Newbie 2064 - (GG)

[unwnd]

Hi

I've read a little bit, I was thinking monkey was town and what do you know he was

[unwnd]

At a pure base level I was also thinking catboi is town? Gut reasoning though, nothing I could ascribe a full wall to (funny given how he's played so far)

Recent games I've been more forthright and hyperposty, so I'm reverting into my older habits as I feel this game would be best suited for them

[unwnd]

Because catboi is very capable of walls as scum, I was his partner in fortress so I've gotten a chance to see his innerworkings. However? The intent feels different here and even that small post where he was like 'that felt good to type' pinged well for me

[unwnd]

Self catch-up post, this is a format I haven't used in quite some time but will make the exception here as I repped in. I'm going to be increasingly picky just to get into the mindset of others. A lot of my comments are just a grab bag and probably irrelevant. I'll sort through them by the end and give it coherence.

Spoiler: Part 1

I can (mostly) ignore Raab/Jackson given their deaths. I'm sure Raab will become more relevant based on him being the D1 elimination however.

P1
#12 - Navigator 'Not a lot to go on' I mean that's evidently true regardless? Not sure what the point was pointing it out.
#15 - Yes Micc I was pretty much at the same conclusion even if you're not here lol
#23 - Ninja this isn't a terrible thought. I also felt his post was ham-fisted here.
#24 - Dum no need to apologize here.

P2
#32 - Orctin what was this comment supposed to initiate? If the tepidness of the room is bothering you, why not investigate? Idle commenting.
#35 - Is an excellent post from Micc and I'd pretty much be voting Orctin here as well.
#36 - This is such a snap reaction from Salsa. It's not anything I don't believe is outside her own range however so just leaving this here as a footnote.
#38 - This is..an interesting response. It's verbosely written, but could've been summarized as 'you're reading me wrong and i'm upset about it'. If Orctin wanted to get his thoughts out, that's fine. Reasonable even. It's just that I don't know if it required such delicacy. Not liking Orctin here at all.
#39
#40 - This is strangely similar in timing to Orctin's #38 but I don't think I read it the same. I think if Orctin/Navigator were both scum here that they wouldn't want to be associating so closely, and navigator's response to everything seems more compliant instead of..brought on.
#42 - Am I replacing Micc? Nodding along to most of his stuff, though uh the whole 'good to see Ninja saw this was bad' when you're voting the person he disagrees with is slightly bothersome.
#43/44 - Yeah it seems that Ninja is going forward on this. The initiative at the surface is decent. I'm typically more..biased towards newbies who prefer calls to action. I find newbie scum tend to be more awkward (or even willing to suck up) to the SEs when they're scum.
#46 - I don't consider the votes to be a bandwagon, personally. I see people just voting for the sake of voting. I don't see the sudden alarms going off in Dum's head.

P3
#47 - Ah yeah what's the point of this? You were complaining/concerned about the situation and then make a pretty empty vote. Don't like.
#52 - Very striking from navigator here. Calling out the hyprocrisy of Dum's post is really good stuff. Town. I'd probably be voting Dum here while keeping Orctin on the side.
#53 - Ah Salsa saw it as well! Heh
#57 - Being cautious about their own concerns just solidifies that good feeling. I was initially bothered by Navigator being a bit shy, but it seems that their posts to me up until this point feel more meticulous. Funnily fitting for someone with a Naoto avatar I think that Navigator was just afraid earlier, thinking about it.
#64 - Orctin I don't know what to do with you. This is just busywork. A conglomerate of thoughts. Yet, I want to know what you would get out of them? At this point I'm wishing I came in sooner given he can probably just ignore this.
The last few posts are Jackson posts. Jackson was the NK but I'm not gonna infer any bigger reasoning as to why. I'm mostly just breezing past it just like Raab.

P4
#62 - Salsa claiming she's scum is too on-the-nose lol. I don't remember if she was entirely like that in our newbie when she was scum.
Not a very interesting page. I'm pretty much still at Navigator being town so I might start skimming their posts more often.

