Large Normal 230 - Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

You keep mentioning Betrayal like that's any type of accurate meta. I was in for 1 short day phase, in a dead slot, in a mech heavy game based on a game I don't even like.

I effectively don't count as even playing in that game.

You were in a very similar position that game to this one. I really doubt you FAIL to see that. That’s why I distrust you so heavily currently. Maybe I’m wrong, in which case I’ll admit it but I’m not gonna fucking kow-tow to you over it when you refused to do it on my terms but now are telling me to do it on yours. But the fact you are pushing as scum NOW is a red goddamn flag, because you realize nothing in your current arsenal will deter me, so you have to kill me in order to stop my motion against you. My legislacerator vibe is at its maximum currently. And I’m no damn Neophyte to be hoodwinked into a grisly untimely death.

[Gamma Emerald]

i've been pushing absolutely nothing lol

me saying something is not me pushing

So what you’re saying is, you’re throwing shade. I got that right?

[Gamma Emerald]

If anyone thinks that quickhammer was bad for this game, we got 40 pages of amazing insight and analysis stringing from nearly me alone.

You are welcome.

But what if it WAS really the hammer? I’d like to refer everyone to Pink Ball’s sig, because this is definitely a case where the potential for disaster far outweighs the current “benefit” of reality. My general practice for doing generally anti-town things is it has to have a DEFINED reason that I’m doing it. If I were in an open setup and believed my role to be the most important element to the setup, I might quickhammer someone without a claim knowing nothing would sway me enough to dissuade the lim regarding any claims.
But that’s not the case here for sure, given Boon has hard claimed VT at this point. If he really was VT, why does he think his own existence is more imperative than an unknown role? And there’s no wiggle room for a claim of awareness of the wagon state given he’s affirmed quite emphatically that he didn’t know entirely what was going on. He put the life of a potential PR at risk as VT for no reason than to fulfill his urge to quickhammer if he is town. That just doesn’t sit right with me. I am strictly utilitarian about my gambits and lies as town. I try to think about the deep ramifications of what I’m doing and what the consequences are when the ruse is dropped.

Lies, pranks, and jokes all exist upon a scale that measures deception, with jokes being the most benign form of deception and lies being the most treacherous. Jokes are brief falsehoods told to make light of a funny contradiction or just lift spirits. A short term gambit such as a low-stakes fake guilty attempt, or the Mason fakeclaim gambit I suggested in a recent normal is at about this level.
Pranks have a somewhat longer lifespan, but still have the big reveal as an integral part of the ploy. I would compare this to a fake innocent result on someone in a situation where your role wouldn’t allow it but thanks to a partial claim you can pull it off with the knowledge that upon your flip, the jig is up. Imo this “prank” level of deception is the PERFECT level of deception when doing serious gambits as town, as it persists for a solid enough timeframe to make an impact, but doesn’t make you an ass once it’s revealed. That fake inno gambit I referenced? That was a real play I did. My intent was to get people to stop trying to Lin a player I had never had real cause to SR, and it worked! Obviously I had to reveal it in massclaim that I was not being truthful, but as that point I had averted the potential miselim, giving a full return on the investment of social capital I had made.
The final step, the lie, is a very bad thing to be trying to pull off as town. A lie in this context is a falsehood told with little to no intent of retracting it in time to not do severe damage to the gamestate. Fake guilties as town fall squarely into this region, and is why I’d never entertain them unless I intended to pull the rug out well before the critical moment. In that sort of case if falls closer to a prank, since the short timespan resembles a joke but the severity of the move brings it right into that middle ground.

The issue with Boon is he doesn’t seem to adhere to ANY of this. His entire MO seems to be to act anti-town in ways entirely reckless and harmful to town, in order to build a refuge-in-audacity character and permit himself to make such brazen move as scum. It should really be quashed, as town one should never need to outright lie in order to get their way, ever, and one should never have to smear their townplay to such a degree in order to play a good scum game.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm the leading wagon as town. I get to be cranky.

This doesn't happen for me often, let it go, I'm one with the wind and snow.

Hrrrmm.

[Gamma Emerald]

they both noticed Nero scumminess

This is straight up self-indulgent confbiased garbage.

[Gamma Emerald]

The issue with Boon is he doesn’t seem to adhere to ANY of this. His entire MO seems to be to act anti-town in ways entirely reckless and harmful to town

point out 1 lie that isn't a fake claim, please.

And this is yet again an opinion.

I am reckless by personality, this is shown in my scum games as well. But I put the mental effort into knowing Mafia Theory at an extreme high level, I get to play how my personality thrives in.

My point is essentially your behavior is as damaging as a lie to the game.

[Gamma Emerald]

we would have just had this day phase after the night phase with more information, i would have likely drawn an investigation or a vig shot, which both would be fine because it screws over scum's ability to misfade me.

