Open 805 Panic Room Day 1
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Ehhh, do you have an idea of where to go with the process? To me murdercat is the one person that looks scummy, then there's a confusing null morass of {salsabil, n_m, penguin, yyotta}, and everyone else seems all right. This is all from surface-level ISO-skimming, though. I don't know what the bombIn post 838, Dumb and Dumber wrote:Nay, while the ultimate chance of hitting the bomb D1 is low I think the process itself has other valuable outcomes
-Dumbasswouldbe doing but I feel as though it'd depend heavily on the player that drew the role and mafia aren't necessarily going to go out of their way to defend the bomb on day 1 (which would also depend pretty heavily on who is scum).- catboi
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Don't ask me ┐(´ー`)┌In post 843, YyottaCat wrote:
So... how do you tell a bomb apart from a goon?In post 837, catboi wrote:Probably, but bomb-hunting day 1 seems like a fool's errand, if someone is scummy vote them IMO
on skims, Dany&dragon, infinity, and gamma look townie, and no, there is no rhyme or reason to who I'm choosing to look at, this is all gut and I reserve the right to change my mind at any time
Tell me, yyotta, cat to cat: what are your thoughts on MURDERCAT this game?- catboi
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In fairness, I don't think it's because you're playing lazyIn post 858, MURDERCAT wrote:
Sorry everyone, I was officially burnt out. But I am fully back now. Sorry for contributing the game dying a bit.In post 820, MURDERCAT wrote:Sorry everyone I have to cut this short, but I hope to be back later tonight
If you think I'm scum because I'm playing lazy then so be it. But I am back now, and I hope I've earned the benefit of the doubt because I am a strong town player when I get going.- catboi
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What did you think of his vote on you? You never responded to the points he made against youIn post 877, YyottaCat wrote:I was originally townreading MURDERCAT because he doesn't seem scummy to me. But then the MURDERCAT wagon built up and now I have no idea.- catboi
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I thought on a skim he wasn't bad but I keep forgetting he's a player in this game, probably because he hasn't posted since I joined.In post 891, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:Do you mind looking in his ISO and pointing to where that started?
On an unrelated note, I didn’t really like gamma’s reaction to me vs auro, repeatedly saying it was pointless and then not bothering to try to redirect or offer any game-related content. I don’t have much, if any, experience playing with him but I feel like he doesn’t really feel interested in solving.
- Daenerys
MURDERCAT himself was the leading wagon.In post 892, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:Re: murdercat pushing penguin, I think town!penguin is a deceivingly easy-looking push for scum to make. I’m not sold on town!penguin but I think it’s worth looking into who the top wagon was when murder tried to wagon penguin to see whether it could have been scum!murder trying to divert wagon away from a scumbuddy. Need to sleep so I’ll do that tomorrow after work hopefully.
@skitter what implications do you think the stalled gamestate has?
- Daenerys
They seem decent enough to me, leaning toward town.In post 894, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:I also still have serious reservations about dumb&dumber but am trying to compile like actually coherent sentences about it before I blow up the thread again. But from where I’m standing, they haven’t done anything particularly town-indicative. Can I get people’s thoughts on them please?
- Daenerys
Penguin. It feels like the active lurking and filler posting is basically a playstyle thing for him and he hasn't really scumtold or towntold, he's just there. He could be scum but I don't think the stuff murdercat is pointing at says a lot either way and I have my own issues with murder's posting.In post 901, Green Crayons wrote:also i realize i may be mis-interpreting 889. who is dead null: murdercat or penguin?- catboi
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In post 237, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I think this is a town postIn post 107, shadowslug wrote:i might be new but that doesnt mean you should say "newbie did this" for every move i make
it's like saying the "new guy" when you have a new person at school. it's a little patronisingIn post 238, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Also probably townIn post 109, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
Eh it was more that i dont have words to elborate than being defensive i would sayIn post 106, shadowslug wrote:nervous isn't the right word but this seems like you're getting annoyed at their questioning of you in a defensive way
I already have townpings on 4 slots!
