Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Noraa]

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

[Noraa]

D: I missed mon again

[Noraa]

I repped in thinking that was a scum slot. I had my great plan to steamroll hectic while he's rusty since he hasn't played with me recently. Oh well. I'll get you next time just you wait!!!!

[Noraa]

NOOOOO I MISSED FIDGET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How could she just rep out before I repped in?!

[Noraa]

I'm a tree! Firmly planted in the ground. Very ancient and wise. Much cooler than all the other trees especially you because I'm a pink tree :O

[Noraa]

Thank you for purchasing from our shop! Come back next time wearing one of our 100% recycled t-shirts that you purchased today for 20% off on one item.

[Noraa]

I love your avatar, Lukewarm

VOTE: Fidget

Requesting a 1v1. Think the "nyah" could be setting up for a future discredit down the line

[Noraa]

Ydrasse and hectic's conversations make me think they're both the same alignment which is impossible if they are scum so that means they are probably both town? I think if there's scum, it's hectic but I'm not revealing the reason yet otherwise I'll get tunneled. I should have a solid read on infinity bc she's my soul mason but I don't and that's weirding me tf out. Like she's being strange. Idk I'll wait some more. I should be able to read her >:(

Prism feels scummy????? Why do people townread her? Every single one of her posts reminds me of Cabd in that one game where he was deacon blues that cakey hosted.
Lukewarm is pretty eh. He's contributing a lot less to the game than when I last saw him. I'll set him to the side because Prism is so much scummier. Literally why/does anyone townread Prism?

[Noraa]

Subject: revO emaG - TENET

I also want to compliment Noraa and state that I think her scum range is evolving in a similar growth pattern as mine did back in 2014.

Subject: revO emaG - TENET

??? Why are you disappointed in me, that was a compliment that I see some of myself in you, you silly gooseling.

Subject: revO emaG - TENET

i've read you prefere town

She claims to, but I think she has a secret place in her heart for a red PM.

Anyways, agree that we probably just leave it aside for now.

Subject: revO emaG - TENET

Noraa, I’ve disengaged and I’m not restarting it. You trying to kick it back up is awful for the gamestate regardless of alignment.

I mean arguably if she is scum, then it's perfect because the apathy generation is HUGE gainz.

If she's town though she's decided to pull out a shotgun, shoot herself in the foot, and then aim the second shot at her other one.

Subject: revO emaG - TENET

Noraa, we a little calmer and able to talk, now?

[Noraa]

Ydrasse do you really believe you flipping scum in oka's game would have no effect on my read on you here

I wanted to vote you, your soul stare on me yesterday was really unimpressive but I buy your increased motivation today ig

PEdit: noraa it's ok no one can read me

Just based off the fact that Ydrasse is TRing Hectic and vice versa means they're probably the same alignment. They can't both be scum that's impossible. So that means they are probably both town unless one developed their scum range a shitton recently. And I think that IF one of them is scum, it's gotta be hectic. I recently played a game with Super
Her play was a mirror of ydrasse's and ydrasse is probably town here since I feel like I'm playing that game all over again here with ydra.

[Noraa]

If prism is scum she did a great job of drawing attention to herself so she can either a. get eliminated or b. get townread and have people wonder why she's still alive by endgame. She also hardbussed her only buddy on d1. I don't think prism is scum

PEdit: ydrasse developed her scumrange a shitton recently

Did she lead the HEM wagon? Link me to where the HEM wagon started. Uh noe Ydra is my one townread right now. We are not falling down the paranoia rabbit hole right this moment.

[Noraa]

I would say give Infinity a second look, because she is my most confident town read, and has been since like page 16.

I haven't even read to page 16 but I also suspect Infinity is town because of one of her recent posts.

[Noraa]

This looks a little silly back to back, seeing as how I am the person who was most vocally and aggressively scum reading Prism Day 1. But I am happy to have someone scum reading me now, I have been asking for that for a while !!!

I don't understand. There is only one scum left so it's impossible that you are scum with Prism. I'm calling both of you scummy. What does that have to do with you calling Prism scummy? Honestly, even if she started the HEM wagon, I still think she's scum because her tone feels really really manipulative. I'd believe she messed up a distancing plan over just about anything else.

Who has prism as their top TR? I want to have an argument with that person.

[Noraa]

While I get that perspective, and really want a strong IC if we're wrong today, chances are we're both town and I think HEM flips scum and we solve that problem for you that way.

totally unbiased tl;dr vote hem or ydrasse they're both scum

child/t3 are great runnerups due to sparser posting but are absolutely not who we want as an IC if wrong

I think this back and forth is TvT and I am all the more determined to force through HEM.

Skitter is right that she doesn't go after Hectic here. High chance he tunnels her after flip and town is likely to listen to IC Hectic

Hectic's reaction is very inline with what I saw when I pushed him in Chara's Folly and I don't share the same concern about the compromise voting that Skitter does. Not only do I agree with his comment that him backing off of Child was town, but I think the last page was the most town he has been all game.

I made some last minute tennis plans so I am unlikely to really be around later. I strongly, strongly want HEM even though I think any of Ydrasse/T3/Child could potentially flip scum.

So settle for HEM.

This is the most confident, and I actually mean confident, I have been in a very long time.

I don't see what's towny here. I just see "HEM is scum but three other people are great options too"
It's a great scum tactic. A lot of people. Well that's not accurate. I do this thing where when someone says something, I get ten different wifom thoughts in like a couple minutes, overthink, and do the opposite of what they say. If they say to do someone and some other people are scummy, I'm so much more likely to vote the other people. I feel like Prism just messed up and didn't know how to get out of this situation without looking scummy so she just suggested other people subtly in literally every post. Not so subtle lmao

[Noraa]

Noraa I'm gonna be honest, that doesn't really make much sense. Yes prism gave other options but she made it very clear that she was very confident in monkey and it was one of the motivating factors that led me to vote him, and thereby lukewarm as well. (I don't remember if luke actually voted monkey but he had pledged his vote to me). Tbh if prism was pushing hectic or skitter or maybe child it likely would've gone through. But even if not prism was widely TRed enough to survive a bit longer even if her associatives to monkey were really suspicious. It just wasn't worth it to bus there. I don't think prism will be or should be a consideration today

I have a lot of issues with a lot of her posts though. Early game, her posts all give me nostalgia from Cabd's posts. I feel like that is so incriminating on like ten different levels. I am 100% tunneled. But I mostly want to have this discussion with someone super confident that she is town.

