electoral college mafia (now its done watch it go)

[MathBlade]

So really late for me but I got a gist and I think it’s either
Moz + Tsu or Auro

Really sleepy and kinda skimmed twice but was super exhausted and didn’t have time for a fully read and had a hard time keeping track of some stuff and by the time I thought I would mosey up to the thread again it sorta just went nowhere. So the above is a mix of skim and gut. Wanna see where things go.

[MathBlade]

Scum in:
Almost
Auro
Bugspary
T3
Len
Randy

Can you talk about Almost50 read? I am having trouble finding memorable posts from him and when he’s not memorable he has a greater chance of being scum.

Is that your feeling?

[MathBlade]

auro is lockscum

could be why Xtotm died. Fits.

I don’t think it does for reasons I can’t say. It might be possible. Gonna have to thorough read Xtom.

Any particular reason you’re not talking about the scum read at the top of your list?

[MathBlade]

<3 mastina

I think if anything this here.

I think this locks Mastina as a mason imho.

Makes sense with the jail keeper that flipped d1.

Not sure why Mastina mason isn’t dead though assuming she is town.

[MathBlade]

Anyone town in group 2 PLEAS BE CAREFUL HOW YOU VOTE/DONT VOTE. Potentially most scum in group two, plus Len could quick hammer.
I'm assuming most/all my group are town.

Can you go into this at all?

Or why you’re blatantly ignoring my posts and questions to you?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: moxamis

Moz ? Tsu? A50?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

[MathBlade]

I am not sure I like those responses and something being missing makes moz less likely to be scum.

Hey Mastina why aren’t you dead?

[MathBlade]

Xtoxm has been killed in the night! they were a

vanilla townie

!

@Whoever did this: I will personally see to it that your eyeballs are shoved up your ass. (and you better believe I will)

What are your reads?

[MathBlade]

Scum in:

Almost

Auro

Bugspary

T3

Len

Randy

Actually it's bugs/T3/Vax/OutWorldER, but thanks for considering me.

Talk with me about why you think it’s that solve please?

[MathBlade]

So...

WAIT! So, who did you replace again? Cuz the mod doesn't have your name in the groups for today.

Randy Savage

[MathBlade]

Day 3 Starts!

Spoiler:

vote count 3.0

GROUP 1

not voting (7):

Vaxkiller, OutWorldER, Flea the Magician, Tsutsu, mozamis, tris, Anya

GROUP 2

not voting (7):

mastina, Almost50, bugspray, MathBlade, T3, Auro, Gypyx

GROUP 3

not voting (1):

lendunistus

with 15 alive, it takes 8 to punch someone a single time. day 2 starts now and ends march 20th at 23:00 central US time; in (expired on 2021-04-01 19:45:00)

There you go

mod notes

• thread unlocked

[/area]

[MathBlade]

Scum in:

Almost

Auro

Bugspary

T3

Len

Randy

Actually it's bugs/T3/Vax/OutWorldER, but thanks for considering me.

Talk with me about why you think it’s that solve please?

Do people like just not answering my questions or something?

[MathBlade]

I kinda think most of the scum are in group 1 which seems counter to the current assumption so I wanna see why.

[MathBlade]

Why are you making the assumptions you have above?

[MathBlade]

Day 2 Starts!

Spoiler: death

vote count 2.0

GROUP 1

not voting (13):

Xtoxm, Vaxkiller, mastina, Almost50, bugspray, Flea the Magician, lendunistus, Tsutsu, Randy Savage, T3, Gypyx, mozamis, VFP

GROUP 2

not voting (2):

Auro, tris

GROUP 3

not voting (1):

Anya

GROUP 4

not voting (1):

OutWorldER

with 17 alive, it takes 9 to craft a perfectly compelling argument that someone should retire for the day. day 2 starts now and ends march 20th at 23:00 central US time; in (expired on 2021-03-25 06:20:00)

mod notes

• thread unlocked

[/area]

This is the grouping for group two.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler:

d1 final vote count

GROUP 1

flow trap (5):

tris, Anya, VFP, Xtoxm, Almost50

VFP (1):

Gypyx

Auro (1):

Tsutsu

not voting (1):

Auro

GROUP 2

Randy Savage (1):

mastina

flow trap (1):

bugspray

not voting (1):

Randy Savage

GROUP 3

flow trap (2):

mozamis, Momrangal

not voting (1):

Vaxkiller

GROUP 4

flow trap (1):

OutWorldER

VFP (1):

flow trap

not voting (1):

lendunistus

GROUP 5

mozamis (1):

Flea the Magician

GROUP 6

flow trap (1):

T3

with 12 votes allocated, flow trap reaches majority.

D1 >> flow trap has tris,Anya,VFP,Xtom,A50,bugspray, outworlder, and T3

[MathBlade]

My theory was that all prs are mailmen.

Random post here.
I disagree I don’t think that’s the case.
I think if this were true someone would have been claiming mail each day.
Has someone claimed receiving mail? I don’t remember this in my skim but maybe I missed it.

[MathBlade]

Why are you making the assumptions you have above?

1- Because I can
2- Because otherwise I'd have nothing to use but "gut" and "feelings" and you know how I hate those for scumhunting tools

I think there’s much better assumptions that can be made starting from knowledge rather than assumptions though.

Eg Yesterday was Mozamis V VFP.

This means either Mozamis is scum or there is scum in the town block because nothing else really happened.

How does your VCA change if Mozamis is scum?
If Mozamis is town?

[MathBlade]

This is the grouping for group two.

You mean DAY TWO. Now, check that again. OBVIOULSY the 4 not in G1 are treestumps. G1 completely controls the elimination and these 4 do not influence the wagon in the least. It makes no sense to have more than 1 scum treestumped (tips off the scales towards town unnaturally, because the scum team is still alive in full, i.e. would be unfair). It makes no sense to have all 4 scums in the group of 13 either because that would be giving Scum more weight that they actually have (they should be 4 in 17, so why treestump 4 townies and nake them 4 on 13?)

So, logically (which this game isn't) the correct choice is 3 in 13 and 1 treestump in 4 (the exact NORMAL distribution)

In that I see your argument but disagree with it.

In politics there’s something known as Gerrymandering.
It’s the idea that all of a certain group are combined together for the purposes of limiting its power.
Until we see a scum flip somewhere that supports your theory I don’t think that’s a valid assumption to make.
Especially since we just lost a jailkeeper that grouping could have been made to rebalance and give town a good shot and scum outside.

Until we get in schadd’s head and figure out why I think sticking to play and facts is better.

[MathBlade]

How does your VCA change if Mozamis is scum?
If Mozamis is town?

I already established why I though he was Town.

IF he is scum though, I haven't done the work yet.

Also, you don't really want to rely on MY VCA. I do strange stuff and have no solid rules for it. It's unauthentic at best.

I am not using it to rely on it.
I am using it to sort you and in a weird way mozamis.

[MathBlade]

Until we see a scum flip somewhere that supports your theory I don’t think that’s a valid assumption to make.

You won't get "a scum flip somewhere that supports your theory" unless you do eliminate in my pool though.

Correct. It’s more your theory is one that’s really unfalsifiable and I hate those.
We could elim everyone off group to see if you’re right but I don’t think that’s smart strategically.
Having a foundation that’s an unfalsifiable assumption is bad.

[MathBlade]

My theory was that all prs are mailmen.

Random post here.
I disagree I don’t think that’s the case.
I think if this were true someone would have been claiming mail each day.
Has someone claimed receiving mail? I don’t remember this in my skim but maybe I missed it.

Anya claimed mailman, mastina got a message not from either of them, Mom was also a mailman

Hmmm I will have to look at Anya’s ISO for that. Did Anya claim it under duress?
Mom was a mailman but only to who she jailed if I follow the flip correctly. (Btw hi mom I miss you!)
I don’t think everyone is a mailman though.
That would be weird and hard to keep track of.

[MathBlade]

I am using it to sort you

You don't need to. You're either Town and should take it on faith that I am, or you're scum and

know

that I'm Town. My theory assumes you're Town (actually it doesn't. It

leads to the conclusion

that you are, based on other assumptions). Do you disagree??

Incorrect methods can get correct results.

I obviously do not disagree with the conclusion that I am town I just wanna make sure I am not starting with flawed assumptions.

[MathBlade]

Correct. It’s more your theory is one that’s really unfalsifiable and I hate those.
We could elim everyone off group to see if you’re right but I don’t think that’s smart strategically.
Having a foundation that’s an unfalsifiable assumption is bad.

On contrary, it only takes ONE bad result to prove it wrong. You should support my elimination pool until we get a green flip in it. If one flips green THEN I'm proven wrong.

In other words; you do get a scum flip or prove me wrong TODAY. It's not THAT bad if you look at the other options.

Uhm I don’t see how?

We would need 2+ scum in treestumps or none to invalidate your claim of 1 scum in three stumps.
Can you try again in a different way?