Why are you saying that drawing a vig shot on yourself because of your scummy play is a good thing?

I wasn't playing the game at the time really, and I'm VT. I was the definition of a solid Vig shot, and scum don't want LHF to be vig shot because it takes out misfade options.

Who DO scum want to be vig shot? Also why the confidence at there being a vig?

[Gamma Emerald]

Guillotina, I have a genuine question. How would you say a “god of mafia” forms reads, from an objective standpoint? Is tribalistic us-vs.-them logic part of it?

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think your method of forming reads this game lines up with your stance that you are a “god of mafia”? Because you pretty much seem to be saying “this person agrees with me so they’re town”, and vice versa.

[Gamma Emerald]

God Of Mafia is a persona, a character, if you have roleplayed you'd understand what I mean. Sometimes I use him to light up the thread and gather reactions. God of Mafia is arrogant, self absorbed, egomaniac etc and he is good for that and just for that.

Fair enough.
Though I still feel like you’re letting your own biases rule you.

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think I'm stupid enough to believe that wolves are that one-dimensional? Come on now.

Don't insult my intelligence

.

I mean, you're voting town so I think you don't need me to do it.

NERO IS BEING MEAN. HE'S SCUMMY. is like all I hear anymore.

God Of Mafia is a persona, a character, if you have roleplayed you'd understand what I mean. Sometimes I use him to light up the thread and gather reactions. God of Mafia is arrogant, self absorbed, egomaniac etc and he is good for that and just for that.

Fair enough.
Though I still feel like you’re letting your own biases rule you.

What biases are those? This is my first game with Nero.

You seem pre-disposed against Nero and are letting people who “agree” with you feed your ego in a maybe-manipulative way
If I’m wrong tell me pls

[Gamma Emerald]

“More work than anyone”, what a joke. A few ISO walls is not enough to qualify for that statement. Me and Nero have really been the chief developers of the game’s progress so far, at least at the start. But it won’t do to give credit to the very people he’s trying to discredit, NOW DOES IT?

[Gamma Emerald]

Glitch
TheDuke
TheGoldenParadox
Umlaut
May
Non lmh
DrippingGoofball

I'd like to see more posts from you. You are about 40% of the player list and you have not contributed much.

Yeah I know
Maybe in a few days I'll feel better but I'm really down on mafia right now.

Okay I was unsure on whether I wanted to call this out but here goes. DGB has been giving me some vibes of her scumplay in The Thing Mafia (hilariously also modded by Cakez), and this kinda is the capstone to that feeling. In that game iirc either she or her hydra partner was burnt out from playing scum a lot, and it affected their activity levels and made them obvscum iirc. I kinda get a similar sense of apathy in this game, plus DGB is seemingly abusing that to make questionable pushes without explaining why at all. It’s not entirely a meta case but the meta gives me a stronger feeling DGB is scum here.
If we really wanna find a compromise this is something I’d be okay with.

[Gamma Emerald]

I understand the logic behind holding off from voting him.

How?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you town read Nero? Who else do you townread?
How about scums?

He’s been playing pretty similar to MBoS imo, and just been pretty driven. Also I feel like he’s on the town side of my “salty town vs. sassy scum” tell for him (but I haven’t used it in so long idr if that’s the right calibration on that)
I also townread Norway, Taylor, you, and ABR, to throw out some notable ones. IV I still TR but it’s not a strong as it originally was.
For scum I definitely think Boon is one, DGB has also actively pinged me for the reasons I gave before, and I think 1 more max is probably in the lurkers based on gamestate. Beyond that idr have a defined scumpool rn. Muh still is kinda sus but I’ve lost track of the original scent there

[Gamma Emerald]

My high effort game has 100% failure rate, it makes everyone want to yeet me.

And then when I flip town my reads are ignored and no one looks at the wagon.

You can't dictate the amount of effort I am willing to put in.

[Gamma Emerald]

This sounds like a player who does not care about this game.

And?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think assuming or hunting a 3p is scummy or dumb. Like scum will hunt 3p b/c they can't hunt themselves. If there's an SK they'll be 2 kills unless they hit the same target so I think speculating on that is dumb.

ofc Guil will take that as me soft claiming 3p but...lol

This is a mind meld to me but it’s a theory mind meld so not as meaningful

[Gamma Emerald]

Nero, have you ever felt at one point that Norwee could have pocketed you? Or you cooperate with her because of genuine mindmelds and such?

not really, no. The only time I felt Norway could be scummy is when he kept defending Taylor. Norway and I have played several times now and I think we think very much alike and it's why we get along so well.

Also, why do ppl keep calling norway a girl?

Lol. I've called him as girl not out of spite or anything, it's just his avatar is really girly and confuses me.

