Mini 2006: Scummer in this game UPick GAME OVER

[MOMOMEN]

What do you think scenario is, that I'm scum with beeboy? Doesn't make sense

Yes and it does.

Why does Nadia retract claim if we're scum

Why does bee claim in first place if we're scum?

Because Nahdia would realize we would be copping you not the godfather as beeboy claimed.

Bee claims for the credit and to get Wisdom and Mastina to work against each other. Which was working.

And no, they probably aren't scum partners.

[MOMOMEN]

Also, my role is now completrly useless Dino says and does nothing but actually confirm that Nico/mastina are now masons so like... I don't understand why that doubt is still there

lol

[MariaR]

What's up Eddie

[MOMOMEN]

So in absence of doing a full comprehensive read, I've been jumping around to random bits and pieces of the game to see if I get any reads. I wouldn't say anything is set in stone right now but this is where I'm at currently:

Towny: mastina, Nico, MathDino, Pine
Not Sure: MOMOMEN
Scummy: LLD, Wisdom

Everyone else (MariaR, Kokichi, and Not_Mafia) I've seen really little of in my hopping around so I'm not sure. I know there's a good amount of focus on the former two atm. From what I've gathered the push on them is partially a function of this lack of activity. Is that the bulk of it?

bleh

[Mathdino]

mathblade, your argument is undermined by the continual success and high accuracy rates of people reading based off of meta

if meta-based players had =random accuracy rates, or lower accuracy than "LET'S ONLY READ BASED ON POSTS IN THIS GAME" players, then sure, your argument would hold ground

but like

your argument right now is dangerously out of touch with current site meta

Editx8: is this why the post count is too damn high?

[MOMOMEN]

UNVOTE:

why did no one tell me that beeboy has an elli-tell on lovebird

i don't know why i need to repeat this every game, but no, x (beeboy) does not have a god damn elli tell

[MOMOMEN]

I had an elli-tell on Lovebird before I outed it to her. It's entirely a thing.

If beeboy is town, do you agree that Lovebird is town?

No.

I don’t believe in elli tell.

The elli tell in my experience is just who elli likes or who does what elli expects. The “tell” has almost never read me right and people take pride in fooling machines. So on principle no.

Unless it’s 100% right it’s not a tell.

and, again, NO. that isn't true at all, none of this paragraph is. a tell does not need to be 100% right that's why its a TELL not a NOTHING BECAUSE NOTHING IS 100% RIGHT

that is not how elli reads

that is not true either

I had an elli-tell on Lovebird before I outed it to her. It's entirely a thing.

If beeboy is town, do you agree that Lovebird is town?

no it isn't buddy

Town by extension of beeboy: Lovebird

incorrect

[MariaR]

I don't believe it's unreasonable for Beeboy/Love to on dif sides.

[MOMOMEN]

- If Lovebird flips scum, then that makes beeboy scum, I agree. Contrapositive of beeboy-town --> Lovebird town.

still n/o

Ellibereth sucks at reading me and is swingy as fuck. Sometimes he is right sometimes not even with his program.

this person sucks at reading me therefore they suck at mafia ?

i know exactly why he and pretty much everyone have trouble reading you, and while you do have a good scum game its not because of that. you can ask if you want, fair warning you might not like the answer. this is irrelevant.

Elli’s methods are his program lol.

...no....

I'd policy lynch beeboy if I could

no, you wouldn't

It means beeboy, using Elli's methods, found something that can sort Lovebird's alignment 100% of the time.

no

I refuse to bow down to some machine because I program them for a living. If Mafiascum allowed betting I would bet you something I could make it think I was scum when I am not. Just because I don’t agree doesn’t mean I am “preventing PoE”. And it doesn’t mean I am “stopping you from solving the game”

you have no idea how dumb you and dino sound rn

- Go read the Paragon thread. I don't think you understand how Elli gets his tells. The program isn't ACTUALLY a neural net that spits out alignments, that's a meme (one that I will continue propagating ngl).

first sensical thing

- Elli being bad at reading some players doesn't mean that meta-tells don't work. Elli doesn't have any tells on RC, or a lot of the scum players that can manipulate their meta. Other players ARE able to meta-read RC. beeboy happens to be able to meta-read Lovebird, and he has, in his ISO, backed up that claim.

also a fine point


and i'm bored of reading people spew dumbassery about elli

[Mathdino]

eddie have you considered catching up in full and then quoting/responding to a single post

instead of going through the thread and repeating "no" at every post that basically has a repeat of the same points

if everyone played like you did, the thread would beat D1 records onsite

[MOMOMEN]

I'm mostly shocked we're not lynching conf scum mech wise. Like the fact Mastina and Dino don't have a hard on for lynching mon is shocking

Lol Momrangal is not conf scum mechwise. Otherwise anyone with a scummy sounding role is conf scum. That’s just bad.

Conf scum is lovebird and Nahdia for fakeclaiming.

shut upppp

Just ignore OTM

We're regaining functionality.

