Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[nancy]

I like that FF is putting reasons out and explaining some scummy things he sees of Flicker, without trying to manipulate the entire town and strong-arm the Lynch

Alright, fair. I think where I disagree is that I don't think not strongarming a lynch is towny and I don't think strongarming a lynch is necessarily scummy, either. Like, scum very often just skate by all game and get lost in empty process work that doesn't really do anything other than make them look town. What has FF done to solve the game in that post? What has he done that scum can't do? Sure, his posts are reasonable, but scum can be reasonable. What is he doing that scum can't do, or what is he doing that would really be a detriment to scum if he did it?

It seems like you're townreading low-key performance and I think that's probably a blind-spot for you? I don't think being low-key is town. I don't think FF is mafia, he's hovering like a little above null for me right now, and maybe you're right and he's just town, but right now I just don't agree with your reasoning and I have some concerns with his play (which I'd sort of rather wait on talking about until he does more things).

[Eragon]

what joke??

Oka made a joke about the scum team being the 2 people who havent really posted much. In a newbie that could very well be what happens sometimes. Town has a want to get out there and meet each other. We want to size each other up, really get each others weight. We can only really do that by being right next to them, or as I know it to be called, dancing. This is how I town hunt and where I get my reads from. Scum has to be weary of everything they do each time they interact with people because its all a lie. What scum says to one person they have to say to all, and when you are lying lies tend to build on themselves until there is this invisible web. Then you have town people who start to dive into every word someone has posted and you start to see the web being built over time. Thats why is so hard for scum to hide forever, and why newbie scum try to hide until they cant anymore.

I dont see how its a joke...

and it seems opportunistic to me

[Formerfish]

huh?

Your unvote is weird.

Why was it weird? He just pointed out that trinity voting brought me to l-2, and his vote was on me as well. Since his vote on me was in rvs and we are clearly out of it, it would make sense to move or at least remove a rvs vote which is currently the leading wagon based solely off of rvs votes.

Naked unvotes are wolfy.

It's slightly a meme.

Are you always this... logical?

I tend to be, which is why its so taxing on me to be scum. I constantly try to figure out peoples motivations for doing things. It kinda ends up being like trying to see into the future and past at the same time based of what you are seeing in the present. And with my profession I am constantly trying to find the root causes of issues and fix them to make life easier for myself and the people I work with.

[OkaPoka]

it was a semi serious question i guess?

because i wasn't getting any scumreads again, i was asking what are the odds that the reason being is that the two scum are the ppl not talking

[Eragon]

I like that FF is putting reasons out and explaining some scummy things he sees of Flicker, without trying to manipulate the entire town and strong-arm the Lynch

Alright, fair. I think where I disagree is that I don't think not strongarming a lynch is towny and I don't think strongarming a lynch is necessarily scummy, either. Like, scum very often just skate by all game and get lost in empty process work that doesn't really do anything other than make them look town. What has FF done to solve the game in that post? What has he done that scum can't do? Sure, his posts are reasonable, but scum can be reasonable. What is he doing that scum can't do, or what is he doing that would really be a detriment to scum if he did it?

It seems like you're townreading low-key performance and I think that's probably a blind-spot for you? I don't think being low-key is town. I don't think FF is mafia, he's hovering like a little above null for me right now, and maybe you're right and he's just town, but right now I just don't agree with your reasoning and I have some concerns with his play (which I'd sort of rather wait on talking about until he does more things).

ok, I understand that strong-arming isn't always a scum tell, and is sometimes actually towny, but normally doing it early D1 on a mis-lynch bait target pings me a bit, so the fact that FF doesn't is a bit towny.

I also have liked some of his other posts, but I understand that scum can do this to.

he is one of my stronger town reads for now, not gonna say it will never change.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: iceman

ill leave it here because i have no idea what you would want to policy lynch an IC and simultaneously compliment them

I don't like this vote from you Oka. Iceman is a newbie and he is going to have some newbie ideas. I remember the days of my first few games and I thought that I was going to change the world. I was going to make people play the game the way I thought it should be best played. I was going to lynch people to make them active and to make them change their evil ways by leading lynches on them no matter what. The idea that an IC shouldnt last very long in the game isn't without merit. Think about it. If IC is town they are the best player for town because of experience, scum will want to kill them to try and deny town their best player. If IC is scum they are never going to be killed if everyone just town reads the IC because they are teaching the game.

Most of the time getting to lynch an IC before endgame doesn't happen because scum kills them early, but when you think about it an IC playing late into the game is something to be suspect about. I don't think that there are many scum teams out there playing the long con with the IC and getting away with it, ya know?

maybe he is town but im not getting many scumreads rn and i feel like his post on nancy is fake and the comment on IC's sounds like he wants to keep his lynch options open

When have you ever had strong scum reads on day 1, thats not really your style man? See, its posts like this that do worry me about you. Of course hes keeping his options open, its day 1, we all have our options open. I would not lynch like 3 people right now, the rest are all lynchable to some degree. This is overly aggressive play from you at this point in the game, and its propelling you further up my list of to die.