[Noraa]

@Nora, I would say read from 1089 -> 1109

It is a fairly quick back and forth, but it is very clear that we are getting close to the deadline, I am pushing Infinity for me and her to vote together so we could consolidate votes and actually get a wagon through, and Prism chose to pull us to her wagon, instead of just joining our voting block.

will do.

[Noraa]

Meanwhile the single scumgame you saw of mine, Draft Mafia

what?

[Noraa]

Yeah noraa, reading up might help

Yeah noraa, reading up might help

I really don't want to read 43 pages, sorry. Like I legitimately don't have the time because exams. After my last newbie game, I was planning to not do any games in the following week. I just wanted to come fool hectic but then I got trolled because this was town slot. I was so certain this was scum so I could come in and bs some stuff up but now I'm stuck with actually having to figure out who scum is.

I've looked over some stuff and the issue is that today's options are me and Skitter, both of which are probably town. Prior to coming in, the opening days posts all looked like united town to a degree that I had suspicions on Prism and Lukewarm and Hectic but it just looked like game solved. But Skitter was someone that I thought was town so now I'm just here like who tf is scum. I mean if Prism actually isn't scum, which I mean is possible since I've been pretty certain prism was scum since I saw literally like her first two posts, then Lukewarm is just deep wolf and this game is a loss no matter what lmao.

Idk I wish Pooky was here.

[Noraa]

Prism was willow1

oh wow I'm surprised hm. I need to think about that. Willow was super chill. It's not the same vibe that Prism is giving off here. The only similarity is probably that they are both TRed a lot. Hm. I've got to go but I'll think about it.

[Noraa]

Have a pink tree to calm down!

[Noraa]

Anyways I'm off. More studying to do. Prism, if you're not scum, I'll see it eventually.

[Noraa]

There is legitimately no good reason for skitter to townread me here if she is scum. There is none. Right now, people mostly agree we are limming one of her or me? There's no reason to be town reading me here as scum. Literally none. I admit, I am much harder to lim than my predecessor from what I've seen but there is still no reason to townread me. Even leaving me to be a mislim option later and setting that up now is > than being like Noraa is probably town.

Saying that is the equivalent of being like kill me today which isn't scum mindset in any universe. Actually, you know what. I like Lukewarm as last scum since Prism seems legitimately angry with me. Lukewarm has called everyone that joined the HEM wagon town. It seems to be somewhat widely accepted now but on and off wagon is not really AI in a setup like this. I would like to hear other reasons people are town/scum because right now it sounds like "they were on wagon. they're town" which is like 2D logic that misses so much. Lukewarm has kinda just closed off the option of on wagon people being scum which sets up a lot of miseliminations actually. We can RP it out.

Skitter is scum!
Skitter's a tree stump now
Noraa is scum!
Noraa's a tree stump now
Oh wow it seems like there was scum on the wagon after all.
It must be Infinity!
Game over.

I don't understand why not being on the wagon is 100% incriminating. Scum busing is absolutely an option and you doesn't seem to consider it at all. In my last game with you, I felt deeper analysis than this extremely shallow surface level wagon analysis. Also your arguments that Skitter is scum make zero sense. Skitter could totally be scum but she's scum for ... lying about not thinking hectic was a viable wagon yesterday? Wtf is that supposed to mean??????? This whole argument reads extremely NAI and generates no useful information.

Also why are you going around quoting your posts that look scummy af? Like you linked me to a post that says "lets yeet hectic" and quoted it for skitter too. And I don't get it. Why would town do that? I see no reason town would be quoting like scummy posts of their own? TSTBS tactic has popped up in my head more than once at this point.

I want to see Lukewarm address this.

[Noraa]

Also given that I am town, the possibility of scum bussing goes up by a shitton. If people think I'm town, they should start considering the options of scum on the HEM wagon because I'm fairly certain that is the case here. Skitter is probably town because the way scum reacts to scum reads doesn't look like this. Skitter's whole vibe in the posts that I've seen has just been very annoyed but not trying to show it. It's the feeling I get when there is a fly buzzing around. I wouldn't be making it all dramatic because life isn't a movie but I would be annoyed. And that subtle annoyance that Skitter is radiating is towny.

[Noraa]

and he's arguign that i thought that hectic was viable yesterday even though i was *saying* i didn't, and that i was trying to divert off of hem onto hectic

My point stands. What useful AI information would that generate?

[Noraa]

I'll give the thread time to breathe. I also want to know what Hectic's read on skitter is. And Lukewarm.

[Noraa]

So the question is Fairy Child or skitter for the clean sweep

The only thing that gives me doubt regarding skitter is Fidget's towniness and the fact I'd be horribly wrong on reading her for the first time in forever £_£

[Noraa]

"lets destroy the town block in the game"

If skitter is not scum, that town block has deep wolf. And I don't think skitter is scum. That town block isn't fully town and I'm 99.999% sure of it.

[Noraa]

So the question is Fairy Child or skitter for the clean sweep

The only thing that gives me doubt regarding skitter is Fidget's towniness and the fact I'd be horribly wrong on reading her for the first time in forever £_£

My point being that exactly one person said that, and you were left thinking that the entire thread felt that way.

Right after that post, people started voting skitter. I figured it was consensus? I do feel pretty self conscious as scum. This isn't really what it looks like. I would be AtEing here instead of explaining and also overreactions would be more plentiful. Could be the aftereffects of thinking this slot is scum also. I'm inclined to give you townpoints for this but I also feel like it's interesting timing. Then the "I don't want to vote first" is super scummy but you just said it in the thread. I can't tell if this is real TSTBS or fake TSTBS. I don't get your refusal to believe the town block isn't all town but I do have more information than you(namely that I'm town), so ig if we swapped places, I might also not trust myself? Your vibe is just different from the last game we were in but you did die day 1 there. mmmmmmm fuck this. I'm flipping my read on you to town. Don't let me down.

[Noraa]

Who do you think is in the town block?

You-Infinity-Prism-Ydrasse-Hectic
is what seemed to be the town block. I now realize that people don't agree on ydrasse and hectic but I mean, the way they interacted early game seemed pretty T-T to me. I would have them in the town block but with paranoia on hectic for, again, an unrevealed reason. I need to have him post in here first plus I already have too many SRs as it is since we haven't even gone over my SR on T3.

I'm shelving that for now since there's something else I'm more interested in rn.

