenda-y.

[Something_Smart]

no one responded to my reasons for TRing him.

Link?

[Something_Smart]

Titus, that seems to only be a defense against Nancy's specific accusation that Pine was pushing too hard, and not a reason to townread him in general.

[Something_Smart]

If you are town but were scum instead. What do you feel you would do in relation of nancys wagon

In relation to which wagon?

[Something_Smart]

Krazy Oka and pk are my top townreads, with Oka a full tier above pk.

Am I crazy or is this the first you're mentioning of a Krazy townread?

[Something_Smart]

i can't be scum and have real teammate reads

Sure you can. You aren't required to tell your teammates your alignment.

[Something_Smart]

Her actually referencing Doc rolecop shots is weird.

Right, because for Eddie outing the hood to have actually helped scum, they would have to both be town... but she voted him in that post so clearly she didn't think that.

Yeah, that's pretty nasty.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: pops

[Something_Smart]

How about you focus on getting one scum before you start looking for the other two.

[Something_Smart]

I'm voting Eddie for being very flippant about revealing the neighborhood as a slip that he forgot it should have impact at least x% of the time, the times he's misread me and I'm town, but he mistakenly substituted it having impact 0% of the time because he's scum and he's been discussing the neighborhood arrangements in a PT for days.

...that really doesn't sound like a thing Eddie would do.

[Something_Smart]

Is it bad I almost want to kill krazy more than pops

No, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

[Something_Smart]

idk i haven't seen anyone calling hectic or bob town.

Hi I've called both of those players town lol

[Something_Smart]

I'm down with calling town Tom.

I agree with most of Eddie's Tomreads.

[Something_Smart]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

I didn't, and I am serious.

I probably will at some point though.

It's advantageous in the same way that not reading your role PM is advantageous (and therefore not allowed).

[Something_Smart]

Hmph, has everyone made up their minds here? Am I the only slow thinker?

I'm a slow thinker.

Just because I'm voting pops doesn't mean I've made up my mind about anyone else.

[Something_Smart]

Now you are pushing this ridiculous theory too? Serious question, does anyone here besides Pops, NaCi, Krazy thinks this even remotely makes even an iota of sense?

How in the actual fuck do you not know any of your team members’ alignment in a game if fucking TEAM mafia?

It makes plenty of sense. Your teammates don't know you're scum, they can't possibly commit scumtells in their reads.

That said I think the isolation it causes outweighs that, but it depends on the team.

[Something_Smart]

Can you please comment on the game? My town read is slipping because of your lack of activity.

What do you want me to talk about? I don't usually comment much unprompted after placing a vote.

[Something_Smart]

Your alignment is probably the opposite of pops's.

Krazy's alignment is probably the opposite of yours.

This will be a vastly more productive discussion to have tomorrow, after we know pops's alignment.

[Something_Smart]

Lul, how is it advantageous for you if you're town? If you don't tell them, won't they just assume you're town?

If they do assume you're town, then there's no downside, and no reason not to do it because of the hypothetical benefit.

[Something_Smart]

Who's scum in Eddie/Krazy?

Hell if I know, but fortunately we have enough mislynches to guess wrong.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think Krazy and Pops have to be partners. Much much more often than not there is one donkey town and one scum, not two scum hard pushing something stupid. The main point to SvS here is Pops and Krazy awkward ass reads on each other, and the weird distancy reads but both coalescing on me.

So, my alignment doesn't have to be opposite to both of them. I would bet 20$ if I could at least one of them is scum. But I need individual analysis, for purposes of sorting you. Why did you choose to vote Pops over me? Why Pops over Krazy? Which of Pops and Krazy do you think is more likely scum? What is your independent read on our 3 slots? These are various prompts, you don't need to answer each one like a separate question, but I think its clear what I'm asking.

Sure, seems reasonable. Those claims were only a baseline because like I said I'd prefer to do more analysis once we actually have a flip.

Between the three of you, pops is the only one I have any sort of independent read on, and it's a scumlean. It hasn't really changed much or been affected by recent posting; I have simply seen pops be aggressive and genuine in past towngames, and have seen her scumgame be just kind of bland and attention-avoiding, and this looks more like the latter.

