I mean, you've been deflecting and/or ignoring my questions about your ruru read since early day 1, when you were townreading *me*, so sure, that explanation makes loads of sense.
The discussion between scioness and ofrzh *did* lead to some walls, before you even said they should have a 1v1. In fact some of the walls were on page 52, the very page that nsg referenced not wanting to read
Like my point has already been proven and its mind-boggling to me that you think that promoting a 1v1 (likely to produce walls from scioness at the very least) is healthy in a game where a not-insignificant number of people repped out (eth0s) and/or were apathetic because of the density of the game (nsg) and/or refused to read the game upon replacing in (math) and/or never caught up because of it (drixx).
@pinturicchio You know what, I'm gonna spoiler this to show my remorse for even bringing up this line of thought.
Spoiler:
Evaluating night kills get's a little wifomy and circular logic-y. The thinking here goes that there is a pretty good chance that scioness gets lynched off of dead-dino reads, and if dead dino is right about sajj, maybe we just sheep his read of lynching ofrhz after a Sajj scum flip.
On the other hand, Skitter + Ofrhz can have Ofrhz sheep dino and push a Sajj lynch over the protestations of Skitter, and then let Skitter push ruru (dino's choice on a Sajj town flip) in lylo.
I'm okay with moderating that statement to "There are a few scum teams that really benefit from a Dino NK, and Skitter + Ofrhz is one of them.
p.edit @sajj different reasons at different times in the game, I guess? Also, I can't be blamed for walls people write before I ask them battle for my amusement.
In post 1427, Oxy wrote:Also, I can't be blamed for walls people write before I ask them battle for my amusement.
I mean, no, you cant be, but given that that a dialogue between them just before you asked for a 1v1 featured wallposts from both sides, it's reasonable to assume that a 1v1 would also feature wallposts.
Yeah, they don't *have* to sling wallposts back and forth during a 1v1, but given their dynamic just before you asked for one, it does seem likely that a 1v1 *would* feature wallposts, and I'm having trouble believing you don't see that.
And a 1v1 with wallposts is literally the last thing we want in this game given that previous iterations of just that made the game apathetic and were a significant contributing factor for why people were unable or unwilling to catch up.
also, the last thing I want in this game is to lose this game. That means I'm going to try and sort people. All damn game you've been like, "no we shouldn't do this because it's a bad way to sort people" but what alternative do you provide? I thought it was a moderating influence, but in reality your play has just been an impediment to town all game. That's scum behavior.
In post 1430, Oxy wrote:I'm having trouble believing that you think this is a useful conversation for anybody.
You're deliberately promoting a suboptimal gamestate for your own amusement. This is probably the scummiest thing that has happened all game imo, and instead of defending your position (ie explaining why the 1v1 should happen given that it will likely induce apathy), you're calling me scummy for calling you out on your bullshit.
Serious post - I understand what you are talking about skitter but I'm not sure if it isn't just oxy being oxy. that's like no news coming from me though.
In post 1430, Oxy wrote:I'm having trouble believing that you think this is a useful conversation for anybody.
You're deliberately promoting a suboptimal gamestate for your own amusement. This is probably the scummiest thing that has happened all game imo, and instead of defending your position (ie explaining why the 1v1 should happen given that it will likely induce apathy), you're calling me scummy for calling you out on your bullshit.
I'm probably not switching votes this phase.
You are deliberately twisting words and trying to spin events to fit a narrative - any narrative! - that either ends without you being lynched, or without you spewing anyone else.
The lack of reason coming from your slot is the clear scum claim that I expected from you. I think it is very pro-town for me to 1v1 you here. I don't foresee my vote moving, either.
In post 1430, Oxy wrote:I'm having trouble believing that you think this is a useful conversation for anybody.
You're deliberately promoting a suboptimal gamestate for your own amusement. This is probably the scummiest thing that has happened all game imo, and instead of defending your position (ie explaining why the 1v1 should happen given that it will likely induce apathy), you're calling me scummy for calling you out on your bullshit.
I'm probably not switching votes this phase.
Do you actually want to hear the answer to this nonsense?
No, the amusement thing was a joke. I encouraged them to press each other because I wanted to judge an expanded interaction between them, and because I have both of them in my lynch pool and wanted to encourage discussion about why people in my lynch pool would/wouldn't be good lynches.