[Noraa]

I am surprised that when you reached "I think skitter is town" that you then decided the "town block isn't fully town and I'm 99.999% sure of it" Without first considering Hectic or Ydra

When I read the first couple pages, their interactions looked pretty natural so I just shoved them into the town block. It's iffy.
Like I think Infinity is probtown but my one reservation is that I'm not 100% certain which is annoying.
You. Your vibe is different. But this situation is also different. In the last game, no one was decisive enough to lead town so they gave me a robe and crown and were like Ok Noraa you're the queen now and I was like shitshitshit so much power what do I do.
This game, I'm a replacement and you've been here longer so the overall vibe is going to be different even if only because of that. There's something that I'm missing but you do feel different. Do you have any idea why? I'll think on it.
Prism ... I was dead certain she was scum but then she got really really mad and that kind of shocked me and I'm not sure what to think. My brain says I should question her some more but my heart says no this is town that was real anger.

Hectic and ydrasse did sound very natural in the first couple pages. Like the heavy manipulation vibe is generally a good sign and you're not really supposed to know what's going on exactly. But I'm pretty certain that if one of them is scum, it's hectic. Again, I'm not saying the reason rn.
T3. Ugh. I'm not going to read into him right now.

[Noraa]

I've been so conflicted by T3 that I forgot he existed for half this game LMFAO. Lovely.
Well, I'll get into that read later but the gist of it is that
as town, he has not great play and I can't really read play styles like that.

[Noraa]

Goddamn it, having someone scum read me definitely helps me be more engaged with the game lol.

Back to the 'universally town read, but also unable to push wagons' space I was in before

lmao I would not eat a shoe if you flipped scum. I would however claim all of the credit for catching scum even if I end up doing close to nothing to contribute. Since I was the first to SR you, it's only fair.

[Noraa]

I'm pretty certain that if one of them is scum, it's hectic.

You didn't acknowledge my point about ydrasse getting way better as scum recently

Not saying she's scum here, still feel like it's skitt, but still. I feel like ydrasse is more likely than hectic

I don't know how to reply to this. It's just a feeling. I'll try to explain it through some quotes.

[Noraa]

I'm pretty certain that if one of them is scum, it's hectic.

You didn't acknowledge my point about ydrasse getting way better as scum recently

Not saying she's scum here, still feel like it's skitt, but still. I feel like ydrasse is more likely than hectic

I have seen Ydra as scum in exactly 2 games, and I am left feeling like she is the single best scum player I have seen so far on site. So, it does make it hard for me to give her a town read this game

She is good but you have not seen the real beast. Trust me. Once you meet pooky, you will think the whole universe is a lie. The world is a lie. Humans are a lie. Existence is a lie. Pooky is the scariest scum in the world. I could catch him on day 1 and never be able to get him killed. That's how good he is but he is also the one person who as town, understands me to heaven, hell and back and I love my fellow brown bear. He is the bestest!

[Noraa]

Noraa you got better! No matter your alignment. I like this noraa

Thank you that means a lot to me. I recently was actually reading through some of my past games. I recently met a very toxic player(we are not naming names and I am not trying to attack anyone everyone goes through phases and I understand) but it really struck deep realizing what my play had evolved into. I looked through some past games. Prism might've reminded me of cabd because that was a game that I recently read actually. Reading that game hurt my soul. It hurt so bad realizing how bad my play was and just how terrible I could be. Ok this is a discussion for a different place but this does mean a lot to me. I'd like to think my play is no longer a toxic shitfest of the most useless garbage. AHH ok I need to stop. I kept doing this recently. but this means a lot. it really really does.

[Noraa]

Back to ydrasse. I skimmed her iso when I repped in and I just reskimmed it and was reminded of why I townread her. This post. This one post specifically. Um I'll explain if people don't get it but this post is very towny. Like godtier level towny and I learned from my last game that if my heart says this is 100% town, flush that paranoia down the toilet. That person is town.

i'm struggling to figure out why i townread prism but, i do; maybe it's a combination of her reaction to being ran up, or the way she's approaching... breaking down this game? it's hard for me to figure out how to read past the like... tone, or lack thereof since a lot of the fat is cut off. but i like what's going on. i think it's also an uphill battle in this table to push the people that she is and could definitely play 'safer' i.e. just letting the thing with hectic go eventually, commit to keeping tabs on lower content slots.

prism has a good scumgame but it feels like she's just trying to solve instead of manipulate. theoretically her choosing an 'unsafe' route is confidence + threat management but, i don't know.

[Noraa]

have played with scum pooky. I scum read them, and helped lead the elimination against them (along side catboi)

I played against scum Ydra, and she became town read by literally 9 out of 9 players in the game. Literally. The game had one vote where it was actually "vote for a town" instead of the normal eliminate scum, and she won that vote. She was by so universally town read that she easily won a "vote the person who is most likely town" vote.

mmmmmmmmm. Well, I mean, I understand your paranoia but if you don't townread her, then that might just mean she's town? #Noraalogic
Lemme quote some super posts. They are the reason I TR ydra

[Noraa]

Ok Lukewarm and me vibing. Soul mason acquired yayyyyyyyyy

[Noraa]

Spoiler: Super posts

So I guess that means that Noraa, Unwnd, and Super are our major suspects, but we've got a 1/3rd chance of being in a game with a mafia-roleblocker (and jailkeeper), so I guess I'm not 100% ruled out? (I mean, I am town, but I'm not confirmed yet I guess)
But I'm down for trusting James if no one else claims

is this like a partial slip? cos wouldn't mafia already know the setup at this point with James' claim? (mafia would know they don't have a rolecop so it'd have to be a JK and you didn't say that town could also have a potential friendsly neighbour??)

well i guess it's not a slip ..... cos you said 1/3rd

idk

idk

zyla are you townnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

you know what? fuck it. I feel pretty confident in saying Nora is town here so I'm just going to claim and say I'm a villager - the jailkeeper should claim because it is either Zyla/Unwnd and that to me is autowin (since it'd just be the last villager claim FMPOV since I'm feeling fairly good about Nora being town here and if I'm wrong then I can deal with that later on)

obviously it's only autowin here if my read on Nora is right and town also townread me but I'm feeling good about it

I'm leaning more on Zyla being scum because I read HEM as fairly towny D1 and also I will note that when Catboi started pushing on Orc D2 on entry HEM immediately took away his scumread on JAckson (Catboi) and started pushin on Orc as well (I don't see why he would do this to his partner)

sorry for claiming, Nora already did and I feel pretty confident we can vote out mafia today, if I've fucked up I'm sorry - I haven't played noob mechanics before and I'm getting the hang of the setups but I think based on my reads this is most optimal FMPOV (SINCE I'm feeling so good about Nora being town)

so either Nora lied and is JK or James didn't get roleblocked?

or Zyla is JK and just is engaging weirdly

Nora is puking town here, she literally sounds like me

Nora link some scumgames of yours bbcakes, I wanna see how much energy you have as scum >:(

I would've preferred an easier game but generally speaking Navigator was my strongest TR and nothing about Noraa's game so far makes me doubt that.

