Mini Normal 2276: Around the World - Game Over!

[Shoshin]

VOTE: scamper

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Roden

[Shoshin]

Marci's town.

Roden needs more votes.

[Shoshin]

Hey Gamma, will you vote Roden with me?

[Shoshin]

Not at this time.

[Shoshin]

Working theory: Roden/Datisi/Crescent scumteam.

[Shoshin]

Indeed, I'm very serious. I assume wrong somewhere, but who knows?

[Shoshin]

Marci's 30 isn't something scum post.

Roden's scum for voting me, for suspecting Marci, and for calling Datisi town (he was anything but). Crescent's scum for awkward posts in general.

Scamper would be my guess for scum if one of Roden/Datisi/Crescent are town.

I'd also assume there's scum in the inactive players, so at least one of these reads is wrong.

[Shoshin]

To elaborate, very unlikely that scum Marci calls town Ausuka's role fake. Equally unlikely that scumteam Ausuka/Marci planned this bit of drama to start the game off (besides the obvious pro-town effect of their play getting us out of RVS, it just seems too much to pull off this quickly with no real scum logic behind the play).

[Shoshin]

Ausuka's 26 feels like fake frustration. I'm surprised anyone suspects Marci over Ausuka here. Strongly doubt it's genuine from everyone involved.

[Shoshin]

Why do you think it's more likely for scum to fake claim an absurd-sounding role than for scum to doubt an absurd-sounding role?

Scum are more likely to fake-claim than town.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Crescent

[Shoshin]

But that's teetering a bit on circular logic.

I don't want to have this "circular" discussion here, as it's not going to lead anywhere helpful. I'm sure you'll realize I'm town soon enough without getting straight answers to all your questions.

[Shoshin]

Roden, what do you think of Crescent?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: scamper

Was this an RVS vote?

It wasn't random, no.

[Shoshin]

What posts gave you town vibes from scamper, Ausuka?

[Shoshin]

Alex is very scummy.

If Crescent's town, I'd guess Scamper/Alex/STD.

[Shoshin]

Thoughts on Crescent:

Spoiler:

My first thought was to distrust Asuka.

My second thought was that I haven't seen such a claim come from scum in a few years.

As such, the claim doesn't really do a lot for me. I need to see their actual play. It's way too early for a blanket judgment,

The reason Marci voted for Asuka is kinda hogwash. The only one that argument might actually be valid on right now is Marci herself.

Town don't usually lay out their logic in this way: "My first thought...," "my second thought...," "as such..."

From what I remember (back when I used to play more), scum tend to overly-justify their behaviors/reads in this way. They sequence their thoughts more often than town, and format posts as logical-sounding arguments. This pings me from Crescent.

I also don't like Crescent's use of "kinda" to soften his posts. In the context of aggressive/confident posting like Crescent's, it feels off.

Kinda too early to make such a statement.

Three people haven't been in the topic yet, and aside from Shoshin's two contentless votes (The second one being a countervote), there really isn't anyone it would apply to unless you count the guy who said "I feel like marci is being marci" and went VLA.

This post rubs me the wrong way. Throwing shade my way without committing to it.

Crescent also falls into another common scum pattern: lazily attacking lack of justifications, rather than searching for deeper meanings.

Oh he's shitposting for reactions. Less interesting.

Another common scum pattern: Discrediting/dismissing townies and their efforts to scumhunt as non-serious (or not to be taken seriously).

why do u immediately jump to shitposting? LOL what if shoshins serious..

Yes, let's seriously come up with a scumteam based solely on a single point of interaction 80 posts into the game. That sure sounds serious~

I am very weary of shitposters right now for reasons I can't get into.

This is more of the same. Crescent portrays himself as experienced, yet acts like he's never seen a townie genuinely scumhunt early or try to figure the game out after 80 posts.

Oh no, I've drawn aggro from the guy who just expertly avoided actually answering the previous question asked to him.

There's no deeper thinking of alignments here, just mindless dismissal of my play.

This feels like Crescent's trying to hide their frustration that I'm voting them. If you were online at the time and saw Crescent's flurry of posts, it very much felt like Crescent having a "tantrum" (as Marci describes).

