Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[humaneatingmonkey]

what's up

i haven't played this setup before so how is this any different than normal mafia

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh nice i can still participate after death

[humaneatingmonkey]

so we have no associatives until it's too late, right? everything is up to dayplay. after our first two elims, we will know if one of them is town or all of them is town because the game has not ended yet right?

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay cool. i'll read the thread and react in realtime

[humaneatingmonkey]

is there any differences at all with how scum behaves here than in normal games?

[humaneatingmonkey]

like i would assume town would have less reason to feel panic in D1

[humaneatingmonkey]

and also that we have no info from NK because scum just prepares for them

A perfect scum game is:
Day 1 - 2v7
Day 2 - 2v7 (actually 5 — 1 primed, 1 stumped)
Day 3 - 2v7 (actualy 3 or MYLO — 2 primed, 2 stumped)
Day 4 - Scum win, without giving away any associative

so our best bet is to get our elim right and force an early burning so that we can get info. am I getting this right?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism seems to be up to her towny antics so far

can you explain

[humaneatingmonkey]

your read is a bit questionable

[humaneatingmonkey]

Your slot is a bit questionable

what's wrong with my slot

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh ok so there's 8 town and 1 scum gotcha

[humaneatingmonkey]

what's up i haven't caught up yet I was slapped with a rush job but I'll be back soon

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm here now let's go

[humaneatingmonkey]

Page 6. From the get go, I don't believe that Infinity's reads are genuine. She makes these reads but I don't believe her process. First example is her read on Prism as town, but it's barely obvious what's town about Prism at the time she made that read and I don't buy her current explanation when I asked her. Another example is in #125 - reads Ydrasse as scum because she expects deeper out of Ydrasse but it's page 6 and we've only begun to escape RVS at this point. Oh, and then she votes Hectic even though it's also not apparent that Ydrasse has stopped doing what she thought was scummy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Infinity Let's see if I don't change my mind after Page 6

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also page 6, I'm getting a town vibe from Prism, Ydrasse, and T3.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I feel pretty good about Lukewarm being town after 139. I skimmed the marathon run of Guardians and they feel more comfortable here. In Guardians they stuck strictly to mechanics for the first half of the game and only gradually dipped into giving reads or meaningful feedback.

Lukewarm was town in guardians

I agree he's towny here

We are talking about two different games. Lukewarm was scum in the recent Marathon run of Guardians.

Oh I didn't read your post close enough

I'n hesitant to use marathon meta, but I agree with your assessment

see here: Prism is talking about her reads and Infinity jumps on this with an agreement — but they're talking about different games. It doesn't seem like an actual evaluation happened here, just an opportunity to piggyback a read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism - Lot of analysis and some meta. Good content but nothing I explicitly townrwad and that isn't fakeable for her. Tone is notably different but she says she's trying a different approach. Probably weakest townread on here

I don't buy this.

You have clearly seen me fake the freewheeling, joking tone (in the vein of non-tilted Costello or me at my most lighthearted in Chara's Folly) in Flying Scumsman. You have seen this sort of intentionality and sharper focus repeatedly, dating back to your first experience with me on Replica, continuing through Folly, with flashes of it in Binding of Isaac.

I have repeatedly done things to sort players both actively and preemptively. I find it unlikely that these take a backseat in your mind in favor of tone.

Prism is town

[humaneatingmonkey]

Welcome, monkey of Old

whats up buddy

[humaneatingmonkey]

You don't understand the dark history Prism and I have, Infinity. We were both town in Chara's Folly and her 100 page long push still keeps me up at night

UNVOTE:

This makes that post lean town for me

Either I'm not understanding Infinity's process at all or she doesn't have one because this does not follow. Maybe she can explain?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Not sure how to read Hectic because he intimidates me as a player and I'm inclined to just assume he's scum, but his response to Prism's pressure Page 8 is towny

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism and Hectic's battle pings me as though one of them is forcing it although that is still more or less a guess.