You, me, LLD, Lovebird, probably Nahdia, Mastina if she can focus. That's the Townbloc that's going to turn this shitshow around.

It starts with Kokichi and Maria.

Hell, I'll even fall in line with you because I think both Kokichi and Maria are scum.

VOTE: Maria

Getting dragged into OTM's petulance just perpetuates the problem. Be pro-Town

this might be the most shit townbloc i've ever seen

I need a majority to agree to "beeboy town implies Lovebird town". The fact that no one pointed it out to me until I found it myself is pretty shit. Lovebird can't die if Nahdia does. And honestly, I'm lowkey townreading beeboy for pulling that shit.

OTM hurts that majority. If it's clear that a large portion of the other players agree to that partial gamesolve, then yeah I'll go with Maria/Kokichi.

Edit: I see scum!LLD doing that just fine. And role is not alignment indicative. Unless her read is >95%, OTM is the best possible townflip that can happen. If Maria or Kokichi flips town, we're back in the exact same shitshow tomorrow.

Convince mastina to stop filling 80% of her catchups with "OTM IS SCUM CAPSSSS" and that'll also work for me.

Not when I fucking force Momrangal to confirm mastina is masons and not fakeclaiming too. If Momrangal lies that is suicide. And if I am alive Momrangal gets a result.

And no

That block is bullshit.

Lovebird needs to go now.

And I didn’t point it out because it’s irrelebant. It is a read.

but they're town like i've been saying for 120 pages and it just keeps getting more obvious

So we're kind of at a point where because we're leaving Momrangal, mastina/Nico, and Pine/me alive, and because Eddie won't flip, and because Lovebird can't get lynched before beeboy,

Eddie also won't flip because Eddie spews town

Idk why anyone thinks I tell beeboy to with me claim mason as scum there, makes totally no sense. Wasn't scumread anyways

Nobody thinks you did. Scum cftww?

Come push lovebird with me.

does mathdinkle still think they're scum independant of beeboy?

[MOMOMEN]

What's up Eddie

hey

recess just ended so back to teaching i go

[MOMOMEN]

Editx8: is this why the post count is too damn high?

i don't have the highest post count even

eddie have you considered catching up in full and then quoting/responding to a single post

instead of going through the thread and repeating "no" at every post that basically has a repeat of the same points

if everyone played like you did, the thread would beat D1 records onsite

being told no once is not a good learning method

people learn through repetition

if every post has a repeat of the same points, have YOU (the thread) considered not rehashing the same points over and over?

[Mathdino]

people don't learn through overflow and 5 replacements

i assume shit like this is why the thread is too long for replacements to actually catch up and learn the relevant info in the first place

what are your reads

[Pine]

This is the only direct response I intend to make to this line of questioning. It has the potential to spiral pretty uselessly.

+For starters, has done practically nothing to gamesolve.
How have I not game solved when I have my lynch pool all figured out. What is game solving to you pine? Perhaps we solve in different manners but I feel like I've solved my own way

You may have your lynch pool all figured out, but you haven't explained your reasoning practically at all, and you have not engaged in the group effort to sort and solve. Simply posting your own lynch preferences unsupported is not gamesolving.

+Has focused on discrediting reads against you rather than scumhunting.
Reads against who? I've actively changed my pool around and scumhunted this is just false

Ah, sorry for lack of clarity. By the second line, I changed my response from being directed to you (Maria) to a general address. I missed this change of subject. I am pointing out that roughly 1/4-1/3 of your entire ISO is pouting or whining about people's unsupported suspicion of you. Town generally doesn't focus that exclusively on defense.

+Alisae spotted connections and possible support between Kokichi and Maria, to the point where e thought they were Masons until confronted. Not a good person to be connected to.
I defended Kokichi because I don't think he ate'd like that as scum I never once said we were masons.

Alisae thought you were Masons, I didn't say you were claiming it. And incidentally, that reasoning you just gave was more than you ever gave before across half a dozen or so posts hard-defending Kokichi. Too little, too late.

+Lots and lots and lots of nearly-contentless posting. Enough to remain present and current, but just fades back into unhelpfulness when not being paid attention to.
Okay fair point but how is this scummy you've seen me filler post in other games where we town I'm a reactive poster I like people posting towards me otherwise I fade until I see something I want to comment on

It's always scummy, from everyone. Just because you've done it before as Town doesn't get you a pass this game, because you also do it as scum. It's meta-null, and generally scummy.

+Consistent undermining of Masons. All of them. Suspecting one pair and not the other is fine, but Maria pushed all of them and the Mason cop who would help sort it.
Correct if we have masons the play here is bad you should never fully out a mason pair I don't believe any of them. I think the play here is bad and the Mason cop is more then likely a scum role you don't leave people alive for claim you vote based on scumreads and I sr mon idc about the claim

This is again more explanation than you've given in the past, and it's still piss poor. The point stands that you've undermined and pushed practically every Mason claim, particularly Mastina.