Frankly though, he's already pointed out three people as scum, someone to be scum if we're not, and also said an inactive is probably scum so he's probably wrong on the three of us anyway.

It reeks of flinging poop around and seeing where it sticks. He's pretty well thrown shade at half the players in the game in the first 100 posts.

This is where Crescent loses it entirely.

Nothing about what I did was "flinging poop around." Assuming there's three scum, I'm looking for three scum. I'm considering possible scenarios where one of the players I suspect isn't scum. This is how townies think through the game, which Crescent should know. Instead, Crescent acts like I'm desperately shading half the players, hoping something sticks.

Why would scum ever do this in the beginning of the game with no rhyme or reason? It's an absurd proposition, one that shows a total lack of thought. Crescent's just mindlessly applying a scum behavior ("scum trying to shade enough players to get a mislynch") to a situation where it doesn't apply at all.

I read this (and all the posts about this topic and from this moment) as over-reactions to me voting Crescent.

Oh and between saying I was scum with those two for no given reason and voting me I don't even appear in a post of his. I commented that he dodged a question and he voted me. Ok then.

So say he's not shitposting? What is he doing then? Blustering at the game in what doesn't resemble any legitimate attempt to scumhunt anyone. All he's trying to do is spread shade to as many people as possible, which is a scum-slanted action.

Again, Crescent suggests I'm spreading shade to as many people as possible, which just isn't true. Again, my take is that Crescent's attacking me because I voted them.

Crescent's simultaneously trying to dismiss/discredit me ("shitposting") while also attacking me as scum ("throwing shade wherever it sticks").

Is anyone else not surprised that Crescent isn't more curious about why I'm voting them? Can anyone point to something from Crescent that shows a genuine attempt to solve my alignment?

why are u so pressed about it then if its meaningless?

The problem is the insistence it isn't meaningless.

Crescent is concerned that I'm serious about my vote on them.

To sum it up: 3 of his posts are blank votes without a reason. The other 9?

Puts sus on Roden, then on me and Datisi.

Then on Scamper and everyone who hasn't posted yet, which are 3 people.

He then shades Ausuka.


He has shaded

eight players

and voted for three, in the first 104 posts of the game. Doesn't feel genuine at all.

More of the same. Crescent's upset that I'm trying to evaluate alignments in the first 104 posts of the game.

"Fling poop around and see where it sticks" is a tried and true scum strategy. The issue is, it tends to dilute your actual vote so much that it has no real power. The goal is you're hoping even one of the people you shade takes off as a train - Preferably someone you've never actually voted so it doesn't blow back directly on you.

If he were shitposting it'd be NAI to me. The fact that he voted me for pointing out he dodged a question was a mere continuance of his already anti-town behavior (His previous vote was also a direct countervote).

Anyways, very hard early defense of who's by a fair margin the scummiest player in the early game.. Generally does

not

come from scum.

Marci's way more likely to be town based on that one post.

Crescent assumes I voted them them for reasons that have nothing to do with why I voted them. I suspected Crescent before Crescent asked me any questions. I voted Crescent because I decided Roden was town.

There's just no real thought process here. Very concerning.

I wouldn't want to mislynch Crescent, since they're very engaged and active at the moment. If I'm wrong about this, I need someone to help me reach that understanding.

[Shoshin]

why

Upon further consideration, I've decided Alex is town.

What're your reads?

[Shoshin]

If you're town, Crescent, you have nothing to worry about.

For the sake of discussion, assume I'm town for a second. What're your reads?

[Shoshin]

That wasn't a case, Datisi, just thoughts I'm working through.

Your question, I'll come back to it later.

[Shoshin]

I thought someone finally agreed with my Alex read, I feel betrayed

His posts feel scummy but there's no clear reasons to suspect. A few things I liked: 163, and his approach to Bella. Enough to read as town. Your concerns (and mine) are likely stylistic, not indicative.

[Shoshin]

I'm fairly confident in Roden/Gamma/Ausuka/Marci/Alex as town.