[MathBlade]

For the record her dying message to me (at least I am assuming it was from her) said that you were town. <3

Oh how interesting.
VOTE: Mastina
She targeted me last night

Well, last night, I was targeted by a mailman. They said they were a town odd-night combined mailman alien, that I was both roleblocked and rolestopped. (They apologized for blocking my actions, which is unfortunate, because I did use an action last night--ironically enough, *I* targeted *you*.) They then said they didn't have much more to say, other than townreading you, thinking I am town, and wanting thoughts on Auro; they gave me a code word to confirm it was from them. They also specified a way beyond the code word to reveal to me.

But I assumed it was from Momrangal doing a gambit, that she lied about being odd-night alien with her really being a jailkeeper and that the message originated from her.

I suppose my assumption could've been wrong, but I very much did receive a message with the above as the contents of it and it at least somewhat checks out since I know for a fact that my action on you failed.

Did a search for mailman to try to find Anya’s claim.

I still don’t find it and if someone could be a doll and help me out that would be awesome.

Mastina v Tsu seems to be a thing

It’s likely with the mason claim Mom visited Mastina and blocked her
Did we find out why Tsu thought Mom visited them?

[MathBlade]

Correct. It’s more your theory is one that’s really unfalsifiable and I hate those.
We could elim everyone off group to see if you’re right but I don’t think that’s smart strategically.
Having a foundation that’s an unfalsifiable assumption is bad.

On contrary, it only takes ONE bad result to prove it wrong. You should support my elimination pool until we get a green flip in it. If one flips green THEN I'm proven wrong.

In other words; you do get a scum flip or prove me wrong TODAY. It's not THAT bad if you look at the other options.

Uhm I don’t see how?

We would need 2+ scum in treestumps or none to invalidate your claim of 1 scum in the tree stumps.
Can you try again in a different way?

Ebwop autocorrect you suck

[MathBlade]

Also mason + active power is rare.

I had that with Mom but I am not so sure it happens twice with this setup.

Mastina can you please explain?

[MathBlade]

Noraa isn’t in this game unless in a hydra? Alt?

Can you clarify?

[MathBlade]

Nevermind I can’t read derp

[MathBlade]

<3 mastina

I think if anything this here.

I think this locks Mastina as a mason imho.

Makes sense with the jail keeper that flipped d1.

Not sure why Mastina mason isn’t dead though assuming she is town.

huh?? how does a post by a vt imply that mastina is mason?

One theory I have is that xtomx believed Mastina was a mason and trying to draw the NK with that post which Xtomx seemed to do. The other is that Xtom was killed for his reads.

[MathBlade]

@math: the reason t3 said "My theory was that all prs are mailmen." was because yesterday, he said he had a setup spec reason to believe that vfp's claim of simple doctor was wrong. he obviously doesn't believe in that theory anymore

I am gonna sit back a bit.

Can someone consolidate claims?

Anya mailmen
Mastina mason

It’s just so much easier when I don’t have to hunt for everything.

[MathBlade]

I kinda wanna see Tsu Mastina and Anya post,

I think there’s potential for 1v1s
And I want to give A50 another shot at his theory.

[MathBlade]

@math: the reason t3 said "My theory was that all prs are mailmen." was because yesterday, he said he had a setup spec reason to believe that vfp's claim of simple doctor was wrong. he obviously doesn't believe in that theory anymore

I am gonna sit back a bit.

Can someone consolidate claims?

Anya mailmen
Mastina mason

It’s just so much easier when I don’t have to hunt for everything.

anya was only an implied claim. and with anya, it's hard to know if that was serious.
mastina claimed mason right at the start. who knows if that's serious

There’s something in particular I am looking for from Mastina, Anya, and Tsu

Y’all have known me long enough I don’t shut up easily so I want to see how they respond to the day open.

[MathBlade]

Mastina I am not asking you to claim I am asking you to verify what you’ve said with a yes no simple answer or with as few words as possible.

You said you are a mason. Is this correct? Yes or No.
You said you targeted someone with a power. Is this correct? Yes or No.
You said you received a letter. Is this correct? If so yes or no and what did it contain and who from?
And lastly have you watched any you tube or musicals recently?

I know I am being stubborn but I am asking for a reason.

[MathBlade]

Mastina can you please explain?

Can? Yes.
Will? No.

I have a visiting power; I am conftown; I will say no more than that and if scum wanna kill me N3 and run the risk of it failing due to the oddnight alien that's their prerogative.

(Also, I forgot to do this before, meant to do this in my first post of the day, I am rather bad at it, BUT: I am giving you similar leeway to Gypyx's game, as in, I was scumreading your predecessor and am giving you some amount of space. But this game you definitely aren't feeling as immediately town to me as you did that game, will say that.)

Funny because this should be EXACTLY like that game to you.

But I get prior games can be hard to keep track of.

But at some point I wonder you have to be scum.

[MathBlade]

You said you are a mason. Is this correct? Yes or No.

This is not a question that I see any protown reason to answer at this time.

You said you targeted someone with a power. Is this correct? Yes or No.

Yes, but I know for a fact that N1, I was roleblocked. Given that I know I was roleblocked N1 and that I received a message from someone saying they're an odd-night Alien who targeted me N1, and that Aliens roleblock their target, this checks out.

You said you received a letter. Is this correct? If so yes or no and what did it contain and who from?

I did receive a letter N1. I have stated the contents of the letter. It was NOT from Momrangal; I don't see reason to specify further, given that the sender of the message is, explicitly, a very strong power role whose claim I can at least half-verify. (They claimed to target me with an action that blocks me, I was blocked N1, so at the very least the roleblocking half of the oddnight alien claim is confirmed.)

And lastly have you watched any you tube or musicals recently?

No, I have not.

I think you or this alien are scum due to the one too many PRs problem.

[MathBlade]

Quote me where you said what they said again please Mastina.

[MathBlade]

hey everyone love you

Can you help me out and show me where you claimed mailman?

[MathBlade]

what how did you know i was a mailman?

It was said earlier you did.

I am not a mafia rolecop it was suggested you were.

I am much more of a tunnelly player and tend to get single track or double tracked on a person.

[MathBlade]

wait what how did they figure out i was a mafia rolecop?

...I mean that works lol

It was suggested earlier you were mailman and someone said you claimed mailman and I couldn’t find where.

I mean that went better than expected lol

Time to find who is scum with Anya then

[MathBlade]

Good luck with that Anya. (Teasing voice)

Gonna continue and figure out who is scum with you now.

[MathBlade]

Anya said she sent a message to someone earlier hich is why mailman.

All I asked for is where I was having trouble finding it.

The fact Anya didn’t want to talk about what is in thread is troubling.

[MathBlade]

Anya said she sent a message to someone earlier hich is why mailman.

Still don’t see where she said that.

Help a brother out.

[MathBlade]

this bunny is unbelievable

check what i sent you last night which should prove my innocence

There’s this but that doesn’t say message.

[MathBlade]

ok i'll claim i dunno exactly what it does but i'm a loyal messenger

targeted randy savage last night with 'hi wolf'

did you get that?

I did not get a message last night but I am a two shot tracker.

I know a player who didn’t do the kill.

I do not believe you are a loyal messenger at all.

[MathBlade]

So really late for me but I got a gist and I think it’s either
Moz + Tsu or Auro

Really sleepy and kinda skimmed twice but was super exhausted and didn’t have time for a fully read and had a hard time keeping

track

of some stuff and by the time I thought I would mosey up to the thread again it

sorta just went nowhere

. So the above is a mix of skim and gut. Wanna see where things go.

You can push this but you lose.

I told Mastina this was exactly like last game where I had crumbed in my first post.

The YouTube question was another hint.

The way she disappeared is bad.

VOTE: Anya

This just got even easier

[MathBlade]

The way I foresee this is either
A> Scum bus Anya (most likely)
B> I am miselimmed and in twilight I say who didn’t do the kill so that can impact reads.

It’s pretty obvious imho Anya is caught scum here but I mean Anya + likely Mastina isn’t bad for my miselim if y’all are silly.

[MathBlade]

so basically, Anya created a fake message that she presented as something she actually said

and my quote is the actual message she made in post 414

pedit : well, idk, i know it's something i've thought seriously about doing in the past and like, peoples don't *usually* check if quotes are real ya know

Looking at Out’s ISO out said they got Mom’s message

Sometimes the simplest answer is right.

Anya is scum and so is Mastina.

[MathBlade]

i'm just a vanilla townie lol

Yeah I don’t buy it and if you are then too bad.

Making me out I am a PR while I am hunting Mastina for being a PR in a game with too many PRs I don’t buy you as VT saying you sent something that should prove your innocence.

I want your flip and if you flip red elim Mastina unless her mason partner if any outs and then consider if they could be scum together.

[MathBlade]

At the end of the day I will announce who couldn’t have killed last night. They could still be scum but imho I think by play and crumb it’s obvious.