I agree, but I empathize with Prism that Hectic is possibly a player you want to give early attention to so you can sort them. Although I'm confused that Prism keeps mentioning she sees Infinity as scummy as well but doesn't pressure her as much as she's pressuring Hectic at this point of the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Not sure how to read Hectic because he intimidates me as a player and I'm inclined to just assume he's scum, but his response to Prism's pressure Page 8 is towny

in this example, as well as my other examples, it appears to me that you don't really have your own reads/you're faking them because it's not obvious to me that there's a process there

[humaneatingmonkey]

EBWOP

see here: Prism is talking about her reads and Infinity jumps on this with an agreement — but they're talking about different games. It doesn't seem like an actual evaluation happened here, just an opportunity to piggyback a read.

I don't understand how this is AI at all since I didn't agree with prism's original assessment of luke's meta, just the conclusion

in this example, as well as my other examples, it appears to me that you don't really have your own reads/you're faking them because it's not obvious to me that there's a process there

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity I'm doing a catch-up so I'm gonna be living in the past and rushing to put my impressions out there. i'm not gonna be focused on grilling you because the answer can be found in further pages. but you can mount your rebuttals as early as now.

I think prism's play recently fits much more cleanly into a scum trying to look town mindset, but to call it scummy would be a stretch.

start with this maybe. how is it that you read it as might be scum, but not scummy?

[humaneatingmonkey]

how do you judge that?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You don't seem super eager to engage here, which is fine with me but isn't going to help you sort me.

Also where did this come from?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Are you painting me as someone who isn't trying to sincerely engage you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity, I feel like you really can't say that I'm not trying to engage you because my entrance involved a direct quote and a question for you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think prism's play recently fits much more cleanly into a scum trying to look town mindset, but to call it scummy would be a stretch.

I might be misunderstanding this, but you say it is scum but it's not scummy?

Basically I'm saying her play is less towny than earlier but it could easily come from town so I don't really think it's scummy per se

Oh see you've answered it. How is this similar to your current answer that the town mindset is too believable? How do you judge that a town mindset is too believable?

[humaneatingmonkey]

This is a declaration of engagement.

[humaneatingmonkey]

721 is not written in a way I can engage with, you don't go into specifics or anything

that's confusing because all I've done was quote specific posts

[humaneatingmonkey]

The last line of 226 reads as desperate and I'm inclined to gladiate this, but I have a very bad tendency of keeping things going. Crying about context and not appreciating exactly how I am using the the difference -even if my conclusion is hypothetically wrong-also reads poorly.

I will take the time and consolidate my issues/stance in a single post if I still feel this way in a few hours.

oof my townread of Prism fell several stories after this post. coloring Hectic as desperate and crying feels scummy

[humaneatingmonkey]

Simpler restatement of 240: Debating the motivation for something I'm not doing in the first place is stupid.

My question was if he thought scum!you would push a fake read so aggressively so early in the game.

Both his read on you and your counter read on him appear to be meta based, and because I was not a part of any of these game being talked about, it is hard for me to personally look at them and parse how genuine or fake they are.

So, instead I am looking at how you have acted in this thread. And here, you have presented a read, and then fought for it very aggressively.

Having never played a game with you, I am comparing your actions to a baseline of how I would expect scum and town to act in the thread. And from that baseline, you pushing this hard seems more likely to be coming from a town who truly believes it, then from a scum who faked the read.

I am explicitly asking if, based on his meta with you, he thinks that you would be more likely to behave this way as scum then that baseline of scum I have in my head.

I am trying to figure out how he looked at your play so far this game, and ended up with a scum lean

this is town

[humaneatingmonkey]

[The thing that bothered me most from our interaction was that it almost felt like no matter what I was writing, or what reasons I was giving, Prism was finding a way to scumread it - whether it be I'm nervous/desperate/my read on her isn't legit etc, I felt it was forced and that's what gives me the feeling her read is fake. HOWEVER, I don't think scum!Prism would actually enter this game with the

goal

of scumreading me as some amazing strat, but I do think she'd happily take the opportunity if she thought I looked scummy enough to justify it.