I guess you TR Nora pretty hard then?

so you might think I'm scum? but maybe you're scared of pushing me cos you know how towny I am too? MUWAHAGAGAAa!????

that doesn't make you look the best Nora Dora

I understand paranoia, I'm one of the most paranoid town players in the world. but at this point in the game I'd rather ignore that paranoia since we have a ML and if it comes down to us being CCs I will handle that then but right now I hard TR your ass so I don't want your paranoia to fuck with my own reads/head

Super and I had this whole
Me: Super is so towny but what if she's scum
Super: I feel the same about you
Me: Well now I think you're scum
Super: Don't worry honey buns I feel the same way about you but you'll never get me elimed because I have a good town track record
Me: Now I'm more paranoid
Super: I'm only 55% certain ur town now
Me: I'm not even 55% sure ur town
Super: Noraa, if you're scum, I'm winning
Me: Maybe we should lim super then

conclusion: trust your heart. If your heart says towny town town, its town. Period. Don't question it otherwise paranoia will overcome you. What is mafia if there are no risks?

[Noraa]

I'll bite. I don't really think skitter is scum but it doesn't matter. Like if skitter is scum, game over and I placed the hammer so double bonus. If skitter is town, we're still in an okay position since we hit scum day 1. I'm not worried.
Pedit: I didn't even finish okay then

[Noraa]

Skitter better be scum. That way I don't even have to catch up :O

[Noraa]

I also placed an air hammer so Infinity and I can share the credits.

[Noraa]

I am not, see y'all tomorrow

YIKES. And now I have to read

[Noraa]

And hectic is probably scum also. I'll try to type the case before thread closes but this is a bookmark for now.

[Noraa]

Can we at least do fast night plz

Yeah fast night please.

[Noraa]

Yeah fast night

LOCKTOWNNNNNNNNN SOUL MASON
it can't be coincidence.

[Noraa]

Sigh
Fwiw i'm sus of both hectic and nakata

Nakata isnt scum. Scum don't just rep in and vote the largest wagon.

[Noraa]

Nvm im not writing hectic's case rn. I want to tell prism something instead.
Prism. You say Super has a very scary scum game right? I read super correctly in my last game with her. Also ydrasse is not super, their play style's are VERY similar. Why do you think it's not right to TR ydrasse here?
I paranoia'd myself to hell and back with super and I feel the exact same here. Everyone is suspicious of ydrasse just like Super was scum's counter wagon. I don't think that we should treat them with more caution just because they have better scum games. Well we should but not exactly. Like when they're sounding towny, that's just town? I haven't seen ydra's scum game in a hot sec but I don't think it would be much different from supers

[Noraa]

I think skitter's motivation w/ the Hectic push would be a bit different than portrayed but we shall see

twilight trolling here has no point. I counted the votes and that was hammer.

[Noraa]

Nvm im not writing hectic's case rn. I want to tell prism something instead.
Prism. You say Super has a very scary scum game right? I read super correctly in my last game with her. Also ydrasse is not super, their play style's are VERY similar. Why do you think it's not right to TR ydrasse here?
I paranoia'd myself to hell and back with super and I feel the exact same here. Everyone is suspicious of ydrasse just like Super was scum's counter wagon. I don't think that we should treat them with more caution just because they have better scum games. Well we should but not exactly. Like when they're sounding towny, that's just town? I haven't seen ydra's scum game in a hot sec but I don't think it would be much different from supers

To add to this, I nearly gave scum another day to live and perhaps the game. Super was at E-1 and scum was at E-1 the day before lylo. Everyone was very split solely because of paranoia of Super. I think that's the same thing here. The overall gamestate and my own read match my last games perfectly. It's a literal duplicate.

[Noraa]

I was seconds away from unvoting scum but my unvote got pedited by super's vote on scum and we won the game. Just like that. I seriously think ydrasse is just town here.

[Noraa]

I want to say I understand everyone's paranoia on her but I don't really tbh. Like I felt some but it was so similar to the feeling that super gave me that I really just don't get it at this point.

[Noraa]

I just had a long drive really reflecting and thinking on the events of the game, which I haven't been able to do since I've been bedridden.

I strongly feel this game ends with a Child/Noraa flip.

The short of it is:
-HEM never actually voting that slot despite it being his best chance at a counterwagon. There's further depth to this but it's clear imo that he wasn't confident in his ability to win the game solo.
-Noraa's claims about how much she read the game beforehand have been inconsistent and perhaps even contradictory (She was sure her slot was scum, but also sure my slot was scum, claims to have read minimally)
-Ydrasse simply doesn't come out that strong yesterday playing solo, even with the time to regroup. Satoru is not at all waiting to feel out the day but 100% just jumps in, which requires a strict plan over the flexibility that most scum opt for in this case
-T3 I'm less sold on but I suspect he hasn't developed the depth & confidence to be able to hammer a claimed townlean over something more lukewarm (hue) or scumleaning
-Hectic perhaps got scared of the result of a Child town flip but I doubt it, he also recognizes that the HEM slot is only going to pick up steam
-Infinity/Lukewarm are still hardtown

There's a lot I want to doublecheck here when my processing ability is back: Noraa meta, T3 meta, rework over Hectic, Ydrasse meta, in basically that order

Noraa, do you mind chonologically explaining what reads in the game you developed and how much you had read at the point you developed them?

On a separate note, drawing a comparison to Dandelion was decent but there is a crucial difference between this game and Tenet, namely that I successfully used that persuasion to get scum flipped on Day 1. You seem to have gone back in ISO and focused solely on why I am scum, and painted those interactions about alternative votes accordingly, rather than working forward. It is very difficult for me to believe that even in ISO it is unclear how relentless I was in shoving an HEM vote, and I can only think you are working in reverse. While others correctly pointed out that in context these "alternatives" were very grudging, the strength of the assertion that I wanted people to go elsewhere is not something I think can come from working forwards.

Finally, a point I missed above with Child was the way Child engaged with me. Child was incredibly attentive to my posts; when I suggested it was time for more breadth they immediately reacted and gave a full wall. When they ignored my questions and instead continued to push me with a one liner, and I hardchallenged them, they immediately understood exactly what I meant and openly took up my suggestions for alternative points on me. They noticed I was, in their words, incredibly rude to Infinity but did not step in, defend her, or assert that others should say more in the game. This makes me suspect several aspects of this were strategic, and that they feared not just that I would get upset but that I would turn an aggressive eye toward them.