I am probably dead tonight so glad I didn’t get too invested.

[MathBlade]

also why is math even claiming if he thinks i'm obviously wolf

Because I get two scum for the price of my elim if I am miselimmed.

That’s worth more than my role.

Anya Mastina Auro is my solve atm.

It’s also the thing you do when someone claims they have a guilty on you (in this case it’s not because I am town) because the elim is between me and you. The chances of actually doing anything with my role approach zero and it’s better to get the scum we have known which is you.

[MathBlade]

i'm just a vanilla townie lol

OK, so based on your ISO + this recent stunt I want you limmed AND blacklisted.

(Warning moon logic)
I am thinking Anya might just be a loyal messenger but for scum.

If she was a town loyal messenger then she would want out’s elimination and be screaming so since out never (unless I missed it) claimed to get the thing that would supposedly prove her innocence.

I think scum have a traitor and Anya is a loyal messenger but for scum to find a traitor.
(End moon logic)

Regardless of the right/wrongness of the above I think Anya is scum and I don’t think she posts what she does as VT and if she does then wow.

[MathBlade]

schadd they're bullying me

How am I bullying you?
I have dealt with bullying most of my life.
I assure you if I am harming you let me know how so I stop.
Something like bullying is nothing to joke about.

[MathBlade]

Something called "sleep" happens

Also something knowing in nerd circles as Cyberpunk Red happens too... and a lack of caffine..

Oooh a fellow cyberpunk lover tell me more!

Is this how one does the lighten up?

Do I need to find some helium?

[MathBlade]

Why the early claim, Math?

Did you not read the thread?

Anya claimed loyal messenger and that they sent me a message and since I didn’t post receiving a message, that’s in effect claiming a “guilty” on me.

Since such a guilty is impossible I am forced to claim at that point so that way if I am mis elimmed y’all elim Anya or you see that I am town and elim Anya first.

The day is pretty much me vs Anya and I think scum Anya expected me to be VT and not be able to defend myself.

[MathBlade]

Now that I am outed as a PR masons or another targeting role or whatever Mastina is/claims to be doesn’t make sense.

[MathBlade]

For the record her dying message to me (at least I am assuming it was from her) said that you were town. <3

Oh how interesting.
VOTE: Mastina
She targeted me last night

How exactly did Mastina both be blocked and target tsu with an action?

That doesn’t make sense.

[MathBlade]

Fine I will try another angle later.

Was just trying to provide content before being killed tonight.

[MathBlade]

I mean, just claiming you haven't received a message should have been enough for now, no?

at you being scummy, Anya

No. A loyal messenger is one whose message gets sent only to a person of the same alignment.

This leaves me with two options
A> Tell the truth and claim so people see Anya is scum
Or
B> Lie if I townread Anya.

There is no option C like tell the truth and not claim, because the proper play would be to elim me, then I have to claim before I die the person who did not kill last night.

As soon as Anya fake claimed, I was forced to claim.

With this PR stack I have a hard time believing Mastina town so I was pressuring her to see what could be found out. I think Anya pushing me here is not a coincidence.

It’s not proof no but I think it’s a gut feeling something is wrong there. And Mastina + Auro makes sense for reasons I can’t explain yet.

[MathBlade]

I think that’s where you and I differ.

Yes, simply saying I didn’t get it would be enough for discussion but as soon as Anya did that it’s always a 1v1.

I just think ahead and I would be claiming in all possible worlds.
If you believe me and elim Anya I have to claim before EoD so you all know player X didn’t do the kill so that way when combined/backtracked you may be able to inno or guilty them later.
If you didn’t I would have to full claim at e - 1 anyway.

It’s a it was gonna happen so make it best as I could. I think strategically and me claiming gives you more to work with.

[MathBlade]

and I second A50s blacklist request.

why?

is it making light of bullying? that's me saying i was joking and obviously wasn't feeling bullied

I don’t think you’re town but it’s more if you’re town this is extremely bad play.

The rest of this paragraph assumes you are town:
A> You fake claim a PR multiple times in a game.
A1> Something that sends you innocence earlier on
A2> Loyal messenger when it’s clearly fake.

B> You use that fake claim to then fake a check on me. This sort of arrogance is bad and is explained on several wikis. If you’re that sure someone is scum without a moderator check you should either a) look at why you feel that way and if you can explain it. If you can’t then likely you’re tunnelled. If you can then go for it. Your certainly level should match your ability to explain. If you have to “fake a guilty” that will do more harm than good for the long term health of the specific day/game. People will PR spec/hunt off it.

C> Rather than readjusting and unvoting and voting anyone else after me outing PR you opt to call me a bully when I haven’t done anything to merit that. Yes some of my posts were ugly and blatantly PR hunting but the difference was I had a reason. A vote on me and then pushing me for PR hunting good.

The fake claim and bullying comments really cross a line if you’re town.

I really don’t think you are.

[MathBlade]

So really late for me but I got a gist and I think it’s either
Moz + Tsu or Auro

Really sleepy and kinda skimmed twice but was super exhausted and didn’t have time for a fully read and had a hard time keeping track of some stuff and by the time I thought I would

mosey up to the thread again

it

sorta just went nowhere

. So the above is a mix of skim and gut. Wanna see where things go.

Mozamis went no where just like my push of him.
My goal was to see if he was scum or not due to the prior day being him + VFP wagons.
I think Moz is town based on that open but something still pings me weird.
Null read but mechanically more likely town.

I may be claiming this a tad early but I can’t count votes easy with this system.

[MathBlade]

Alright... I really don't see Anya playing like this as town.

I kinda think T3 is scum too

Reads list best guess:
{Mastina,Auro,T3, Tsu } << High probability
{{Lurkers}}
{Flea} << Gut probably wrong here but see if still a game
{Moz} << Can’t shake my gut scum but probably town mechanically
{Everyone else}

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Anya
If this flips scum or town I would also want to go fo bugsray tomorrow. Mathblade is probably town.

Why bugspray?

[MathBlade]

aPretty sure lend has hammer here.

ppedit: I sr bugspray for bwing and tone at this point.

Bwing? What does that mean?

[MathBlade]

... did I miss a memo where we TSR peeps now?

What’s TSR?

And I would say when I likely die tonight look back at Anya’s play with her almost inevitable scum flip at this point. I think her trying to fake a guilty backfired when I outed myself.

[MathBlade]

i'm from MU

I know MU play is different but not that different from MS.

I am overdue for a random pop in game.

I hope this doesn’t sour you on MS.

[MathBlade]

Anya says she messaged OWER and mathblade.

I dont understand this fake claim as scum? WHy on earth would you claim this when you know, not one, BUT TWO people will deny this later on?
Doesn't make sense.
On the other hand, her "cant confirm or deny i am scum is effing weird lol
Can we hold off eliminating for a bit as we think it through.
Town are in a really bad position atm We really need to get this one right.

Here’s the problem with that.

There’s absolutely nothing she can say that is trust worthy.
Earlier on she claimed to send a loyal message to Outer.
Outer never claimed to get it and she never tunnels Outer.

this bunny is unbelievable

check what i sent you last night which should prove my innocence

mastina
lend
Randy
flow trap

are your wolves

If we treat this in the best light possible and that she is the messenger here then she can’t be a loyal and town one or she would be including Outer in the wolves.

Therefore she’s had multiple days either
A> contriving a fake claim as town
Or B> Contriving a fake claim as town

What words could be said to explain for lying for in essence from before I came into the game?

It’s a long deliberate lie.

The simple answer is to elim Anya.

It’s up to her to provide the explanation if there is a good one and she just isn’t.

[MathBlade]

if town thn we know 2 scum.

howww

Anya says she messaged OWER and mathblade. They both claim to have not received messages.

Technically in that case we would elim OWER first then myself if OWER flipped red as scum blocking Anya that night would make no sense and I am town.

Just the odds of Anya being town here are so so slim. Like fake claiming after days of stuff.

I don’t have enough moons to even consider it.

[MathBlade]

The fact you suggest not eliminating Anya today is very very sus.

Like man I wish I was a cop sus moz.

[MathBlade]

you'll forgive us all if we don't just agree with your slot, havign just replaced into SLOT WHO PREVIOUSLY HAD CONTRIBUTED NOTHING.
god sorry caps.
i'm gonna eat soem cake and watch the sopranos now.
but i'll try and catch up later on.
meanwjhle please don't elim. anya yet.
need to hear more from her.
i still dont get her motivation for the fake claim as scum when you know TWO people will deny t??!!
I would say she was town apart from that EFFING BIZZARE "cant confirm or deny i am scum" WHO AS TOWN SAYS that lol

I agree.

You should evaluate me.

The motivation part could have been a failed gambit. She expected me to be a VT and an easy miselim then she could claim blocked down the line.

I know for a fact I wasn’t jailkept because it said you went no where.

