Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[mastina]

VOTE: Disable Strongman
Easy choice.
Neighborhoods are worthless unless a later mechanic can chain with them (e.g. spending xp to make things loyal + spending xp to neighborize being a combo).
Training cop is also worthless.

Disabling strongman is the clear decision here.

[mastina]

VOTE: Mastina

Do I know you?

VOTE: Mastina

VOTE: lady chloe

<3

Hectic +Townpoints, momo +scumpoints

Agreed.

everyone sheep pine

Sounds like a plan to me.

@mod: Will any of these Public Mechanics show up on Day 2 as options, or are we not aware of that fact?

Not public information.

Not public information, but as it so happens, my role gives me a very good hint; I am under the impression via my role that all mechanics to vote on will only appear once; if they aren't chosen, then by default, they can never be chosen again.

[mastina]

Pretty sure the scum who did the nightkill would claim that they train cop checked and that would be the end of it

Yeah, but they have to claim their result on the person too, and they won't know whether they were Training/Not Training.

Small problem with that. It gives me a massive townread on Hectic for having townslipped, but does anyone else realize the key problem with Hectic's plan which makes this a townslip?

[mastina]

Let`s discuss quests: My opinion:

No one should do quests.

The drawbacks are too severe. In the worst case, the item might even go to scum on top of a townie being 0-xp`d. I see no pro-town way to use the quest mechanics. If someone does, please tell us.

Yeah I read the way it originally was and it sounded like a Resistance minigame; town get an advantage if scum choose to let them have it, but scum can optionally have a sabotage mechanic in place if they were a part of it. That version had zero downsides to being done since scum would be poe'd if they tried to fuck with the town. But since the revised version was posted, it became utterly worthless.

[mastina]

Training cop is also worthless. Disabling strongman is the clear decision here.

Why?

The entire reason people are voting for training cop is based around a flawed premise of 'we can use it to catch scum'. Except we can't, there's a mechanical reason that people are overlooking which nullifies that idea altogether and makes it entirely debunk. Train Cop is equally as worthless as Neighborizer here because it doesn't actually generate any useful information to be gathered due to the way the scum nightkill works.

You could theoretically use it to catch someone who lied about training that instead used a different action, but that 'different action' isn't the scum nightkill so this catching a lie is probably catching town lying in a gambit more likely than catching scum lying in a gambit.

[mastina]

This alt is a playstyle experiment.

Well let me tell you, if you're town it's a failure already. (I guess you could argue it's also a failure as scum if I pegged you this early, buthey, never know.)

Because I'm pretty sure this is not the result you intended from your alt:
HURT: Lady Chloe.

[mastina]

No, but i do think hectic is +town for that post. Enlighten us?

Read the mechanics post again.
Read

all

of it.

Or should I say, read

all

of it.

[mastina]

IV. Actions
This game contains two types of night actions: standard actions and bonus actions. Unless otherwise specified, all actions are standard actions. Each player may carry out a maximum of one standard action and any number of bonus actions in one night,

unless they Train, in which case they may take no other actions (standard or bonus)

.

The Mafia factional kill is a bonus action

; this in effect means that all Mafia members are multitasking, as they may carry out the Mafia kill at the same time as taking a personal action.

Players may also have passive abilities, which are abilities that always trigger and cannot be roleblocked or interfered with.

This game also contains day actions. Any number of day actions can be taken during a day, but each day action can only be taken once per day unless otherwise specified.

@Mastina scum cannot kill if they train

...Oh.

[mastina]

VOTE: Train Cop

[mastina]

This alt is a playstyle experiment.

Well let me tell you, if you're town it's a failure already. (I guess you could argue it's also a failure as scum if I pegged you this early, buthey, never know.)

Because I'm pretty sure this is not the result you intended from your alt:
HURT: Lady Chloe.

Be nice, mastina. I support all private alts. I think it's a preposterous reason to SR someone.

You're not reading right.

I'm not scumreading Lady Chloe for being an anonymous alt.
I'm scumreading Lady Chloe for their contributions to the game thusfar.

[mastina]

Actually i'd like mastina to answer this:

This alt is a playstyle experiment.

Well let me tell you, if you're town it's a failure already. (I guess you could argue it's also a failure as scum if I pegged you this early, buthey, never know.)

Because I'm pretty sure this is not the result you intended from your alt:
HURT: Lady Chloe.

What do you expect from this?

To 'lynch' (as close as is possible given the game mechanic) Lady Chloe.

[mastina]

Can I be the leader of the quest??

I'd trust PB as a leader over spring for what it's worth--not because I think spring is suspicious (spring's probably town), but because I trust PB to make better use out of being the leader than spring.

[mastina]

Only if you share it with me, Pink Ball. We should ration leadership out.

That said, would trust Hectic with leader even more than PB. PB, love ya to death, but you're not as obvtown as Hectic is and I got the sense that Hectic is more mechanically-minded than you so like. Hectic > PB > spring imo for leadership.

