Open 821 | Fall With Your Friends | Endgame

[inutile]

I've dreamed about it for 4 trust fall games now

since not mafia in the four (3) person hydra game!!!

I wanna live until endgame and fall with kitty

why are people saying things of this sort when noone is proposing to them or indicating a desire to do so

Why inutile, murdercat?

hm

tbqh I don't think any combination of scum ever wins this setup

too cheeky right

Mostly looking forward to when inutile comes online, hopefully makes the game much easier.

reporting for duty

[inutile]

Why inutile, murdercat?

hm

i think murdercat was being kind to me regardless there

[inutile]

You

are you just looking for one town?

[inutile]

Murdercat id be very happy if you leave with Infinity right now, if both of you really have the ability to do so

could you just run me through why murdercat and infinity are only mafia with eachother to you real quick

pedit: yeah

[inutile]

I dont think either would do it even though they said they would

so the conclusion is mafia together or singular wary town or plural wary town?

even though both said they want to remain in the game (though infinity's play kinda indicates the opposite if town - seemingly looking for only one other town, )

[inutile]

Why do you think youre uniquely qualified to stay than the peolle here?

paragon of mafia hunters, perhaps

[inutile]

I gave reads on everyone

i think i did not word what i was intending to ask there very well

i mean like, is your approach to find one town, confirm they are town, poe game off of that

like reads sure, but

[inutile]

My approach is to get reads I feel good about on everyone and try to leave with my strongest townread

hm

Hi inutile

hi

[inutile]

I dont think either would do it even though they said they would

Because they're buddies, or because one or both of them are town and scared?

Good answer S_S

I dont think either would do it even though they said they would

so the conclusion is mafia together or singular wary town or plural wary town?

?

[inutile]

I have no conclusions inutile. Just exploring stuff.

didn't realize that was directed at me the first time but also now realizing that you may have been pointing out the same thing i just did by saying 'good answer' but also i meant it as a question,

like the conclusion is

this,
or
this,
or
this?

not which of these is your conclusion,

[inutile]

any immediate reads, inutile?

not really beyond what i or others have said,

[inutile]

not really beyond what i or others have said,

like sure monkey potentially blocking town/town pairing scummy

but, uh,

hectic literally took that from seeing scum do it in other trust falls

so,

[inutile]

Can you be more explicit? "or others have said" is extremely broad

sure, though asking specific questions is probably going to get you to whatever you want from me more quickly,

like infinity feels like she is playing a different game from the one she is saying she is playing, but the narrow thing very disadvantageous for scum if it does not go well, like eggs/basket right

the monkey thing above, dannflor seems to be posting separate from game but also acknowledged this himself, and catboi i think pointed it out,

i don't really have enough reference to get much out of back and forth between you and catboi, catboi and monkey both talk to you like you're confirmed though, but eh,

[inutile]

You tried to pocket me the same way you're doing here

Shiki (inutile) could be scum

unsure of who you even think i am trying to pocket here?

[inutile]

she was talking to me with the first line, p sure

oh

any immediate reads, inutile?

not really beyond what i or others have said,

you haven't stated any

that's why I asked

if the reads you want are just,

_ is town
or
_ is mafia

that'd just be me assigning way more weight than the scales actually have

[inutile]

Prism mentioned a similar thing, would it help if I was a bit more proactive in communicating my reads?

I was proactive about prism early as well as my dann read, but I guess there are some reads which I'm either struggling to articulate or get a handle on, and it should get better as the game goes on.

hm, it just feels like there is a disconnect between like, i want to solve the game, but also i am sure of this and this is what i will do, and it makes it feel like everything else is throwaway

but yeah time maybe

no I just want some evidence that you're thinking about posts and actions in relation to people's alignments

like what is your gut telling you or have certain posts made you lean more this way and that

even just like "I'm unsure on x because of this towny thing but also this scummy thing happened"

hm, i mean, i comment on what i do for a reason,

[inutile]

Shiki (inutile) could be scum

like has infinity not gone 'hmm!' yet? possible
does she know i expect this of her, and is potentially appeasing because of questioning, also possible

[inutile]

I am restraining myself from being a more forceful or aggressive advocate right now and it better pay off.

if on account of me there is no need, past on me much moreso than you

have i made the game easier?