~ skitter
Ehh, I awareded this points for effort on first glance but the reasoning doesn't really make sense?In post 241, Gamma Emerald wrote:Slug’s post seems a bit glitzy in a way scum wouldn’t want
For skitter I just relate to that post on a personal level
In post 405, Gamma Emerald wrote:okay
I'm just seeing that your current commentary seems devoted to optimal mechplay, which isn't that bad until factoring in that flatness
This gets a thonk.In post 802, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also can someone come up with a good reason for MCat being scum or is this just because he’s not a TR yet
I feel like most games MCat gets pressed early as town- catboi
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I liked gamma bothering to try to meta-dive yyotta, but he voted her for having a prepared opening and hasn't shifted it since, and that opening was clearly a joke and extremely NAI, it just feels lazy at this point
dumb & dumber read is basically gut at this point (sorry!), just going on an ISO skim and saying hmm, this looks all right. I think they had a few posts I liked I could dig up if really necessary but for now I'm like, eh, I'll work with them because they haven't done anything I dislike
MURDERCAT's more complicated, I'll need a moment to put into words the issues I had with his posting.- catboi
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This is an attempt to explain what I haven't liked about MURDERCAT:
Calling out PP for active lurking/"responding to safe stuff only" (225/229) feels like a cheap attack.
This is a pretty weak post, he says pressure on GC is "useful" but puts an empty vote elsewhere because of N_M, doesn't really contribute much in the way of meaningful pressure on either of themIn post 356, MURDERCAT wrote:
Yeah I guess this is true. I wanted to see the GC reaction to that vote and to try to get PP to do stuff but then he just didn't lol. So I guess this vote is useless.In post 348, Infinity 324 wrote:Murder what do you think of GC atp? I lean town on penguin for not trying to look town
UNVOTE:
I think the pressure on GC is useful, it's content at least.
VOTE: YyottaCat
I'm going to vote here instead though because NM.
The case on yyotta in 579 feels weak, he's taking a lot of stuff that feels like noob tells and attributing scumminess to it...but at the same time, I feel like if he's scum and he felt yyotta was flipbait he could push, he'd be going after her harder, and that's where my potential s/s theory came in.
This feels like baselessly putting suspicion on someone, doesn't actually respond to anything they've said, just discredits townreads on someone because of a reputation.In post 581, MURDERCAT wrote:Isn't skitter really good at scum? Like she is surface level townie sure but I am worried about that.
Don't really like the excuse making in 716, that coupled with a lot of his posts being empty one-liners. Reaction to yyotta in 724 is an odd one, just "uhhh" at the scumread he's voting making a vote he presumably finds scummy? It's a very tepid response. Readslist in 734 feels especially flat, the reasoning feels like scum explaining things rather than town reasoning, especially don't like him only concludig with "we need more pressure here" about yyotta.
I don't like the unvote in 816 either, his explanation in 868 is just that it doesn't make sense that yyotta would be defending him as scum by asking why people were voting him, but I think he's smart enough to know scum aren't going to hop on every wagon and asking that single question isn't really a strong defense or a towntell, it looks more like him making an excuse to get off yyotta.
858 especially just feels like a post scum makes, the "trust me guys I'll start REALLY playing and be useful soon" that scum who's gotten off to a slow start uses to try to buy time.- catboi
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I wrote that up without seeing dragons's comments on murder ftr. I didn't really highlight it there but in general his ISO feels like it has, well, a lot of the filler he accuses PP of, and he doesn't really seem to be pursuing his scumreads with any kind of vigor which I think is part of why he feels "flat", as others have said- catboi
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Ehhh, maybe different priorities led to different energy levels, but I don't think it's enough to override my suspicion of his posting so far.In post 946, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
@catboi: do you not think the other game could have caused that lack of vigor?In post 902, MURDERCAT wrote:Will catch up later, but I can finally say this.
