Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[skitter30]

bv ur being very quiet and it's actually low-key disconcerting me

i shall now try to look at votecounts

I don't have much to add at this point. I made my decision and I was right. Just waiting for you and Keyser to make yours. I asked if you wanted to talk in real time and you said you were thinking aloud so I'm just letting you solve. If you were expecting like a case on errant/towncase on me, I did these already last DP. Errant hasn't said anything in response.

Fair enough!

[skitter30]

will respond tonight, I have a final

Good luck!

[skitter30]

Nauci on the other hand hard-townreads skitter but I found it really curious that she never asks skitter why she's townreading me or scumreading Irrelephant. She's just going along with her convenient reads of me-scum and Irrelephant-town while continuing to go on about how mind-meld she and skitter have been. If Nauci was town, there would at least be a "why are you townreading BV?" I don't feel like she's listening to both viewpoints to make a decision but just sheeping Irrelephant because that's the convenient read.

picking up on this is incredibly townie too given nauci's results at that stage

[skitter30]

bv i'm really just getting the vibe that you want to push this lynch through?

Yeah, I want to push N_M through. Maybe I'm not playing completely optimally by not going through an extensive analysis of clearing Gustavo before I do it. I think it's ridiculous people are actually voting me over him and I'd hate to give this scumteam a free mislynch on me even if they wind up losing.

I haven't read the game closely enough to see what the context is. But N_M's posts here just gave me the impression that he knows he's caught and the game is done so might as well get lynched and move onto the next one.

Is there anyone I should be seriously considering outside of N_M?

pushign the nm lynch through is still low-key bothering me tho

[skitter30]

2926 - This is the strongest towntell that I referred to earlier. Rask gave both of them an out by asking Errant if he was claiming TheWorst's result for him. Errant immediately confirms that it's not and revotes TheWorst. The "panic" that he was referring to earlier also feels genuine. That it all happened in a minute is another reason.

i'm now thinking that the 'panic' is that they thought bernie saw through their plan

[skitter30]

also looking back a lot of what i was townreading ep yesterday for was kinda AtE

and i'm really bad at reading that

like bv's kinda town in a holistic sense and ep has a few pockets of incredible towniness and then large swaths of NAI-ness

[skitter30]

I think I've said most of what I wanted to say on Errant so just waiting on Keyser and Skitter at this point. (Hope you feel better btw skitter).

One thing I wanted to point out though is to not underestimate what scum are capable of regarding neighborhoods. In a game I modded, I gave scum a neighborizer. He neighborized his partner and had a detailed 2-page conversation with him before he neighborized a townie. It was all really authentic-sounding. Here's the link. If scum can fake that level of neighborhood planning, I wouldn't put it past even an average scum player to post an authentic sounding "paraphrase" of a fake conversation.

i actually think it's harder to paraphrase a convo that didn't happen than to go through the motions of having an actual conversation

[skitter30]

like bv's kinda town in a holistic sense and ep has a few pockets of incredible towniness and then large swaths of NAI-ness

ok this is basically where i'm at

i think i'm voting ep, but i think he should have a chance to say what he wants to after his final because it could just be he had a very busy few days. that's probably a generous read of the situation but eh studying for finals can be kinda stressful and eat up large chunks of time and i can understand lylo not being a super high priority in that real-life context, and i can say from experience that getting hammered in lylo on the last day of finals week to lose the game when i hadn't slept in like three days before really having a chance to post kinda sucks

so basically i'll wait till tomorrow at some point to give him a chance to say his piece

i also think i want to check his voting patterns in past games if i get around to finding them

[Errantparabola]

My final is 7-10PM PST on Thursday. Feel free to end it before then but this game is not a priority until after that.

i will prob be voting ep since i think bv is prob out of his scumrange - ep if you have any compelling reason why i oughtn't do that let me know