Hectic could be town

[humaneatingmonkey]

As page 13 hits, this game gets a little more confusing and i'm having trouble reading at all. it might be because it's bedtime for me.

this is where i'm off. see you in 12 hours i guess

[humaneatingmonkey]

Like if people really want to elim me because they think there are no other options it sucks but I don't think I can fight that because I understand we have no time before deadline but I wish I'm given a chance here

As of now, I'm willing to elim between Infinity 324, Fidget, Child of Fairies and maybe maybe maybe Prism. But I'm still not past page 13. Please give me time to be in this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll be here shortly

[humaneatingmonkey]

We just discussed that liming me will set us back so I really don't understand how that's a slip

[humaneatingmonkey]

god i wish i really had more time before deadline. it's not like my flip will give anyone value at day 1 because Johnny was barely here. it's a free and easy lim for scum here

[humaneatingmonkey]

i am town prism i promise you

[humaneatingmonkey]

like im still not in the position to tell people who to vote because i don't have firm grasp of the game yet, and i hate that, but i'm not it

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's ambiguous whether "for scum" means they're the ones taking/driving it or not. Do you think scum is driving the wagon on you, or do you not really know at this point?

I think from the limited stuff that I've read that Infinity could be scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

i know

[humaneatingmonkey]

like, if i'm gonna choose between limming me and no lim, i will choose no lim because my flip is meaningless anyway

[humaneatingmonkey]

anyway, im just gonna finish my catch up. give me an hour

[humaneatingmonkey]

You can be skeptical. It's a fucking promise in a mafia game. I'm just trying really hard to communicate that I'm town right now.

I will resist this lim with all my might and I'm not going down without a fight.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism, the fact that you said you found a 2/2 split on me promising that I'm town and only quoted a scum seems to me that you're trying real hard to make that into a scumtell when it's NAI at worst

[humaneatingmonkey]

Your townflip means people are going to have to re-evaluate a lot of our townreads, which is going to be important for moving the game forward

If you're town, you have 8 townreads in a 9 player game. I think it's safe to say that you need to re-evaluate your townreads ASAP.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What information, Lukewarm? Come on be real with me. What will flipping my slot really accomplish for your reads?

It seems to me that you guys are just being lazy here. That's what's anti-town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm gonna fight this lim. If you're town, stay out of my lim if you're only gonna "compromise". I suggest you look elsewhere and create a counterwagon.

If I'm gonna be limmed today, I'm gonna make it as valuable as possible.

[humaneatingmonkey]

That's fine if you really think that I'm scum, and not just someone you want to elim because it's easier.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Tell me why I'm scum again, Prism

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity, your turn. Why am I scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm in my laptop now. I'll finish my re-read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Johnny

This is E-1.

I feel comfortable voting here without sorting Hectic, though a part of me is regretful that Johnny is on V/LA.

Prism puts Johnny at E-1 while he's V/LA and it's barely deadline? What value might she have to do this as town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Wouldn't be opposed to hammering the slot once Johnny gets a defense in if said defense isn't satisfactory, but if anybody hammers before he gets to post again I'd be very suspicious of that player.

I mean I'll solve the game as a stump if need be, not sure there's really anything to "defend" here so much as everyone's townreading eachother. I've got a funeral tomorrow so I won't have anything

super

productive to say until Mondayish

THIS. Why are people trying to lim this slot so bad

[humaneatingmonkey]

everyone is just ok with your elim.

Infinity, there's your clue.

[humaneatingmonkey]

But then again you might just be trying to lim me using that exact reason because you're scum here

it's okay. it's not like i'm going anywhere. I'll haunt you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What is your one scumpartner going to do to stop your elim

my scumpartner would be you, because on page 15, while Johnny is in deep shit, you attempt to make a confusing counterwagon against Prism

[humaneatingmonkey]

you get my point, Infinity. my slot was basically defenseless but it's not inherently scummy so there's a lot of opportunity to pull away from it if i had a scumpartner. IF I HAD a scumpartner.

I feel that at least your strong desire to not being limmed is fake

so my desire to not being limmed is fake? does that mean i want to be limmed?

[humaneatingmonkey]

you have 8 townreads. if it's not me, who is it?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i play to win. surviving this lim will probably be the most effort i'll give this game because after i'm an IC, i'm gonna be bored as hell

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm doing it right now. currently in page 20.

[humaneatingmonkey]

what was that about voting prism, thinking they're scum, and then being super apologetic like you're being scolded like a child?