Boy is in his username :/

[Gamma Emerald]

drippinggoofball town

Interesting, why?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think scum!FL makes himself a martyr.

He does that a lot actually but I don’t think that’s what he wanted THIS game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Norwegian is a noobie.

He’s not and that’s fucking disgusting, in fact that whole post is disgusting.

[Gamma Emerald]

My Mafia Philosophy is always rush down the VT claim Day 1.

So you did exactly what I wanted you guys to do.

Nero, Gamma, and Noobie Norwegian took the bait so hard, and I was trying to tell Gamma over and over I’m doing this on purpose. But he didn’t realize it.

I also tried to see if Taylor who isn’t that experienced with me understood that I was going VT Martyr.

You’ll see soon enough you didn’t bait SHIT.

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually fuck off. Our friendship is over.

[Gamma Emerald]

That entire claim looks like a stupid gambit. Too much large and red text. And yeah, BP is not notified of being shot in a normal.

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s not exactly a one for one, because the pool is so vague

[Gamma Emerald]

People not posting doesn't mean they're scum; that's a poor argument. People have real lives and sometimes shit happens

Yea
I’ve been dealing with a spot of sickness today

[Gamma Emerald]

Boon should stick to modding until he learns how to play. Mafia, more so as town than scum (imo), is a team game and Boon is clearly incapable of playing with a team. He's immature and impulsive. Boon is an antisocial narcissistic with the social intelligence of a domestic turkey. I don't really believe his song and dance about being a "heel" or intentionally trying to get lynched. It feels like he's making excuses for poor play and just doesn't want to accept responsibility for his actions. His belief that the three biggest voices against him (me, norway and Gamma) all being scum and those defending him (ABR, NPOM, Guil) were town is just bad surface level play. His elimination was good as town may finally scumhunt.

Knowing that Boon and I were TvT it would make sense to WANT to keep Boon and I around b/c our 1v1 would eat up all the attention and prevent us from scumhunting. This is the conclusion Boon should have reached but he has neither the skill nor the humility to do as such.

All of this effort trying to discredit a dead vanilla is quite something!

VOTE: Nero Cain

Why would eliminate from here?

Be as detailed as possible: DrippingGoofball, Glitch, innocentvillager, May, NoPowerOverMe, ABR

Real cop would hold the vote until fully claiming their guilty.
VOTE: Guillotina
Willing Suspension of Disbelief was already strained but this doesn’t fly.

[Gamma Emerald]

guil either out your guilty os STFU

No! I will not shut up and let wolves take control over the room again.

oof

[Gamma Emerald]

Guil is just a Boon lvl player that town reads his defenders and scum reads his votes/those calling him scum. I don't really feel like putting up with his nonsence so vote stays till he outs his guilty or stops talking or admits to the gambit.

Not even Boon is THAT bad.

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s no universe I can envision where Nero is town and Guillo isn’t lying. Tbh there might be merit to resolving Nero first but the unrepentant liar should be punished post-haste imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

if you are a rolecop then RC's don't get VT. they get vanilla.

I'm not a rolecop, that is a mafia role scum!

This is WRONG!

[Gamma Emerald]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game
This page LITERALLY says Rolecop can be either alignment.

[Gamma Emerald]

if guillotina tracked nero, who is confirmed pure VT, in a normal, there is NO WAY that they could've gotten a result that was "Nero visited X"

just want to make sure im understanding this

so the redcheck was, completely faked as well, whether nero was checked or not

We were witnesses to the absolute worst play in all of mafia history.

An actual, really powerful town role faking a tracking result on a vanilla townie.

I've seen everything now.

Yeah that was stupid

if guillotina tracked nero, who is confirmed pure VT, in a normal, there is NO WAY that they could've gotten a result that was "Nero visited X"

just want to make sure im understanding this

so the redcheck was, completely faked as well, whether nero was checked or not

We were witnesses to the absolute worst play in all of mafia history.

An actual, really powerful town role faking a tracking result on a vanilla townie.

I've seen everything now.

that is fucking hilarious coming from you with a 2005 join date

I do NOT get this blowback at all.

[Gamma Emerald]

This is good for us and narrows down our scumpool actually.

Yeah I have to agree, assuming it WAS the scumkill. Unless scum had it in their head Nero fakeclaimed VT as a PR, scum had to feel pretty damn pressured by Nero, probably pointing to his suspect pool.

[Gamma Emerald]

Checking in. I have a work event this afternoon and into tonight and all day tomorrow. So I'll be able to do some reading come Sunday.

Anyone want to give me some cliffs notes?

sure, why not

[Gamma Emerald]

lmao what even is this game

the redcheck was, completely faked as well, whether nero was checked or not

Either Guillo was a bumbling idiot or there is a redirector in the game, and Guillo tracked Nero but his track was redirected onto scum but he wasn't told this. Those are the only two possibilities I can come up with. WHY would Guillo fake the red check??