P5
#103 - I don't like this. It comes too soon. The delivery is there but it just reads as oddly extravagent. So much that you really shouldn't see posts like this. The bolding of HEY MICC IS E-1 DONT HAMMER feels tacked on. Who replaced Dum? Super? Noted.
#113 - This trend of doing something and then relenting after the slightest response needs to stop. Let your words lie. Let others form a conclusion from it.
#123 - So do it? Put your vote there. Maybe I'm just the one who is wrong here and being super critical towards this behavior. I just constantly read your posts Orctin and think 'what is this going to lead to?'

P6
A lot of dead townie or slot I replaced into. Nothing to say.
#156 - Oh why did Salsa replace?
#169 - Funny how you put Cabd as town, he's machiavellian at heart.

P7
#177 - This is an alright post. I'm still sitting on Null with Salsa and I think this catch-up is something that anyone could make.

The squabble between Jackson and James is not too interesting to me. Jackson seems to be frustrated with James not acknolwedging his vote, but I'm not sure why James needs to care anyways as either alignment.

Stopping here for now, I know it's incomplete and I still have about 20ish pages to read, but hopefully people will look through it and have questions for me regardless lol

[unwnd]

Votecount 2-2

With 7 players alive, it will take 4 votes to eliminate.

Catboi(1): NinjaStore
NinjaStore (1): JamesThenames
Orctin (2): humaneatingmonkey, catboi
Dum (1): orctin


Not Voting (2): navigatorv, Dum

The deadline for day two is set at (expired on 2021-06-07 16:54:38)

Replacing DUm......

Orctin voting Dum who I was also pinging as scummy (who is Super). Meanwhile my blank tr (meaning I literally tabbed into the game, saw one or two of his posts and said 'yup that's probably town') is voting with me on Orctin. Catboi, what do you think of Super right now and do you think that Dum (Super)/Orctin could be two mates who are caught in a bad situation? That would be a great explanation but likely not the one that is real

[unwnd]

Orctin voting Dum who I was also pinging as scummy (who is Super). Meanwhile my blank tr (meaning I literally tabbed into the game, saw one or two of his posts and said 'yup that's probably town') is voting with me on Orctin. Catboi, what do you think of Super right now and do you think that Dum (Super)/Orctin could be two mates who are caught in a bad situation? That would be a great explanation but likely not the one that is real

I don't think page 5 ever happens if Dum and orctin are teamed? Granted I've been fooled before by overestimating scum teams that made wildly bad plays, but it doesn't

feel

like that would be a thing teammates would do, and in general, that wild, off the wall ridiculous type of play coming from a newbie is almost always town.

Procrastinating on my catch-up (it will still happen) but I'm pretty much at one of them being scum

I haven't gotten to Super yet but I'm pretty comfortable with my vote lol

[unwnd]

Votecount 2-2

With 7 players alive, it will take 4 votes to eliminate.

Catboi(1): NinjaStore
NinjaStore (1): JamesThenames
Orctin (2): humaneatingmonkey, catboi
Dum (1): orctin


Not Voting (2): navigatorv, Dum

The deadline for day two is set at (expired on 2021-06-07 16:54:38)

Replacing DUm......

Orctin voting Dum who I was also pinging as scummy (who is Super). Meanwhile my blank tr (meaning I literally tabbed into the game, saw one or two of his posts and said 'yup that's probably town') is voting with me on Orctin. Catboi, what do you think of Super right now and do you think that Dum (Super)/Orctin could be two mates who are caught in a bad situation? That would be a great explanation but likely not the one that is real

wait what exactly does this explain? the way Orc used Dum's absence as a way to push on someone without actually pushing on somebody

I'm not there yet! Just let me do my own thing and I promise good things will happen

[unwnd]

Alright let's get back to this before I forget. I initially stopped because I realized that I was starting to skim way more. This slightly plays into wanting to revert back to my old ways, because my recent games I've just been exhausting myself. Leadfoot for no good reason. It's not a race and I want any newbie who is reading this small detour in my process to understand that. Pace yourself and let the thread progress naturally instead of trying to force an outcome.

