Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[WhyMafia]

Yeah, I'll say which posts ping me really hard

[WhyMafia]

ay page-top
am I a cool kid now

[Quick]

@quick, what im saying is that there is an extremely sizeable chance that this scumread direction is wrong since there are three people doing your scumtell and only two of us have a chance at being scum.

But whatever, could you elaborate why drawing attention to the nk is scummy?

Pretty simple really. If you make a post that all it says is "I am so surprised by the NK" and nothing else, that's the distinction I am trying to make here. Both you and Eragon said some other content related thing besides just that you were surprised by the NK. Making a sole post all on its own saying you are surprised by the NK without any other content in the post shows you are intending to show your surprise for the NK and nothing more.

Eragon said more than "Oh I am surprised" and you had a vote with the comment, which you explained later. Because of this, I feel what NM did was much more Scummy than what either of you did regarding the NK.

[OkaPoka]

Alright that's fair.

[Quick]

@quick, what im saying is that there is an extremely sizeable chance that this scumread direction is wrong since there are three people doing your scumtell and only two of us have a chance at being scum.

But whatever, could you elaborate why drawing attention to the nk is scummy?

Pretty simple really. If you make a post that all it says is "I am so surprised by the NK" and nothing else, that's the distinction I am trying to make here. Both you and Eragon said some other content related thing besides just that you were surprised by the NK. Making a sole post all on its own saying you are surprised by the NK without any other content in the post shows you are intending to show your surprise for the NK and nothing more.

Eragon said more than "Oh I am surprised" and you had a vote with the comment, which you explained later. Because of this, I feel what

WM

did was much more Scummy than what either of you did regarding the NK.

WM, not NM

EBWOP

[WhyMafia]

PREPARE YOURSELVES

FOR THE EPIC-EST OF EPIC POSTS

113 is the first thing that pinged me because it seemed sm like busy-work and just trying to force something
147 kind of confirmed what I thought where you say that you wanted to bait her. Like, she's new and I feel like you wanted her to say something that gives you justification to start a tunnel. Like your whole thing with that feels fake and forced. If you were town, you'd generally be looking for things that ping you, not trying to force people to try to say things that implicate a "slip"
Then 140 was far too early for PoE'ing to the two inactives?? To have that much confidence in your reads when your reasoning for the town reads are flimsy is just mind-boggling to me. It feels super complacent.

trinity is town because i don't see a new player interact that much and be scum

nancy ur town because i don't see you interacting that much to be scum

stanley feels like a rational town player

You're basically saying activity and making sense was the cause of your town reads. This, is incredibly lazy. And you only started truly scumhunting when pressure was raised against you? To me, you didn't try to do anything meaningful until after town basically Began pressuring you. You could've asked them questions on things that were happening in the game, or for their reads?
I see how in 169 you basically address everything I thought of. But still, that doesn't change the fact that you were trying to force something. Even if she did say she put him at L-2 for shits and giggles, I fail to see how that's indicative of scum. Someone quick-hammering would be awful, but that'd either be blatantly anti-town or just scum. L-2 creates juicy moments early game where it can potentially get the game moving.

Regarding your small push on Ice, it just feels again, so lazy and that you don't really have confidence in it. You don't try to understand why Ice would say the things he did and take into account how he could be thinking.
209 and 212 are both interesting bc you say you're bored by the game. Yet, you're not taking steps. You aren't asking for reads, trying to work with others. You're just coasting with your POE reads. The only proactive stuff you've done to this point is make a tiny push on Trinity that you took back, as well as this comment on Iceman.

259 - again you're just wanting other people to talk to you, but you're not taking that first step. You say you need to interact and build unique cases

pushing an unique case helps me get in the game and develop scumreads based on interaction with others.

but I haven't seen that
You did ask FF who he thought was scum, but you don't really follow up with that either


Alright
Your push on Trinity. Funny - you say she's not proactive and active and not trying to find scum, hence, she's scum. So far your trend has been pushing on the people who are either
A) newbies
or
B) relatively inactive

Your vote on 283 says you don't have any questions to Trinity. Hence to me it seems like you're just putting a vote and reasoning to just not be accused of not having a vote. It's like you were just looking for a scapegoat and found someone easy to push

450 I mean this kinda fits you ;P

Suddenly in 471 you're losing most of your town reads? From someone who consistently and repeatedly says nothing has pinged him? Wha?