Redirector isn't normal. Guillo is just an arrogant sack of shit.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not impressed with dgb to be honest.

Inclined to agree.

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe you could reread?

[Gamma Emerald]

JacksonVirgo-was suspicious of this slot b/c I kept seeing them on but wasn't posting. I didn't like his catchup.
muh316-felt early gul vote was go with the flow and scummy. thought his reaction and justification for this reaction was scummy
Tayl0r Swift-using WIFOM, disconnect from the thread
Albert B. Rampage-yucky intro and vote on an inactive slot, TL did nothing but complain.
innocentvillager-"look at me im doing things" not scumhunting. stopped being active.


ulmat-i just didn't like his Glitch vote. I don't think Glitch was fishing as he claimed.
tpg-look @ that ISO

this was p much Nero's D1 scumpool
I'll refrain from making a call on anyhting here until reviewing it alongside potential changed pools

[Gamma Emerald]

DrippingGoofball, Glitch, innocentvillager, May, NoPowerOverMe, ABR

the post boon-flip pool

[Gamma Emerald]

I think we should vote DGB, IV, glitch, or muh out today

[Gamma Emerald]

don't know about that muh guy but i have a person pushing someone who is dead null after 109 pages
i will vote for that person
VOTE: muh

So one inactive person defending another inactive person. Nice.

Bluh
Can you three give takes on the ACTIVE players?

[Gamma Emerald]

In theory I am fine with eliminating a lurker, but I am a little suspicious of the anti-lurker postrs tyring to get a quick elimination rather than pressuring the lurkers to post more.

Yeah this is about where I’m at

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: non lmh
Tbh I don’t even know if I’d be good with a replacement here because I reviewed the 4 posts and they actually kinda sucked
Also it’s not Imh, it’s Lmh

[Gamma Emerald]

he's inactive, has 4 posts total which is absolutely pitiful, and the content of those posts aren't good.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not in a complete rush

[Gamma Emerald]

Not really....

Yes, expect more content from me, but do not expect me to read through all this slog fest, I'll try skimming through and finding the meat. Bring stuff to my attention nd Ill tell you if its scummy or not.


TBH im disappointed, I thought this was going to be a doomed scum slot that I could wriggle and fight my way out of. Now I actually have to do work instead.

you can probably read D1 normally with the caveat you skip everything past the failed quickhammer on muh

[Gamma Emerald]

Bluh
I acknowledge things are happening but I don’t have the time/energy to handle it

[Gamma Emerald]

unwnd I think you need to give hard thoughts on the situation rn
I see some theoreticals but not much extrapolation from them

[Gamma Emerald]

If scum is winning, they're either pulling the strings or just letting town eat themselves alive

Norwee and Nero were pushing for Pretentious the hardest.

Guillo did Guillo things and he got the Guillotine.

Scum didn't have to do a single thing in this game so far.

The good news is that we got rid of the crazy slots and it's only day 3. With 4 scum, we can still afford 3 mislynches.

We can afford TWO. The third is the game-loser.

[Gamma Emerald]

I want more ppl on this and I want a claim.

Everyone needs to fall in for this to work.

[Gamma Emerald]

If I were scum I don’t kill Nero N2, I try to ride in his pocket (though he would be the one pocketed, which kinda kills the metaphor)
I have personal motivations that would entice me to leave him alive as long as possible.

[Gamma Emerald]

It looked like you tried to take a card out of ABR’s deck there

[Gamma Emerald]

TGP is probably the only player here who might immediately grasp why I don’t kill Nero here

[Gamma Emerald]

It looked like you tried to take a card out of ABR’s deck there

What did you mean by this Gamma

Calling for the wagon, pressure, and claim like that all felt very ABR-esque

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma/DGB/you/Starbuck more or less.

Hey I agree with one of these, I assume Gamma is your priority?

I’d appreciate if you are forthcoming with the specifics of this btw

[Gamma Emerald]

Why the 1v1? You haven’t actually fleshed out any legitimate reasons for ABR to be scum. If I’m gonna follow you here it’s not gonna be because of some seemingly-false bravado with no substance.
Adios, Toreasnore.

[Gamma Emerald]

From my own experience (as scum), if we're winning then we're doing something right and we're likely going to keep doing it. This wagon doesn't seem like scum are bothered about it at all

I don’t disagree with this
But ABR does have a point, the top 4 active slots are dead so we should probably get content from the inactive slots before trying to lim more active people. Civ Mafia was infamous for being a game where town ate itself alive while scum sat in the shadows practically laughing their asses off. I’d like to not repeat that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok, so flesh out a reason hes town for me.