I have limited time but I will address these.
I don't know what exactly the circumstances were but I don't think it's always a great idea to be voting a large counter wagon. Yes its the goal but it's pretty hard to pull off without getting questioned later on for it. Another thing is that if the scum team was HEM and child, HEM is imo the more valuable player. I dont really want to go in depth into this so we'll leave it here.

You have things mixed up. I was pretty certain Child was scum prior to repping in. I had read only the beginning of day 2 at that point. The reason was because the rest of the game was on similar wavelengths and the overall vibe pointed to child scum. After repping in, that thought went down the drain and I started thinking. I read the beginning of the first day and immediately felt heavy tenet vibes from you. That SR was so vivid I felt like I was reliving Tenet in your posts. I remember there was one of your posts that struck me the most.

I'm not really thrilled with Ydrasse's selection. It was made to pressure her to vote somewhere, I had to prod her further by making the comment about my nails, and the vote wound up on someone she just watched get in her own head/buckle to pressure in another game

as town

. The stakes aren't really comparable yet but I found it a lackluster choice.

I'm not sure exactly what I was thinking at the time now seeing this post again. But I think the gist of it is that at the time, Super's play was still a very recent memory(that game ended like one or two days before I repped in here). Seeing Ydrasse post sparked a huge reaction from me. It was like Super spawned herself a twin named ydrasse and that made me really paranoid. It turned into a townread really fast and I ended up thinking anyone questioning her had bad motivations. That's the gist of it. It's not totally accurate since other things played in including tenet vibes and your prfpc.

I take back my Lukewarm townread also. And overnight I've developed a strong Prism TR.
I did some game analysis and Prism scum actually makes zero sense mech wise. I hate reading mech but I mapped out the game yesterday and thought of all sorts of possibilities and Prism has to be the worse scum ever to bus their buddy on day 1 in a setup like this.
My conclusion was basically that Prism, if scum would have to get through 3 town mislims on their own(number might be wrong. I did the analysis yesterday and can't remember atm) and also all the targets put on at night have to stay alive. Which doesn't sound too bad maybe but the probability of it all working out are pretty low and if anyone catches on, it will all come crashing down. Other options include not setting them ablaze the same night but doing it twice or just getting to lylo and doing it the normal way. Both are difficult because the winning odds typically go down to like 50% which isn't that high. Also, seeing that prism got the lim of their choice in such a disorganized group means that prism could've easily got the lim elsewhere. All in all, Prism scum makes zero sense is an opinion that I developed overnight.

Lukewarm. I was ready to come in with a townread today but no. I see why I'm a suspect but voting me right off the back and defending T3 is such a bad look. I hate it so much. I was 100% certain last scum was hectic but now I'm questioning everything. Like the issue is this: I do NOT ever want to be the game losing lim tomorrow but if I die today, I am very worried about tomorrow. T3 has said recently(outside of this game) that he is pretty busy. I don't TR him but if he is town, he is a very big mislim possibility. The fact that Lukewarm is hard town reading T3 gives me the heeby jeebies. There's too many wifom possibilities there and I've sped run through those in my head with the main ones being saving him to be the game winning mislim and using like "reverse mentality". Its that thing I talked about yesterday how if someone told me to vote someone but not someone else. Or "or someone else". I'm more likely to not vote the one I'm told to vote.

Were you in Tenet? Also I was definitely working backwards. The moment I saw your posts and thought of Cabd, I got immense paranoia and it lead to me seeing everything you said in a bad light. I still have lingering effects of that but I'm pushing that paranoia aside because it makes no sense for you to be scum here mech wise. I didn't think pushing HEM was that town indicative yesterday. It really isn't in a typical game but this setup just makes it very town indicative to be leading a scum wagon.

Conclusion: If I cannot get at least half of this game to believe I am town, I should die today because tomorrow is lylo assuming for the worst(that all tagged players are still alive)
I am now pretty certain scum is in Lukewarm and Hectic. I do sincerely hope it is not Lukewarm but I am having trouble clearing that possibility away at this point.
Aside from Prism and Infinity, I could see just about anyone dying tomorrow in lylo assuming I flip today.
I could see people pushing Nakata through pushing ydrasse.
I could see people pushing T3 for activity reasons.
I could see people pushing hectic because paranoia.

I still haven't gone through my hectic case I realize but I didn't do that overnight so that'll wait a bit. My strongest reason atm is that his read on me feels faked. He's never really given me a read straight off the bat and then thrown me into a readslist just like that. He always hesitates a bit when town because he knows that I react badly to pressure and because my reads and towniness fluctuate depending on surroundings.

Alright I have to go. I don't want my replacement to be the reason we lose this game so I'll try my best to reply to everything but give me time because I have an ap exam soon.

[Noraa]

Oh also on what parts of the game I've read.
I've read parts of Hectic, Infinity, and Lukewarm's(more or less) ISO
I have not read skitters or T3's iso.
I've very briefly skimmed child's ISO
I have not straight up read Prism's or Ydrasse's ISO. I repped in and came to conclusions fairly fast. Mostly was in context but first few pages. I did take brief skims of their ISOs but they were so brief that I really wouldn't count it.

[Noraa]

One more thing. A point in my favor. I was town reading skitter for all of my time in the thread but then when skitter gets to E-1, scum me just decides to cheekily hammer despite not posting anything prior to it. I'd like to think my scum play is that insanely relaxed and wild but it is definitely not. I can get townread in scum games fairly easily but pulling a yolo move like that is not something I'd feel ok doing.

I posted that post seconds after infinity. I was going to hammer if infinity hadn't been one second faster.

[Noraa]

Mostly importantly, Child did not post at all Day 2.

I know! Everyone seemed very united and pushes felt very town motivated which lead to me thinking child was scum.

[Noraa]

The way everyone interacted and had their own spot at the table felt 100% like united town. There are clearly conflicting opinions but overall, the game state seemed super united and towny. The back and forth between ydrasse and hectic. No one being "afraid" to express their opinions. <- hard to determine with 100% accuracy but vibe wise, I was pretty certain child was scum. I actually have to go now so bai guys!

Spoiler:

Infinity, Lukewarm-thank you for trusting me at the end of the day.