I was in this game where town got banned for game throwing: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85633
It was heated and took literally all of my energy. I though it would end before this game started, but it turns out scum didn't know I was their traitor and they kept trying to elim me.
I am looking forward to mentally committing to this game.
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Why is it that when you say that it makes me doubt you the most?
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Why's it seems strange to you?In post 982, YyottaCat wrote:Infinity's attempt to push wagon on NM seems strange to me.
It feels more like a solid belief from you, gamma coming in with a weak driveby vote and a soft defense of murdercat is much weaker when that's the only content he's had since his replace inIn post 989, Infinity 324 wrote:Y'all are not disappointed in me? Did you already have low expectations? Lol- catboi
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my replace in, w/eIn post 998, Gamma Emerald wrote:Whose replace-in, might I ask?- catboi
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The manner in which you are expressing the read, and the confidence with which you are asserting it, looks like how scum who are aware of someone's alignment talks - in particular you mostly don't address the actual accusations against him, just say "he often gets wagoned as town" and say his play this game doesn't differ from another game, you go big on the assertion he is town rather than actually addressing the arguments made against him. Scum can get self-important about how their "read" of a townie is correct and emphasize how they are right, rather than whether they actually have good reason to hav that read. And to me, that looks exactly like what you are doing here.In post 1024, Gamma Emerald wrote:If you believe me about murdercat being a miselim why do you think I’m scum?
singling out NM's vote based on timing is particularly arbitrary, it's like you haven't bothered to actually look through the people voting/scumreading murder and are just picking someone based on wagon positioning. It doesn't strike me as someone who particularly cares about reading murdercat or the votes on him.- catboi
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In post 1027, PenguinPower wrote:- presupposes murderkitty town
- correlates to an unrelated game with
- a different playerlist
- a different design
- a different size
- different wagons and voting structure
- a different playerlist
- nm isn't sircakez
PP beating me to the punch here.In post 1028, PenguinPower wrote:like using a wagon from a different completed game as justification to vote a player in a different game is...
bad
That was what I was thinking might be happening a little while ago, but it starts to feel almost too unsubtle at this point for that to be the case - the manner of the defense is starting to feel like a TMI townread.In post 1030, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:galaxy brain theory - murdercat is bomb and gamma is goon trying to divert the wagon away? that would fit with gamma seeming “jester-y”, whoever said that.
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To be fair I didn't think infinity looked bad off it necessarily because his belief in his vote seems plausible, where gamma's reasoning for murder-town is poor and his assessment of the thread is lazy.In post 1159, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:what do you think about catboi saying it's too obvious and that Gamma/Infinity are actually TMIing town!murder?
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haaa, good one, I'll have to keep that in mind for the next time I'm scum~In post 1163, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
Perhaps a subtler way of going about it would be to accuse someone of TMI'ing them... :thonk:In post 1161, Dumb and Dumber wrote:What's a "more subtle" way of dismantling the wagon on their buddy?
-Dumbass
Meh. murdercat promised to do things and is about to hit prod range, and penguin looks more town recently which makes murder look worse. I guess I'm in favor of getting a flip and ending the day at this point.- catboi
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I don't really feel gut is strong enough to say 2 people arguing aren't both town. That feels a very arbitrary claim to make. Town argue with each other all the time and in this case, right now, it doesn't feel to me like either of them is arguing in a scummy way.In post 1181, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1169, catboi wrote:What leads you to that conclusion?In post 1174, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:
yeah why is that?In post 1168, Salsabil Faria wrote:I'm continuously getting this feeling thatDaenerys and DragonsvsDumb and Dumberis not TvT
- DaenerysMostly gut, don't go through all of your ISOs yet, find hard to read actually.