[inutile]

inutile, who would you want to trust at this juncture if you had to? Or would you want to be one of the people leftover?

you probably but as much for utility as confidence in you being town; the being leftover thing feels like posturing more than anything,

[inutile]

If you have a good reason why you really want to pair with me then I'd only refuse if I really believed murder would not fall with anyone else.

i mean, i have good reason if you are town,

pedit: like the + from you being town if so would swing it to you but it's not as though i have actually done so here

also, 20 questions probably good here

[inutile]

i mean, i have good reason if you are town,

also, dunno if + or - that you brought into line with what i pointed out before

[inutile]

i mean, i have good reason if you are town

What's the reason?

i am town?

[inutile]

I do have an idea of the next step I want this game to take, but am content to let things simmer a bit first.

...

[inutile]

these people

are you steering clear of me for some reason

[inutile]

sorry if you feel like that, but i'm not steering clear of you. what do you want to talk about?

just found it odd that you are pushing for what i suggested i would do right now to prism

[inutile]

just found it odd that you are pushing for what i suggested i would do right now to prism

i mean without interacting with me, like it felt like maybe you were trying not to engage with me for whatever reason

[inutile]

I think shiki is town tbh

yeah?

[inutile]

It's hard for me to tell the difference between town who is approaching the game subtly and scum who doesn't have much to say but I'm leaning towards the first one

you could just see if i have much to say thus removing the second option

[inutile]

Yes. catboi should do it to Prism. That's the plan.

next step of the plan from here pretty obvious

[inutile]

Still don't see the benefit to proposing as a widely scumread player, scum!prism won't accept

only if you believe prism about not accepting,

otherwise it is like, get 'confirmed' town, pair towniest non-confirmeds, if both town, pair with confirmed town, tada?

[inutile]

Again, is there something I'm missing? It seems suboptimal to me for scum to accept a trust fall with a scummier player if they could trust fall with a townier player later to get them out of the pool. Therefore, it's not a clear.

eh, there is precedent for this i guess

[inutile]

is there any reason to doubt prism's alignment?

do you think scum!prism would be more or less likely to express that they were upset with a town/town pairing after witnessing menalque’s reaction to a scum flip in the tarot game?

[inutile]

I am annoyed by that trust regardless of what that flips. I will mald if I explain why and there's no point at this juncture. I am unhappy whoever is town trusted but I am glad they left.

and tarot game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87040

[inutile]

and tarot game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87040

basically, marcistar flipped mafia, menalque expressed that he was very upset with the manner in which it happened despite result, (menalque was mafia)

[inutile]

Inutile can you give a readslist as well

uh yeah i guess

probably something like

prism
monkey
catboi, dannflor, murdercat, something smart
infinity

if i had to

[inutile]

do you think scum!prism would be more or less likely to express that they were upset with a town/town pairing after witnessing menalque’s reaction to a scum flip in the tarot game?

i now ask you: are you more likely to become more convoluted in your reads when you are scum?

more convoluted than i am as town? that doesn’t seem possible, unless you just mean messier in which case, probably?

[inutile]

Inutile can you give a readslist as well

uh yeah i guess

probably something like

prism
monkey
catboi, dannflor, murdercat, something smart
infinity

if i had to

but i am basically just looking for one town, so

like i was trying to see if infinity on similar path but ehh

[inutile]

i think that if you're comparing the prism's reactions in the game and to the reactions she had when she was a spectator with the purpose of getting any sort of read on her (and i assume, a town read) is a bit more convoluted than this sentence.