[IcemanCh]

Let me clarify one more time becuae this is getting silly and distracting from finding scum.


Right now I believe that Nancy is town
Nancy would have to be an amazing scum player to not be town. To me Nancy is my first pick for town.

I made my comment about the IC because in the odd event that we have zero reads before a lylo that is where I would go. I don't see that happening though because Nancy is coming off so strongly as town.


For now we should set the issue aside and look for scum. Here is what I have so far.

Strong town: Nancy
Town Trinity FormerFish
Lean Town Erogon
Nuetral Okta Stanley Sarge
Scum Lean Flick

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: iceman

ill leave it here because i have no idea what you would want to policy lynch an IC and simultaneously compliment them

I don't like this vote from you Oka. Iceman is a newbie and he is going to have some newbie ideas. I remember the days of my first few games and I thought that I was going to change the world. I was going to make people play the game the way I thought it should be best played. I was going to lynch people to make them active and to make them change their evil ways by leading lynches on them no matter what. The idea that an IC shouldnt last very long in the game isn't without merit. Think about it. If IC is town they are the best player for town because of experience, scum will want to kill them to try and deny town their best player. If IC is scum they are never going to be killed if everyone just town reads the IC because they are teaching the game.

Most of the time getting to lynch an IC before endgame doesn't happen because scum kills them early, but when you think about it an IC playing late into the game is something to be suspect about. I don't think that there are many scum teams out there playing the long con with the IC and getting away with it, ya know?

maybe he is town but im not getting many scumreads rn and i feel like his post on nancy is fake and the comment on IC's sounds like he wants to keep his lynch options open

When have you ever had strong scum reads on day 1, thats not really your style man? See, its posts like this that do worry me about you. Of course hes keeping his options open, its day 1, we all have our options open. I would not lynch like 3 people right now, the rest are all lynchable to some degree. This is overly aggressive play from you at this point in the game, and its propelling you further up my list of to die.

k

who is scum?

[Formerfish]

it feels like it was phrased in a way that allows iceman to build upon it later to attack nancy w/o really needing to build a legitimate in game case on her

like instead of saying something about nancy feels off, feels like she is controlling town he goes with the proposition that cannot really be argued against

So why is your first instinct to call him scum and vote him. Why wouldnt you talk to the newbie, dance if you will, so suss out his true machinations and intentions? Wouldn't that be a fantastic way to figure someone out? "Hey Iceman, could you explain this IC lynching business more?" Iceman: "Sure, here's a full explination." Oka: "Huh, I still have a question about blind lynching or if there will be cases?" Iceman: "I would look more closely at an IC alive on day 3, but if there was someone more likely to be scum, I would vote the other person and not the IC." Oka: "Ahhh... ok, I thought you were saying something different, my bad!"

[OkaPoka]

because my vote is not on anyone and at this point im just going to grasp at straws to find scum

i mean i could go ahead and drop a vote on flicker but other people seem to be pushing that so I might as well do other stuff in the meantime

this game feels way too slow for my taste, gotta shake things up somehow

[nancy]

it feels like it was phrased in a way that allows iceman to build upon it later to attack nancy w/o really needing to build a legitimate in game case on her

like instead of saying something about nancy feels off, feels like she is controlling town he goes with the proposition that cannot really be argued against

I don't think you're insane for thinking this.

But like, lmao, it doesn't feel very intuitive for mafia to come in the way he did and talk in detail about his idea that we should lynch the IC in lylo. He has to know that will look bad and if he's mafia he has to already be feeling like he wants me very dead with the way my thread presence is, so it's like, not a thing that he's ever actually going to cash in on and he would know that. I also kind of feel like it would take a bit more of an experienced player to try to use that as a way to break down trust, and kinda think he'd be intimidated by me given how he's a newb and newbscum generally suck up to the IC.

[Eragon]

because my vote is not on anyone and

at this point im just going to grasp at straws to find scum

i mean i could go ahead and drop a vote on flicker but other people seem to be pushing that so I might as well do other stuff in the meantime

this game feels way too slow for my taste, gotta shake things up somehow

why?

we have plenty of time left (iirc) to find scum.

plus you should actually have reasons that someone is scum, not just "grasping at straws"

also, this game being slow, please.

[OkaPoka]

yeah i think this game is slow sue me

[Eragon]

well, even so we have plenty of time.

im used to 96 hour days(4 days RL) at the maximum and we have double that plus one day.

these daylengths feel abnormally long to me, but I know I have plenty of time

[OkaPoka]

if we had a 1 month deadline this game would still be going slowly imo

[OkaPoka]

tho i haven't played an RVS newbie game in a couple years

[Eragon]

ill admit its going slower than normal games on ToS FM, but its not too bad

[Eragon]

but I mean, can we expect 150 pages on D1?

(no joke there was a game on ToS that had 150 pages in 4 RL days)

[OkaPoka]

it's not the pagecount and number of posts that makes it slow its the lack of scumhunting and wagon forming which im at fault for but nonetheless its giving a slow impression

[nancy]

what joke??