[humaneatingmonkey]

skimming fidget i feel like she's taking stances when it's suitable and sort of pushing and prodding around at everything else which, early on there are only so many things to really *believe* in but it comes across as opportunistic and i don't really get a sense of what she's thinking, even if she's explaining things in thread. it's hollow words to me right now.

Amen

[humaneatingmonkey]

currently in page 20.

20-ish. I just realized I'm in 16.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I just don't get why you're so much more emotionally attached to surviving than finding scum which you can do after you're dead

PEdit: how was I apologetic at all, prism said that too and idk how you can interpret my posting that way

I was talking about Page 16. Your back to back with Prism.

I'm emotionally attached to making my lim as hard as possible because I want people to take an actual stance in voting me not because it's easy

[humaneatingmonkey]

Consider in my perspective that my slot is just an easy lim to pick on because it's been the least active one and all of you already "towntold" (which is BS because there isn't 8 town). If I just roll-over, my lim will be meaningless as fuck and we're down by one mislim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If by your own admission that you think scum can towntell too, please reconsider what it means to towntell.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's cool to me that Ydrasse is not using her game apathy to put a half-hearted vote on me and then ditching when she could do exactly that and I think that makes her more likely to be town

[humaneatingmonkey]

I really want to believe that Prism is town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity's whole vote and sorting process on Prism did not make sense and my face was squinting the entire time. Infinity had a gut scumread on Prism based on the fact that she thought Prism was trying to make Hectic townread her. But when Prism gets pushed in a limmable position, she remarks that it's unlikely for scum!Prism to be put in this position too early because she thinks Prism would have performed better (although she admits she does not know about Prism's scum game). I can't articulate why this doesn't feel like an actual process of evaluation happened here, which is a recurring theme in what I've been seeing in Infinity's play thus far. Is this just how she plays, or is this performance by the two? The result of this was that Prism survived and Infinity relented, so gun to my head this is TvT or SvS. If it was TvS, that 1v1 would have lead to a more combative and that could have been enough to push the game into a choice between the two.

[humaneatingmonkey]

To me it feels like monkey is criticizing all 6 of my townreads without knowing the reasoning behind any of them and I don't have a way to dig into any of them atm so it's pretty annoying

I'm getting there. I also don't need to know what your reasoning is because I can already guarantee you you're wrong about 2 of them.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Imagine I already flipped.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think Prism is town, so I'm thinking you're town as well. Doing that back-to-back was so unnecessary if you were scum that I'm inclined to believe you're town for it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think that if you were scum, you would have been able to sustain pressure on Prism there but instead you relented.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Or... did I misunderstand keypoints in that back-to-back

[humaneatingmonkey]

14 to 20

[humaneatingmonkey]

just imagine: you guys are in 24 hours before deadline. I was still barely in page 13. it feels like i'm playing 2 games in which i'm trying to read the game to make sense of it, and trying to get people to commit to voting me rather than just making me an easy lazy lynch. that's why i ask you to give me a chance.

[humaneatingmonkey]

No one has good SRs

Please reconsider your townreads! ISO them. IDK. Just please disabuse yourself of this notion that there's 8 town in a 9 player game. Scum is probably playing a very very good game right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Fidget's reads in #484 and #485 gives a lot of leeway on herself to flip her reads on some slots. Like she'd call a slot town, and then give a scenario that they're scum. It just doesn't seem like an actual stance to me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

even #486 and #487.

Actually I'll just re-quote it so it's fresh for your memory.

Sure being an object of focus is kinda "nyeh" but I also am unsure I've exhibited too much I couldn't do as scum. The aforementioned not just sitting on you is fair though. I'm more referring to Hectic, T3, whoever else having me as decent town early. I would kill to know why although it's partially my curiosity asking as I'm not certain it will be productive or not.