You’d just have a hard time arguing I am scum when my first post contains my role and my actions in it.

The motivations may be more of an epic play which MU is more known for and where my hidden alter ego is a bit more flexible in play and people don’t know it’s me so it doesn’t have the math stigma.

And hi. I don’t remember who you are.

And yes site flakes happen.

But more realistically the slot is scum or at minimum playing to a not town wincondition. Scum is the only not town place.

Your question itself can also be reversed as well
“If she is town what motivation does she have to fake claim and maintain it for 2+ days?”

I can’t think of one.

The question itself is manipulative.

The more probable answer is Anya is scum.

Sure it’s POSSIBLE she is town and she got blocked/jailkept last night and Outer is scum or the same scenario. I think soon as she folded and said she was VT the simple thing is she is lying and has been all game.

[MathBlade]

Not sure why Mastina mason isn’t dead though assuming she is town.

Yes, that worries me.
Also, Mastina hasn't suspected me all game, which worries me as well. Most people do. I tend to wind people up and suspect everyone and slag everyone off at some point. (Typing that out it's becoming clearer why I get mislynhed so much lol) Mastina has never once defended themselves from my criticisms or noted them. Just "Moz town" from Mastina.
Only reason I let Mastina off was her apparent RL probs. Obv. if she IS townthen deep apologies for suspecting you. But yeah...she worries me.

The other part that worries me is let’s assume Mastina is Mason + PR since she said she sent out some targeting action.

Then someone should be able to vouch for her as a mason partner. With the limited amount of people left. The mason partner should be discussing with Mastina when to claim.

Mastina never lies about RL.

However having RL is NAI. She could scum or town for it.

She just needs to have an explanation.

[MathBlade]

No offense but I think your pool sucks seeing it written out and I want you in the pool and what seems to be a defense of Anya (even though you say it’s not). I know you didn’t do the kill that doesn’t mean you aren’t scum.

Just this page has been pretty bad from you combined with VFP v you yesterday moving to VFP you’re still pretty sus.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: moxamis

Moz ? Tsu? A50?

oi?!

Why?

As I said earlier I was sorting you. Later on I Unvote you with something missing.

That something was you didn’t kill Xtom

[MathBlade]

Actually it's bugs/T3/Vax/OutWorldER, but thanks for considering me.

well,thanks for clearing those guys lol

Actually if a50 is scum of which I am thinking different alignment than you
Then rule of three probably applies.

[MathBlade]

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not saying we shouldn't elim. her. I am saying we need to be careful. Scum are in a very strong position and they can potentially ram through a few quick lynches and win the game.
I have played in Large Normals before like this and scum are so powerful right now. They are more than capable of running some strong gambits themselves.

Scum trying to bumrush elims is not going to go well for them, I dont get your paranoia.

As it stands rn, lend is possibly the strongest player today mechanically as they hold the power of life and death over anyone the groups decide to sent home.
4 scum, 3 groups, no group can solo banish today.

Yes this is a bastard game, yes balance is something that has been openly declared to placed in the void. Scum are still in a minority here and they absoutely cannot "ram through a few quick yeets" without compromising their positions.



Like this is giving me fake paranoia vibe at this point -.-;

+1 I like this.

Flea can be town

[MathBlade]

Don't you think we'd spot the speedwagon?

yep, ok i get it well done!a speed wagon is unlikely. But we WERE at the stage of the game where some caution is necessary. We are in the shit if scum get another mislynch, is all i'm saying.
You keep on talking about that, and I'll get back to solving the game
nOW THAT aNYA AND aLMOST HAVE PUT NOOSES round their necks, probably less caution is needed.
I cant be arsed with caps. Presentation is secondary to content.
we do need to hear from Anya though.
Less so from Almost, who is 99per cent scum.

Yes. I agree if Anya is town we are in deep shit we do our best and write this off as a lesson of what not to do as town and learn from it. I just don’t think that’s likely.

This “let’s be cautious” while not explaining anything in how you’re being cautious looks like begging not to elim a buddy.

[MathBlade]

That was before Anya’s claim/fake claim/what not.

You were in lurkers but now you’re memorable you’re in everyone else.

[MathBlade]

I think almost is town personally. Anya is problematic but I think very likely town. Flea is still scum but I'm getting more and more unsure of that for redacted reasons.

This isn’t spamming it’s content. Why do you say spammy?

And why are you saying Anya is town?

[MathBlade]

Anya Mozamis Tsu Mastina?

Has a nice ring but one or two maybe wrong.

[MathBlade]

Why do you believe Anya is town, Tsu?

I don't like the wagon. if Anya is scum, then scum are bussing here and that's y I hate the wagon. if Anya is town, scum are probably piled on rn.

Then you’re saying scum are on it regardless of Anya’s alignment?

I find that hard to believe. I think if Anya was town she’d have been hammered right now. There’s too much resistance for this to be a miselimination.

[MathBlade]

Anya Mozamis Tsu Mastina?

Has a nice ring but one or two maybe wrong.

Didn't Mastina say she'd be confirmable or something to that effect?

Then far as I am concerned she needs to.

Mastina almost never lies and even less as town.

So the fact she would be a PR here and her opening responses leave me confused.

I really think if she is considering how many miselims there have been she needs to sooner rather than later assuming I am wrong and she is town.

[MathBlade]

Then you’re saying scum are on it regardless of Anya’s alignment?

yeah.

Then your point about Anya being town because of your belief scum are in it is incorrect.

This is pretty straightforward here.

Anya is caught scum who quit posting.

I made several reachouts in case I was wrong and she didn’t specify any reads at all.

I mean resistance to the Anya wagon pretty much puts you in my PoE it’s that bad.

[MathBlade]

If scum want to bus why should we protest though

I think scum piling on town is more common than scum piling on scum so I am assuming it is the former for now.

This is also gambler’s fallacy.

[MathBlade]

i'm not posting or reading this game anymore

it makes me feel genuinely terrible

any if you are town, come back we need you! I know this game can be harsh, but I find normally if you just take like a day off, or four or five hours off, it passes!
Obv if you are scum than eff off

@Math = Anya leaving is NAI. Flow did that earlier this game and we all thought he was scum replacing out. No, he was town. Town can replace out, annoyed, as can scum.
My gut is saying we shouldnt lynch Anya. In what world does scum say "I'm a mafia rolecop" lol
If we lynch Anya, we are purely going off MATHh's theory, which could be right, could be wrong. It's a world of WIFOM.
We should foucus on likely scum like Auro or Almost.
tHO NOW ALSO PARANOID about Math lol
He looks really effing town, but why deny getting a message from anya?
To confirm: Math, you deny getting any message from Anya?
I guess could be a roleblocker?

Yes I have and continue to deny getting a message.
Anya leaving is NAI.

And it is not a “theory” Anya is scum. It’s Anya is scum or she gamethrew.
Before I was in the game, she claimed to send something to outer that would proclaim her innocence.
Then today she says she is a loyal messenger.
I claim my results which I crumbed from the start of my play.
These are facts not wine.
In what world does town fake claim for two days straight?
Anya’s play is not town play.
You just took the same argument I already destroyed earlier and repeated it.

[MathBlade]

You said you are a mason. Is this correct? Yes or No.

This is not a question that I see any protown reason to answer at this time.

You said you targeted someone with a power. Is this correct? Yes or No.

Yes, but I know for a fact that N1, I was roleblocked. Given that I know I was roleblocked N1 and that I received a message from someone saying they're an odd-night Alien who targeted me N1, and that Aliens roleblock their target, this checks out.

You said you received a letter. Is this correct? If so yes or no and what did it contain and who from?

I did receive a letter N1. I have stated the contents of the letter. It was NOT from Momrangal; I don't see reason to specify further, given that the sender of the message is, explicitly, a very strong power role whose claim I can at least half-verify. (They claimed to target me with an action that blocks me, I was blocked N1, so at the very least the roleblocking half of the oddnight alien claim is confirmed.)

And lastly have you watched any you tube or musicals recently?

No, I have not.

I think you or this alien are scum due to the one too many PRs problem.

why specifically those two?

Because those are the other two claimed PRs and there’s a too many claimed PRs problem.

[MathBlade]

i'm just a vanilla townie lol

OK, so based on your ISO + this recent stunt I want you limmed AND blacklisted.

(Warning moon logic)
I am thinking Anya might just be a loyal messenger but for scum.

If she was a town loyal messenger then she would want out’s elimination and be screaming so since out never (unless I missed it) claimed to get the thing that would supposedly prove her innocence.

I think scum have a traitor and Anya is a loyal messenger but for scum to find a traitor.
(End moon logic)

Regardless of the right/wrongness of the above I think Anya is scum and I don’t think she posts what she does as VT and if she does then wow.

too bad we litterally have public info of no traitors

i don't like you actually discussing seriously anya's things

Regarding traitors good to know.

You don’t like me discussing my Anya read?