Spoiler: Part 2

P8 - P11

I just realized my last comment was basically summation of P8. James had a catch-up post there but it was pretty standard. All of these pages can be condensed into one because they follow the same progression. It tips off with Jackson accusing James of ignoring their vote and then just boils over. There's a lot of little ingredients but I can't say that I see what it's supposed to come to. Navigator just continues to be really townie and it just looks like any potential scum would either be caught in all this or not want anything to do with it.

#201 - Alright so this is just a bit strange to me. James seemed more apologetic to the offense in the past page and has come around to voting them; loaded questions. Side note: There has been a lot of 1v1ing in this game for a newbie it's actually a bit entertaining.
#216 - To be so sure of yourself gives me pause. I think calling the duo like that is very bold, but it all seems too present. Meaning, your point feels like it somehow was made even though not much has changed. You were scumreading the two and then basically said 'well this just proves it!' Personally I don't feel it's proved.
#272 - Back to Micc? Didn't you already try this Ninja? Correct me if I'm wrong.

The bickering carries on regardless. It's a decently big event. The main factors being Monkey (Me)/Jackson/James and maybe a bit of Navigator. The fact of the matter here is that Jackson is dead while James is still alive. James if you're reading this, how have you felt about being wrong about Jackson there?

P12 - P14
#284 -I agree with you James at a fundamental level even if Monkey (my slot) did not. I've been worried about Dum for a good while.

Finding myself skimming despite taking a break. Going to see through to rest of this however as a self-imposed challenge.

#310 - So James -- If I'm reading this right you thought it was Dum/Jackson. I'm not going to trudge further about this but I just feel like in some areas you're trying to pair the two in ostentatious ways. Maybe that's a bit wounding given where we're at but I call it as I see it. I admit-- I like your decisiveness but I think it more comes from what you've been given.
#321 - Ninja seems very lost to me. He's declared a lot of his own reasoning being differences in the last time he played and whatnot but I don't know if it's puppy-like. Everytime I see his posts I just think to myself that his opinions are reaching expiration date or he hasn't bothered to check the label.
#326 - Orctin please stop being so scummy this is going to turn into a tunnel at this rate. I can't see where you went A to B and instead of you just decided to talk about A B C D E F G all in order like jotting of a to-do list. None of it feels earned or genuine!

--

So I'm reading along and I'm just seeing a lot of the same players. James, Monkey, Jackson. Johnny came and repped in so his posts trying to catch-up are fine. I think right now one or two things is happening

1) Aforementioned, but scum are in a situation they must commit to
2) Scum wants absolutely nothing to do with anything going on and are ducking their heads

Right now I favor 2) but this could end being a 1) instance. I favor 2) merely because Jackson has flipped and I know I'm town. With 1), that would leave James in a forced situation but right I don't want to entertain it. I only bring this up because it felt like the most relevant thing out of my catch-up. If I follow through on the idea of 2) I would place Ninja/Dum/Orctin in the pile. I don't want to put this into a black or white situation where 1) or 2) must absolutely be what is happening, but it helps me stay focused and goal-oriented. That's all.

Stopping here again. I urge the people I've talked about to look at these posts because while they are for me, I break through my own catch-up to ask things and inquire about topics that I'd like to see others inquire about.

[unwnd]

Oh Jackson isn't dead. That's Johnny lol

I've been literally skipping Jackson thinking he wasn't alive, woops. I guess that makes your point about Dum/Jackson(?) all the more relevant then? You believe they're both still scum together? Re: Mix of 1 and 2, I think it's possible but trying to overwhelm myself and everyone else trying to thread all these answers without a single redflip is dangerous territory. I believe in prioritizing reads and this is basically my way of doing so.