I think this LYLO has been about pressuring me and letting BV coast which is really really bad and gamelosing and I think that I (subjectively) have been way out of my scumrange since the early game as well. The thing is, yeah, I have compelling reasons that I personally think just make me objectively town but how can I present them in a way that doesn't seem disingenuous? At this point everyone is operating from the standpoint that I'm scum so if I say "well this is a thing that I've done that's town" and you'll go, "aha! So as self-aware scum, that was fakeable!"

on day3 he's calling tw's pr soft 'the elephant in the room' day2 when i don't think it was that obvious or important or relevant day2 (the other person who called major attention to the softing thing was interestingly mom

I'm not going to go back and make sure that this all actually happened, but I remember that the reason I said that was because I noticed that both Bernie and Nauci had picked up on the same thing. And I think I alluded to that at some point on D2.

From D1:

No longer townreading worst.

I still don’t know why you neighbourized TheWorst... you may have explained before, but nothing has resonated with me yet.

Why not choose to share a town pt with one of your strong town reads?

Here's the thing. You're putting more thought into it than I did. And I've said that, yeah, I don't really know. I didn't think about who I neighborized that carefully. As shameful as this sounds I (and really the majority of people) don't really strive to maintain a coherent thought process in a game and as objectively scummy whatever inconsistency appears, it happens, and it happens all the time. I've said this multiple times before and I don't know why you expect me to suddenly come up with a better explanation right now.

If scum can fake that level of neighborhood planning, I wouldn't put it past even an average scum player to post an authentic sounding "paraphrase" of a fake conversation.

A town BV who believed that both Gustavo and I had a chance of being scum on D4 would have brought this up yesterday and questioned me or someone one it instead of saving it for LYLO.

@ep: what were u thinking day2 after tw softed pr after you neighborized him

Generally I remember thinking that the worst was scummy but had a good chance of a PR. I did genuinely think it was obvious. Either Bernie was hinting that he saw the same things or I misconstrued him doing that. I can check back at some point. I hinted at being conflicted about the worst multiple times. I don't know when this was but Nauci pointed out that worst had a scum meta of fakeclaiming PR (maybe that was on Day 3?) and that sealed the deal.

if bs hadn't intervened i think tw was hoping to get bv lynched and like ... tw doesn't expect to believe to survive to endgame on that i think

I mean, yeah. This was what I thought yesterday. Basically my working argument is that the worst was really lazy about it, just repeating the same thing over and over again and perhaps that was in an attempt to come across as scummier so he gets lynched

Scummy stunt who knows Skitter is town, and knows Skitter won't quickhammer.

If that's your interpretation then fine, but I have made it clear that I think that if skitter is scum we've lost the game. If skitter was scum then we'd titter about it for a couple days before mislynching and losing anyway. I knew I was going to get chewed out if that was the case but I yeah, you could say that I knew Skitter was the town because I have been pretty damn sure of it.

So what was your gameplan... don't get involved with the misslynches too hard... gain some towncred via the neighborizor claim... then survive til the end?
Tell me why I shouldn't believe in this narrative.

You're expecting me to have an inflated sense of my own survivability. I rarely make it to endgame as scum, or as unconfirmed town. I don't have staying power. I'm a lurker at heart. But again, asking me to justify my towniness is a losing battle on my end. I've accepted that whatever it is, my playstyle, my general activity, my lack of skill, BV's towniness, creates a gamestate that's just incredibly difficult to reverse and I've pretty much thought that since D4.

@ep: do you tend to vote a lot as town?

No. I don't vote that much as scum either, but who knows? I've had one scumgame in the past million years.
I **believe** these are my most recent towngames.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=74559
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=74689

will respond tonight, I have a final

Good luck!