When she fake claimed a guilty on me?

Man if this is Anya Moz G and Tsu and one of them is the alien I am gonna die a happy man.

[MathBlade]

i have trouble beliving math actually bought that claim from anya not gonna lie

and like, why is he rushing on her now but when she litterally faked messages he didn't move a finger (grated yes he repped in, but cmon, like, he's caught up)

Flea, you think math's push is actually legit?

Uhm I replaced in today after a skim.

The only message she had said was myself since then.

T3 said she claimed mail person (If I am wrong about Tsu sub in T3) and I struggled to find where and asked for help and that’s what started this shindig.

Are you selectively choosing posts?

You realize this outed you as scum last time you were scum in a game with town!Me right?

[MathBlade]

I pushed Math on that a little and Math's argument was that the claim effectively represented a guilty (even accounting for the presence of a roleblocker, it may be argued that limming the guilty is the optimal move). Instead of waiting for the eventual wagon and blah he just sped up the process and claimed right there. This logic does check out unless you believe Anya's fakeclaim was "obviously a fakeclaim" but I doubt that.

well yeah, that's where our views differ

i don't see how claiming 2-shot tracker actually changes anything from a town PoV? like, guilty's still on you

Yes...I am a fucking mind reader and claimed my track before the supposed guilty and outed my crumbs.

If I die today {Anya,G,and Moz} are all lock scum. G is 100% better than what his play is right now.

[MathBlade]

s/loyal mailman/loyal messenger

Correction
Anya claimed “sent something that would prove innocence” (paraphrase) to outer before I replaced in
I replace in and crumb tracker result Mozamis did not kill XtomX.
Start pushing Mastina for being a claimed PR when I am one
Anya starts pushing me.
I push back.
She claims loyal messenger.
I out my PR.
She backs off and claims VT.

In what world does a VT post “sent something that would prove innocence”?

She didn’t expect me to be a PR. Simple as that.

[MathBlade]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12276440

G is scum.

He did the exact same to Thomas as scum.

The question becomes why are scum defending Anya so hard?

[MathBlade]

Mastina mason

Did I miss something?

Mastina claimed mason in her first post.
She also claimed an active power.

If you catch up you’ll see why I push her and why Anya is lock!scum

[MathBlade]

Anya

Mozamis

Almost50 Tsu Mastina?

Has a nice ring but one or two maybe wrong.

Anya first.

The rest could be a theory depending upon if Anya caused the message to Mastina. That’s the only reason I see scum defending Anya so hard.

The rest relies on me quite frankly guessing scum based on my skim and reaction tests.

Moz and G are much more likely scum than A50 and Tsu

Anya
Moz/G
Tsu/T3
Mastina
{Anyone not listed}
Almost50/Auro
Vax
Me
Me

[MathBlade]

Then you’re saying scum are on it regardless of Anya’s alignment?

yeah.

Then your point about Anya being town because of your belief scum are in it is incorrect.

This is pretty straightforward here.

Anya is caught scum who quit posting.

I made several reachouts in case I was wrong and she didn’t specify any reads at all.

I mean resistance to the Anya wagon pretty much puts you in my PoE it’s that bad.

So I've skimmed up and y'all are making it seem like she's confscum. Is there something I'm missing like a guilty or something?

Anya in a prior day said they sent something to Outer that proved their innocence. This is not something a VT does.
Outer claims never to have received it. Anya doesn’t scumread outer.
I replace in and crumb tracker.
Anya comes in and seems off.
I push.
Anya reacts poorly and claims loyal messenger.
I call her out and my crumbs as a CC you’re full of shit.
Anya then rescinds the claim of sending a message and claims VT.

(Paraphrase)

[MathBlade]

Hi I am a mason.

I just thought this was a lie, but a town one.

Possible but that’s why I was sorting her.

But now since I am probably dead it has to be the lock scum we know in Anya.

[MathBlade]

The reason im scum reading A50 is being all his posts seem to be written from a scum angle. I just dont see town!A50 writing those things I quoted above.

I don’t think that’s scum A50 considering the team would have to be exactly Anya Moz G and A50.

A defense of Anya seems like a TMI one if she is town or a scum buddy if she is scum.

The only way I see A50 scum is if Anya is town which is really rare.

[MathBlade]

Pretty much my wish list would be
Anya flips scum >> Elim G. G’s meta is incredibly similar to the game I linked.
Anya flips town >> I still think elim in Moz/G but not so sure G first.

But between that and my readwall I think my reads are known.

[MathBlade]

Any particular reason you’re voting me Flea?

And the NK does seem like an odd choice but I think we focus on that later.

We only have one elim.

I am almost certainly dead tonight.

Nothing changes putting that question off a day Vax.

[MathBlade]

i think gypyx is town

Then argue that tomorrow once Anya is flipped.

[MathBlade]

if nobody objects within an hour, i’m hammering

I object.
Let bugspray catch up and if they don’t post anything in two-three hours then hammer.

But they expressed an interest let them post a thought before hammering.

[MathBlade]

if nobody objects within an hour, i’m hammering

I object.
Let bugspray catch up and if they don’t post anything in two-three hours then hammer.

But they expressed an interest let them post a thought before hammering.

i’ll go to sleep in ~1 hour

if bugspray consents and I get no other objections, hammering in 1 hour

Looks like bugspray isn’t posting any catchup. Still wait the whole hour but objection removed.

[MathBlade]

By the way, could people please explain their reads on me?

In PoE but I want G and Moz more in that order.

[MathBlade]

Oooh a Mastina.

Look at G’s response.

G = scum yeah? You were scum with G before. This should be easy for you?

[MathBlade]

The other part that worries me is let’s assume Mastina is Mason + PR since she said she sent out some targeting action.

I am indeed conftown with a targeting action.

Elaborating beyond that is never protown here.

If Anya is town as you say (I sure as fuck hope you’re wrong) you need to conf yourself when I am dead and drive.

I know you’re going through shit right now but I am pretty sure G is scum here and I am going to ask you to drive when I die.

[MathBlade]

My top 4 are lend, bugspray, Anya, Auro.

Replace Anya with...well, not quite sure who, but someone else, and you get where I'm at, too.

I'm willing to buy that MathBlade's town here since PR-wise we have room for him to be town without it overloading the town PRs here and the claim did seem highly town under the circumstances. I am pretty damn sure bugspray is scum here. Auro could be town but his play by and large says otherwise. lend looks like scum through and through, tho I'm not as sure on him as I am on bugspray.

The fourth might be one of {tris, Almost50}, although I admit that's more a combination of setup spec than a read.

I think your reads suck imho. Probably why you’re not dead.

[MathBlade]

*confused Math face*

Does not compute.

Looks forward to dying so confusion doesn’t drown thread.

[MathBlade]

I think your reads suck imho. Probably why you’re not dead.

I mean my reads seem pretty fine thusfar. I was townreading Momrangal, Xtoxm, and VFP; I feel pretty damn confident in Gypyx being town and fairly good about mozamis and Vaxkiller being town, too. T3 and Tsutsu, while not conftown, do have fairly strong reason to be town imo.

And if Anya flips town like I think, that'll be another read I was right on.

And if you're town like I currently believe, that leaves the pool of 4 scum as being:
{Flea, Almost50, tris, Outworlder, lendunidis, Auro, bugspray}.

And in that group I'm pretty damn sure this is Flea as town.

Which means 4 scum in {Almost50, tris, Outworlder, lendunidis, Auro, bugspray}.

6 names for 4 scum; that's a pretty damn good POE imo.

So I think my reads are just fine.

If you’re right do what you want but like you’re PoE is literally all my town reads.

[MathBlade]

By the way, could people please explain their reads on me?

In PoE but I want G and Moz more in that order.

The problem with this is that I actually agree with it and I never agree with you which makes this really strange. not sure what to think about it tbh.
Btw who is G ???

Gypyx. I use tons of Y's and X's in my math so Gypyx's name is a blur so I just short it to G.

[MathBlade]

I think that's hammer so good luck ya'll. I probably should be dead. I'm likely wrong on the others because I'm disagreeing with Mastina but I really think Moz + G + one (might possibly be mastina). Good luck If Mastina + G are the masons/confirms then crumbs/hints should be provided. Good luck ya'll elim the rest of the scum. (Yes I'm assuming Anya is scum because if not that was horrible.)

[MathBlade]

<3 Mastina

My result is Mastina visited a person who is not dead so gonna go with Mastina town.

I kinda disagree with some of your reads due to a recently completed game I was comod for.

It’s kinda hard to explain why but you and I I think should townblock and figure out whose reads are hella bad.

I am lazy today due to trans day of visibility but yeah I think Mastina is town and I think risks pay off sometimes and will catch up later.

I am surprised I am not dead but hey Mastina is nigh on conf town so I will take it.

So let’s see about building a conf town block somehow.

[MathBlade]

Meh I am just gonna be a sheep today me thinks.