I don't hate 1183, something about the way gamma explains his thought processes there seems believable. I do not like 1187, though.- catboi
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This was exactly the post I was going to make, especially given the time constraints we are under.In post 1395, Green Crayons wrote:btw i don't think the D&D hydra exchange, which is eating up of pages of energy, is helpful.
if y'all are trying to make a case on the other hydra, please get to it. otherwise can we please move on?
I do not like murdercat's recent posting and am still okay with voting him.- catboi
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You can just say it's self-preservation you knowIn post 1428, Gamma Emerald wrote:VOTE: murdercat
I'd prefer to let him town up if he's town but he's not really trying atp, plus I have unresolved concerns of my own from early on.- catboi
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ಠ_ಠIn post 1469, Infinity 324 wrote:Idk- catboi
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I disliked his progression on murder after a reread.In post 1478, Green Crayons wrote:curious why infinity over Mena, who I think are the two initial candidates for today's elim (but not locked in to just these two for today)
The advancement of the murdercat wagon was so halting that I strongly doubt that, and the only real candidate for a hardbus there is dumb and dumber, who I find independently towny anyway.In post 1483, Menalque wrote:Idk my inclination is that scum hardbussed for cred to get into panic room, but that’s purely based on VCs and knowing my own alignment- catboi
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I thought the push was pretty halfhearted and he backed down rather easily in a way that made it seem like he didn't really want it to go through. However, looking back at him, all his pushes were fairly halfhearted so I don't know how much weight that holds. I wouldn't say it's clearing but not my first choice for a vote.In post 1536, Green Crayons wrote:
can you explain this? I just ISO'd MC and I don't think his push looks partner-y, I think it looks like a safe park voteIn post 1506, catboi wrote:FWIW, I still think murdercat's push on yyotta is potentially partner-y but points away from her being the bomb and so would vote elsewhere today.- catboi
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Menalque: just calm down and read the game.We're not going to quick-elim you, just read up and give your take on things, constantly arguing and spamming the thread without context isn't going to help.
I'm not going to entertain paranoia about Dumb and Dumber right now because Auro was the one who convinced me to move off your slot and onto murdercat (that, and gamma looking a bit like inflamed town in his argument with d&d)- catboi
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My thinking was he didn't really seem to push you in a manner that made it seem like he wanted you eliminated, you basically ignored him voting you then defended him when people started voting him, and he backed down for a bad reason, it felt like if you were town he saw as eliminatable he would have been more aggressive in his attack. But that's just a theory.In post 1624, YyottaCat wrote:Scum wouldn't want bomb to get eliminated because that would mean an early loss to them. How is his vote partner-y though? “Halfhearted” doesn't explain it very much.
Is that a strong enough case to vote you over? probably not, I prefer my infinity vote.- catboi
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Yeah, this game died hardcore, I was expecting more. In lieu of that, her is why I am voting infiity:
In post 348, Infinity 324 wrote:Murder what do you think of GC atp? I lean town on penguin for not trying to look townIn post 357, Infinity 324 wrote:
?In post 356, MURDERCAT wrote:I'm going to vote here instead though because NM.In post 410, Infinity 324 wrote:Bad vote
Murder's play always feels flat until he hits the towny button. That said, I'm leaning town on him atm.
Murder what are you seeing with yyotta?In post 622, Infinity 324 wrote:
I mean, she's likely forced to read lilith correctly anyway if scum, because it looks sus if she misreads her. Them being scum together is unlikely by stats, and I get the sense that lilith is relatively easy to read in general. Which is why it's odd that I seem to disagree with skitter on lilith's alignment atm. Like, being prickly/antagonistic about an SR on you and channeling that energy into aggressively questioning the person who SRs you is strongly indicative of towny OMGUS imo.In post 602, MURDERCAT wrote:
This is good context actually, thanks. I was confused about why everyone was accepting skitter's read on you when like, skitter might not be town?In post 539, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:@whoever is interested: skitter is within top 3 players onsite with ability to read me. probably top 1 if not close to it. she has crazy accuracy on me. therefore I will consider scumreading me a scumclaim, from her specifically.