Also, it's not a given that it will induce apathy. Eth0s was busy. NSG didn't like it, and I apologizing for them walling at one another, NSG. But at the core of this argument is the idea that posts make people not want to play, and that's a great argument for why we shouldn't wall. It's not an argument against having interactions.
If you think posting in a way that discourages town play is scummy, I think you should take a hard look at yourself or Scioness or even myself (oops) before Oxy.
You just went from likely town to likely scum with that one vote.
1. At the time, I thought it was weird how she stopped interacting with me when I still had my vote on her (early D1). She later said something like "this isn't part of my personality to engage you like this" and I was like "okay that's believable..." I still had lingering thoughts in the back of my head (like ruru could have been lying about her personality, but I couldn't substantiate this). I think I was also prompting ruru to give the results of her reaction test, so I did prompt her with whatever I had to go on. Other people were also going back and forth with her, and I didn't really see the need to parrot what they say.
2. Yeah she was a bit scummy, and I think it's usually good to pressure that. The more votes, the merrier imo.
3. I think I said, in the same post where I unvoted, that I wouldn't mind focusing on Drixx (other people had Drixx on their radar for being inactive, not explaining mysterious posts), but my two townreads (skitter and Oxy) at the time were on NSG. I didn't quite get why, so I asked people why. Soon later, NSG popped in with her rant about how difficult this game was to get into or something. skitter unvoted after that. Math showed up afterwards, so a lot was happening then. I'm not sure what you expect me to do in terms of helping town focus there. I later voted Drixx because I thought he was also a bit suspect (but less so than ruru), and that was part of forming a town consensus, no?
This is purely from memory, so if I'm wrong, lmk and I'll go back and look.
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About Mathdino's reads:
You have mis-characterized Mathdino's reads. Mathdino was more confident in Oxy being town than NSG, because he didn't even consider scumteams with Oxy in them, but he did consider scumteams with NSG.
I think it's very convenient how you picked to townread NSG but not Oxy based on Mathdino's reads, and the logic behind how you got there doesn't make sense. I feel like if you want to sheep Mathdino's reads, you have to properly sheep them and not cherrypick which ones you want to sheep. Otherwise... it's not sheeping.
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About ruru scumteams:
From my POV, the ruru push looks fake. Both me and Oxy have been asking for possible ruru scumteams. So if you're going to keep on pushing ruru, you were going to have to keep bringing up possible ruru scumteams. If you kept going down that route, you were going to have to justify that by scumreading someone who also makes sense in a ruru scumteam. I was calling that out pre-emptively for people to see as a possible scumslip.
Like I can kinda already see skitter doing this with Oxy with her whole "Oxy is townish but also could be scum." Does that make sense?
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Yeah I guess I saw enough mudslinging between ruru and skitter D1 to not think it was staged. I asked that question again to see if you had reconsidered. Have you reconsidered the ruru/skitter scumteam?
--
I was working out how to ask you about that. I couldn't outright and say "are you fishing for PRs?" cuz you'd obviously say no, right...? I mean, this point is moot anyway because of the discussion skitter and I had.
Mathdino reads - I have just explained you why Mathdino's read on NSG isn't really in the same category as Mathdino's read on anybod else in this game. The logic makes sense, you just have to stop looking at it like all of his reads are in the same category becuase they are not.
I feel like if you want to sheep Mathdino's reads, you have to properly sheep them and not cherrypick which ones you want to sheep. Otherwise... it's not sheeping.
I don't think I have ever said I'm sheeping Dino. Like from my pov his nsg read is higher tier than any read he made in game. I have explained my townread on NSG more in depth in response to ruru, if you didn't see it lmk and I will quote. So yeah, I agree with you that I'm not blindly sheeping Math.
Ruru scumteams - Yeah it does make sense what you are saying but I look at it differently. To get a scum team based on D1 interaction (when half of the game was only playing) you would need to know how said scumteam decided to approach their interaction.
It is still possible that Skitter said to Ruru: vote drixx and I will fast unvote and will bargin about it a little; in the scum PT. It's most likely unlikely but is not impossible. There is no proof that would make me cross it out.
So a possible scum team of ruru/skitter is still possible, I won't disregard it untill one of them flips green. I will probably lean more or less possible but that's about it.
I was working out how to ask you about that. I couldn't outright and say "are you fishing for PRs?" cuz you'd obviously say no, right...? I mean, this point is moot anyway because of the discussion skitter and I had.