A big lovable sheep.

That just curls up and waits for things.

Definitely doesn’t argue.

That’s what I have gathered from my skim.

I think hybrid a50’s and Mastina’s reads from yesterday and this should be good.

[MathBlade]

Also I really wanna elim T3 because moonlogic.

[MathBlade]

Also I really wanna elim T3 because moonlogic.

tell me more

I kinda don’t wanna say why just yet. But I kinda have a vibe.

[MathBlade]

I dont care about some stupid mech half assed guilties. If its not a clear mech guilty, I read play. period.

Cool my vibe is a play thing and not a play thing.

Just vibing.

Maybe someone else can feel the vibes.

I don’t have a guilty but I feel it in my bones T3 is scum.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: T3

[MathBlade]

what do you think of the message thing?

I think things. They are thingy things.

I think they are lovely <3 thingy things.

[MathBlade]

Also I really wanna elim T3 because moonlogic.

tell me more

I kinda don’t wanna say why just yet. But I kinda have a vibe.

you see the problem is that I have wanted T3 dead for all of yesterday but now that you think that, im worried if it's right.
I said yesterday that Anya was town but no one would listen.

You were right on Anya.

Still not sorry she was miselimmed.

You don’t do that as town.

[MathBlade]

Also I really wanna elim T3 because moonlogic.

tell me more

I kinda don’t wanna say why just yet. But I kinda have a vibe.

you see the problem is that I have wanted T3 dead for all of yesterday but now that you think that, im worried if it's right.
I said yesterday that Anya was town but no one would listen.

You were right on Anya.

Still not sorry she was miselimmed.

You don’t do that as town.

I dont care what she did. She gave off clear town energy towards the end of the day and I told everyone that.

That’s where I disagree.

“Energy” is fakable.

Being antitown like that is a death sentence.

[MathBlade]

Adamantly opposed to what theory?

I came into the game.

Started hunting Mastina.

Got fake claimed against.

Elimmed fake claimer.

That’s literally the entire day.

[MathBlade]

And I said hybrid Mastina’s and A50’s reads today? I don’t get your point?

Going to bed

[MathBlade]

Gypyx
Randy Savage/MathBlade
Vaxkiller
mozamis

T3
Noraa/Tsutsu
Flea the Magician

quiet/Almost50
OutWorldER

tris

lendunistus

Auro

bugspray

Updated readslist. (Anya deliberately removed because Anya should be a policy-elimination today due to the chance she's scum even though I don't think she is.)

Hey Auro,

Convince me you are scum.

[MathBlade]

By the wayy, tris copped and sent a message to me last night with a code. The code was: "if ur town then i will say intresting... Okay"

why are you saying this..

I don’t see how there’s a cop and thing I shouldn’t say and thing I shouldn’t say all town.

That doesn’t make sense.

[MathBlade]

Therefore if T3 is town I think so and so is scum

But like so and so 2 says so and so 1 is town and would be really unhappy if I say things

So I really need so and so 1 and 2 to like post

VOTE: Unvote

[MathBlade]

how confident are you that it doesn't make sense for there to be a cop?

pedit: @math

Reasonably certain.

It would require X’s claim to be false and X to be scum with Y.

I don’t think mods put in a cop and Y and X all confirmable in one game.

[MathBlade]

Plus me a tracker.

I am saying X and Y because I am trying not to out because I have a dilemma of which world is correct and if I pick wrong and out things this will go badly.

[MathBlade]

If X and Y exist and there is a cop
We could end up with some insane amount of confirmed roles to the point it’s not mafia lmao.

Pedit:

I need to think things through mechanically

That’s why I said reasonably certain.

Give me time after work.

[MathBlade]

So now we have 4 confirmed towns.

Walk me through this?

mastina conftown
math conftown
me conftown
tris conftown

Don’t get so fast on the draw here.

Let me think through things and don’t flash wagon.

[MathBlade]

And people wonder why I'm voting bugspray.

Because it's a really easy "bus" cos it was never gonna happen?
Your personal problems aside -if true -I still find it hard to understand why a player of your calibre and experience basically said nothing about the whole Anya/Math tihng and left your vote doing nothing on Bugspray, and not pushing Bugspray at all.
Again, very sorry if you are genuinely struggling IRL, but this is Mafia so I have to be sceptical.

Explain your Mastina push please?

Do you think Mastina + bugspray?

[MathBlade]

@Tris assume you’re cop why tell the person you’re copping them?

[MathBlade]

i'm not sure what to say right now >_<

Make it good.

Btw Auro scum stock through the roof atm.

[MathBlade]

Technically this seems true but false but true but false?

Like gah?

[MathBlade]

Incoming "I thought I was a cop but really just a msg sender" or something.

Waiting for this tbh.

[MathBlade]

Still catching up, but lets not forget my EFFING LIST!
So Anya Almost are cleared, leaving:
Auro
Bugspary
T3
Len
Mastina
and beacuse Math seems to think Mastina is town, and Math is my strongest town read, I'd say Auro, Bug,T3, Len scum team?
Still catching up tho.

At this point anyone can be scum.

This game doesn’t mechanically make sense.

Would do Auro but really want two people to come on and post. Ideally three <3

[MathBlade]

math, do you need anything from me at this point?

If you’re a cop your checks would be nice but if you’re not a cop make up who you would have checked and result.

[MathBlade]

it's only n3

That makes more sense balance wise

*thinks*

[MathBlade]

Unopposed to mass-claim.

Are you trying to scum claim here?

[MathBlade]

Bottom line: tris is cop with me innocent

ok, so ASSUMING you guys arent scum running rings ound everyone, we have:
Moz, Tris,t3 conf town
Math seems really town, sheeping him on mastina.

I am nervous about the bugspray wagon. Until the wagon started he seemed a candidate, but now...he could be todays "easy mislynch".
Math, your thoughts?
Where the fck is GYp anyway?

I am reserving my thoughts until so and so’s 1-2 ideally 1-3 post or until after work sorry.

[MathBlade]

{T3, Mozamis, Tsutsu, Gypyx} are all very likely town.
{

Xtoxm

, Mastina}, apart from my paranoia, are probably just town.
Gut feel

A50

is town.

VFP

is flipping but is probably town.

This leaves the relatively large pool of {Ledunistus, Outworlder, Bugspray, Tris, Randy Savage, Vaxkiller,

Anya

}.

If there's a vig just shoot Randy. Tomorrow's lim I think I'll prefer {Bugspray, Ledunistus, Anya} as lim candidates tomorrow. If anyone has solid reasons to townread others on that list, let me know.

Let me re-quote this list and make updates.
{T3, Mozamis, Tsutsu, Gypyx}
{Mastina}
{Ledunistus, Outworlder, Bugspray, Tris, Mathblade, Vaxkiller}.

Of this, T3 has an apparent "inno" from Tris. I was townreading T3 anyway; not a concern.

Mozamis I'd still say is just town off gut.

Tsutsu also seems like her town self.

Gypyx apparently struggles to post as scum. Think I got a lil sus of him yesterday, but quick skim now says he's probably fine.

Mastina is also

apparently

confirmable via having a town only role; but Mastina is also someone likely to have killed all of {Momrangal, A50, Xtoxm}... I hope she gets confirmed before LimLo.

Confident Math's town here.

Confused at Tris' play, and I'd like more mechanical clarity there.

Everyone else in that bottom bracket I'm kinda just unsure about. Probably I'd lim Ledunistus if I had to right now?

Dunno why a massclaim today rather than the next game day is horrible, I think the mechanical clarity would be good. If it happens though, I'll obviously claim my targets last.

You claimed rolecop.
Mastina has said several times that she has a town only role.
Yet here you shade her.
Assume you are a rolecop, why not check her?

[MathBlade]

9 hours and 40 minutes late but hey, at least it happened

VOTE: Anya

So I assume we are gonna let this scumfck lurk his way to victory?
Pathetic hammer.

Ye gods have mercy on my poor soul...

VOTE: Mozamies

I ain't dropping this today, sorry.

I’ve had a vibe moz scum for a while.

Can you detail this please?

[MathBlade]

Why?

[MathBlade]

9 hours and 40 minutes late but hey, at least it happened

VOTE: Anya

So I assume we are gonna let this scumfck lurk his way to victory?
Pathetic hammer.

Ye gods have mercy on my poor soul...

VOTE: Mozamies

I ain't dropping this today, sorry.

I am kinda feeling a Moz or an Auro elim.

What do you make of this Mastina? I think you townread Moz. Can you help me with why?

[MathBlade]

i am the most misgendered user on the site

I am guilty of misgendering them too.

I will read Mastina’s case in a bit.

Something is fishy but need time to evaluate.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Auro

@Mastina can we do where we agree on Auro?

I get what you’re saying on Bugspray but if you die then I can carry it on and if you don’t die then you can do win win.

It’s possible bug is town but Moz and Auro are imho more likely.