Thank you

i think i'm voting ep, but i think he should have a chance to say what he wants to after his final because it could just be he had a very busy few days. that's probably a generous read of the situation but eh studying for finals can be kinda stressful and eat up large chunks of time

Trust me I am physically and mentally dying, my friend

[BlackVoid]

Errant saying that I'm coasting is bullshit. He's the one who has been coasting all through D5 and today. Him having a final is fair but he's been pretty low key for a rather long time. He can't say what the compelling reasons he's town are because he isn't town, and just because scum can be self-aware doesn't mean they can replicate their towngame. His "doomsday" attitude is also indicative of scum. Even if everyone concluded that he's scum, actual town who knows that they are wrong would have an easier time explaining why simply because it's the truth. The "I didn't think about who I neighborized" feels like a blanket defense to pre-empt any inconsistencies. It's hard to believe that he didn't put thought into who he was going to converse with outside of the game thread.

Errant's argument that TheWorst was trying to look scummy is a stretch considering how hard TheWorst was trying to swing a lynch on me and appealing to Rask to switch over. Also, TheWorst claiming after I said I was leaving for work is actually pretty clearing for me because it only makes sense if he wanted a townie lynched with minimal resistance as opposed to wanting to theater it up with a buddy. (He couldn't have done it just so I look good obviously because the intent would have been my lynch, not his own. Rask's result caused his plan to fail.)

Errant voting himself to confirm skitter is scummy on a different level. Before Gustavo's lynch, he called both me and skitter town. But afterwards, he spent no time or effort figuring out which of me or skitter are scum. Sure, his townread on skitter was always stronger but from someone with the worldview he claimed to have, town spends some time looking at both options before making his decision. "Even if skitter is scum, we have lost" is not a town attitude to take in LYLO.

He also hasn't refuted Keyser's narrative which is accurate by explaining his actions from a town POV because there isn't one. Just ATE on how he's not skilled and how townie I am (lol, he doesn't even deny that I'm very town).

@skitter, I talked about the N_M lynch a bit before. I'm sure we would agree that pushing a lynch by itself is not scummy. Your issue seems to be that you think I'm always a cautious player and this would be uncharacteristic/outside my townrange. It isn't. You haven't seen my full townrange in the three games we played together and I have pushed lynches hard and in a somewhat similar manner before. I linked you the example too.

[skitter30]

Ok this actually isnt hammer because keyser hasn't voted but

VOTE: errant

Overall I just think bv is townier in a holistic sense

Bv if you're actually scum here I'm like never going to be able confidentially read you again lol

Ep, if you're town, sorry

If you're scum - you played an incredibly good game and like the way you interacted with tw during the neighborhood/guilty thing felt town af so that's actually really impressive.

Also I wish you luck on your final, what's it in?

Also I've kinda had the vibe for a while now that you weren't really enjoying this game and I hope I didn't like super contribute to that

[skitter30]

Also, TheWorst claiming after I said I was leaving for work is actually pretty clearing for me because it only makes sense if he wanted a townie lynched with minimal resistance as opposed to wanting to theater it up with a buddy. (He couldn't have done it just so I look good obviously because the intent would have been my lynch, not his own. Rask's result caused his plan to fail.)

I'd have to go back and look at the timestamps but tbf to duckling he's in Australia so hed be getting up around the time you head to work I think so idk if this is like malicious on his part

I do however remember ep having a post noting that tw was online and ignoring our requests that he out the result tho

Also they didn't have daytalk at this point so idk if they'd have been able to coordinate that super well

[skitter30]

Gah I think keyser is in some non-american timezone and he tends to post late at night and early morning for those of us in PST (all 3 of us it looks like) so I wont know the result till i wake up tomorrow probably

[brassherald]

You won't know the result of a lynch if someone hammers tonight anyway, because I am EST, and going to bed.

[skitter30]

I know

But bv tends to be around late in PST and I think hed just say if he won as scum after ep got hammered

And have a great night!

[Errantparabola]

Ep, if you're town, sorry

Honestly, don't be. If I failed to convince both you and Keyser, well, that's not on the both of you, that's my own shortcomings as a player.

Also I wish you luck on your final, what's it in?