[Something_Smart]

It's a differing scum philosophy. Some people simply try to look town as scum; others actively play differently in order to push the scum wincon. It depends on how strong your towngame usually is, how self-aware you are, and how much charisma you have.

My scum philosophy is most definitely the former. So it would help me. But it would not help everyone.

[Something_Smart]

I should clarify that by "look town as scum" I mean "imitate their own towngame."

[Something_Smart]

There isn't one. But I didn't know I was going to be town when I decided to do that.

[Something_Smart]

.___.

[Something_Smart]

Amrun and Oka are probably both town if SS flips scum.

Also what

I have not interacted with either of those players barely at all

[Something_Smart]

Sorry, ignore. It was antispew

Huh

[Something_Smart]

from a townie's perspective, your neighbour has a 3/7 chance of being scum.

*3/11

There are 11 townies with neighbors, and 3 of them have scum neighbors.

[Something_Smart]

There are 7 neighbourhoods and 3 of which have scum in them. So if you're town, your neighbour has a 3/7 chance of being scum.

That isn't how math works. If you were to label the players like:

Scum 1 - Town 1
Scum 2 - Town 2
Scum 3 - Town 3
Town 4 - Town 5
Town 6 - Town 7
Town 8 - Town 9
Town 10 - Town 11

A townie has an equal chance of being in any of those 11 town slots. If they happen to be in Town 1, Town 2 or Town 3 (3/11 chance), their neighbor is scum; otherwise, their neighbor is town.

[Something_Smart]

Although the odds of your neighbor being scum are still higher than the odds of a random person being scum, I forget exactly but I think it's about 50% higher.

[Something_Smart]

If pops flips town, Eddie probably has to die at some point.

[Something_Smart]

Why?

Math + hard push + counterwagon.

An unwnd scumflip would change that but I'm not sure if I want to turn around and sheep Eddie on his second scumread if his first was wrong.

[Something_Smart]

Doesn't have to be tomorrow, though.

[Something_Smart]

Although Jingle said 2519 was very towny.

[Something_Smart]

I never said he was scum, I only said he should probably die.

[Something_Smart]

Who's lurking?

[Something_Smart]

Oof, conversing with you is occasionally tiresome, S_S.

What’s your read on Eddie, ignoring all maths?

Yeah, sorry. It's late and I'm a bit out of sorts.

I will be better tomorrow once we have flips and not hypotheticals.

I think Eddie is > rand town for just the amount of effort he's put into controlling the game (and the amount of backlash he's gotten for it), since that probably would not be a sustainable strategy as scum.

[Something_Smart]

Didn’t you say something like that about mine and RC’s slot in BP about your buddy Shoshin?

Yes

I've also said it about RC as town

[Something_Smart]

Wut

[Something_Smart]

Pine was not my neighbor.

[Something_Smart]

Pine wasn't your neighbor, right?

[Something_Smart]

smh you killed pine just so i wouldnt push ppp

._.

[Something_Smart]

I've offered plenty of perspectives to consider but they seem to have fallen on deaf ears.

I feel like you've given very little commentary on the game itself

Who do you think is town based on the pops wagon?

[Something_Smart]

Okay, for some reason I cannot quote that message. I don't understand this website sometimes.

It should work... you might be accidentally deleting the first line or something.

[Something_Smart]

I’m willing to vote either but unwind appears to be open wolfing now. He had two nights to catch up on the game and he refuses to read ANYTHING?

It’s not like he’s just saying he’s not fully caught up yet but to outright refuse? Seriously dafuq?

I don't see the scum motivation in that, I also don't see why that would be a decision made after receiving a role PM rather than before.

[Something_Smart]

i think its hectic from a nka standpoint

I agree the Pine kill makes zero sense.

I don't know if Hectic scum is the best explanation though. Most people probably would have realized that Pine was lynchable if they thought he was a present threat.

[Something_Smart]

If anything it was a teamfearkill, is there anyone here who knows one of Pine's teammates really well.

[Something_Smart]

I think Pine was killed by somebody who either thought he was more townread than he was or was convinced he was a PR for some reason.

I think looking at the people who townread Pine is the best way to get something out of NKA. The latter option is a lot harder to predict.