+Consistent buddying of Alisae with some dismissal of me; clearly working an angle there.
I don't think I even buddied alisae at all I was pushing your slot for almost the full early game but I am friends with Ali so yes I'm gonna be more willing to listen to Ali then you because Ali can read me well where you have ml'd me in the few games we played together

Fair, though kind of irrelevant.

+Immediate buddying to OTM (2737), immediate dismissal of me when Ali repped out (2739-2743).
You didn't try to engage with me and of course I'm buddying OTM Wisdoms replace out was towny as fuck and has been obv town

I didn't engage with you because I was in the hospital getting my hand squeezed off during contractions and helping my wife deliver our child. It was strawman then, and strawman now.

+Just absolute constant hard-defending of Kokichi, with zero reason given. Seriously, I can't find a one.
He doesn't play this way as scum the self vote the way he's acting he outright doesn't I'd bet the game on it.

Mmkay. You've defended him more effectively in your rebuttal than in your entire ISO up to this point, and all you've done is repeat the same weak point twice.

+I had to get to post 3048 before I found anything AT ALL from Maria resembling a case, reasoning, or an effort to genuinely push someone. Even then, it's one of the Masons. And it ended up being one of the confirmed ones. And also a piss-poor weak push anyway.
If you want a case on someone ask. I'm not one to randomly case someone I can state reads but I like getting prompted to do something or do live interaction

In other words, you don't like to scumhunt. Got it.

+The largest burst of activity or effort in the entire game from Maria came from Mathdino's replace-in. Immediate efforts to discredit and drag conversation negative and off-topic.
You can stop with that because I would never use a out of game issue to push an agenda in the game and I ask you don't try to act like I would that's just disrespectful and a low blow

I concede this as a low blow and apologize for it.

+Practically her only stated reasons for anything here are setup spec, and frankly one-dimensional setup spec.
fair

Touche.

TL;DR - Maria's rebuttal is kind of like her ISO. Minimalist, focused on avoiding suspicion for herself, and pretty empty of content.

[MariaR]

I have scumhunted just because it isn't up your standard of scum hunting doesn't mean I haven't you know? I've read this game my opinions are clear so are my stances I don't really know what you're asking for.

[OnTheMark]

people don't learn through overflow and 5 replacements

i assume shit like this is why the thread is too long for replacements to actually catch up and learn the relevant info in the first place

what are your reads

You mean like I tried and no one summarized. The problem is people keep posting bullshit and I have to defend against it or it turns into more bullshit. Except the original input I was give. Was bullshit which meant my output was bullshit. So we take care of what the root cause of the bullshit is. The fake claim.

If people would just make goddamn sense this, not fucking do personal attacks, and tell the truth, not gambit and just be Townie this game would be simpler.

Instead people just decide they are gonna be as antitown as possible and anyone who has passion feelings or emotions must be antitown for giving a damn to not let the game get in control by scum.

So town and scum/antitown fight it out.

The answer is quit thinking you can control the game and instead just be Townie. Then 90% of these arguments don’t fucking happen.

[OnTheMark]

mathblade, your argument is undermined by the continual success and high accuracy rates of people reading based off of meta

if meta-based players had =random accuracy rates, or lower accuracy than "LET'S ONLY READ BASED ON POSTS IN THIS GAME" players, then sure, your argument would hold ground

but like

your argument right now is dangerously out of touch with current site meta

Editx8: is this why the post count is too damn high?

Current site meta is town is shit and ramp up town power to insane levels.

I seriously got done with a normal game with jailkeeper and tracker and two masons versus encryptor and that is it.

I played a game against jailkeeper tracker and weak masonizer with roleblocker and encryptor. I forget if there was a third PR.

Don’t talk with me about site meta. Quite frankly it is shit atm. It’s a ton of people who townread people they like versus actually scimhunting.

I like mastina a whole fuckton. I think she is a damn good scum player and an okay town one. That doesn’t mean I don’t push her. Too many times the “town blocks” show up with the same damn people.

[Pine]

Bloc

No k

[Kokichi Oma]

Barring Kokichi, I feel Maria is the best lynch.

0/2

[Pine]

Awesome, do you plan to explain how? Ever?

[Kokichi Oma]

I already did. Not my fault you dont read me

[OnTheMark]

Do you like wood as Kokichi? Maybe 2x2 or 4x4? Like for building houses?

[OnTheMark]

Do you like wood Kokichi? Maybe 2x2 or 4x4? Like for building houses?

Sorry phone sucks sometimes

[mastina]

It looks like this is all dependent on beeboy and lovebird actually getting off their asses
Vote lovebird with me to get a fullclaim please

I don't believe in pressure votes.
Votes apply pressure only when the intent behind the vote is not to apply pressure.

By which, I mean. Votes pressure the target only when the vote carries with it an actual intent to lynch.

I sure as fuck don't feel pressured by self-proclaimed pressure votes. (Then again I don't tend to feel pressured by votes in general, either, but I digress.)

(Huh thought I hit submit on this post ages ago, lost where I was on it.)