[unwnd]

They* weren't alive, when referring to Jackson

[unwnd]

Seems like mostly everyone agrees that Orctin is scum

That's fine with me given it's ego at this rate

[unwnd]

I urge the people I've talked about to look at these posts because while they are for me, I break through my own catch-up to ask things and inquire about topics that I'd like to see others inquire about.

Spoiler tagging posts is a surefire way to get me to skip them and the way you've formatted them makes it incredibly hard to read. What are you even doing? You know how to format a post better than this. At least include the links.

I'm lazy though. Are they really that hard to read? I write them up in a separate notepad and then just post them when I'm done. That's why you never see me direct linking lol

[unwnd]

The whole game i had said i felt JV was town - So stick that in your "zero town reading pipe" and smoke it. Really getting irritating when people take what i say and twist it around cause they are so one dimensional in their thinking

How bout you read all of what i say and not just take 1 sentence as the whole meaning - in that post i was looking at pairs -

I had started directly above that line that i could see a HEM/James pair and why - or are you just blind to reading what you want to to help your arguments?

I then looked at it from just a James position - and yes i could see him "mostly" as town - But just because i think someone might be town - doesn't make it so - and if it's not so then who would he pair with. I was simply noting i didn't have a good idea of who would be a good pair with him, if he was scum and Monkey was town. As i know i'm not scum i didn't put much weight into it - but it doesn't mean i just give him a pass - i don't give anyone a pass - It's part of the game cause the best scum player will be the most town looking player out there. I refuse to be one dimensional and not suspect everyone of playing scum well

VOTE: catboi

If the whole game is against you at this rate, where are you narrowing your suspects? I understand your vote is one thing, but if you're just town and this is a vs. everyone situation, there has to be opportunistic scum.

[unwnd]

I assume you're literally talking about me then?

[unwnd]

Actually that needs further clarification-- What is the point of Me/Catboi if we're scum here both voting you. That's going to look dreadful if you flip green. I know myself and I know catboi to some degree and I can safely say if

were

scum in this situation we would not be trying to get you killed. We'd just let you fall over and die, and then act shocked about it. I don't mean that as disrespect either, but why do you feel as if you've found it us? What about James? ..Super?

[unwnd]

Getting back into this later today.

[unwnd]

I'd like to hear from Orctin a bit more before we just probably lim him. Other fleeting concerns would be with Ninja. I still haven't completed my own thread journey, but I have seen some curious things along the way. I feel as if I'm mostly at a place I'd be comfortable with, but hey.

[unwnd]

For one, unwnd's opening feels very LAMIST to me.

Guilty as charged. It's a newbie game so I'll do a bit of grandstanding here: I think LAMIST is a stupid term and needs to be abolished. Town wants to be town. Most of them love doing so and it is expressed through their thoughts. Sure, scum can pick up the playbook and I see where the term can come into play, but is used so loosely and without careful analysis that just turns into something better off said. I think by shutting down that expression you are just causing scum to relent either way. So even if this scenario existed where I was scum LAMISTing, I'm just gonna look at that and go 'ok, should I guess I should just revert course' and then the application is completely broken. I believe in being slightly subtle but not ashamed of your own thoughts.

[unwnd]

Syntax error in the fourth line there, meant to say something better off

not

said.

[unwnd]

UNVOTE:

No hammer yet please

[unwnd]

UNVOTE:

No hammer yet please

Who would hammer? It would be a day 3 policy hammer if they had no explanation or declared no intent. Do you think Orc would self hammer?

It's mostly for myself regardless

[unwnd]

This game might be cursed

[unwnd]

UNVOTE:

No hammer yet please

Who would hammer? It would be a day 3 policy hammer if they had no explanation or declared no intent. Do you think Orc would self hammer?

It's mostly for myself regardless

what do you mean it's mostly for yourself? o_O

I want more time to do things even though I'm not doing them

It's hard ok?

