[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[Slaxx]

Maybe if you took away scum knowing which two cops were in and forced them to guess as well.

[northsidegal]

i like that idea, both in terms of the setup and the flavor.

i think you should make a setup thread about this.

[Jingle]

Travelling Desperados

6 VT
1 Role-Replicating 'Desperado'

3 Goon

If the Role Replicating 'Desperado' targets scum, the scum player dies. If they target town, they die and their target becomes a Role Replicating Desperado. Targets are submitted via PM.

[mhsmith0]

sounds like popcorn mafia except more townsided

[callforjudgement]

What's the day/night cycle like? In particular, how does the timing work on Desperado shots; if a player gets the role replicated onto them during the Day, can they shoot immediately that Day? If a player shoots scum, can they shoot again that Day or do they have to wait for night first?

The setup reminds me somewhat of Popcorn Mafia. The numbers you need will depend on the exact behaviour of the day/night mechanics.

[Jingle]

Day/Night would function normally. Each desperado would have a choice of trying to get their targets lynched normally or outing themselves to shoot. A desperado would functionally never be able to be lynched because they could always just shoot before the hammer, but they could be nightkilled.

If someone shoots scum they can't use the power again that day. A new desperado can use the power the same day though.

[callforjudgement]

OK, so this is basically equivalent to Popcorn Mafia except that after hitting scum, town get a chance to make a regular lynch in addition to the Desperado kills – but that if scum hit the Desperado overNight, the setup becomes vanilla. As such, it seems likely to be more townsided than but swingier than the original; I think regular Popcorn Mafia would probably be more fun.

[Jingle]

Having now read the setup for popcorn mafia, I'd argue it's sufficiently different on the grounds that the mafia have no influence on who controls the daykills, town is still capable of lynching, and it's important for the Desperado to keep themselves hidden.

I kind of agree that the setup isn't very necessary as there is a similar one already existing, though.

[callforjudgement]

I'm considering running Lynchpin with 9 townies and 3 scum.

As this has more than 9 players, and it hasn't been run at these numbers before, it needs approval. Does anyone have objections to putting it in the queue?

[BBmolla]

Paris Mafia recently ended in a draw with 1 mime, 1 mafia, 1 townie. This should either be a Mafia or Mime win, it sucks as a draw. I'm leaning Mime just because I think winning as Mime is hard in that setup.

It's not a relevant setup anymore really, but Kill All Townies should have Loyal modifiers added to Doctors. Wanted to double check with ya'll before I do so.


I'm fine with the above post fwiw.

[Not Known 15]

Paris Mafia recently ended in a draw with 1 mime, 1 mafia, 1 townie. This should either be a Mafia or Mime win, it sucks as a draw. I'm leaning Mime just because I think winning as Mime is hard in that setup.

It's not a relevant setup anymore really, but Kill All Townies should have Loyal modifiers added to Doctors. Wanted to double check with ya'll before I do so.


I'm fine with the above post fwiw.

Paris Mafia:
It actually depends BBmolla. I think the Mimes should also win if one of them has been lynched and the other one is alive

alone

or in a 1v1v1 without a Vig. With this:
If the town left is a Watcher or a Townie the game should end in a Mime win if the other Mime was lynched and in a Mafia win if not(because Mime is very difficult).
If the town left is a Vigilante the game should continue into the next night with a No Lynch(no one is able to lynch without gamethrowing)
Mime does nothing, Vigilante and Mafia shoot Mime - D R A W - only the Vig and the Mafia are alive -
Mime does nothing, Vig and Mafia shoot each other - Mime win(if the other Mime was not lynched, Draw)
Mime does nothing, Vig shoots Mafia, Mafia shoots Mime - Town win
Mime does nothing, Vig shoots Mime, Mafia shoots Vig - Mafia win
Because the setup is open it should be obvious when this happens.

[Jingle]

As written, the crossshoot endgame would be a townwin. Town doesn't need to have a player left alive to win.

And I'm fine with Mime winning Vig/Mafia/Mime despite the fact that the game could technically end in a different way because it's very unlikely to happen AND if it does the mime probably deserves the win for dodging multiple nightkills for however long it took to get to a 3p LYLO. If you let day start with 1v1v1 Mime cannot win, and it sucks to have a player who can't win in a game.