In 624 you agree that you're lazy but vehemently deny that you sheep. Even though you are VERY wishy-washy on Flicker and say you see her as scum but won't push her cause Nancy is, and you say in 346 that you are a sheep.

And so your entire early game makes me think you're scum


BUT THEN

you completely change after you begin being a serious contender for a Lynch. You start asking questions, following up, leading. Why wasn't any of this prevalent before??? And when Nancy, who you considered pretty solid town with pretty solid influence, you go full on crazy and basically take Ice's viewpoint and go on an extreme, and really don't bring that kind of stuff after she unvotes you


I have to go now : (

[WhyMafia]

andddd I just convinced myself you're scum

[Micc]

Votecount 2.03

Eragon (3) -

OkaPoka, nancy, IcemanCh

OkaPoka (1) -

WhyMafia

Quick (1) -

Eragon

Not Voting (2) -

Quick, Formerfish

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2018-07-31 17:20:00).

[OkaPoka]

1) understand that early game has little information so your reads aren't going to be content driven or action based, its going to be based on tone and small things, and tone reads are weak but tone reads felt town early
2) understand that inaction and refusal to spice things up early leads to apathy and its a pretty good way to stall the game as scum so yes im going to scumread people that aren't talking much
3) ice blatantly said what he said, i don't need to delve and read between the lines when he outright states his gameplan for the IC
4) you are wrong, i pushed ice early, before town pressured me. i would disagree on your comment of my lack of proactivity, it is proactive to attack iceman early for his comments.
5) i had no question for trinity at the time because the only way she could prove to me she was town was by interacting with others and pushing something, show conviction. if i ask her questions she responds, which is reactive.
6) yes tone reads are flimsy and easy to ditch once more content and activity kicks in. early game reads are always in fluctuation, things happen and reads change

in fact i got grilled early for being aggro and attacking people. the second vote on me was from formerfish who said he didn't like my aggro play. so either you are wrong or formerfish is wrong.

also im not taking ice's viewpoint to an extreme, im moderating it in fact. ice wants us to lynch nancy if we have no strong reads coming into d3 while im just saying we shouldn't mark her as obv town because she is fully capable of playing this style as scum.

i guess my read on flicker was a bit sheepy, but the difference between scum sheep and town sheep is scum sheep just votes with the crowd while town sheep gets influenced by it but doesn't necessarily take action.

@micc there should be 3 on eragon

[Micc]

@micc there should be 3 on eragon

Fixed now. Thanks!

[Formerfish]

FF still manipulative as shit. He might be saying he wasn't deliberately trying to piss me off, but I def think he was and the fact he is trying to cover that up is really really bad to me.

At first I was trying to piss you off because your attitude during the whole "to read or not to read" debate was shitty.

Then nancy asked us to play nice and I said I would.

From then on out I have not been attempting in any way to piss you off deliberately. You may feel differently, and there is nothing I can say or do to change the way that you feel, because its all in your head and not real. Why would I defend you on your game play to someone else if I was trying to stir you up? Why is it that every time I bring up a decent point to you it gets ignored? Is that so you can continue the narrative that Im this big bad guy pushing you around and you are really the victim here?

[Formerfish]

@quick, what im saying is that there is an extremely sizeable chance that this scumread direction is wrong since there are three people doing your scumtell and only two of us have a chance at being scum.

But whatever, could you elaborate why drawing attention to the nk is scummy?

Pretty simple really. If you make a post that all it says is "I am so surprised by the NK" and nothing else, that's the distinction I am trying to make here. Both you and Eragon said some other content related thing besides just that you were surprised by the NK. Making a sole post all on its own saying you are surprised by the NK without any other content in the post shows you are intending to show your surprise for the NK and nothing more.

Eragon said more than "Oh I am surprised" and you had a vote with the comment, which you explained later. Because of this, I feel what NM did was much more Scummy than what either of you did regarding the NK.

I actually agree with this view as well. Its almost like he felt he had to say something about the nk but didnt want to push it to far since there wasnt much activity yet.