[MathBlade]

Vax/T3/Auro/___ is the team

I could see the blank being bugspray.

This seems viable.

[MathBlade]

The thing is, while in theory I would, in practice those three are not high priorities for me in this game. They are, however, high priorities for you. Who here other than you would have the experience with all three and think all three are nightkill-worthy?

They're definitely NK-worthy, but killing them makes the game super boring, so bleh

Why didn’t you answer my question?

Why haven’t you rolecopped Mastina if you suspect her?

And if you have and still do why aren’t you saying she’s scum for lying?

[MathBlade]

Why didn’t you answer my question?

Why haven’t you rolecopped Mastina if you suspect her?

And if you have and still do why aren’t you saying she’s scum for lying?

You extremely quickly responded when I was still posting, where have you gone now? o.o

Critical role.

I mixed up post order sorry.

Had a memory failure.

I don’t believe the claim.

You don’t have to say what each person is but who did you check each night?

[MathBlade]

I will Unvote in case mistaken VOTE: Unvote

[MathBlade]

Why Almost50?

[MathBlade]

Fellow Mason, tris, who do we wanna vote for
VOTE: Tsutsu

interesting vote, care to explain why?

Tsutsu's confidence in her posts doesn't seem to square with her own play, and feels a little exaggerated? Almost like she's overdoing something that she knows she usually does as town.

aurooo wat u think of the poe and whats urs looking like?

Will review this after the weekend, it's fine I think but the game needs way more spice

Who do you think the Minion is??

Maybe this time the turntables

This is the earliest place for Almost50 in your ISO. And that’s D2.

Pedit: Why was Almost50 a great NK target?

(Other people give me space please...if you wanna say something give me 10 mins)

[MathBlade]

602 for my recollection is when day one ended.

[MathBlade]

Pedit: Why was Almost50 a great NK target?

Good player, etc etc?

Good player etc etc that does nothing but troll has like no reads more important than mason claim and JK claim. Explain that for me?

Because I am trying to make sure I don’t tunnel you incorrectly here but I don’t see your motivation.

Convenient check on the dead guy?

Blocked today so you can’t verify if the number of shots I said is true or false.

It’s very suspicious.

[MathBlade]

It’s only redundant if you’re scum. And you also attempted to rolecop me N3 despite my claim.

I also am a living player unless you are telling me I am dead tonight?

[MathBlade]

And I don’t see what your check of A50 was driven by at all except town pr hunting.

Can you do something more to explain it?

[MathBlade]

Math, in case I am limmed today I want to have made a proper effort, will you be around over the next hour or two?

It’s only redundant if you’re scum. And you also attempted to rolecop me N3 despite my claim.

I also am a living player unless you are telling me I am dead tonight?

My target on you was not for the rolecop, it was for the protect.

I will be around off and on because Critical Role.

If you’re town here you should effort the shit out of this whether I am here or not.

[MathBlade]

K I saw what I wanted to see instant reactions I look forward to the efforting Auro

[MathBlade]

If you’re town here you should effort the shit out of this whether I am here or not.

I'm gonna force myself to effort, today's a holiday for me which is amazing. Still, somehow I'm unable to get

into

the game, if someone's around to talk it'll help massively. Missing A50/Xtoxm even more now >.>

I am here if you need to talk but not gonna lie you really look like scum here.

I have five conditional innos and I am a pretty good PR hunter so you really need to step up and show what you’re thinking.

[MathBlade]

Actually wait 6 innos.

[MathBlade]

I could but I don’t see why I would.

I would rather scum be forced to kill me and I drop things at the end of the day.

Then scum fear kill me which I am okay with.

This is about you and why you shouldn’t be elimmed. Not me and my solve.

[MathBlade]

Well, are you 100% that the innos are actually innos?

The word conditional implies no

But I would rather not hunt in that unless someone fucks up.

[MathBlade]

What’s your PoE?

[MathBlade]

I still find it hard to understand why a player of your calibre and experience basically said nothing about the whole Anya/Math tihng and left your vote doing nothing on Bugspray, and not pushing Bugspray at all.

In Anya v MathBlade, there was not much to say: MathBlade's play made him almost certainly town from it. Anya's play was also probably town, but due to the nature of the play, demanded a policy-elimination. I said both of these things yesterday and there was nothing more that needed to be said on the subject. I didn't push for a bugspray elimination yesterday because there wasn't much point--Anya was a policy elimination that I agreed with eliminating on policy alone. I thought her town, but there was a chance the play was scum and even if not, it is up to us as a community to punish the type of play Anya made to ensure scum never DO try it and hide behind the "town do this so I did it too" excuse, and the only punishment we can inflict is an elimination, to help teach players that that sort of play is not acceptable for good reason. The elimination was 100% going to be Anya yesterday. I couldn't push against it especially not when I agreed with the policy behind it.

However just because the elimination was guaranteed to be Anya doesn't mean that I can't continue to point out why bugspray is opportunistic-as-fuck scum who is coasting by.

I also have, without fail, voted him the entirety of the game. I've cast a grand total of one non-bugspray vote, on D1, and I immediately revoted bugspray less than 5 minutes later, so effectively, my vote has been on him the entire game, and will continue to be there until he flips, because bugspray is the BBMolla of this game. (Gypyx and MathBlade will get the reference. tris might, too.)

VOTE: bugspray.

<3 Mastina

<3 MathBlade <3

I think hybrid a50’s and Mastina’s reads from yesterday and this should be good.

The thought did cross my mind, but the only read of his I'm comfortable instantly and immediately sheeping without a deep delve into further nuances of the game is bugspray as scum. Further than that would require more review and thought.

Very frustrating NK.

Says the person who very likely was the one who ordered it.

I'm a combined _____ + Rolecop.

This claim is probably real.

It is also probably scum.

Btw Auro scum stock through the roof atm.

Explicitly so, yes.

it's only n3

That makes more sense balance wise
*thinks*

I agree.
REGARDLESS OF TRIS'S ALIGNMENT, I am pretty sure this makes T3 town. Scum wouldn't fake a clear on scum in this contrived, convoluted way. And if town then the clear is probably a legit clear.

I can see a N3 messenger cop coexisting with a 2x tracker fairly easily here, and I believe the claim is more likely to come from town than from scum, even if it was slightly botched. (Also, tris didn't need to reveal herself to T3 if scum with the messenger role but did so anyway.)

With this in mind, this is where I'm at for an initial D4 readslist:
Gypyx
Randy Savage/MathBlade
T3
tris

Vaxkiller
mozamis

Noraa/Tsutsu
Flea the Magician


OutWorldER


lendunistus

Auro

bugspray

Role-wise basically conftown; setup mech-spec townreads; play-wise strong townreads; null; lean scum; scumread; very very very strongly scumread to the point of being as scum as scum can be without a cop guilty. (As in the only way bugspray could be more scum to me is with a cop guilty.)

This is Mastina’s list. Hmmmm

[MathBlade]

I find it odd a top townread and a scumread have the same read list.

What do you think Mastina?

[MathBlade]

Mastina there are certain things I probably shouldn’t say so can you go over your reasons for your top four again?

I am thinking there’s something there that is weird.

[MathBlade]

This is Mastina’s list. Hmmmm

Do note that I'm not really feeling great about that PoE

at all

, my gut tells me there's something very funny going on.

My gut does too.

[MathBlade]

Hmmm

I think the odd night alien may be scum.

The odd night alien didn’t block me and didn’t block Mastina.

Who got a message? Just T3?

[MathBlade]

I got a message along with the alien block.

Interesting. What did it say?

[MathBlade]

C’mon dude? Coming up with a fake message?

[MathBlade]

This is Mastina’s list. Hmmmm

Do note that I'm not really feeling great about that PoE

at all

, my gut tells me there's something very funny going on.

My gut does too.

Yeah so that's why a massclaim now would be pretty beneficial... no?

Actually no it wouldn’t...

And I have a hunch to who it is too if they exist.

You can still paraphrase what they said.

[MathBlade]

That was a loose paraphrase.

"Hi Auro, I am the mailman-alien,
-redacted stuff about a confident townread-
-how to confirm them-
-how they could reveal to me-
you might be nk'd but you're also a bit scummy so i'm targeting you"

I don’t buy you being anywhere near an NK in this setup.

So either you’re scum lying and the alien doesn’t exist
Or the alien that visited you is scum.

That doesn’t make congruent sense

[MathBlade]

Damn I wish G hadn’t replaced out.

He’s good with this sorta stuff.

[MathBlade]

Three messengers all town I don’t buy. It’s too much a stretch.