Fuck no. You’re the person who replaced into the 4poster slot and voted someone who is directing the game without so much as a word to why. Burden of proof is on you.

[Gamma Emerald]

From my own experience (as scum), if we're winning then we're doing something right and we're likely going to keep doing it. This wagon doesn't seem like scum are bothered about it at all

I don’t disagree with this
But ABR does have a point, the top 4 active slots are dead so we should probably get content from the inactive slots before trying to lim more active people. Civ Mafia was infamous for being a game where town ate itself alive while scum sat in the shadows practically laughing their asses off. I’d like to not repeat that.

Who in your eyes is the inactive slots that need more content? I think Muh is one of those and I again, would love to see votes on him.

That’s fair, but Vax is present and accounted for rn. Muh’s still AWOL. I could vote muh but I also don’t want to let the pressure off of someone who hasn’t earned it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok, so flesh out a reason hes town for me.

Fuck no. You’re the person who replaced into the 4poster slot and voted someone who is directing the game without so much as a word to why. Burden of proof is on you.

Im asking for your opinion on ABR and you cant give it.

You want one thing I think is towny about ABR? Okay fine. I think the way he dealt with the townblock D1 seems like he wasn’t afraid of it like scum should be.
Your turn. What’s scummy about ABR? I want the whole deal, any retroactive additional reasons later on will be treated as a scumclaim.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm fine with the pressure as long as it amounts to something, I think the interaction between you three is a net positive in some regard. Could you see Vax/ABR duking it out like this a form of distance?

I think it’s a bit excessive but it’s not impossible.

[Gamma Emerald]

@gamma

So whats your read on him? I may have been shot out of a canon due to some things.

Id like to know your read. Im assuming from the above you think hes town.

Just town?

Super town?

Leans town?

I gave my reason. Now give yours. This isn’t playtime.

[Gamma Emerald]

Umlaut has actually pinged me as town from his D2 play

[Gamma Emerald]

@gamma

So whats your read on him? I may have been shot out of a canon due to some things.

Id like to know your read. Im assuming from the above you think hes town.

Just town?

Super town?

Leans town?

I gave my reason. Now give yours. This isn’t playtime.

Im asking for a read. It;s not that hard.

Hers mine on you:

Null-Scum lean

I don’t take kindly to changing the goal posts. And I don’t feel threatened by the scumread of someone whose reads seemingly come from the aether.

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw I do think you’re town rn unwnd
Your determination here is impeccable

[Gamma Emerald]

Vaxkiller is trying to form a wagon on someone with no explanation of why that read exists in the first place. PASS.

[Gamma Emerald]

@gamma

I just realized you are voting me. Was this leftover?

VOTE: non lmh
Tbh I don’t even know if I’d be good with a replacement here because I reviewed the 4 posts and they actually kinda sucked
Also it’s not Imh, it’s Lmh

Found it.

Gamma, unvote and revote with an explanation.

Bruh what is this even
I wasn’t convinced by anything you’d posted that you weren’t scum. Tbh I’m still not but you’re active so
VOTE: Muh

[Gamma Emerald]

I think we should vote DGB, IV, glitch, or muh out today

Why?

NKA

[Gamma Emerald]

If anyone wants to help me

Right now my established town meta on Gamma is that he is very opinionated towards his pushes, often using a lot of 'fuck' and CAPS in order to drive the point home of dislike, but other than that he remains pretty obstinate and never a factor in the thread

Does this seem wrong?

Wdym never a factor
Honestly I’m pretty pissed off you think I’m not doing that much here, I get you replaced in but I was pretty involved D1

[Gamma Emerald]

And the rage is not alignment exclusive but it exhibits differently as scum vs. as town. Read Mystery Box of Silver 10’s D1 for ragey scum!gamma

[Gamma Emerald]

I think you’re being very basic if you assume scum cluster like that a bunch. Isn’t the common behavior the exact opposite of what you’re stating is the case here, which is not grouping up?

[Gamma Emerald]

Nah. But I think you are.

[Gamma Emerald]

I really don’t.

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma, how do you feel about me townreading you on emotional scumrange? is it a reliable towntell for you?

I get emotional as both alignments, but it exhibits differently. I tend to be indignant as scum but a hot mess as town. That’s how I see it rn.

Inno. You dont even say this is a bad idea, you just tell me your not doing it.

I'm just going to move on and assume.

Gamma, your around, I need a claim please. We are game solving this, and I want to do this as quickly as possible.

Could you first post up your reads? I do agree it’s interesting you’re singling people out here, specifically IV who kinda seems to be your TR?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you think scum is in a bad spot when 3 MLs have been chained with what seems to be a majority of town participants?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well I’m a VT so I don’t really have much to declare myself.
If we’re popcorning I choose DGB.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well I’m a VT so I don’t really have much to declare myself.
If we’re popcorning I choose DGB.