Prism I believe I've seen you play scum a couple other times, I remember reading a couple of your posts from a recent normal and a newbie I think and wondering how scum could possibly post those things. Even just skimming the post you linked here I'm wondering about what your approach would be here to control the narrative, and I need a lot of evidence that you're trying and failing to control the narrative to satisfactorily answer the question of "what the hell happened for scum!prism to get into this situation?" I wouldn't call it a townread yet, but

It feels like you're arguing why Prism could be scum rather than why Prism is scum. You've mentioned this before that Prism has a wide scumrange, and that's certainly fair, although exactly why you find Prism scummy has been unclear to me. You've countered reasons for townreading Prism, but what's your suspicion? I suppose it's a gut level read and hard to articulate. My point is just that it seems like you're countering "Prism couldn't be scum" logic more than addressing why Prism is scum in the first place.

I don't totally get the case against Prism.

Johhny, Faries, and Prism are my top 3 scum after a reread.

What changed in this 14 min game here?

Like what did you see in the reread that you missed the first time?

Another thing that draws me to townreading T3. If you're scum keeping track of reads, I feel like one of your most prevalent forged reads would be the very last post you made 10 min ago.

I get that opportunism is a thing but so blatant and unnecessary seems like and odd move. Prism didn't need more attackers, especially when my stance and Infinity's are still unclear or leaning suspecting.

This is a pretty dumb take by me if T3 really is scum and genuinely just isn't keeping track of their faked reads and posts whatever on the fly. It's possible, I just find it less likely compared to inconsistent town thoughts at the moment. Cause I see (and feel that myself) as town all the time.

Oh I missed it since you quoted a bunch of stuff to me

I said I was waiting for fidget to townpost but she hasn't yet

fair

yeah i’m just waiting on some good takes

Out of curiosity, do you either of you two know who I am? I don't respond to guesses or anything but some people just know.

On one hand, waiting for me to show my true colours is a tried and true tactic since there is a distinct difference when I turn on. On the other, it doesn't typically happen on the first day. I just found it moderately interesting you're both taking an interest with me this way.

So who are you thinking about/wanting to look at right now? I imagine there are still thoughts about me swirling around, but curious as to where you go from here.

My feelings on Johnny are pretty much in stasis as I don't believe he's come back since then. He's.. probably my current guess. He got traction quite easily, but I can buy that from D1 in a game where he'd only have one partner. And there's been you as a counter, so whatever.

In my mind, Johnny TMIing you and Hectic as town is probably my favored view of the game, and his partner is just whoever. Don't really have an opinion there.

I could be falling into a trap of townreading the actives but I'm at least inclined to say I'm not, I felt decent about my Hectic lean and I don't really have an opinion on you outoide of gut but the threads relative ease towards killing you bolsters my confidence slightly.

Out of the rest of the cast I think Lukewarm and T3 are most town and I'm gray on Infinity, ydrasse, and Fairies. I had tiny points in favor of the first two earlier in the game but nothing that makes me feel fantastic.

Actually yeah there was more with Infinity with regards to her approach to your wagon that seemed genuine to me though, forgot abt that yesterday. I'd probably say she's a bit less likely, I don't think her stances towards you were *quite* necessary. After a town elim on you that seems like a lot of stress for relatively little gain. Feel more likely it's town that believes you're scum but without a good reason why. Not certain though

If Fairy and Johnny are my bottom players though that is really just less active players = scummier, sigh. Johnny suspicion still likely my best lead at the moment. Guess it falls apart if I'm reading you or Hectic wrong.

[humaneatingmonkey]

like “i think this person is scum/has some bad takes/etc” and sees them voting someone and goes “well i wouldn’t be opposed but we should give them time but if it’s not good enough fine we can kill the slot.”

maybe it’s the fact child is interacting like that with someone they don’t trust and don’t consider the implications of said person voting someone else.

i’m trying to work out in my head if child/johnny could be together based on that because it feels like child doesn’t really want johnny dead but is willing to bite the bullet given his absence/lack of control on the game.

I agree

[humaneatingmonkey]

Unvoting isn't set in stone and gives a lot of flexibility, but she did not wind up revoting and here we are

She couldn't because momentum died when Infinity moved on.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't feel I can defend her any further without revisiting, though, which I might do later tonight.

Please do!

[humaneatingmonkey]

T3 reads opportunistic scum to me, but since everybody else seems to be content to have him as a backburner read right now I don't see much of an incentive to try and push on him.

why not?