[mastina]

VOTE: Disable Strongman
Back to here I guess.

[mastina]

All joke aside, Hectic was wrong about the mechanics all along you know?

So was I, and I am an incredibly mechanics-oriented player. I made an oversight, so did Hectic, but the mindset of being a mechanics-oriented player remains, which is what I was referring to.

[mastina]

VOTE: Disable Strongman
Back to here I guess.

@mastina, please point out why Hectic demonstrate amazing mechanics qualities.

It's self-evident in his posts. He might've made a mistake, but he still reasoned through a process, formed a strategy, planned things out, reasoned the mechanics out, etc., in a way demonstrating an aptitude towards mechanical solving and natural gift for game mechanics.

Yes, he made an imperfect plan that had a mistake, but as I said--so did I in MY understanding of the mechanics, and if I, a player who I know is mechanically gifted, made a mistake on the mechanics, then I know that Hectic making a mistake on the mechanics does not disqualify him from being a mechanically-gifted player.

[mastina]

What is a mechanic oriented player?

Players like me, Drixx, Cerberus666, and the like. Of which there are dozens. Many still prominent players, though I can't recall their names off the top of my head, would be able to name them if they were in the game with me. You could make the argument that a player like Titus can show mechanical aptitude, and there's players like Mathdino who I seem to recall was mechanically gifted, and there's at least one more currently active prominent scummer who I know is good with mechanics.

Players who have the demonstrated ability to look at the mechanics in question, think them out, ration them out, create ideas, create plans, to utilize mechanics to their maximum, to give advantages beyond what they should have.

Being a mechanical player doesn't mean you need to nail mechanics perfectly; you could always make mistakes on game mechanics as a mechanical player. I've made mechanical mistakes in spite of identifying as a mechanical player, Cerb has made mechanical mistakes, Titus has made mechanical mistakes, you get the idea. But the demonstrated mindset is there.

[mastina]

Just gonna remind y'all that today is a holiday that my family does celebrate so yes I do need to take the day off most likely. (Small chance I contribute, large chance I don't.) If I don't contribute, see y'all tomorrow. <3

[mastina]

If not, please do critique my plan.

I read it while I was really tired, slightly braindead, and feeling the need to catch up--I'll reread it when I'm none of those things. Right now, close, but I need to catch up.

If I'm still not tired, then I'll give it a good look. (Well, assuming I remember.)

[mastina]

Can you point me to which Chloe posts are poor contributions to the game? Her iso is short enough, this shouldn't be a huge effort.

Basically, her mechanic talk felt tacked on as a "this is something I feel like I should be doing".

Her contributions outside of mechanic talk have felt disingenuous.

[mastina]

Please elaborate on the bolded as well. I'm not discounting the possibility to be wrong on springlullaby, but your level of confidence seems misplaced and i'd like to understand why this is the case.

Because of spring's conviction, more or less--she's so sure that she's right about her plan being the correct one, in a way that I don't think comes from scum.

[mastina]

I'd like to hear your understanding and what you remembered of Train from the last XP game, Mastina.

Honestly? Nothing.

I remembered none of the mechanics that game other than that you gained XP and could use it on things such as leveling up your role--I can tell you plenty about the gameplay tho! Like I hard, hard, HARD bussed my scumbuddy who hard, hard, HARD bussed me and how neither of us got lynched and we divided the town completely in half with one half defending me and one half defending my scumbuddy, and then how in lylo someone got a loyal tracker 'no result' investigating me, but because of the mod fucking up on

my

role initially, because of the mod making a mistake, I was able to, after the mod corrected that mistake, say that I was redirected onto the loyal tracker as a roleblocker, with it being a plausible story.

(Notably, violated occam's razor; it invented a previously-unknown role in the form of an unknown redirector that scum magically mystically had access to. Buthey, I'm the one who advocates for using occam's razor as town so with the only person who'd have advocated for not violating occam's razor as scum, I got away with it. )

[mastina]

I have my reasons to avoid Questing. I share this thought now since you lot will learn my action either way. Unless 9+ or all players Quest, I strongly doubt I will quest. I will speak no further on mechanics, unless I am proposed better strategies otherwise.

Don't mind me, just instantly blindly going to go on the quest specifically because Lady Chloe doesn't want us to.

[mastina]

you listed my crew

ITT Ginngie reveals she's trying to mutiny by saying it's

her

crew when she's a member of it not the captain of it.



(<3)

[mastina]

Mastina is a master mind, however, and very cognizant of the mechanical details.

Cognizant of the details in the current game.

Not in a past iteration of the game that was literally over two years ago.

I don't care how mechanically-oriented you are, you're not going to remember the mechanics of a game from over two years ago when you play dozens of games every single year. You'd need to look them up, and I haven't. Thus, the only mechanics I remember are the ones which were pertinent to key features of the game, e.g. what my role upgraded into, the optional loyal action, because both had incredible game significance.

