Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Nauci]

Would never ordinarily recommend cutting someone doing what TW is this game this much slack but there is a fairly big power shortage here that makes me somewhat wary. doctor wasn't even full but oddnight

Also logically TW should know on some level the risk associated with softing if he is scum but doing it when mom the encryptor was the clear other lynch to him would be just kind of dumb I think (though maybe he's just bad at scum)

neighbouriser is almost negligible in any power sense if town and one that gives neighbourhoods that delayed and nightonly feels like it sucks even compared to neighbourisers im used to
if EP felt scummier here I'd completely ignore the claim altogether WRT pushing or lynching him BTW but he doesn't really stick out besides being kind of unengaged (although maybe that's why it's hard to tell)

Are you saying either there's a 3rd TPR with all of the power or that a 4th is plausible?

I mean if the other 2 mafia are only goons, then 3 seems plausible.

[Nauci]

btw I remembered from one of the times reading mom iso but
mom-invisibility thing on the surface might seem anti-tell on most surface level but is pretty common to how noobscum and sometimes badscum distance
rvs partnervote is almost infamous as is votepark on partner but dont really push him and sleep off most of other game happenings

So you disagree with my speculation about scumErrant+townTW?

[Bernie Sanders]

neighbouriser if town offers very little power and almost negligible to setup spec. especially if it cant talk during day (get to talk the night after is also a huge delay in a game like mafia). best case scenario is very rare but if the neighbouriser gets a PR and they both can soulread each other town they can try to roleswap or in other words the neighbouriser can out a result for the PR who could stay safe. extremely, extremely rare.
its as scum OTOH that it has some level as power though because there it can serve well for manipulation and potential to get trust, maybe role and kill

[Bernie Sanders]

btw I remembered from one of the times reading mom iso but
mom-invisibility thing on the surface might seem anti-tell on most surface level but is pretty common to how noobscum and sometimes badscum distance
rvs partnervote is almost infamous as is votepark on partner but dont really push him and sleep off most of other game happenings

So you disagree with my speculation about scumErrant+townTW?

IDK what's your speculation beyond it's possible (I'm kind of skimming to try to be efficient)
EP scum is possible as in I don't really feel safe townreading him and he's disengaged in general but nothing particularly sticks out or makes me think he's better than cointoss odds

[Bernie Sanders]

24 hours without elaborating on his claim (likely because he didn't find anything to help him make something plausible up?).

These delay tactics. Ugh..

maybe mom-tw-bv came into this game with the infinite time delay to frustrate town to death strategem
the never ending vla the never ending soft and the never ending story catchup

[Bernie Sanders]

huh just had a thing wondering if something didn't feel missing/off today and I didnt know what but then realised probably feeling the lack of shoshin presence (:/)

[Bernie Sanders]

EP who do you think is scum?

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Bernie

[Bernie Sanders]

Sorry but think you're actually just scum this time my dude

[Bernie Sanders]

Just let it happen

[BlackVoid]

I'm really not feeling well so content will have to wait for a bit, sorry guys.

[BlackVoid]

I think there's been a bit too much paranoia about my catchup. I don't agree with skitter's assessment of my catchup being non-alignment-indicative. I actually think it very much was. I spent a lot of time (over twenty hours) on it which is something I'd never do as scum. In the game that skitter linked earlier, I made a brief catchup post and after that, never really went back to expand in detail about anything. Because I didn't really care what happened in the game. I obviously think skitter having some paranoia about me being able to do all that as scum is coming from a genuine place. But some people (Nauci and I'll check whoever else said this) have been *very* intent on pushing the "catchup should be disregarded" narrative which makes me think I was onto something there. It's either that or they are worried that if anyone reads too deeply into the catchup, they'll figure out that I'm town and can't discredit me anymore. I also think it's kinda bizarre that Nauci just keeps repeating that she's paranoid of me but never really trying to read me.