[humaneatingmonkey]

page 24. you guys are right. it's not obvious that anyone is super scummy. this game is hard.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I really want to believe that Prism is town.

Given the extremely polarized reaction to Infinity questioning me about Hectic, it is surprising to see it mostly pass without incident for you. It was very hard to follow the argument even for me, whose reasoning was the most convoluted to begin with, so I imagine it being difficult to parse on a catch-up.

sorry i don't follow can you repeat

[humaneatingmonkey]

Still at page 27. Willing to elim between Fidget, Child, Hectic. If you guys really want to stump me, I'm cool with it now but please win the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Everyone else had a very strong reaction to what I was saying on page 15/16 one way or another. You key in a bit on Infinity's reaction with the unvote but it was odd to me to see the rest about me/Hectic pass mostly without judgement.

i did react to it though?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Mostly I was just frustrated that I'm being put in a corner immediately as I replace in and I haven't even fully read the thread, but upon reading the game further, I understand that it's really a hard game and my slot is an important slot to flip so mostly I just trust Prism to turn the game around once I'm stumped

[humaneatingmonkey]

To be clear, I don't think anyone in the lobby has only you listed as possbile scum, but everyone in the lobby does have you on their list.

Infinity

[humaneatingmonkey]

Willing to elim between Fidget, Child, Hectic.

this can still change.

[humaneatingmonkey]

sorry i've been reading a lot but i'm no closer to an answer. it's a colossal task. i really tried though.

i am willing to sheep Prism and Infinity. If they're voting me, I just won't vote at all. UNVOTE:

[humaneatingmonkey]

From my re-read, the only thing that I can say with 100% certainty is that Prism vs Infinity page 14 to page 20 is super unnecessary as scum and the only explanation is you're both town. I'm willing to bet this game on it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

the thing that I find you scummy for is that your progression or process doesn't seem like it's a real thing but you've been very consistent with it that I'm willing to write it off as a playstyle.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if i'm wrong, you can link Curb Your Enthusiasm theme song

[humaneatingmonkey]

Let's talk about who I won't elim. I won't elim you and Prism. I'll be cool with Child or Fidget. I'll hesitate with T3 and Hectic (I think Hectic looked good when he came back from V/LA). I'll deeply hesitate with Ydrasse and Lukewarm.

I basically gave up at around page 28. It was just too much mafia at too little time.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Deadline expires in

(expired on 2021-06-13 21:58:45).

Attention please. I'm having an evening with my girlfriend right now, but I will be here in 6 hours.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll jump back right into my catch-up as soon as I can.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hey I think I totally won't be able to join you guys tonight, but I'll just catch up later stumped or not. I have to prioritize something Just tell me where to vote.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism are you counting nightless vanilla where I also promised that I'm town

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have no problem being the IC, if only that clears my slot from the PoE. I also don't think we should elim anyone if the only goal is to make them into an IC, especially if there's reason to think they're town. For example Prism is wrong about me now, so there's a lot of opportunities for her to be wrong in the future. Being confirmed doesn't mean you would suddenly have awesome reads that we can sheep.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm really sleepy so all I could do is skim. I'll be back tomorrow.

[humaneatingmonkey]

To answer you Prism: I've always townread you from the get-go on my catch-up. But from the game that's happening live near the deadline, I was suspicious of how aggressive you were on my slot because there were no real alternatives and I was only scum for you because I'm inactive. Like I said, I was playing 2 games on my entrance.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Right, my reads are horrendous if you are town, and I was never a good choice to sheep.

It's better to trust someone you think is town for sure and have a conversation with them, but people are acting like it's a good trade-off to giving up an miselim when you can just lim slots that you actually think is town

[humaneatingmonkey]

think is town

think is scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

not really why. It also leaves a gap where my townread tanked when I started pushing Hectic.

this i can explain. my impression was that you were sincerely trying your best to sort each slots and it doesn't seem like you were just trying to park your vote on someone who would fold under the pressure you're creating so that you can score a park for your vote. but when you colored hectic in such a negative manner that i wasn't empathizing at all, it felt very forced i thought that you were trying to score a lim there. hectic or not, it felt very predatory.