I am hungry and want the shut-out. I am sick and away from home right now, but let's end this today.

my pool is basically skitter/child/t3 tho

my pool is basically skitter/child/t3 tho

Why you stealing my pool

my pool is basically skitter/child/t3 tho

Why you stealing my pool

it’s a good pool and also a likely pool

please anoint me with knowledge of t3

I like this Ydrasse a lot and would like to submit the adoption papers so that we, The Game, can Keep Her

this isn't an alignment statement but big ++ in quality of play/reads/effort thank u for putting in work this early

Infinity is even more clear to me for HEM interactions, monkey tried to reach out to her more than anyone else

[Noraa]

I repped in thinking that was a scum slot. I had my great plan to steamroll hectic while he's rusty since he hasn't played with me recently. Oh well. I'll get you next time just you wait!!!!

Since when has Noraa desired the sickly sweet suffering of scum?

I think it's important you answer this, Noraa

I've always known you as a player who tries to avoid playing scum at all cost. You told me you avoided signing up for Hectic vs Flavor Leaf for the sole reason you though I

might

pick you to be scum. Right???

To be quite honest. I figured if I really did sign up, you probably wouldn't pick me. I can't remember why I didn't sign up but it wasn't because I was worried you would pick me. I think I was overgamed/didnt like the playerlist. Post the playerlist. It might've been the reason. Otherwise it was bc I was overgamed.

I don't like being scum, no. It's been maybe twenty games of pure town games for me though and recently I've been very inspired by pooky's scum game. I did hope this was a scum slot. I sure wish it was. I wouldn't get any heat here if I were scum. Alas, life is tough and you don't always get what you want.

[Noraa]

Aside from a survivor game but I consider that to be the same as town.

[Noraa]

Alright, fair

Why don't you think you'd get any heat here if you were scum? Like, how would you be playing this differently?

I don't know what I would do but I'm always more townread as scum.

[Noraa]

Well, if you're town, you'll be surprised what my alts have done to me after this game.

[Noraa]

The main reason I am town is still that I would never hammer skitter after calling skitter town for a whole day as scum. It is a very strong point and absolutely not something I would do as scum.

[Noraa]

Also Lukewarm is completely misrepping me. I TRed skitter and in a game like mafia, if the limpool is you and someone that you TR, it is much easier to break free of consensus together than as one person.

[Noraa]

If I'm not scum, who's scum? Nows a good time to start thinking about that. Seeing the gamestate, I will much rather die today than tomorrow. If tomorrow, no one can settle on a lim, lim the most townread townie because that probably drags the game out of lylo by getting rid of one of the flagged people. Scum will have 3 by then and just need to blow them up. Get rid of one of them and scum can't win and will have to wait another night which is pretty bad for scum since the dead townie is still there technically and probably means that scum has to flag someone that is a mislim option which is risky. My guess is that the people that are flagged are probably Lukewarm, Prism, and Infinity by tomorrow. I still think Lukewarm is scum in the event that Hectic isn't but if Lukewarm is scum, none of this matters because it's already a scum win. One of those will be flagged tonight so they may stray from the original plan seeing this post. Idk but my speculation tells me that the best bet for elimming UTR is infinity if it ever comes to that. Aside from that, I don't know what to say. Like I'm not scum here but I'd rather die today than tomorrow.

[Noraa]

Noraa you got better! No matter your alignment. I like this noraa

Thank you that means a lot to me. I recently was actually reading through some of my past games. I recently met a very toxic player(we are not naming names and I am not trying to attack anyone everyone goes through phases and I understand) but it really struck deep realizing what my play had evolved into. I looked through some past games. Prism might've reminded me of cabd because that was a game that I recently read actually. Reading that game hurt my soul. It hurt so bad realizing how bad my play was and just how terrible I could be. Ok this is a discussion for a different place but this does mean a lot to me. I'd like to think my play is no longer a toxic shitfest of the most useless garbage. AHH ok I need to stop. I kept doing this recently. but this means a lot. it really really does.

Nakata thought this post rung as very emotionally honest and thinks it would be very distasteful for Noraa to be using it to try to manipulate people into TRing her here. However, Nakata admits he doesn’t know Noraa that well or if she would share his opinion about this, and maybe Nakata is weighting it too heavily, especially as he supposes that Noraa isn’t actually pointing to this post or her different attitude here and trying to use that to get townreads from people.

Okay, Nakata must leave. Nakata will return later, tree friends!

This post came out of the depths of my heart. Toxicity in town games was a real issue for me for the longest time. No hectic, it is not NAI. I don't get toxic as scum or at least I very very rarely do. But my town game was a huge shitfest for months and months and it was painful for me and the people around me who knew I didn't like being an asshole. What infinity said meant a lot to me because of that. I don't want to go into this here honestly.

Nakata, I do use AtE when I am scum to get people to TR me. While I think it is probably near my scum range, I never quite go that deep as scum because that's when it starts hurting to see people believe me.

[Noraa]

I'm less confident that noraa is scum than y'all. I agree that child was towny but I'm not convinced that child was a newbie lol cause of how many alts who pretend to be new I've seen

I think scum!noraa would've had to improve her ability to replicate her towngame by quite a bit but town!noraa also would've had to improve a lot so. Also she's smoother than she usually is as town but I'm not quite sure how indicative that is.

I'm not scum. infinity please help me!!

[Noraa]

Who's scum?

Lukewarm or Hectic

[Noraa]

Lukewarm is townnnn

I would be more than happy to vote them if you lay out some persuasive & specific reasoning for them.

Lukewarm as scum is laying out a Noraa lim then a T3 lim tomorrow. Assuming he didn't decide to prime skitter for some reason, the three primed targets blow up for a scum win.
Prism said that it would be better to scum read T3 or leave room to lim. If I were scum and I saw potential mislims for the future that ARENT VERY ACTIVE, plan of action would be to TR them and the next day be like "I want to TR them but its impossible with their activity levels" which leads a solid and steady path to that mislim. I don't think anything Lukewarm has done is locktown worthy. His whole play is SO towny that it's probably scum. Lukewarm's a newbie and in his last game with me, his town game was not this flawless and shiny. I find him very towny. But I don't think that says good things about his alignment.
Volunteering to be the lim if a read is wrong. Pretty towny. I've done that a couple times myself as town. These are all things that scum me could easily pull though. I don't think lukewarm has done anything that is locktown worthy and the more people keep saying his is locktown, the more paranoia is building up and I don't know what to do with this paranoia because no one agrees with it except for Hectic who is my other scum candidate. Lukewarm says his points that I am scum aren't around my play yesterday of trying to break up the town block but that is really the only reason that I see in his other posts. I mean, Lukewarm, if you're town, I would like to hear more specifics about what you are thinking. You say breaking up the town block isn't AI but then you say coming in with it the day before is scummy. Your recent post says you can't figure out why. Try to word it in words because I only find you more scummy for that. While you may be convinced I am scum, if I die today, I will still tunnel you tomorrow which could end up contributing to a scum win if you aren't scum.