No one agreed to popcorn and no one voted you to go first.

Vax asked me to go first and I graciously accepted despite concerns, and I didn’t say we had to popcorn but I was pointing out my pick if we were.

[Gamma Emerald]

Game where we were both cult just finished, we had a joint win with town

[Gamma Emerald]

I won in a large theme as 3P. I'm excited and i believe in being transparent as town.

I don’t see how announcing your victories is “bring transparent” vs. just boasting.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm totally 100% town

Can a Neapolitan Neighborizer neighborize a GOON?

Here’s my issue with Vax’s claim. Yes it’s POSSIBLE to have role that can check VT or not, and Neighborize VTs only. But based on the name of the claimed role that’s NOT the functionality. You’d have to be like, Neapolitan Loyal (presuming Vax is town) Simple Neighborizer.

[Gamma Emerald]

That role doesn’t make sense to me, pretty sure normal roles don’t work that way

[Gamma Emerald]

That role doesn’t make sense to me, pretty sure normal roles don’t work that way

EXPLAIN? do not let unwd's flail distract you.

Why are you attacking me? I’m on YOUR side here.
But to be specific, look at this
Subject: Changes to Normal Games

Hybrid roles

This has been a sort of ambiguous area in the past, but we are explicitly allowing what I'm going to call hybrid roles. This blurs the line between roles and modifiers to a degree, but allows some additional designs.

Hybrid roles are roles that have multiple roles. Here are some examples:

• Mason tracker. This featured in one of the first pre-designed normals, so it has precedent with mason technically being a role and not a modifier.
  
• Doctor vigilante. This role would be able to either kill someone or protect someone each night.
  
• Multitasking roleblocker doctor. This role would be able to roleblock someone and protect someone, and could do both on the same night, either with the same or with different targets.
  
• Cop 1-shot vigilante. This role could function as a cop on any night, and as a vig on one night of its choice, but not both on the same night.
  
• 1-shot Cop 1-shot Vigilante. This actually already exists as a jack of all trades with these abilities, and will continue to be called as such.

While this allows for some conceivably extremely powerful roles, of course, balance reviews will still apply.

These hybrid roles don’t really mutate the functionality of the roles. But Vax, through unwnd, has claimed “Neapolitan Neighborizer” with a CONDITION that only vanillas get neighborized. That does not happen without additional clauses, but when pressed on it unwnd did not express any sentiment suggesting I could be mistaken, and instead doubled down on a nonsense claim. Idk if Vax is scum but I’m thinking unwnd is. But I also think you have a point about a lurker neighborizing a lurker.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: unwnd
I think YOU’RE the one shooting yourself in the foot by pushing a horrible angle

[Gamma Emerald]

LMAO HOWIS REFERENCING NORMAL RULES ILLEGAL ANGLESHOOTING

[Gamma Emerald]

I am certain unwnd is scum but Vax is also likely scum.
And it’s literally just me referring to normal rules and guidelines for why I don’t believe a claim. The read has nothing to do with that honestly, it has to do with doubling down on bullshit.

[Gamma Emerald]

LMAO HOWIS REFERENCING NORMAL RULES ILLEGAL ANGLESHOOTING

Referencing/Paraphrasing is ENTIRELY different from just DIRECTLY QUOTING. You literally took something not in this game and applied it here.

BUT IT’S DIRECTLY RELEVANT.
And if you REALLY thought it was illegal you’d be reporting it and leaving it at that, but you have to blister about it in-thread because you know you just got owned with FACTS AND LOGIC.

[Gamma Emerald]

You didn't refer. You quoted. You tried to take your argument beyond the current game and validate your claim by referring to rules that may or may not apply here.

THAT RULE LITERALLY 100% APPLIES TO THIS GAME, AS IT IS A NORMAL!!!!

[Gamma Emerald]

I literally have. You doubled down on a shitty claim when you could have accepted that there was a chance you didn’t have all the answers on Vax’s role. But you do have all the answers because you’re buddies, or at the very least you are taking a role that should function in some way and interpreting it in a way that attempts to clear you, which is not towny behavior.

[Gamma Emerald]

Pretty much the only way you don’t get limmed today is if Vax can magically bail you out here with some perfect clarification

[Gamma Emerald]

Vax is a Neapolitan/Neighborizer.

He

neighborizes

with anyone who is VT,

but receives NO RESULT for anyone else.

On N1 he targeted May (me) and on N2 he targeted Umluaut. N3 he targeted you IV. What this means however is that the reason that DGB claims Vax got no result is not because of their role, rather it is how Vax's role works. I believe their claim to be completely fake.