[MathBlade]

Claims:

mastina - something (very very likely town by mathblade)
mathblade - 2-shot tracker (conftown by mastina)
tris - messenger cop << very likely inno due to claim
T3 - vanilla townie (conftown by tris)
Auro - ___ Rolecop (not conftown)

Ftfy

[MathBlade]

Claims:

mastina - something (very very likely town by mathblade)
mathblade - 2-shot tracker (conftown by mastina)
tris - n3 messenger cop << very likely inno due to claim
T3 - vanilla townie (conftown by tris)
Auro - doctor Rolecop (not conftown)

Ftfy

Ftfm lol

And just something is fishy

[MathBlade]

Hello there.

Can you explain what happened in one post, so i don't need read 90 pages?

After work yes but there’s a lot of messaging going on.

I would focus there.

[MathBlade]

flow trap was voted. Mom was killed. VFP was sus. VFP was voted and was doc. Xtomx was killed. Anya claimed loyal messenger with 2 guilties. Anya was voted. Anya was VT. Mathblade claimed tacker with mastina as town pr. tris claimed cop wuth me inno.

Correction:
I said Mastina went somewhere and that person isn’t dead.
That makes them very likely a TPR.

I did not say they are 100% exclusively so but it’s enough to where I am not considering them for elim today.

[MathBlade]

So now we have 4 confirmed towns.

Walk me through this?

mastina conftown
math conftown
me conftown
tris conftown

I see.

Mastina confirmed by Tracker.
Math is this Tracker.
You are checked by Cop.
And finally, tris is this Cop.


I first time play in normal setup, but how you know how many mafia members here? I can't find.
Aren't it's possible for mafia get these roles? Aren't it's possible for mafia being Tracker, and Cop is somewhat skeptical claim, especially with just one townie check. Mafia knows who is mafia, of course.

I don't want say it's impossible, but by what they are confirmed?

Yes it is possible that mafia are lying.
In Mastina’s case it requires another person to be scum. And I think it’s better I don’t say more than that right now unless you really want me to risk saying some things that imho should not be said first and are best sent via the Greek Gods of moonlogic. I think if you’re town you’ll get what I am alluding to here.

[MathBlade]

Yes it is possible that mafia are lying.
In Mastina’s case it requires another person to be scum. And I think it’s better I don’t say more than that right now unless you really want me to risk saying some things that imho should not be said first and are best sent via the Greek Gods of moonlogic. I think if you’re town you’ll get what I am alluding to here.

Honestly, don't understand. But if you think hiding it is worth it, then fine.

She claimed town role, which could be only Town. Why Rolecop claim didn't check it though.

You really should understand...that’s troubling.

Mastina, thoughts?

[MathBlade]

Yes it is possible that mafia are lying.
In Mastina’s case it requires another person to be scum. And I think it’s better I don’t say more than that right now unless you really want me to risk saying some things that imho should not be said first and are best sent via the Greek Gods of moonlogic. I think if you’re town you’ll get what I am alluding to here.

Honestly, don't understand. But if you think hiding it is worth it, then fine.

She claimed town role, which could be only Town. Why Rolecop claim didn't check it though.

That could be town derp or a spicy theory I am kinda hunting atm.

I think you’re a VT or TPR correct?

[MathBlade]

Perhaps.

We are massclaiming? If no, i want hold my role for a bit.

Not yet.

But the answer is always yes to that question.
You’re always either a VT or Town Power Role if you’re town lol.

Your answers are really odd maybe foreign. Do you come from another site maybe?

I am trying to figure out why your play is so weird.

[MathBlade]

I can’t explain without saying something antitown but let’s go with that.

Another Face to Face player nice

[MathBlade]

I can’t explain without saying something antitown but let’s go with that.

Another Face to Face player nice

What Face to Face means?

It means playing in person.

[MathBlade]

It means instead of using a forum you meet in the real world and play mafia.

[MathBlade]

Ohhhh my bad.

Welcome to MS and I hope you like it here

[MathBlade]

it is quite possible that spectating players can influence my thought processes for the bloc allocations
private topics will be open during day phases
there will be no traitor or ninja roles.
reiterating here that it is 15:4 and a normal setup

^^ This is from post one from the moderator

[MathBlade]

Thanks, missed it.

So, i'm not perfectly sure, how we find which claims are real and which are fake, because mafia could get these roles too. I read for a bit and we have:

Two trackers.
One Cop with Mails.
One "Townie role".
One Rolecop.
One Dayvig.
One Alien with mails.

Did i miss something?

Uhm...where did you read some of that?
Townie role Mastina
Odd night alien with Mails >> Claimed by Mastina to exist and has strongly implied its (so and so)
N3 only cop with mail >> Tris used on T3
Doctor+Rolecop >> Auro
Jailkeep with Mail >> Mom (dead)

Not sure where you get Dayvig or another tracker. Can you elaborate please since it’s in thread

[MathBlade]

There’s also me who is a tracker but that’s only one tracker

[MathBlade]

Oh. 2-shot tracker. Not two. I messed these things in my head when read.

About dayvig is this:

i don't belive she doesn't read her role PM, and i doubt anyone else does

o.o
That was still not an obvious fakeclaim

Dayvig: Gypyx

Now i understand this as joke. Fine then.

The site meta tends towards day actions being fake.

[MathBlade]

I think we should just vote bugspray at this point, the game isn't going anywhere.

If it’s not going anywhere you’re not hunting.
A static game after this many elims means push someone.

A compromise elim on day open means scum are happy where things are.
If anything that means DON’T do bugspray.

[MathBlade]

Tl;dr - Bug or Vax should be today's lynch.

That makes me want to elim neither of them.

[MathBlade]

And bugspray said make me rr. So bugspray, please, rr. Also I think Auro is town based on the way the claim was worded.

Make you rr? What’s rr?

[MathBlade]

That was a loose paraphrase.

"Hi Auro, I am the mailman-alien,
-redacted stuff about a confident townread-
-how to confirm them-
-how they could reveal to me-

you might be nk'd but you're also a bit scummy so i'm targeting you"

The bolded bit really sounds like the truth.
This, coupled with the fact that there are two votes on you from the smll bloc, after I suggested you were scummy, makes me think you are town, and damns Vaxkiller even more in my eyes.

This seems like garbage.

If they’re a little scummy they wouldn’t be NK’d over me or mastina.
That doesn’t make any sense at all.

[MathBlade]

Enchant's entry looks encourangingly town, as Gyp was.
Moz, Math, Enchant, Tsu, Tris, t3, Auro, Mastina, Flea
Vax, Len, Outworlder, BUgspar scum?

*shakes head*

I disagree with the entry being town.
Wasnt scummy sorta null.

Then again there’s really something missing here.

I can’t say what though.

This is infuriating and I can’t explain why.

I am good with Moz or Auro
Or
(Spicy1 + Spicy2)

[MathBlade]

Quite honestly it feels like people are just treating this like RVS and it’s said.

2305 is the first thing resembling content.

[MathBlade]

It’s sad* grrr autocorrect*

Like 3/4th of the game isn’t here

[MathBlade]

I am good with

Moz

or Auro

Huh? I think Mozamis is transparently town - explain?

It’s like the vibe bug that keeps on giving.

I think Moz is transparently scum here.

VOTE: Moz

[MathBlade]

This really feels like Moz Auro but am willing to hammer bugspray since it fits into that.

I think my earlier cases on Moz were kinda ignored and just blanket disagreement doesn’t help me see anything.

I think town cohesion is more important than repeating myself so consider me on bugspray in spirit.

[MathBlade]

I think we should just vote bugspray at this point, the game isn't going anywhere.

If it’s not going anywhere you’re not hunting.
A static game after this many elims means push someone.

A compromise elim on day open means scum are happy where things are.
If anything that means DON’T do bugspray.

Tl;dr - Bug or Vax should be today's lynch.

That makes me want to elim neither of them.

This really feels like Moz Auro but am willing to hammer bugspray since it fits into that.

I think my earlier cases on Moz were kinda ignored and just blanket disagreement doesn’t help me see anything.

I think town cohesion is more important than repeating myself so consider me on bugspray in spirit.

1. Please summarize the case on Mozamis again.
2. Quoted posts are contradictory - why would town cohesion matter so much if it just leads to a town lim? How does a bugspray lim suddenly fit into a {Moz, Auro} solve when earlier the opposite was implied?

1) Not beneficial today. Moz doesn’t have the support and we are running close to deadline
2) Town cohesion matters because we need an elim. We are close to deadline. If we weren’t close to deadline I would be screaming Moz still.

Today looks like it’s between you and Bugs

VOTE: Auro

My preference is you but will take Bugs.

[MathBlade]

^

Agree. I can't access site sometimes, it makes playing hard.

Thirded and multiple players not here makes an elim almost impossible

[MathBlade]

It's interesting how Mathblade now wants to hammer Bugspray "for Town cohesion" when he's pretty confident in a Moz+Auro solve and that apparently implies Bug is town. Town was happily piling on Bug, but someone diverted it to Vax, and maybe this is Math panicking.

Dude lmao

Math panic is I rapid post in scum PT.

I can’t say why yet but this post is really,really bad from Auro.