I don't have a read on yyotta atmIn post 756, Infinity 324 wrote:I don't actually know murder's scumgame, I don't really think this is it though
Agree that GC's shadow read feels a bit more genuine than before, still leaning towards him being scumIn post 847, Infinity 324 wrote:I'm townreading both hydras, Dumb & Dumber to a lesser extent because auro is confusing and skitter is good at scum.
I've looked over GC's more recent posts and fitting them into a scum mindset keeps feeling like a stretch. Don't really know who scum is outside of that.
Murdercat show us your towny soulIn post 887, Infinity 324 wrote:Murder can you explain your read on the shadow/catboi slot?
Early on, infinity defends murder as a townlean but only has a couple weak interactions with him.In post 941, Infinity 324 wrote:This is the part where I really feel like murder is town but I can't explain it so I'm just gonna keep saying it hoping that does something
In post 954, Infinity 324 wrote:@lilith Not much has changed since I TRed skitter early, we mindmelded on GC a bit. It's not really a read I'm interested in re-evaluating until later on
Everyone is towny, let's wagon NM
VOTE: nmIn post 983, Infinity 324 wrote:Because uh
I have way too many townreads and I don't like the murdercat wagon and he's not a townread for obvious reasonsIn post 1069, Infinity 324 wrote:Lilith can you try to explain what's been actively scummy about murder's content as opposed to just underwhelming
I've seen flashes of a town!murder personality here and I normally soulread him as town when he's town so I'm also reluctant to elim him today
I am sorta mindmelding with gamma here because I don't want to elim murder but I also am not excited about anyone else, that's why I voted NM at least, yeah it's lazy but I want to trust my reads enough to say that me having a lot of TRs means the unreadable players are more likely scumIn post 1084, Infinity 324 wrote:
I read the post, it didn't really do anything for me. Most of it is like, murder is making lazy pushes and reasoning because he's kinda being lazy this game. If you're interested I can respond to it in more depthIn post 1074, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:@infinity
catboi’s post sums up most of it I think, have you read and responded to this?
Actually just looked at your ISO and you don’t seem to have mentioned this post at all, which is interesting because this is probably the biggest scumcase on murder so far, and you seemingly hard townread this slot before catboi replaced in. Is there a reason you haven’t responded to catboi on murder or engaged with catboi at all?
- DaenerysIn post 1095, Infinity 324 wrote:@lilith The argument isn't "murder could be lazy town"
It's "laziness isn't scum-indicative, especially for murder"
I just don't think any of the points against murder actually make him more likely to be scum, and he's felt towny to me so far
Fair point about not searching for other scum, I've been pretty demotivated and should probably be re-evaluating my TRs. But also, when I have reasons to TR a lot of the playerlist, yeah maybe players like NM and yyota, who I don't have reasons to TR, are more likely scum
When the push starts to move against murder, infinity tries to start a wagon on not_mafia instead while being dismissive of the arguments against murdercat.In post 1104, Infinity 324 wrote:I haven't gotten townvibes from NM, I'm (very) not confident I'll be able to read NM later
PEdit: I don't see it happen often, and I don't see why murder would think that would happen in this gamestate?
In post 1115, Infinity 324 wrote:Yeah I'm not arguing that murder is town for it
Small bit of equivocation, saying he's not arguing murdercat is town while defending him.In post 1119, Infinity 324 wrote:I was arguing against the fact that it's scummy for murder to not be here atm, I think it's NAI
In post 1409, Infinity 324 wrote:I prefer voting murder to gammaIn post 1411, Infinity 324 wrote:I have more solid reasons to TR gamma that I can go into tomorrow, it comes down to the fact that he doesn't care at all about how he's perceived
Murder I just got some townvibes, I could be wrong there igThen, abruptly, switches to being willing to vote murdercat for seemingly little reason when the wagon on him builds up.