[Shoshin]

Crescent, what's the difference between your town play and scum play? Why should I believe this is town you?

[Shoshin]

Scamper is town.

[Shoshin]

Scamper, what're your thoughts on Crescent's alignment?

[Shoshin]

What're your reads, Marci?

[Shoshin]

Shoshin does not feel like a threat to ML me at all and is probably scum. If anything I'd say I come off as aggressive, not defensive.

This post is very scummy.

Town don't usually think of the game in terms of "threats," that's more of how scum think.

[Shoshin]

Like, the most basic concern on every scum's mind is, "who are the threats to lim me?"

Town rarely think this way.

[Shoshin]

Hey Roden, I'd like your insight onto the game. I'm feeling lost.

[Shoshin]

Gamma, you should have learned lesson already... how you could ever suspect me here is beyond me.

[Shoshin]

I feel like one of shishon/crescent is scum but not entirely sure which

Why would you think there has to be one scum here?

[Shoshin]

she townreads me

Do you think your play merits a townread at this point?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Gamma

[Shoshin]

Current reads, from towny to scummy:

Ausuka
Roden
Scamper
Crescent
Marci
Bella
Alex
Datisi
Johnny
STD
Corwinoid
Gamma

Low confidence on all reads.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin still confuses me but I don't dislike the Gamma read I guess

I'm happy to help clear up your confusion.

[Shoshin]

I'm updating my reads as the game progresses, Ausuka. Not sure why that would confuse.

I limit explanations because it's helpful to see what people question (and what people pick up on their own, like Roden earlier).

Gamma's mechanical "Crescent or Shoshin is scum" is by far the scummiest thing in the game so far.

I wouldn't say I've been defending Marci all game. I called her town (and still maintain as much) but I'm not going to stake the game on this.

Crescent feels like misguided town. They're much noobier than I initially assumed, which explains away most of my concerns about them.

[Shoshin]

My impression earlier was that you were saying Marci's read on me never comes from scum but maybe I misunderstood

Nowhere near, though I may have worded the read stronger to get reactions. I'm just getting back into mafia after a very long absence, so there may be a few inconsistencies created by echoes of my past play (high confidence) with my current reality (low confidence).

[Shoshin]

What're your reads, Datisi?

[Shoshin]

mind elaborating on your read of me now?

You seem lifeless. Looks nothing like town you from three years ago. Unsure if this is due to time or alignment.

[Shoshin]

Hey Crescent, assume Alex & me are town for a second. Who are the scum?

[Shoshin]

Who are Johnny's partners?

[Shoshin]

I'm not sure what you're asking, Alex. Crescent's probably town despite posting like scum.

I understand why you're voting Bella, but I'm not interested in that lynch today.

I'd appreciate if you join me in sorting through Gamma/Datisi/Corwin/STD. We should lynch in this group today.

[Shoshin]

Crescent, can you link us to representative examples of your scum play?

[Shoshin]

My early read is that Datisi's town, felt like he's scumhunting and trying to sort the game. Probably worth noting how he appeared the instant you called him scummy though almost like that summoned him.

Datisi hasn't done anything this game. He's actively posting & following the game, yet has no reads. If this was three years ago, I'd lynch them outright. You read them town for mirroring a thought you had, but c'mon - it's rare you'll find a game where scum don't say something that another townie also thought.

[Shoshin]

I apologize about the l-word, my bad. Still adapting to modern ways.

[Shoshin]

Corwin's scum due to poe.

[Shoshin]

i don't lurk to "avoid posting content" or whatever else because i am more than good enough at scum to know what to post.

What's your win rate as scum?

[Shoshin]

i don't lurk to "avoid posting content" or whatever else because i am more than good enough at scum to know what to post.

What's your win rate as scum?

Or more precisely, how often do you survive as scum to endgame?

[Shoshin]

Let's just lynch Datisi.

[Shoshin]

I've already told you that almost everything I've posted today as town is something I'd post as scum, and that probably haven't changed very much. I've had exactly 1 scum game in the last couple of years, and it was in the 48/24 format I've played almost all of my games in.