I might be stupid but I'm not dumb

You’re scum. That claim doesn’t make sense as described, you’d have to be both simple and loyal (presuming town alignment). Vax couldn’t even clear shit up and followed you in doubling down on an impossible-as-described claim. Plus generally combined roles don’t have the ability to use both actions at once unless saddled with ANOTHER modifier. So either the NRG approved a role flying in the face of every established normal design convention, or it’s a fakey fake role!

[Gamma Emerald]

I haven’t confirmed shit. Your claim is preposterous and you failed to adequately explain it.

[Gamma Emerald]

You have had ample opportunity to clarify that unwnd was mixing shit up but instead doubled down on the bullshit because you knew you were in a bad spot and that was your only solution. I’ve been cornered scum so I know how to spot it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Changing who is what changes nothing about how nonsense your claim is. And just because you changed what a negative result would look like doesn’t change the fact your role NEEDS modifiers you haven’t claimed to make it work. This isn’t Booneytoonz where you can just throw out some crazy variant that has one action happen based on another and expect that to pass the bar.

[Gamma Emerald]

So yeah DGB is caught scum, I am the actual combined Neighborizer/Neapolitan and DGB cannot possibly take back that post 3190 where they directly said Vax targeted IV

So Umlaut didn't vote the recruiter, but the fellow recruit?

Uh uh

Yeah this just doesn’t check out at all if the “recruits” all end up in the same PT like the implication seems to be.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Non Imh

I think going after lurkers actually makes a lot of sense right now. Assuming Nero

was

killed by the Mafia, if the whole team were present and active someone would have been hard against that kill. So unless one scum just strongarmed it over their buddies' objections (and that's pretty rare) I'd find it pretty likely that the team consists of multiple highly disengaged lurkers and maybe one seriously active player.

This was D3, aka after umlaut would have been recruited
The only possible explanation is that unwnd just failed to explain to his “recruits” that being recruited = bring conftown, which is a horrible oversight imo

[Gamma Emerald]

This whole “Eureka!” act is fake as shit

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma

What scum roles would result in a negative to a gunsmith?

Mafia doctor and traitor

[Gamma Emerald]

Which thinking about it, ABR’s claim reflects negatively, it’s a super-low-power claim which is a hallmark of scum playing it safe while claiming, and seems like something a mafia doc would claim.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ninja is counter to watcher, not to tracker

[Gamma Emerald]

Plus a ninja would still give a gun result

[Gamma Emerald]

Probably ascetic, or just not sending the obvious tracker target to do the kill.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you keep forgetting that I'm a combined neapolitan neighborizer

Again, roles don’t work that way

"combined neapolitan neighborizer" would neighborize regardless of the neapolitan result, barring extra modifiers
are you CERTAIN that's not the case? I've been pretty abrasive about this, but in the interest of fairness I'll give you the chance to double-check your side.

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
Okay so the role makes sense now, and while I still think a lurker targeting a lurker is weird as all heck for the neighborhood side I don't think it's too weird for the neap side?
VOTE: ABR
his claim is weak and super scum indicative, plus it conflicts with rolestopper + BP + UB

[Gamma Emerald]

MATE
dude just said the neighborizer works on anyone, not just VT
You sure you aren't scum DGB?

[Gamma Emerald]

neapolitan checks if a person is VT or not VT
a VT result = conftown, a not VT could be scum or town PR
anyone does mean scum but both n1 and n2 gave VT results

[Gamma Emerald]

yes

[Gamma Emerald]

neapolitan can 100% be a scum role

[Gamma Emerald]

it's essentially a weaker rolecop imo

[Gamma Emerald]

best move is probably to kill them off, 1 shot roles are the hallmark of feeble scum fakeclaims

[Gamma Emerald]

do we see a reason not to lim ABR rn?
Also, does that glitch-ABR associative go both ways?

[Gamma Emerald]

uivfliavnflbnglbgu

*sigh*

[Gamma Emerald]

Are we suggesting a no elim? That seems a bit crazy tbh

[Gamma Emerald]

I think neap neighbor's intent would be to rolefish if it were a scum role
neighborhood happens regardless of neap result so on a not-VT you could try to get the target to trust you and claim their role to you

[Gamma Emerald]

yes, I asked unwnd and he confirmed that with the mod

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I'm more willing to trust unwnd over dgb

[Gamma Emerald]

These are things I'm interested in hearing. I know you have it in you to make stream-of-consciousness like posts Gamma, so if you did so it would really help my sorting process.