[BlackVoid]

Sorry but think you're actually just scum this time my dude

Why would he quickhammer a partner without giving her a chance to claim? I even said that Momra/TheWorst should both claim. I think Not_Mafia could easily just pretend to be offline for a bit longer as opposed to hammer a partner for towncred that he may or may not get.

[BlackVoid]

I don't think his analysis has been super AI

This for example doesn't feel at all genuine. I actually think everything I say is alignment-indicative but even from an outside perspective, there's a LOT of content that I posted that you can have an opinion on. Alignment-wise.

[skitter30]

HURT: duckling

I know this was likely not intended as a vote, but I want to be clear if this was intended to be a vote, it isn't. -brass

nope, not meant to be a vote

probably shouldn't vote him until/unless all this pr stuff is cleared up but i'm scumreading him hard and that's where i'd be voting in the absence of the claim thing, despite the claim thing, and perhaps because of the claim thing, and i wanted to indicate my feelings on the subject

also i'm going to demand that if he plays this waiting game today that he absolutely *must* claim the day before xylo or i will do my damndest to policy lynch him on that day

i do want him to answer lingering questions wrt to his claim nowish tho because it's kinda stalling the gamestate and i think he knows that


(aside, brass, i just want to reiterate that you're legit one of my favorite mods on site and i really appreciate how attentive you are, and how communicative you are with the players :) )

--

I think scumEP+townTW is not possible

i'm pretty sure scum!ep + scum!tw isn't a thing

and also pretty sure that scum!ep + town!tw isn't a thing, but not quite as confident as the above

(ie i think that the way ep is approaching this is kinda townie actually)

--

nauci for the record if tw is town i think your scum equity goes up

i'm getting these vibes that you're like looking for reasons to discredit him

i'm very aware that i'm shouting my discontent at the claim right now so this may seem kinda cog-dis-y, but whatever; i think i ought to mention it anyways

i don't really know how to explain what i'm seeing but i'll try; like 2720 pings me the bad way; i feel like you're looking for mechanical reasons to find his claim scummy that are based on kinda meh mechanical assumptions that we can't really verify given that it's a closed setup

like we don't know how many pr's there are; if some other town pr existed and claimed i would not consider their very existance a cc to tw given that we don't know what the setup looks like at this time

because there's no way there are 4 TPR in a 13p normal I think? I would glare at Brass forever if there were

which I suppose means

no matter what TW's role claim is, if someone CC's TPR at all, then *at least* TW is scum, if not both

like this seems like a bit of a jump to me, 'another claim means we have 4 tprs which means tw is scum', especially since town neighborizer is like a meh role in terms of town power

like the last mini normal i played (mini 1963 i think it was) i think had: scum ninja vs town rb, town detective, town vig, town vanilla cop, and town gunsmith (yeah the ninja basically existed as a red herring i think; it did nothing in that setup)

idk your frustration with tw doesn't feel totally genuine to me overall; i don't know how to explain it better

--

Sorry but think you're actually just scum this time my dude

i feel like mom voting vizzy *probably* doesn't come from scum but i don't want to rule it out because of the rvs-scum-partner-distancing

i don't think nm hammering mom is ai at all whatsoever

@bv: it's def within his town meta to lolhammer when given the opurtunity; and if scum!him thought she was going to get lynched for sure he might have just hammered anyways to be on the wagon

[skitter30]

don't agree with skitter's assessment of my catchup being non-alignment-indicative. I actually think it very much was. I spent a lot of time (over twenty hours) on it which is something I'd never do as scum.

i'm sorry

i know you worked pretty hard on it

you're more likely than not town here but i'm in a super paranoid thing where i'm having trouble being comfortable calling people town right now besides for like gustavo

[the worst]

(aside, brass, i just want to reiterate that you're legit one of my favorite mods on site and i really appreciate how attentive you are, and how communicative you are with the players )

actually quoting this for truth even though I haven't read anything else on this page

brass top tier mod

[Errantparabola]