[mastina]

That was more than two years ago... Do you remember all things from two years ago? I see the possibility of it being faked but it isn`t big enough to be scum indicative.

Oh NK15 gets free townpoints on the virtue of beating me to my point before I made it.

[mastina]

@Pine, i think you are the authority here when talking about mastina, is that AI for her?

Actually.
The authority for reading me this game would probably be Pink Ball.

Pine has never had fairly strong read accuracy on me--he likes to tout that I've never had fairly strong read accuracy on him, but it works the other way, too. I've fooled him entirely as scum, and he's many, many, many times thought I was scum when I was town. He's played with me a lot though, so he has a good idea of when something's not alignment indicative, so he can tell you when something's nai, but I wouldn't call him the best player at saying what's ai for me. He's not terrible, in fact he's probably still above 50%, above standard, above the norm, in spite of how he gets it wrong, so he's one of the better players in this game, but I wouldn't call him the best in this game, especially since Pine and I frequently go months, even years, between playing games, where both of us get rusty on reading the other.

Ginngie's similar to Pine but probably has slightly higher accuracy than he does. She's been gone for a long, long time so past accuracy might not currently extend, I've been able to fool her as scum before, but I don't think she's been wrong on me being town before, at least traditionally--again tho, been a long time since we've played together, so hard to say for sure.

Which is why I say Pink Ball's probably the most accurate on me. He's played a shitload with me in recent times, we play about one game a month together or so (that is to say, most games I play in, he's in, too), and he was very quick to catch on to how to read me correctly. Again, that's not to say Ginngie or Pine are bad at reading me, they're just in this game not the

best

of the best at reading me.

[mastina]

For the record- I have joined the quest.

Just to reiterate--so have I.
I'll look at the plan later but this was something done largely out of spite.

[mastina]

oh btw I have a 100% accuracy on you when I use the chart.

Right, I actually think that's true, but I think that you haven't been in a game where I was scum since adapting reading-the-flowchart as a strategy.

[mastina]

Oh herpderp.
Me quoting Ginngie will probably give the impression I'm caught up, I'm not, I just was going to Coney Island, saw a game I'm in that had unread posts and clicked on it, forgetting that that's the game I'm currently catching up in.

Still getting there.

[mastina]

Flight of the Conchords (secret hydra)
Ginngie
Pink Ball
mastina
momo
Pine
Lady Chloe
Raya36
springlullaby
Ame
Not Known 15
Farkset (Farkran + Kerset)

So I genuinely can't tell; is this town to scum or scum to town? It doesn't seem to make much sense either way.

[mastina]

Ginngie has done nothing but sheep their crew so far lol.

I'm sheeping a big enough group so they can't all be scum and my slot can do pro-town things while I'm currently busy in life not able to focus.

(Ginngie is town by the way. Thought y'all should know. <3)

[mastina]

hey ya'll im town so just shout my name and i'll read it and respond.

Is okay, Ginngie, I be vouching for you being town as of now.

[mastina]

Do you really want to hurt me?
Do you really want to make me cry?

(I really shouldn't townread PB since he's not out of his scumrange but I really realllllllly want to right now so fuckit I'll call him town too.)

[mastina]

If not, please do critique my plan.

I read it while I was really tired, slightly braindead, and feeling the need to catch up--I'll reread it when I'm none of those things. Right now, close, but I need to catch up.

If I'm still not tired, then I'll give it a good look. (Well, assuming I remember.)

For the record--good news! I remembered.
Bad news!
I'm braindead right now. Just, really really tired. (You might've noticed I'm replying less often and the fact that I'm leaving this thread to go to others and then come back is hint enough of this, because like. I be tired.)

[mastina]

Why do you only provide advice on who should be most accurate at reading you, but you offer no read on the same slot if you say you have been playing together a lot recently?

Because the slots haven't done anything truly alignment-indicative and I didn't see the need to randomly point out "oh hey by the way, slot X is null" when null is not an indicator the slot is scum and not an indicator the slot is town.

What makes him town?

Apparently, surprisingly, I can still soulread her. Wasn't expecting to, but like. She just town here.

[mastina]

Is this flowchart Ginngie speaks of public domain?

Incredibly so.

[mastina]

Pink Ball,

May you weigh the pros and cons you see to capturing an individual today?

I'm interested in this, and your comments after pink ball answer

I have my own opinion on the matter too

-Farkran

Hi. Quoting this as a reminder to myself.
I've been on mafiascum for over nine hours--I am dead tired and completely. And entirely. Drained. (For good reason, mind.) I don't have the capacity for catching up on this game, will do so tomorrow, maybe.

[mastina]

Uhg, still not able to post right now.
And I'm

V/LA over weekends

, so I'm not sure I'll be here then either.
So I'll be here either Sunday or Monday.