I think the way you two have released information about your roles, your process has felt more organic than hers. You had been stuck to one idea of your role until I had convinced you to double-check, at which point you realized it worked more as I had described. DGB meanwhile kept a rather nebulous claim going for a while, content to let people perceive her as one shot for ??? motives. If she seemed like she was trying to evade the scum NK that would be one thing but I don't think that was the plan there, I feel more like she was trying to edge out massclaim without committing, and when there was so many X-shot roles claimed she decided to claim full rolestopper.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, have you forgotten the neighbors gambit and their claim that was full of holes? You mentioned it yourself.

when I dialed down the aggression that's when I managed to get unwnd to double check and patch some of my issues
the only think bothering me about it now is the "targeting lurkers" issue

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay TGP is scum here

[Gamma Emerald]

Glitch - 2 shot vig taht shot umlaut
Starbuck - No claim
Insanoflex - 2-Shot Gunsmith (Claims NO GUN on ABR N2, Claims NO GUN on TGP n3)
Gamma Emerald - VT
TheGoldenParadox - VT
Albert B. Rampage - 1-shot Bodyguard
NoPowerOverMe - VT
innocentvillager - Universal Backup (Now 1BP Tracker, Glitch visited Umlaut, Starbuck visited no one n2)
unwnd - Neo Neighborizer
Vaxkiller - VT
DrippingGoofball - Rolestopper

@Noraa

[Gamma Emerald]

TGP is asking questions answered for a while
He's scum trying to get on the same page to formulate an agenda with what's going down.

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah idk what npom is going for here

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe??? I think the claimed power is so disparate it kinda has to be 4 scum because we'd never have enough to counter 5

[Gamma Emerald]

Y'all killed Jacko?! YOU MONSTERS >:(

he repped out.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like abr is either town or mafia doctor with what scum seem to have been claiming

[Gamma Emerald]

fyi I don't think scum being in the weaksauce pr claims and dgb being scum who claimed full rolestopper after noticing the amount of weak claims are exclusive

[Gamma Emerald]

Glitch definitely gave up, and if I'm reading how he treated ABR they're clearly scum together. This goes against your result though Insano

no it doesn't
gunsmith has mafia roles it can get a no result against

[Gamma Emerald]

fyi I don't think scum being in the weaksauce pr claims and dgb being scum who claimed full rolestopper after noticing the amount of weak claims are exclusive

I never claimed my shots were limited.

You never claimed they weren't though. I'm curious why vax/whoever thought you were one-shot but there must have been SOME reason you gave them

[Gamma Emerald]

fuckin took 70 applications of the defibrillator

[Gamma Emerald]

Noraa I think right now you are town

Is this right?

I am town and I'm glad you see it

I think this is one of the areas that you could improve in. Your self-awareness is non-existent practically
why do you think you're obvtown?

[Gamma Emerald]

The fact that Norra is so worried about my opinion when we are eliming Glitch just pings me more.

I thought it was a very good way to shade me bc there was no literal way to answer that question?

plus I didn't even know there was a guilty on glitch at that point in time like ... uh wtf?

Scum!me would know glitch is dying right? Why would I panic then?

Dang I just realized ur logic is deeply flawed.

SR NPOM

P sure you wouldn’t read scum PT

[Gamma Emerald]

PFFT.

If you really wanna know why its being withheld, its bc my main reason is that Gamma bullied Jacko >:(
In a way this feels biased bc I ADORE Jacko and will fight anyone for him but also .... if I read his ISO right, he was getting low-key bullied by Nero and Gamma added a bit of fuel which feels like more a scum thing to do than a town thing.

Nero flipped green. The best shields for scum are townies.

I did not bully Jacko. I will not deny bullying Pretentious but that is a different person
Also SRing for bullying is among the stupidest things I’ve seen

[Gamma Emerald]

One of which two, and why?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Glitch
yeah dead slot is dead

[Gamma Emerald]

The claims have been posted several times so missing them is just willful ignorance at this point

[Gamma Emerald]

again there are SCUM ROLES that return NO GUN

[Gamma Emerald]

mafia doctor and mafia traitor
you want me to go dropping fact bombs again? I'll freaking do it

[Gamma Emerald]

does gunsmith make sense?

[Gamma Emerald]

>:/

[Gamma Emerald]

No redactions in scumchat for me

[Gamma Emerald]

Why make insano make the kill? ABR was dead man walking in advance.

ABR wanted to make a last ditch effort

[Gamma Emerald]

Me neither

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah a common scum error is claiming weak roles to try and not get pinned on “too much town power”

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I angled hard on that difference between the claimed role name and utility

[Gamma Emerald]

I still wanna know wtf guillotina was doing

And why Nero Cain was killed

Meant it that I wouldn’t have killed Nero myself, but they were flipping out that he could have been vig and I wasn’t sure he wasn’t.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hold up this might be my House Bolton moment (or whatever Mastina was in Mystery at King’s Landing)
I was thinking about how hard it was for dead thread to reconcile me being scum with my play and I realize this might be the gameplay I need to learn to consistently replicate for all games, town and scum

[Gamma Emerald]

It was in that other game