Computer Architecture!

Also I've kinda had the vibe for a while now that you weren't really enjoying this game and I hope I didn't like super contribute to that

Happens in every game eventually. And you're not contributing to it at all. I wasn't lying when I said this was one of the best playerlists I've ever played with, and honestly you and Irrelephant are the spearheads (is that the right word?) of that.

[Keyser Söze]

yeah
VOTE: BV

Should I wait for your case on BV... or do you want to end the game here?

[skitter30]

ep, in case ur wondering, the main reasons why i'm voting you now are:

1. bv is just townier in a holistic sense

2. i feel like for the past couple of days you've sorta taken a back seat and have just been letting mislynches happen without really being around that much. i acknowledge that this might be an irl/motivation/enjoyment thing but it's kinda at odds with the one scumread you were fairly confident on - tw; overall i kinda got the vibe that you were comfortable being confident about tw (and mom) to a certain extent because you knew they'd flip scum

3. the hammer-test via self vote in mylo is just icky and i don't really see that coming from a town mindset

4. i feel like you've just kinda resigned yourself ot being the mylo lynch a few days back and that you're just letting it happen (tbf this might not be ai, idk)

5. a lot of the things i was townreading you for yesterday in retrospect were kinda ate and rereading them now i don't get those town vibes really

6. i feel like using the 'i'm not going to defend myself in lylo because it will seem disingenuous' line is kinda disingenuous itself

[BlackVoid]

Excited about winning especially after losing my last two towngames. Whenever you are ready, Keyser.

[brassherald]

FDR had such a successful first 100 days in office, that he is actually why the media now reviews the first 100 days of a presidency.

VoteCount 6.03

Errantparabola (2)

~ BlackVoid, skitter30

BlackVoid (1)

~ Errantparabola

Not Voting (1)

~ Keyser Soze
With 4 alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch.

Day 6 ends in (expired on 2018-08-15 22:00:00)

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Errantparabola

[brassherald]

Sometimes there is no trivia in this location. This trivia is not really presidential.

VoteCount 6.Final

Errantparabola (3)

~ BlackVoid, skitter30, Keyser Soze

BlackVoid (1)

~ Errantparabola

A lynch has been achieved

End Day 6

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, wonderful news the Fox Party has been eliminate from the competition with the candidates voting off Errantparabola. Errant was paired with Andrew Jackson,

Mafia Odd Night Roleblocker

. With that the candidates all began working towards the same goal of electing a president. Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson will be our newest president.

Spoiler: rolecard

Andrew Jackson

Welcome,

NorthSideGal

Errantparabola! You are an angry man, and as such you are paired with the clone of Andrew Jackson,

Mafia Odd-Night Roleblocker.

Factional Communication: Each night phase, you may talk to your group here

Man, were you angry with how long this DNA matching process took, you scared someone so much when you were yelling at them that they permanently were unable to clone John Quincy Adams, that would be a safe claim.

Abilities:

Old Hickory:

Andrew Jackson was mean and tough, on any odd numbered night phase, you may target another player in the game to attempt to block them from performing any night actions.

"Peace, above all things, is to be desired, but blood must sometimes be spilled to obtain it on equable and lasting terms.":

Each night phase, you may send a member of your group to target another player in the game, attempting to kill them. You may not commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night unless you are the last remaining member of your faction.

Win Conditions:

"Take time to deliberate; but when the time for action arrives, stop thinking and go in.":

You win if at least half of the living players are mafia (or if nothing can prevent the same).
Please confirm your role through a PM of your alignment and role.

[brassherald]

Congratulations to the town on your win.

On a personal note, I was thoroughly impressed with the play of the mafia team after two replace outs and hitting the 1 Shot BP Night 1.

PTs will be released so long as no one asks me to remove any posts or anything within the next 24 hours. Thanks for playing.

[the worst]

well played skitter30, best scum buddy ever!

[the worst]

.....wait no what