[humaneatingmonkey]

guys i really can't do this tonight i need to sleep so see you

[humaneatingmonkey]

...And then? You swap to the hardest TR/sheep me+Infinity after that.

Prism i explained this already

[humaneatingmonkey]

Likely will still be going tomorrow, see you then.

thanks prism

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm town

[humaneatingmonkey]

sorry Prism

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's okay you were trying your best

[humaneatingmonkey]

you would never have left my tunnel either way because you're too convinced I'm scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

how much trolling should scum do after being hammered

[humaneatingmonkey]

If monkey is scum he found the correct angle to approach this game really quickly, but maybe I'm overestimating the difficulty of realizing that the game is hard and going "idk the game is hard" believably.

I'll take this compliment

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sure, I think he executed it better than the average scum player probably would

thanks infinity

[humaneatingmonkey]

GG town you guys will win this, and i will hate it

[humaneatingmonkey]

that said please flip scum oh god

[humaneatingmonkey]

Fuck me. An impossible game in an impossible slot.

this game is brutal for scum.
if town can post after death, scum should be able to post after death
Noraa, i wanted to set up skitter → hectic → ydrasse for my scum partner, but i never had the chance to verbalize it so it's sad (because child wasn't communicating with me). that's why i didn't actually try to contribute to a counterwagon, so that they can't read into it. i could have pointed out my bussing meta on my scum partner so they can use it as a narrative. alas.

i think i would have had a better chance at deepwolfing myself if i had the opportunity to start the game from the beginning. alas.

GG Town. Not my best performance. Prism, you should teach me how to play this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, everyone complimenting my scum game and saying how I'm valuable feels so sarcastic because I failed to save myself

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think townreading me/Infinity was a mistake

Townreading you two was the reason I got the 180. Everyone mindmelded with me all in one swoop. But what killed me was the declaration that I wasn't going to vote until you two did. That was overkill, and I shouldn't have done that.

Also, I replaced at a time where I 100% didn't have the time to save myself. I think if I was 100% prepared to be in this situation, I could. But I didn't read the game prior to replacing in

[humaneatingmonkey]

My plan to get you to townread me was point out that you are tunnelling and that you are an egocentric person who didn't want to be wrong. But I was on a date.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism is a boss

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism, how do you read slots? I genuinely want your help on this because I'm a charismatic bulldozer as town, but it's the same style that scum take advantage of because they can easily hide under me. my reads are based on gut and determining if the process/POV is genuine/viable. I think my methods are a bit outdated or I still don't understand some aspects of reading.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism, how do you read slots? I genuinely want your help on this because I'm a charismatic bulldozer as town, but it's the same style that scum take advantage of because they can easily hide under me. my reads are based on gut and determining if the process/POV is genuine/viable. I think my methods are a bit outdated or I still don't understand some aspects of reading.

I also have a very bad case of OMGUS tunnelling as town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Spoiler: About self-votes

Self-votes are scum claims and you should avoid using it as AtE

[humaneatingmonkey]

Town can also scum claim out of emotions, but good town shouldn't scum claim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Self-votes are also different to self-hammers. I'm not trying to hound you here. Just saying that your scum equity increases by a metric ton when you self-vote.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I can testify to it. I've caught scum this way. Self-votes are usually accompanied by an emotion that is very difficult to fake without burning bridges. Meanwhile, it's very easy to spot a fake AtE self-vote imo.

[humaneatingmonkey]

rate my emotions around the self vote. I was trying imagine what pooky would say and that's what I ended up with

if you want to put yourself in the position that you would self-vote and it would look genuine, pick a fight with someone. not just a fight about the game or your alignment, but about how unfair they're being to you and how hurt your ego etc. that's the emotion that leads to self-destructive town behavior.

[humaneatingmonkey]

create a believable story about the person behind your slot when you make moves that you want people to townread. but be aware that emotional play is just a side of scum play. there's tons of stuff you need to cover (like progressions, mechanical, etc.) that you need to back up as well. everything needs to be flawless so you can be a good scum.

i'm still not at this level of play, but I'm not a bad actor.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Town won by embarrassing a lot

[humaneatingmonkey]

Fun for town, not fun for scum yet. Could be fun if scum is allowed to speak in mafia PT post-death.