I mean you could have said that you don't know who was more likely but you didn't think it would be Math becuase A, B, C.
I asked you becuase in your opening post you have called Mathdino a leader but then you said you were surprised he got killed.
If you think posting in a way that discourages town play is scummy, I think you should take a hard look at yourself or Scioness or even myself (oops) before Oxy.
You just went from likely town to likely scum with that one vote.
What do you even mean with that. Could you explain?
@sajj - annoying posting styles include wall posting, not letting unproductive threads of conversation die —> leading to more wall posting, talking about the same shit over and over again without making any headway
Both of which all three of us are guilty of to one extent or another but Oxy? Not really imo
No, I'm not going to make a wall. If you would like to read over this day again and ask me about something I've said about Skitter, or something like that, I'd be happy to answer. I've been pretty clear about why I believe Skitter is scum.
In post 1410, ruru wrote:
I mean Mathdino, who seems to know some things about mechanics, and mentioned no-lynching, was right there reading the thread at the time (also recommending not to hammer Drixx until deadline) and you could have talked it over with him, right?
How is it a "distraction" if you actually think I'm scum? How is it worse for other people to have extra time to evaluate a case that you already decided to post, even if you're going to be AFK?
whoop another implied misrep
I mean,
you voted on me with what looked like a serious vote
as the deadline was approaching and posted a wall calling me scummy. It's not like I'm misrepresenting the situation.
Yeah I did that and I see you are agreeing with my point and you are misrepresenting it. I have already said why.
Bolded seems super off and idk why. I will think about it.
I don't remember posts where you were townreading her either though (since 762 where she was null) so I'm curious what prompted you to townread her if not Mathdino flipping.
There were no post on it yeah. I have reread her during the night.
I think my meaning was clear. Why are you so upset about it? Is it a problem that I'm isoing you?
Don't be ridiculous.
Am I? I have give a pro-town advice but you have ignored it and are trying to make it look like I'm upset, more reasons to scumread you, thanks.
I mean if you want to spend your time on ISOing me instead of making new content, be my guess. You may think that it makes you less scummy but it doesn't.
In post 1445, Oxy wrote:No, I'm not going to make a wall. If you would like to read over this day again and ask me about something I've said about Skitter, or something like that, I'd be happy to answer. I've been pretty clear about why I believe Skitter is scum.
Never asked you to make a wall, bullet list would do.
From what I remember you have had her as scum by poe.
In post 1444, ofrhz wrote:@sajj - annoying posting styles include wall posting, not letting unproductive threads of conversation die —> leading to more wall posting, talking about the same shit over and over again without making any headway
Both of which all three of us are guilty of to one extent or another but Oxy? Not really imo
That's not what Skitter is talking about imo. I saw that you are on phone so we can talk about when you fully catch up.
In post 1430, Oxy wrote:I'm having trouble believing that you think this is a useful conversation for anybody.
You're deliberately promoting a suboptimal gamestate for your own amusement. This is probably the scummiest thing that has happened all game imo, and instead of defending your position (ie explaining why the 1v1 should happen given that it will likely induce apathy), you're calling me scummy for calling you out on your bullshit.
I'm probably not switching votes this phase.
You are deliberately twisting words and trying to spin events to fit a narrative - any narrative! - that either ends without you being lynched, or without you spewing anyone else.
The lack of reason coming from your slot is the clear scum claim that I expected from you. I think it is very pro-town for me to 1v1 you here. I don't foresee my vote moving, either.
In post 1430, Oxy wrote:I'm having trouble believing that you think this is a useful conversation for anybody.
You're deliberately promoting a suboptimal gamestate for your own amusement. This is probably the scummiest thing that has happened all game imo, and instead of defending your position (ie explaining why the 1v1 should happen given that it will likely induce apathy), you're calling me scummy for calling you out on your bullshit.
I'm probably not switching votes this phase.
Do you actually want to hear the answer to this nonsense?
No, the amusement thing was a joke. I encouraged them to press each other because I wanted to judge an expanded interaction between them, and because I have both of them in my lynch pool and wanted to encourage discussion about why people in my lynch pool would/wouldn't be good lynches.
Also, it's not a given that it will induce apathy. Eth0s was busy. NSG didn't like it, and I apologizing for them walling at one another, NSG. But at the core of this argument is the idea that posts make people not want to play, and that's a great argument for why we shouldn't wall. It's not an argument against having interactions.
