Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Almost50]

but gamma didn't write blurbs for our role PMs lol

Can anyone else confirm this?

You tell me. Does your PM give you details or not?

[BuJaber]

A50 read post before yours

[acryon]

- pedit acryon so you think he is lying about his claim?

Yes, or he is a scum follower and screwed up.

[Almost50]

How do you know there's only 3 scum?

What is the likelihood of a third party?

How does 2 NKs = conclusively no vig?

Ummm... it's the standard for a 13 players game??

Not sure, but if there is it's likely a Survivour

Because the Hider died while hiding behind the other NK'd slot?

[Almost50]

A50 read post before yours

My bad. I respond to posts before I read the subsequent ones.

[Mathdino]

1051 just sucks. Trying to guilt the town into voting me saying he's "done" if it doesnt go through. Interestingly he doesn't seem so interested in me now.

1188 is total speculation (and false, FWIW), yet being used as a reason for why I'm scum.

And then I've made quite clear my thoughts on this recent gambit. I think it was an attempt to clear out someone that would've been difficult to lynch, and then an easy "misunderstanding" tomorrow after a green flip.

You also gladiated the 2 town players working on writing a case for you, so forgive me if I assume that your reads this game have been almost entirely self-centred.

People can have bad reasons for thinking you're scum and not be scum.

How do you know there's only 3 scum?

What is the likelihood of a third party?

How does 2 NKs = conclusively no vig?

the worst, the way you phrased things seems to imply you can confirm some people as town but some people you won't know if they're town or scum. Is that accurate?
Like a Neapolitan-esque role, although obviously not actually Neapolitan.

That's not a bad way to put it. My flip will explain the bits I'm not expressly saying if it comes to that

1. Balance.
2. Unlikely.
3. The Hider died. Hider dies if he hides behind someone nightkilled or if he hides behind scum. You can't shoot hider.
4. So can you tell beforehand whether someone can be confirmed as town?
Like if you don't confirm acryon as town, does that make him for sure scum?
Cuz that would make things pretty easy for us.

Lol .. man do you know how difficult it is for me to scumread you? I wanted to catch you in the lie but I still can't because of all the shit you did all game.

I really wish your read on acryon would align with mine it'd make me very confident in it.

1. Me fucking up isn't alignment indicative. I remembered a key thing about my role, that Gamma didn't word the role PM in a way that solves certain situations, like what happens if vig and mafia NK the same guy, a topic that came up in my recent game. Sometimes I forget elements of my role PM when I feel like I've gotten the gist.
In this case my role PM is basically useless. You take a bullet for someone. But can you take two? Who knows? Can you be doc'd? Also unclear!

2. I mean it's a good thing we can just confirm acryon's alignment tonight.

[acryon]

1051 just sucks. Trying to guilt the town into voting me saying he's "done" if it doesnt go through. Interestingly he doesn't seem so interested in me now.

1188 is total speculation (and false, FWIW), yet being used as a reason for why I'm scum.

And then I've made quite clear my thoughts on this recent gambit. I think it was an attempt to clear out someone that would've been difficult to lynch, and then an easy "misunderstanding" tomorrow after a green flip.

You also gladiated the 2 town players working on writing a case for you, so forgive me if I assume that your reads this game have been almost entirely self-centred.

People can have bad reasons for thinking you're scum and not be scum.

Very true and fair enough. But I would say the difference, whether you agree or not, is the actual reasons he put forth for me and the nature in which he tried to convince people. And I hate it when my play is self-centered, but this game has kind of forced it to be I feel like. I am never lynchbait, but this game people jumped on me and used poor reasons to do so. I'm used to calling people out for bad reasons for voting other people, not me.

[the worst]

4. So can you tell beforehand whether someone can be confirmed as town?

Unfortunately not. :/

[Mathdino]

Very true and fair enough. But I would say the difference, whether you agree or not, is the actual reasons he put forth for me and the nature in which he tried to convince people. And I hate it when my play is self-centered, but

this game has kind of forced it to be

I feel like. I am never lynchbait, but this game people jumped on me and used poor reasons to do so.