I have a meta tell on Hectic. I don't want to drop it but his other actions are ok material to work off of also. I still think his read was fake. He admits it was confbiased which I don't like because I feel like I felt something wrong there but it was immediately covered up. I'm not a fan of how a lot of his reads feel like duplicates of my own reads. Every time I'm scum, people call me out for having reads that mirror theirs which feels like what I see here. Hectic is also good scum though so that makes me wonder if I'm just wrong because I'd never catch scum him. I don't know. My read on him has lessened because I really just think Lukewarm is scum now. I can say more on this read since its a read I've been on and off about all game and that probably looks bad but I don't know. I both believe in it and don't believe in it. I mean I also still just dislike his read on me. Ugh like he comes in and he's like skitter is scum Noraa. The game ends now. Pretty sure Noraa is town because controversial reads. Which really is just ... no. Like when have I ever really agreed with consensus reads regardless of alignment? It is "classic Noraa" but its not AI and the way that read was just so carelessly given was just. I don't know. I still don't like his slot ig.

[Noraa]

Why are you sold on T3-town, Noraa?

I'm not but I have too many scum reads as it is.

[Noraa]

I just think Lukewarm is scum here. I think he's too towny. I think he's too scummy. I think nearly every path of paranoia and wifom leads to him. I'm OMGUSing. I'm worried he'll get me killed. I think he's the deep wolf and I want to not lose to him.

I originally thought Lukewarm was scum because he felt more empty than he did last game. Once he started posting more, his play evolved into a whole different thing that was very towny and scummy all in one. Flawless was the wrong word choice but every post was made with a purpose. This feeling that he was constantly thinking of what he should do what he could do. And it felt like experienced scum.

A gladiator offer does nothing truly. I do think Lukewarm is scum but that gladiate offer is just dumb. This is a vanilla setup and saying something like that only makes people townread you more. I am so so paranoia of Lukewarm. I truly think Lukewarm is deepwolf here and that town is about to lose because every time I feel like I've caught onto something, he says something extremely towny that makes me rethink my read and I always do this when I catch deep wolves. Every single time they just slip out of my grasp because I move elsewhere but I just think that Lukewarm is deep wolf here. Sure it could be hectic but siding with Lukewarm here doesn't help hectic for tomorrow.

[Noraa]

If we are going to eliminate T3 today just to lim me tomorrow given worst case scenario, I'm going to say no to that because if anyone wants to lose the game for their team, its not me. I don't care if T3 loses the game for his team whether that be town or scum but I refuse to be the lim in lylo. So I'm either going today or I'm endgaming. I stand firmly by that. While I'd prefer to not have to be a mislim, I would rather anything than be the game losing mislim.

[Noraa]

Oh wow ok lmaooooo I've been paranoia'ing myself for literally nothing. This is hilarious.

[Noraa]

last scum is just T3 lmao. that makes my life so much easier.
VOTE: Noraa

End this day. Vote T3 tomorrow. Game over.

Also a couple other thoughts to mention here before the day ends. Another issue with hectic is that I don't believe he would self vote or even consider it. And Lukewarm is a bit too certain having never played with me. But I never believe town T3 SRs me here. That is literally impossible. This is game solved and over. Just stick to your guns tomorrow and lim T3 and this is guaranteed to be a town win. Don't do the limming a townread thing. Thats not needed at all literally.

By the time it's tomorrow, I'll be very close to exams so I won't be here at all so remember what I said. It's T3. Throw all paranoia out the window. T3 never SRs me here.

[Noraa]

Besides Lukewarm, no one TRs T3. This is a town win for sure. Just stick to what you believe.

[Noraa]

Vote T3 tomorrow!

[Noraa]

I was typing this before murder so RUDELY cut me off!!!

I was gonna twilight troll since I put quite some effort in here but no ones talking so that's boring.
Oh wellllll yeah I was scum
Hectic is totally right, that post was very much genuine and had no intent to manipulate. I truly do feel that way about my town game. I mean I guess to varying degrees it has manipulation since I'm scum but that post that infinity posted truly did hit deep. I think it was because she said "regardless of your alignment, Noraa your play has improved" so I took it as directed to me regardless of alignment. Later I denied that cuz duh why wouldn't I lmao? I didn't really try to manipulate anyone here which is strange cuz typically I manipulate a lot as scum. I'm not sure if that means my scum meta has changed since its been a while since I've rolled scum. We'll see as I start rolling red again and what this brings into my life!
And that did hit pretty deep so I replied and thanked her.
First scum game after my hiatus and first scum game after a veeeery long streak of town games. It was miserable and beautiful all in one. I enjoyed this. Thank you guys <3
Hectic when did I ever desire a red role pm? Typically never but I truly wanted one here and I got it. I wasn't able to do what I wanted with it but it shows that my scum game can't stand firmly without roots early in that game. It gives me something to work on

But thank you murder, for modding. My number one fan and supporter who was there for me when my scum buddies weren't <333

[Noraa]

I am so happy with this game in ways I can't describe. It's the first time I've ever been like "I think that slots scum. FUCK THAT IM REPPING IN ANYWAYS"
it was this energy that was just so beautiful. Noraa standing up to her fears!!!

[Noraa]

That self vote was bad in some ways. It was a gambit that I decided to pull. It obviously didn't work out but I had confidence that no one would hammer me except Prism. I took the risk of Prism hammering me which lead to ... well ... prism hammering me. I pull this gambit occasionally. It doesn't always work but sometimes it works and gets me much further into the game. Was worth a shot given I needed T3 on my side to win this!

[Noraa]

this game is brutal for scum.

No its not!! When I wanted to give up, I thought to myself that pooky would steamroll town regardless of how harsh the setup was for scum. Setups are never going to be fair! It is the players job to just step up, suck it up, and deal with what's thrown their way. I'm really happy with this game and I feel like it's been an amazing journey despite it only being like ... 5 days lmao.

[Noraa]

Yay noraa

It was a tough position and you handled it pretty well!