Also, it's impossible to have a 1v1v1 LYLO without a mime lynch. If a mime is shot, they both leave the game.

Also, A 0v2v1 should autoend in a mafia win because while mimes have majority they can't lynch both of themselves before the mafia nks. This should probably never happen, but I just realized it's technically possible.

[Not Known 15]

Also, A 0v2v1 should autoend in a mafia win because while mimes have majority they can't lynch both of themselves before the mafia nks. This should probably never happen, but I just realized it's technically possible.

Nope, the Mafia can be continuously blocked by the Mime roleblock.

[Not Known 15]

If a mime is shot, they both leave the game.

According to the Wiki page, no - they remain as kingmaker.

[Jingle]

Huh. That should be fixed, because a player who cannot win remaining in the game shouldn't ever be a thing.

[Jingle]

Also, A 0v2v1 should autoend in a mafia win because while mimes have majority they can't lynch both of themselves before the mafia nks. This should probably never happen, but I just realized it's technically possible.

Nope, the Mafia can be continuously blocked by the Mime roleblock.

Yup. And lynch Mime #1, mafia have parity and win.

[BBmolla]

As written, the crossshoot endgame would be a townwin. Town doesn't need to have a player left alive to win.

And I'm fine with Mime winning Vig/Mafia/Mime despite the fact that the game could technically end in a different way because it's very unlikely to happen AND if it does the mime probably deserves the win for dodging multiple nightkills for however long it took to get to a 3p LYLO. If you let day start with 1v1v1 Mime cannot win, and it sucks to have a player who can't win in a game.

Also, it's impossible to have a 1v1v1 LYLO without a mime lynch. If a mime is shot, they both leave the game.

Also, A 0v2v1 should autoend in a mafia win because while mimes have majority they can't lynch both of themselves before the mafia nks. This should probably never happen, but I just realized it's technically possible.

If a day begins with 0v2v1 (2 being mimes) in theory it’d play out like this

Day 1: Mimes have not met win condition (both not lynched)
Mafia has not met win condition (something is stopping them from being a threat to town even though town is dead)
Mimes lynch Maf

Day 2: Mimes lynch Mime A

Day 3: Mime B self votes to win

[BBmolla]

Either:
Mime should sui if partner dies

OR

Change to version where Mime must match death of other Mime. If Mime A is nightkilled, Mime B must be nightkilled. If Mime A is lynched, Mime B must be lynched.

[BBmolla]

Having 0v2v1 end in mafia victory definitely gives Mimes a sort of survivor wincon which is sort of bad.

If we make Mafias wincon to match or exceed town, regardless of Mimes left, this would get rid of these kingmaker scenarios.

I’m in favor of
0v2v1 = Mafia Vic
1v1v1 = Mime Vic
Personally

[Jingle]

Agreed. And 0v2v1 should be a mafia win, because the second mime lynch is impossible. 0v1v1 can only end in no lynch no kill cycles if the game is continued.

[Jingle]

Change to version where Mime must match death of other Mime. If Mime A is nightkilled, Mime B must be nightkilled.

If this isn't the fix, this actually might be a good basis for a discrete setup.

[Not Known 15]

Also, A 0v2v1 should autoend in a mafia win because while mimes have majority they can't lynch both of themselves before the mafia nks. This should probably never happen, but I just realized it's technically possible.

Nope, the Mafia can be continuously blocked by the Mime roleblock.

Yup. And lynch Mime #1, mafia have parity and win.

The mafia win condition:

You win when only Goons are alive.

Parity is not enough, and as you already discovered, town actually wins when everyone is dead. And because Mafia has the easiest win condition in that setup the setup should not be changed to favor Mafia.

[Not Known 15]

Agreed. And 0v2v1 should be a mafia win, because the second mime lynch is impossible. 0v1v1 can only end in no lynch no kill cycles if the game is continued.

Actually when the Mimes have majority they can theoretically lynch the rest and then themselves.

[Jingle]

Nope. Mafia lynch ends the game in town's favor. Mimes lose if they lynch the last mafia. God this is a wonky setup.

[BBmolla]

Agreed. And 0v2v1 should be a mafia win, because the second mime lynch is impossible. 0v1v1 can only end in no lynch no kill cycles if the game is continued.

You lynch mafia first then Mimes lynch each other