I'm used to calling people out for bad reasons for voting other people, not me.

holy shit we got a future radiantcowbells in the making right here

you skimmed a winter wonderland ISO, right?

bujaber was a cop in that game and got vigged, he was pretty widely scumread

now i replaced into late game so i didn't actually read like any of his posts

wanna go check and see if he is capable of shit reasoning/pushes as town (shit in the same way)

[the worst]

Okay being shut down by Math and A50 actually agreeing on something means those questions were just bad.

Never mind

[acryon]

Very true and fair enough. But I would say the difference, whether you agree or not, is the actual reasons he put forth for me and the nature in which he tried to convince people. And I hate it when my play is self-centered, but

this game has kind of forced it to be

I feel like. I am never lynchbait, but this game people jumped on me and used poor reasons to do so.

I'm used to calling people out for bad reasons for voting other people, not me.

holy shit we got a future radiantcowbells in the making right here

you skimmed a winter wonderland ISO, right?

bujaber was a cop in that game and got vigged, he was pretty widely scumread

now i replaced into late game so i didn't actually read like any of his posts

wanna go check and see if he is capable of shit reasoning/pushes as town (shit in the same way)

Don't compare me to RC!

Also I just played a game with BuJ where he was town a couple months ago. Looking back at it, he played the game was fairly similar to this one I feel like, although maybe a bit less bloodthirsty, and he ended up getting lynched day 1. But yes some of his reasons were bad hence the day 1 lynch. I would also not be surprised if he is town here. He's my weakest scumread for sure.

[BuJaber]

Acryon I asked you because I find it weird that a townie would be unwilling to give some the benefit of the doubt that they messed up their role when you yourself was given the benefit of the doubt that you messed up your role.

A50

Something to ponder on:

Spoiler:

We are 8 vs 3 now.
mislynch + NK = 6 vs 3
scum lynch + NK = 5 vs 2
mislynch + NK = 3 vs 2
And we know there is no Vig, so I would definitely fake a guilty on someone of I was Mafia here in this situation. A 1 for 1 isn't such a bad gamble for Scum right now, especially with the town so divided.

^That's the motive^

HOWEVER, let's consider Kthxbye is town who misunderstood his result and scum are taking advantage of it. It would be even more plausible for them to push BOTH wagons (i.e. split themselves between them) so as to get one lynched and be semi-guaranteed the other will follow.

In this case we are 8 vs 3
mislynch + NK = 6 vs 3
mislynch + NK = 4 vs 3
So that is LyLo already.

UNVOTE:

Who would be scum in this you and kthx are both town scenario?

[acryon]

Acryon I asked you because I find it weird that a townie would be unwilling to give some the benefit of the doubt that they messed up their role when you yourself was given the benefit of the doubt that you messed up your role.

Well to be fair I was scumreading and voting him before he did any of this, hence why he is getting no benefit of the doubt. I would also expect none from people voting me prior to the claim. If he were a scumread this would probably keep me from placing a new vote on him if I hadnt voted, but it's not enough for me to remove my vote.

[Mathdino]

kthx/a50 both being town imo results in a clear scumteam of something like

Not_Mafia/Marangal/Beefster with IB and/or Carrot as backup options

you can probably rule out some pairings here to get a better idea but yeah

[BuJaber]

MD please don't answer questions I address to others.

If I wanted you I'd have asked. I'm very open about getting opinions from my townreads.

[Mathdino]

kk
a50's likely going to answer me so it's not like he can really sheep me on that
my reads work from my POV

hey can you hit me up with a scumgame or two

[Carrot and Stick]

The good news: Assembler hasn't siteflaked.
The bad news: still haven't set up a line of communication. (The mod's discord was a 24 hour one which expired or something like that and in spite of the mod SAYING he'd make a more permanent one he hasn't yet.)

In the mean time:

Mathdino will agree with me

Yeah well Mathdino is a moron.

Rather he is technically smart in that he knows not to make horrendous decisions like mislynching me, but he applies that same mindset universally--including to players that are scum. He doesn't have a good way of differentiating between "a horrendous decision which is a mislynch" and "what actually needs to be done because it's a scum lynch".