? i just don’t think scum!prism would be looking to mimic menalques pitfall

[inutile]

hm

[inutile]

hi

[inutile]

Dann/S_S possible, this is their only interaction

That's...kind of an odd approach to take, and why us two? I feel like something_smart is decently readable, given enough time. Why not aim for the more confident townreads early? That feels like a basic risk mitigation strategy.

possible?

mm, were these the only interactions you looked at?

[inutile]

mm, were these the only interactions you looked at?

But why does that lead to the conclusion of HEM's town equity being way up? I don't follow what the logic is supposed to be here.

Prism had a strong town read on HEM which is now confirmed, my reads were proven to be not great so I'm doubting them, and 1 less scum means it can't be both Dann and HEM so the likelihood that it's HEM must go down as a result.

it really feels like murdercat presenting a conclusion here;

like,
monkey town, dannflor/catboi scum, !

i didn't have any interactions with something smart, those weren't dannflor's only interactions as catboi pointed out, and prism thought something smart was only mafia with monkey? so it's weird for murdercat to realign like this

[inutile]

i want to trust you, but i have no strong reasons to do it other than there are more people that might be scum than you are. help me?

i mean, the reason is still that i am town

shiki if you would pocket me, or pocket someone, how have you historically done it?

historically i think mostly through mechanics? like i 'pocketed' dunnstral/hectic (though this wasn't as much a pocket as won a final three partly because of) by using the deadline to confirm town someone else,

to pocket you i'd probably just create a situation similar to day one of the third miccro blitz, if this was my sole intention

[inutile]

do you still think infinity is scum, shiki?

not as strongly as i did previously, still looking at today, and the question you posed to me earlier regarding

[inutile]

do you think catboi is scum, shiki?

only if going for the like 'no outs' thing

[inutile]

do you think catboi is scum, shiki?

only if going for the like 'no outs' thing

which i mean does happen, but not all that often

[inutile]

Infinity clearing a bunch of people, or at least clearing the people she thinks is most town, can be interpreted in two ways:
1. scum with reckless abandon just trying to get herself trusted
2. town because there's no scum incentive to clear people

shiki what's your take

infinity only cleared you, but its probably town indicative, yeah? like there's no immediate pressure for mafia here and there's no expectation for you to accept?

[inutile]

how does the paragon of mafia hunters get me so wrong, and then devolve into shallow reads like townreading me after S_S flips but not catboi.

today is probably hem + hem's #1 scum read and we accept we lose to scum hem now

how does the paragon of mafia hunters decide this is an okay result for this game where he's town

the more damning thing is probably that what it resulted in like

reads everyone had before the prism pairing?

and the reasons given for that being kinda ???

[inutile]

do you think catboi is scum, shiki?

only if going for the like 'no outs' thing

which i mean does happen, but not all that often

actually this:

I had actually been feeling fairly good about Infinity and she was the one I had in mind for clearing but I wanted to revisit the ISO first.

is kinda hmm

[inutile]

if i trust you, will you end up being town?

still town yeah

[inutile]

Why's that?

potentially negates the 'no outs' aspect

[inutile]

making a read based on what Prism said in a thread where she was a spectator and applying it here is what i would call convoluted.

it wasn't based on what prism said? it was based on prism being aware of the fact that menalque was universally scumread for that very thing very recently? and i read that game during dead silence because menalque was upset about it

[inutile]

Why's that?

potentially negates the 'no outs' aspect

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

like it felt like you could only be mafia if you were going for the no outs angle, like 'i can't be mafia, look at the position i'm willingly putting myself in, leave me behind,' et cetera

but the above seems counter to that

like either because town
or saw an opportunity

[inutile]

I feel like my responses to HEM would indicate more of that, my intention of possibly clearing Infinity was because I felt she was town, not because of any anticipated reciprocity.

hm. these just run into eachother to me. like clear infinity to be paired with either to get out of no outs situation?

[inutile]

i trust infinity

[inutile]

thankyou for moderating. no redactions necessary for me.