[unwnd]

I'd want to hear what you think you're seeing, because despite your own hesitance I still have a lingering sr on Dum who was Super's slot, which I believe you shut down for unknown reasons

[unwnd]

I'd want to hear what you think you're seeing, because despite your own hesitance I still have a lingering sr on Dum who was Super's slot, which I believe you shut down for unknown reasons

My primary reason was that the ludicrous play on page 5 from Dum screams newbie town trying to make a big play, and makes the slot unlikely to be partnered with orctin because of what happened. I also think super is more capable as scum and wouldn't choose to fritter so uselessly like she's doing now - her reluctance to push anyone as a scumread is more likely caused by townie paralytic indecision than unwillingness to fake a case on anyone. Maybe I'm overestimating her to my own detriment but that's how I feel.

As for you, well, my perspective is biased from having been on your team but a lot of your catchup felt like writing words for the sake of words wore than anything, aside from the orctin read it didn't feel solid. That's a vague answer because the read right now is just impressionistic. I townread other players more than your slot, is the thing.

Your concerns are valid, a lot of it was just writing for the sake of words. However? I wanted to do it because I have that liberty even though I'm well, not really doing it right now. I'm in this strange position where I want follow through on it and the other is just like 'meh, I scumread orctin and I think he has given up' so it's stopping me

[unwnd]

If Orctin is just set on letting himself die as town I'll feel stupid about it, but the way he's just decided to keep his mouth shut really makes me think this is right. You can consider the prospect of me bussing another time.

[unwnd]

If Orctin is just set on letting himself die as town I'll feel stupid about it, but the way he's just decided to keep his mouth shut really makes me think this is right. You can consider the prospect of me bussing another time.

You seem wise, your take on Super potentially pushing the Orctin wagon then distancing from 751?

Super seems to bring her own energy, it's something I've noted while remaining present. Orctin/Super team at this rate would be two (aligned) people with different goals. Would Super want to save Orctin here by giving discretion and slightly shading you? It's possible. Do I think that's the reason Orctin/Super must make sense? Unlikely. I think Super as scum just does what would be second nature to Super as town. I can't read her flip-flopping decisively because I get that's just who she is as a person.

[unwnd]

If I'm on that topic I'm still briefly skimming. I think I'm killing the catch-up and just moving forward. That being said however, you and Super seem to know each other catboi. I noted you being snippy with her in regards to just haphazardly throwing out TRs without SRs, so what do you think of my own take?

[unwnd]

I am honestly fine with this being an easy game if that's just what it is

[unwnd]

I've noted pairings for yall, so when i flip town i suggest you look harder at those pairs cause next day you cant afford to miss eliminate

From what I gather your argument is this--

My slot(?) comes in and townreads Catboi, which is disingenuous. This is a setup on my part to seemingly erase prior suspicion you had. OK. I looked back at your own posts towards JV and it never goes beyond a guesstimate of behavior. There's just not a lot of bite to it. This is the type of shit I was scumreading you for earlier. If you were just indignant town who feels the game is slipping into a state that can't recover, why are you letting it? I'm pretty sure catboi doesn't entirely trust me and that Super would probably flop if you made something convincing enough. Pairing us two together in that sense means nothing if we're still mostly unscathed. It all just seems so..passionless, and I don't know how else to describe it.

[unwnd]

I'd want to hear what you think you're seeing, because despite your own hesitance I still have a lingering sr on Dum who was Super's slot, which I believe you shut down for unknown reasons

okay, what's your read on me? Dum Dum is gone now, up up into the heavens - Super is here and would love for you to talk to her because then you'd know she is town and your fears will be gone! huzzah!

but no seriously, why even bring this up? Catboi has some pretty strong meta on me and out of anyone here can read me the best, it's interesting that you're trying to instill fear into him

I may have my own reservations about things and to play diplomatic around the situation is more favorable to me. Suffice to say that I'm aware of catboi's own competency and my read on him for now is one of comfort instead of resolution. Catboi seems to be testifying for you regardless and I'm pretty bad at reading player behavior like yourself. I just get sucked into the emotion and lose focus lol

[unwnd]

Yeah alright whatever

VOTE: Orctin

[unwnd]

I don't see any mechanical inconsistentcies with James' claim

[unwnd]

Are you saying Zyla isn't mech cleared here James?