So, what happens if: We lynch acryon and he flips Town? We lynch mom and she flips Town? We lynch me and I flip Town?
How do your reads change in each case. (I think the best readable answer would be to post 3 read lists, but I will accept a 3-lones explanation for each case of the 3 as well). Thank you.

Nothing changes because reads were formed independently from one another. If acryon for some ungodly reason flipped town, you'd be scum; Momrangal would be scum; the new addition would be Not_Mafia.
If Momrangal somehow flipped town, you'd be scum; acryon would be scum; the new addition would be Not_Mafia.
If you somehow flipped town, acryon would be scum; Momrangal would be scum; the new addition would be Not_Mafia.

[Mathdino]

Yeah well Mathdino is a moron.

Rather he is technically smart in that he knows not to make horrendous decisions like mislynching me, but he applies that same mindset universally--including to players that are scum. He doesn't have a good way of differentiating between "a horrendous decision which is a mislynch" and "what actually needs to be done because it's a scum lynch".

You know when you're about to leave a party and then you don't, then you get trapped in an incredibly long-winded and pointless conversation with another guest and spend the whole time wishing you'd just left when you had the chance. This is that moment.

[BuJaber]

kk
a50's likely going to answer me so it's not like he can really sheep me on that
my reads work from my POV

hey can you hit me up with a scumgame or two

Bear in mind I haven't played that many games yet on here.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73845

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=74725

Not sure how helpful they'll be. First is my first game and a newbie game and I replaced in to find my partner widely scumread.

2nd is not even close to normal setup wise. Literally got killed by my own scumpartner for his personal wincon. Turncoat something role.

[BuJaber]

First game here .. not first game ever

[Not_Mafia]

It was a joke mastin, he just finished playing a game I modded where there was a scum messenger that looked like an amnesiac cop

[BuJaber]

Oh wait I have a recently finished mafia game. Hang on

[BuJaber]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74864

[Kthxbye]

Sigh...I can't believe I have to make this post.

First of all, just because A50 didn't target anyone (a huge part of his bullshit defense) doesn't mean I don't get a result from my PR.
From wiki: "The Follower is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn what form of action they took that Night (investigation, protection, killing, etc), but not who they targeted." Nowhere in that definition does it state that the target of my follow must target someone in order for me to learn the form of night action.
From my PM: Without quoting and getting MOD KILLED, my role PM specifically states that I follow a target and learn what form of ability they used. It DOES NOT say I follow a target to another target and see what form of ability they used on that target or any other similar wording.

This is fucking simple people, if A50 used a PR, target or no, I would have learned what form of ability it was. This fucking includes abilities that don't target other players.

Secondly, a the NO RESULT defense is thin as fuck and keeps being thrown around and now seemingly validated somehow! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU ALL?! It's super simple here. We have to wait on the MOD to confirm what he meant by no result. I've been out the game awhile but last I played, a NO RESULT from a night action meant you were RB'ed or messed with somehow OR the target didn't do anything that your PR investigated. I may have pulled the trigger a little early (as in I could have asked the MOD for clarification first), but getting NO RESULT on a player who claims they used a PR action last night screams lies.

Thirdly, the only part where I screwed up was suggesting he either lied about taking an action (scum) or did the NK. The NK part as I'm reading the wiki does in fact show up. So no, A50 did not make the NK. THIS DOESN'T DISCREDIT THE RESULT OF MY FOLLOW!!!!

Last thing I'll leave you with is this. ISO A50 after he realizes I had a result on him. He uses ALL of these and more to try and get out of being lynched and talks about no other reads other than my alignment. This is scum flailing 101 and you people are "so smart" you're passing right over it.


Once the MOD confirms what the NO RESULT he gave me means, and I very much expect it means my target did not take an action or I was RB'ed and NOT that the target didn't target someone else, A50 gets lynched and I'm confirmed town. Any other plan scum or badtown come up with that does not follow this is just dumb as fuck. Obviously, I'm only confirmed town after A50 flips scum. I want you all to realize how bad it will be for scum if we lynch scum!A50 today. First, we hit scum on D2 AND you get to confirm a town role with claimed town protection on the table.

[BuJaber]

Mastina - you used up your rolecop yes? Remind me what happened?