What's the specific things you posted today that you wouldn't have posted as scum?

[Shoshin]

Crescent's either very bad town or scum. Doesn't matter to figure this out today.

Alex, please join me in lynching Gamma or Datisi, your choice which one.

[Shoshin]

Sorry, didn't mean to say l-word. Keep forgetting. I meant lim.

Hey Marci! Will you help me vote Gamma or Datisi?

[Shoshin]

Johnny's town.

[Shoshin]

johnny has not posted between 341 and 413?

I reevaluated him after Crescent mentioned he was scummy. Realized he's obvtown.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Datisi

[Shoshin]

"Guy who replaces out day 1 as scum"

I'm known by many as this type of player. Something to consider, Crescent.

[Shoshin]

I wouldn't replace out as scum. I'm just saying I have that reputation from the past. The implication is more that I wouldn't be putting this much effort/attention to the game.

[Shoshin]

Alex, join us in voting Datisi.

[Shoshin]

Spouting out 5 reads per hour without justifying any of them in no way is helpful to a town.

Justification is scummy & anti-town.

[Shoshin]

shoshin has done similar "i would/wouldn't do xyz if i was scum here guys!!!" while being scum, so it's not actually indicative of alignment.

You think I'm scum here?

[Shoshin]

i have zero opinion on your alignment due to the fact that you chronically refuse to explain anything that you do.

This is untrue. I've explained a lot of stuff.

[Shoshin]

"Guy who replaces out day 1 as scum"

I'm known by many as this type of player. Something to consider, Crescent.

Lolno
Why did you not broach this topic when it first came up?
VOTE: Shoshin

What are you talking about?

[Shoshin]

You only responded to that from Crescent like a page later
Feels a bit like you were floundering, saw that, and tried to utilize it in your favor

The game is moving fast, I can't respond to everything immediately.

Where did you see me floundering?

[Shoshin]

Crescent seems upset that they won't be able to easily mislim me. Or something. Such a huge over-reaction to nothing.

[Shoshin]

Datisi regardless of alignment is probably genuinely pissed. I agree he's capable of a lot more than he's been showing but if town I think he probably needs some space to get back into the game

Why would Datisi be genuinely pissed here?

[Shoshin]

I'm not saying I'd have replaced out of this game as scum, Ausuka. Some people might think that about me, but they're wrong. I don't mean to trust tell here at all.

I don't get why townies would be so upset about this either way? I'm pointing out a reputation, not confirming it as accurate.

Crescent's response, for example. They're sort of imploding, to an extent that I think is much more likely to come from scum than town. Datisi, similar. Gamma as well. I'd be very surprised if there's not at least two scum within this group.

[Shoshin]

Gamma, you always misread me for stupid reasons. What are your concerns here?

[Shoshin]

I'm not saying I'd have replaced out of this game as scum, Ausuka. Some people might think that about me, but they're wrong. I don't mean to trust tell here at all.

I don't get why townies would be so upset about this either way? I'm pointing out a reputation, not confirming it as accurate.

Crescent's response, for example. They're sort of imploding, to an extent that I think is much more likely to come from scum than town. Datisi, similar. Gamma as well. I'd be very surprised if there's not at least two scum within this group.

Why even bring it up if it isn’t true?

I didn't think it through much. The thought occurred to me that I have this reputation as well, and I was curious whether and how this information would impact Crescent's read of me.

[Shoshin]

You’re wishy-washy as fuck here, with no tangible reasons as to why
Also, I don’t take well to this sort of comment. Plus, pretty sure you were scum that I read correctly in A Littls Boonie Told Me

I was town that game. You've been incorrectly reading me as scum in all the games I'm town. And I'm confused every game, because you keep misreading me for the same reasons. It's like, why haven't you figured this out yet? I guess you just misremember the alignments to make yourself feel better.

[Shoshin]

You’re wishy-washy as fuck here, with no tangible reasons as to why

Changing reads isn't scummy. It's how I always play, especially now that I don't have anywhere close to the confidence I used to.

[Shoshin]

Crescent's my only real read.

Why is Crescent town?