Thanks for modding murder

Thanks to town for being awesome

<333 MY FAVORITE SOUL MASON I LOVE YOUUUUU

[Noraa]

I don't think this game was absolutely impossible. Although I seemed far, I felt I wasn't actually that far. I had not primed infinity so if today say T3 had died and tomorrow we'd killed infinity, I would've won.
I admit that's a bit reachy but I think it was absolutely possible and it means my scum game simply isn't good enough

[Noraa]

Noe redactions!

[Noraa]

I feel like this game ending today is life telling me that I need to study for my exams.
Lmfao.
Alright.
It's meant to be I guess.
Well, lets make this VLA real then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Time to HIBERNATE AND STUDY
BAI GUYS SEE YALL ON THE OTHER SIDE ON JUNE 28th!
I'm so excited lmao I feel like I've had ten coffees. I basically have at this point. This game was so drainingggggg

[Noraa]

Redacted

[Noraa]

Good luck!

thank you thank you!! You've told me this so many times <333333
You're the bestttt
I'm retaking an exam so that's why my exams have been going on sooooo long oml.
I can't wait for this to be over just for driving school, volunteering, and a summer camp to start.
HA imma have no summer. Life is just beautiful and treats me well lol.

[Noraa]

Redacted

[Noraa]

Secondly, Nakata thinks that friend Noraa misplayed here a bit, and that the main lesson she should consider is not rocking the boat when solo-scumming in a tricky list. Nakata is also not very good at scum but thinks this is more due to poor execution on his part than lack of understanding of what should be done. Nakata thinks that the way for Noraa to win was probably to go after Nakata today for being wrong on skitter30, and then to go for either T3 or Hectic tomorrow depending on skitter30’s paranoia there. Nakata thinks it was probably a mistake to try to go after the widely townread friend Lukewarm which stood out in a bad way from the rest of the list. Solo scum want to blend in if possible.

In general I really agree with this, though I'm a bit torn as to how I expect pushing Nakata to have gone. I'm a bit biased by how obviously town they were to me but I think playing for SN/T3 into a flexible Day 4 posed a better chance.

I underestimated Prism's SR on me.
I was pretty certain no one else would hammer
Nakata wouldn't hammer because they TR me
Infinity would never yolo hammer here
Hectic would be more careful. He might hammer but chances are still very very low
I figured it was worth the risk because if I left my vote there for long enough, I might get hectic's townread, at which point I would have half the town reads that I declared I needed to develop a will to live, and could unvote and probably win this game with that support + skitter. I really only needed one more person outside of Nakata and Infinity to win the game.
I was going to hammer skitter solely bc it was a very not scum me thing to do and I felt extreme measures needed to be taken to win this game.
T3 would not have been difficult to mislim, the issue is that mislimming T3 still puts me in a tough spot the next day. I was hoping I could gain hectics trust and win the game off that alone.

I was not scum reading T3. I was scum reading Lukewarm, Prism, and Hectic. Why? You think its bc I'm trying to play TSTBS. Thats incorrect. I was trying to replicate my town game. I don't generally agree with consensus reads as town because I have a lot a lot of paranoia about everything. I wanted hectic's TR so I was trying my best to replicate my town meta.

[Noraa]

My thought was that hectic would expect scum me to unvote really quickly bc I've done this many times in games. so if I didn't, he would TR me for it. That was why I took this gambit.

[Noraa]

Nakata thinks friend Noraa could also have gone after T3 potentially, and that Nakata would have been a softer target D4 if he’d been loudly wrong on 2 people and if the rest of the thread was very cognisant of scum!Nakata being only one more miselim from winning, potentially.

Nakata isn’t sure how townread he really was this game, and Nakata suspects that the advice he gave Noraa would be good generally for future games scum!Noraa finds herself in, where even if Nakata’s idiosyncrasies were being townread this game, they might have been offputting (even quite severely) with an alternative playerlist.

Nakata was once again impressed by friend Prism.

For sure I could've taken less risky routes. I probably should've but its been so long since I've felt ALIVE in a game. I will take friend Nakata's advice for future scum games though

[Noraa]

Nakata also saw friend Hectic asking if we were acquianted: we are indeed. Nakata is acquianted to greater or lesser with everyone who was playing this day phase!

Nakata would also like to pedit this post by saying he appreciates friend Lukewarm’s kind words! Nakata also hopes to see Lukewarm in more games as time goes on!

Ah Noraa believe she knows who friend Nakata is. She sends her greetings and a small packet of fruit snacks <333333

[Noraa]

My apologies for the replacement. Nicely done though, all of you. I don't envy scum's spot this game.

FIDGETTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Noraa]

Gypyx and I are planning to run this game if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to have any of you!

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Draft_Mafia

Spoiler: About self-votes

Self-votes are scum claims and you should avoid using it as AtE

Heck I've self hammered half my town games. They are not scum claims for me lmao. I'm a VERY emotional player. It's a whole thing and I'm working on it which is why I was so happy when infinity said that about me. Anyways. I will try to keep things like that outside of games in the future since I understand they can be pretty unfair even if unintentional.

[Noraa]

Perhaps.

[Noraa]

I don't think they are scum claims but ig it depends on why it is happening.

[Noraa]

I think I see town self votes more tbh.
idk I think its easier to get frustrated as town than scum because typically town don't really unite until late game.

[Noraa]

I don't think self votes are great but atm its a part of my town meta so I don't really have a choice but to replicate it occasionally as scum. I'm trying to get them out of my town game but that's a whole thing that will take some time >.<

[Noraa]

I can testify to it. I've caught scum this way. Self-votes are usually accompanied by an emotion that is very difficult to fake without burning bridges. Meanwhile, it's very easy to spot a fake AtE self-vote imo.

rate my emotions around the self vote. I was trying imagine what pooky would say and that's what I ended up with

[Noraa]

Pooky is my literal role model. he plays so happily, has pretty good reads, and is always fooling around. that is the final level of enlightenment <.<

[Noraa]

rate my emotions around the self vote. I was trying imagine what pooky would say and that's what I ended up with

if you want to put yourself in the position that you would self-vote and it would look genuine, pick a fight with someone. not just a fight about the game or your alignment, but about how unfair they're being to you and how hurt your ego etc. that's the emotion that leads to self-destructive town behavior.

I don't do that nowadays. Thats not cool :/
I wasn't trying to go the frustrated route. I was more trying to go that "whatever game is solved idc if I die here"

[Noraa]

I don't think its crazy unbelievable for me since I get extremely extremely strong soul reads and if I had a soul read strong enough, I would totally do this.
The issue is that I don't know T3 well enough to have a soul read like that. Like having some sort of read on him is already like ... pretty good.