Oka made a joke about the scum team being the 2 people who havent really posted much. In a newbie that could very well be what happens sometimes. Town has a want to get out there and meet each other. We want to size each other up, really get each others weight. We can only really do that by being right next to them, or as I know it to be called, dancing. This is how I town hunt and where I get my reads from. Scum has to be weary of everything they do each time they interact with people because its all a lie. What scum says to one person they have to say to all, and when you are lying lies tend to build on themselves until there is this invisible web. Then you have town people who start to dive into every word someone has posted and you start to see the web being built over time. Thats why is so hard for scum to hide forever, and why newbie scum try to hide until they cant anymore.

I dont see how its a joke...

and it seems opportunistic to me

Er, it seems opportunistic to think that two random people are mafia? Pls explain.

[Eragon]

not the fact that its 2 random people, the fact that its 2 people with zero thread presence and that are noobs(if im not mistaken)

if thats not hella opportunistic idk what is

[nancy]

I like that FF is putting reasons out and explaining some scummy things he sees of Flicker, without trying to manipulate the entire town and strong-arm the Lynch

Alright, fair. I think where I disagree is that I don't think not strongarming a lynch is towny and I don't think strongarming a lynch is necessarily scummy, either. Like, scum very often just skate by all game and get lost in empty process work that doesn't really do anything other than make them look town. What has FF done to solve the game in that post? What has he done that scum can't do? Sure, his posts are reasonable, but scum can be reasonable. What is he doing that scum can't do, or what is he doing that would really be a detriment to scum if he did it?

It seems like you're townreading low-key performance and I think that's probably a blind-spot for you? I don't think being low-key is town. I don't think FF is mafia, he's hovering like a little above null for me right now, and maybe you're right and he's just town, but right now I just don't agree with your reasoning and I have some concerns with his play (which I'd sort of rather wait on talking about until he does more things).

ok, I understand that strong-arming isn't always a scum tell, and is sometimes actually towny, but normally doing it early D1 on a mis-lynch bait target pings me a bit, so the fact that FF doesn't is a bit towny.

I also have liked some of his other posts, but I understand that scum can do this to.

he is one of my stronger town reads for now, not gonna say it will never change.

I didn't mean strongarming is sometimes actually towny, I meant that I don't think you can just look at it as like, an objective tell and think, okay person A didn't do behavior X, town.

[nancy]

Let me clarify one more time becuae this is getting silly and distracting from finding scum.


Right now I believe that Nancy is town
Nancy would have to be an amazing scum player to not be town. To me Nancy is my first pick for town.

I made my comment about the IC because in the odd event that we have zero reads before a lylo that is where I would go. I don't see that happening though because Nancy is coming off so strongly as town.


For now we should set the issue aside and look for scum. Here is what I have so far.

Strong town: Nancy
Town Trinity FormerFish
Lean Town Erogon
Nuetral Okta Stanley Sarge
Scum Lean Flick

How did you get there on like, all of those reads?

Also, interacting with people is good.tm

[Formerfish]

VOTE: iceman

ill leave it here because i have no idea what you would want to policy lynch an IC and simultaneously compliment them

I don't like this vote from you Oka. Iceman is a newbie and he is going to have some newbie ideas. I remember the days of my first few games and I thought that I was going to change the world. I was going to make people play the game the way I thought it should be best played. I was going to lynch people to make them active and to make them change their evil ways by leading lynches on them no matter what. The idea that an IC shouldnt last very long in the game isn't without merit. Think about it. If IC is town they are the best player for town because of experience, scum will want to kill them to try and deny town their best player. If IC is scum they are never going to be killed if everyone just town reads the IC because they are teaching the game.

Most of the time getting to lynch an IC before endgame doesn't happen because scum kills them early, but when you think about it an IC playing late into the game is something to be suspect about. I don't think that there are many scum teams out there playing the long con with the IC and getting away with it, ya know?

maybe he is town but im not getting many scumreads rn and i feel like his post on nancy is fake and the comment on IC's sounds like he wants to keep his lynch options open

When have you ever had strong scum reads on day 1, thats not really your style man? See, its posts like this that do worry me about you. Of course hes keeping his options open, its day 1, we all have our options open. I would not lynch like 3 people right now, the rest are all lynchable to some degree. This is overly aggressive play from you at this point in the game, and its propelling you further up my list of to die.

k

who is scum?

Right now im saying in you, flicker, stanley, and SA. You and flicker because of your attitudes and the way you are nit picking peoples statements to fit a profile you are trying to push, stanley for possible distancing in flicker ends up being scum, and SA because of activity.

[Formerfish]

because my vote is not on anyone and at this point im just going to grasp at straws to find scum

i mean i could go ahead and drop a vote on flicker but other people seem to be pushing that so I might as well do other stuff in the meantime

this game feels way too slow for my taste, gotta shake things up somehow

Give me back town!Oka who wanders around like mister Magoo without his glasses ass ending his way into fiding scum on day 2/3. When are you aggressive early game?