[unwnd]

This was last night right?

[unwnd]

I would've preferred an easier game but generally speaking Navigator was my strongest TR and nothing about Noraa's game so far makes me doubt that.

[unwnd]

You're not a JK super? I don't think Zyla as the JK would just go along with what James said, or wouldn't point out the mech contradiction. If I'm a JK and someone claims I didn't go anywhere (and I was the one who JKed them so I know it's not true) I would want to clarify. Zyla didn't do that though, she just accepted it at face value and nothing else.

[unwnd]

I'm not, so someone is being hush for no reason when I'd prefer clarity

[unwnd]

Will get back into this a bit later. I don't wanna give half-hearted thoughts. I think I understand what's going on to some degree regardless.

[unwnd]

I'm not opposed to being the mislim as I don't really have the drive to solve.

[unwnd]

You either give me time to want to play or you vote me

I'm not going to commit to thoughts that I am uncertain about

[unwnd]

Be prepared for tomorrow because the game is not over if you vote me lol

[unwnd]

Be prepared for tomorrow because the game is not over if you vote me lol

Newpage reminder

[unwnd]

I'm just being honest with you, feel free to disapprove

I'm not anyone's lapdog

[unwnd]

Don't care lol

[unwnd]

I'm not gonna self-vote or anything ridiculous like that. One of you who is scum wants it more than me and that's fairly evident

I did what I had to even if Orctin's death wasn't exactly some grand revelation, a lot of people wanted him and I helped secure that. Am I going to take full credit? Of course not, but I am saying that I'm pretty sure town wins purely by the fact we have two undead PRs. There isn't much else for me to do here and I trust James/Zyla to figure it out

[unwnd]

This is my guess

VOTE: Super

[unwnd]

Express intent for what?

[unwnd]

Was super being voted? I didn't realize

[unwnd]

Was super being voted? I didn't realize

Sorry I meant for Orc my bad.

Did I hammer him? I think I eventually just threw my hands up and resolved that was all he was going to do. The only thing that makes me slightly hesitate on my Super vote is that I'm pretty sure Orctin wasn't being coached, and Super has been very active. She seems like someone who would try and help Orctin there (outside of the necessity to bus), which to me was the very distinct option there. I don't want to entirely make my premise on an angle however because 1) Noraa is a very sensitive person to being scumread 2) There isn't indicating timezone differential

[unwnd]

I had a more prominent scumread on her slot that was only slightly alleviated by catboi. I haven't read a good chunk of your posts but I'm not finding her opinions to be very decisive. She keeps me at arm's length but won't commit to a vote. I want to see what this does.

[unwnd]

You have two prominent hyperposters going back and forth at the speed of 80mph

Why would I want to get involved, that's a wreck waiting to happen lol

[unwnd]

Take it or leave it, you're the one voting me

[unwnd]

I think ur scum.

[unwnd]

People can give up as town Zyla

[unwnd]

In a situation where scum is down a single member what do you think is more likely

1) I, as a single member am pretty much lowballing and playing at a level which makes the town unsatisfied with me, basically condemning my slot
2) One of Super/Noraa are trying to position themselves for the next day because they know that if they don't then the game is over

I'll let you ponder that, or perhaps Super will hammer

Who knows! GL

[unwnd]

I wasn't gonna put my full effort into this regardless

[unwnd]

I for one was holding out hope that unwnd could pull it off when Super decided the argument was so utterly convincing that hammering herself was the only path forward to break the 2-2 tie.

It wasn't the game for tryhard scum unwnd

GG