Srry short responses bc i have very little time and i'm not at home rn

maybe EP and TW just claimed their scum pt as a neighbourhood in the ultimate gambit strat

Ahaha
"What's the title of the neighborhood?"
"Uh..... not american presidents mafia scumtopic"

neighbouriser is almost negligible in any power sense if town and one that gives neighbourhoods that delayed and nightonly feels like it sucks even compared to neighbourisers im used to

Consider also that it's a one-shot role
The small amount of use that it generated in this game is still more than i'd expect it to generate on average, lol

btw I remembered from one of the times reading mom iso but
mom-invisibility thing on the surface might seem anti-tell on most surface level but is pretty common to how noobscum and sometimes badscum distance
rvs partnervote is almost infamous as is votepark on partner but dont really push him and sleep off most of other game happenings

What's your keyser read today

EP who do you think is scum?

This is only working with the potential its betwewn worst and bv today: it would much rather lynch worst than bv working on reads alone but i acknowledge giving a potential town worst an extra day has big merit

Im almost motivated to look into not mafia's scum meta (anyone w more experience in that regard weigh in?)
But i think not taking that into account i think there is a moderate chance he flips town and i'm wrong about a townread

As for the rest skitter and gustavo are my top townreads
Then you
Then nauci
Then keyser and irre
Then bv, independent of all the worst stuff

So my intention is to find a flip between worst and his guilty, then work as best i can with associations and maybe even pr results which would be just dandy
And i get that i've been mostly been treading water today and saying that worst needs to claim his result but its just annoying that what could potentially be the most important piece of info in the game right now is bein withheld from us

I spent a lot of time (over twenty hours) on it which is something I'd never do as scum

Ey man, regardless of anything game-related, i appreciate that you took the time to do a thorough catchup, thats above and beyond what most replacements do and once again im sorry for interpreting you as being hostile

[Errantparabola]

Someone who has more experience with the worst, would it be plausible for him to basically claim at the start of today if he had an inno result?

[BlackVoid]

@errantp, since you're here, a quick question: if you're town with a neighborizer role, don't you think it would be helpful to neighborize your strongest townreads to discuss reads with them privately? What were you hoping to get from neighborizing TheWorst outside of learning his role and why did you want his role anyways?

[BlackVoid]

@bv: it's def within his town meta to lolhammer when given the opurtunity; and if scum!him thought she was going to get lynched for sure he might have just hammered anyways to be on the wagon

That's fair. I could see him hammering to get people to townread him. I'm not ruling him out. I just think it's less likely that he would pass on the chance to get PRs outed.

For reference, here's a game I replaced into where he was scum. It was the old newbie setup. He fake-claimed 1-shot BP. Then based on the reactions to his claim,

he figured out both PRs

and crumbed it for his partner to see. I really think he's a lot smarter than he lets on. That's why I feel like he wouldn't quickhammer in a way that's suboptimal for his team.

[skitter30]

huh; i vaguely remember reading along that game

ok that's a fair point tbh and i'll give him townpoints for that

[skitter30]

(aside, brass, i just want to reiterate that you're legit one of my favorite mods on site and i really appreciate how attentive you are, and how communicative you are with the players )

actually quoting this for truth even though I haven't read anything else on this page

brass top tier mod

although i agree that we ought to appreciate how awesome brass is

i have no idea how this is the only thing on this page you read

[the worst]

I kinda scrolled up thinking "o boy here we go again" and the bright red caught my eye so I kinda half flicked through a couple of paragraphs of your post and realised nothing was getting thru my brainfog

[skitter30]

well the tldr version as pertains directly to you is that i think you're scummy despite, in spite, and because of your claim

the game's kinda waiting for you to figure out what you're doing here and i think you know that

i think you ought to sort through this now but if you don't i want you to be policied the day before xylo if you're still alive and still doing this