[Eragon]

I'm not really sure where to go from here. I have suspicions of Nancy... bet you could all predict that. I also still suspect Oka still. I really hate D2 because it's the day that everyone starts to look like scum to me.

VOTE: Oka

VOTE: Eragon

what happened here Ice?

you go from voting Oka, then without any progression you vote me directly after Nancy votes, and put me to L-1.

[Quick]

BUT THEN

you completely change after you begin being a serious contender for a Lynch. You start asking questions, following up, leading. Why wasn't any of this prevalent before??? And when Nancy, who you considered pretty solid town with pretty solid influence, you go full on crazy and basically take Ice's viewpoint and go on an extreme, and really don't bring that kind of stuff after she unvotes you


I have to go now : (

...you are wrong, i pushed ice early, before town pressured me. i would disagree on your comment of my lack of proactivity, it is proactive to attack iceman early for his comments....

in fact i got grilled early for being aggro and attacking people. the second vote on me was from formerfish who said he didn't like my aggro play. so either you are wrong or formerfish is wrong.

Clearly, someone is lying here (going to read up, I guess). What I initially think of this is that WM is a bit too strong here on Oka in that it's really God Damn easy to poke things that you weren't around for because you had no real involvement in the game at the time. Overall, WM's case on Oka is still mostly just a lot of buzzwords. Yes, he has some decent points about Oka, but only if they are true and things aren't open to interpretation. My gut tells me this is a Scum case WM is pulling and he's trying to distract from the pressure I put on him.

Also, I think it's pretty safe to assume WM and Oka are not SvS.

[Eragon]

think i null-scumread him because he wasnt doing much but didnt want to lynch him because vla business

nk makes me think its eragon tho for dumb and good reasons

so activity is AI?

Dumb reasons:

whoever killed flicker probably wasnt paying too much attention
eragon was kinda active on other forum

good reasons:

seemed like nancy was convinced in flicker/eragon team, killing flicker might clear eragon from his perspective
hindsight makes his trinity read kinda lazy, didn't really push her
in fact i dont think eragon did much interactions, just commenting and going

Lol @paying attention.
I was semi-active here during the nights and I was on at EoD(when I voted and stuff) and I had made reads on flicker the whole day.
plus, putting that out there is unnecessary shade
(yes, I see "dumb" reasons, just responding anyways)

how does that work? Me killing someone someone thinks im team with does nothing.
Team-based reads isnt the only way to find scum...

(last sentence see below)

I don't like Nancy near the end of D1. She seemed kinda strange about the wagons, and it rubbed me the wrong way. I don't like her shifting of wagons, and wishy-washiness, so close to deadline. I feel like Oka's reasoning is relatively weak, and made to explain his NK on Flicker to get Eragon dead.

I want to see what Eragon is like today though.

I hope to be much more active and contentful
as I've said before I'm trying to not be to confrontatonal and take my game down a notch, but with late-game comes more confidence, so im hoping to be able to provide good content, pushes, reads, etc... while staying under a level head.
(this apples for Oka's post too)

[Quick]

I'm not really sure where to go from here. I have suspicions of Nancy... bet you could all predict that. I also still suspect Oka still. I really hate D2 because it's the day that everyone starts to look like scum to me.

VOTE: Oka

VOTE: Eragon

what happened here Ice?

you go from voting Oka, then without any progression you vote me directly after Nancy votes, and put me to L-1.

What do you actually think of the points made against you made by other people? I feel like you are not addressing them, just like WM is doing against me, just like nancy is doing against me, just like I am doing to you... OK this game is kinda fucked up rn...

I'll get to addressing my case on you shortly.

P-Edit: Ninja'd I guess.

[Eragon]

I hate how Oka waggled out of a Lynch multiple times ... when nobody really addressed how he ws town (correct me if I'm wrong)
@people who went away from Oka - can you re-itterate why?

its because I had a stronger SR on Quick and Trinity.
(I know its not directed at me b/c I was never on Oka but Im responding to why I didnt vote Oka)

Oka, scum could easily have been afraid to scumread you because you were so busy in thread and willing to go up against anyone.

I'll talk about the nk after Quick does.