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Honestly looking back at the end of day 1 makes the gamma-bomb/infinity-goon theory feel very plausible which might explain why infinity came into the day completely flat. I was going to say I like the infinity vote for strategic purposes because I had some slight uncertainty with regard to gamma, but I think I pretty much always vote menalque on an infinity goon flip.- catboi
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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Is that the extent of your reason for townreading gamma? because you claimed there were "more solid reasons" and this feels...not solid.In post 1664, Infinity 324 wrote:I TR'ed gamma because he wasn't trying to look town and because the emotion in defending murder felt very genuine, some of the logic he used didn't make a lot of sense but that isn't scummy. Scum!gamma has to have a bit more self-awareness there, and realize his defense isn't going to do much there, especially with no effective counterwagon.
In post 1411, Infinity 324 wrote:I have more solid reasons to TR gamma that I can go into tomorrow, it comes down to the fact that he doesn't care at all about how he's perceived
Murder I just got some townvibes, I could be wrong there ig- catboi
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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we get signal.In post 1771, Not_Mafia wrote:Someone set us up the bomb- catboi
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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Will "I wouldn't have bussed" work as a defense? >_>
Obviously not, but it's true. After the game I just got out of as scum, I really regretted voting my partner day 1 because I got trapped on hem and it bought me minimal cred. If you look at day 1, I was a critical vote in putting momentum on murdercat over gamma, if I had wanted to I could have kept on voting gamma and let the wagon build there instead, I think it was entirely possible, I'd have tried to rally my partners to vote town. I really think it's just as simple as neither murdercat or infinity wanting to vote gamma, and infinity shifting his read on murdercat only when gamma became the counterwagon to MC.
I also almost certainly don't kill PP and salsabil when you're a lot more likely to be wary of me as scum, even if PP was clearly town after the murdercat flip.
I legitimately assumed infinity had given up as scum pushed to the brink (didn't see the hammer), and went, "okay, he's guaranteed scum, might as well go for the assumed partner here because they're probably bomb". I hadn't seen the hammer from n_m. Don't know why I'd bother with such a maneuver as scum.In post 1829, Dumb and Dumber wrote:In post 1784, catboi wrote:I thought he was at E-1 but effectively scumclaimed so we could just move down the line to menalque anyway
These seem pretty weird for when he thought Infinity420 was at E-1In post 1792, catboi wrote:loool I somehow missed the entire end of page 70, whoops
-Dumbass- catboi
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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Or if they're nightkilled. I guess then there are no more recruits? That seems more scumsided than I thought.In post 1854, Green Crayons wrote:weird if whoever is picked to be neighborized is eliminated, regardless of when it goes into effect. then there would be no recruiter?- catboi
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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Well, strictly speaking, the original recruit is still conftown but there's 0 reason to talk about that out in the openIn post 1866, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:the neighborhood doesn’t matter anymore, we just need to find the bomb and kill them.- catboi
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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I don't know what you're expecting, exactly? I gave you time yesterday, we wagoned infinity instead, today you just talk about how your reads probably aren't that useful, you're not really giving us anything to work withIn post 1881, Menalque wrote:I’m slightly irritated by the lack of desire to sort my slot via actually sorting me vs my predecessor but equally I understand it I guess
And it's not like we can really ignore the preponderance of evidence from flipped scum that point toward your slot - it's not impossible we're being misled but I think it's more probable that scum just sort of faceplanted on day 1 this game and that's why we are where we are, I would literally never clear you at this point, that's just how it goes- catboi
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catboi Jack of All Trades
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In post 1912, Dumb and Dumber wrote:Not mafia, we were ~95% confident on that
yeah lolIn post 1915, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
Ic, not n1 recruit to clarifyIn post 1912, Dumb and Dumber wrote:Not mafia, we were ~95% confident on that - catboi
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