Vote: Eragon

elaborate please?

See Oka, all that VCA you did? It's all predicated under the fact you're town, and the results from the VCA confused tf out of me. See, that analysis logically would make sense if you were scum and the wagons got manipulated to switch to trinity. But in that case, I'm still confused bc I can't see who you're partner would be.

I mind meld with this a lot.

I'm not really sure where to go from here. I have suspicions of Nancy... bet you could all predict that. I also still suspect Oka still. I really hate D2 because it's the day that everyone starts to look like scum to me.

VOTE: Oka

VOTE: Eragon

what happened here Ice?

you go from voting Oka, then without any progression you vote me directly after Nancy votes, and put me to L-1.

What do you actually think of the points made against you made by other people? I feel like you are not addressing them, just like WM is doing against me, just like nancy is doing against me, just like I am doing to you... OK this game is kinda fucked up rn...

I'll get to addressing my case on you shortly.

P-Edit: Ninja'd I guess.

so far I haven't seen many points against me.

correct me if im wrong
main reasons are
Activity-which is normally NAI?
Not throwing down a vote- explained
Not conflicting- explained and am gonna be better about pushing/content while not being argumentative
Night kill- previous post.

[OkaPoka]

is it safe to assume that nancy is a rational and optimal player?

[OkaPoka]

UNVOTE:

im going to recalibrate some reads

[Eragon]

if I get your question right, yes

[Quick]

God this is such a chore to respond to...

your point?

Just thought it was interesting that you were agreeing with me there. People don't usually "agree" with others reasoning. It's usually just taken into account passively. This is probably NAI.

*side not* I meant post, not vote
{bolded points in post}
basically an OMGUS
A bit of shade

from a bit of experience, when people say "there isnt a legitimate reason to SR me" I more often find that flips scum than town

I agree that most of the time that when people say "I am not Scummy and you can't prove I am" (or something to that effect) it comes from Scum. I am not everyone and my mind works differently than other people's and I have said basically that exact thing many times as Town because I want to keep Town honest and keep them from naked voting (like Ice is doing RN) or just not providing good reasons for much of anything at all. Going to give this a Null/Town read for this comment.

then whats that

I think you missed the part about me saying FF hasn't really hit any Town tells.

I guess I did jump the gun there a bit, I just overall didnt like the feel of the progression off the SR.

My read on Ice is noob town and your scum motivation for changing the read is so that you dont get pushed if he flips town

I'm reading this as a Scum Lean comment. IDK why you think I am planning on Ice flipping at this point.

I dont like it b/c mafia probably has a pretty good idea of what the role list is, so they know if they are pretty much safe from being caught by a PR.

in that case, you would say "Let pr's deal with him" to make sure that he will live for another few days, while you can possibly kill the PRs

Wut? AFAIK, Scum can't only be certain of the setup once a PR has been lynched. Also not getting how I am planning to kill the PR's without knowing who they are???

This part leaves me really fucking confused because I legit have no idea how you got from point A to point B.

just a passing thought. put your readlist here to mark it down, and commented "fair" because the last sentence.
Cant justify, flicker category, Eragon scummiest. etc...

So are you reading that as Townie or Scummy?

so angleshooting? Also yuck

As far as I am concerned, if it's public info, it's fair game as long as you are not talking about other ongoing games.

does it matter how many? Do I need to find 2 + wolfy 180's before you'll admit to being scum?

You said "some people." Some people isn't one, it's more than one. Scum lean on this.

buddying = S v S no?

No, buddying is Pocketing or trying to cozy up to a Town member as Scum so they TR you back

its not Scummy ONLY against a newbie...

Well then WTF is your point?

No.

I am actually really surprised you said this. I almost want to call Bull Shit.

Overall, Lean Scum here. I still think WM is Scummier, but going to watch Eragon more closely now.

[nancy]

Unvote

Jesus don't put people to L-1 this early, and announce it please.

[Micc]

WhyMafia has requested replacement.

[nancy]

Whaaaaat why, don't leave me

[Quick]

is it safe to assume that nancy is a rational and optimal player?

This is a very good question and I am not sure of the answer. Probably a bit of both emotional and optimal.