Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

[Sushi Martyr]

Okay, I'm here, sorry for that.

@Menalque, don't hammer yet.

Sushi is being scummy atm as hell because, contrary to what i'm getting from creeper, he's playing knowledgeably and he's strongly buddying with me - meaning he heavily disagrees with you at this point - yet he's not willing to go along with my calls and he's also ignoring everyone just like you are BUT he isn't emotional about it. Seems to me that he can be mafia, unwilling to hammer and waiting for the town to do his job. The possibilty of a teacher-sushi team is growing in my mind.

I don't entirely know how to respond to this, to be honest. As far as the "ignoring everyone" part goes, I haven't looked at everyone/interacted with everyone-- that's fair. I'd like a chance to do that before you condemn me though. I just read your posts on that page (381, 384, and 392 in particular) and they seemed townie to me, so I wanted to say something about that at that time because it looked like everyone else was scumreading you.

pedit: Also, not going along with you can still happen even if I think you're town. You're scumreading teacher, but he's someone I need more time on; in the game we played together (Newbie 1938), I had a slight scumread on him pretty much until he got mislynched as Doctor. I don't want that to happen again if he's town this game.

[Sushi Martyr]

Oh, and I'm female, I was going to add that at the end but forgot.

[Farkran]

L-x is a way to convey how far away a player is away from a lynch. For example, you should always announce that you are putting someone at L-1 (1 vote away from a lynch) so that someone doesn’t come along and accidentally vote for that players lynch. This also prevents Mafia-aligned players from coming along and placing the final vote to lynch (“hammer”) and claiming ignorance about doing so.

Menalque wouldn't have claimed ignorance, he would have claimed i was playing like shit and got pissed about me do he ragehammered. Talking from experience, happened a million times and most people got away with it due to newbie shielding

[emps]

mena isnt a true newbie, ive played with him before and im pretty sure he has enough completed games to in as an SE.

what hellhole of a site did you come from?????

[emps]

also please just for the love of god claim stop stalling

[Farkran]

Okay, I'm here, sorry for that.

@Menalque, don't hammer yet.

Sushi is being scummy atm as hell because, contrary to what i'm getting from creeper, he's playing knowledgeably and he's strongly buddying with me - meaning he heavily disagrees with you at this point - yet he's not willing to go along with my calls and he's also ignoring everyone just like you are BUT he isn't emotional about it. Seems to me that he can be mafia, unwilling to hammer and waiting for the town to do his job. The possibilty of a teacher-sushi team is growing in my mind.

I don't entirely know how to respond to this, to be honest. As far as the "ignoring everyone" part goes, I haven't looked at everyone/interacted with everyone-- that's fair. I'd like a chance to do that before you condemn me though. I just read your posts on that page (381, 384, and 392 in particular) and they seemed townie to me, so I wanted to say something about that at that time because it looked like everyone else was scumreading you.

pedit: Also, not going along with you can still happen even if I think you're town. You're scumreading teacher, but he's someone I need more time on; in the game we played together (Newbie 1938), I had a slight scumread on him pretty much until he got mislynched as Doctor. I don't want that to happen again if he's town this game.

Welcome back, feel free to take your time. Teacher also screamed town PR to me since game start, which is also another major reason for me doubting him.

[emps]

claim ur fucking role dont pr spec other people reeeee

[EpicCreeper9002]

deep into things the same way you guys do. I probably just need to try harder, but maybe it's not my thing.

As for Farkran not claiming, I don't really read that either way. I don't really see it as a valid play from either town or scum. I think he has a reason for it, but I have no idea what that could be.

Talk to me of this mysterious beast named "Chat Mafia"

Do they have games there?

How are they solved?

"not my thing" seems like an odd deflection from someone who actually knew what mafia was like. Does your home planet rely mostly on PR/PoE play or?

Mechanically, games are mostly the same. It's just the fact that here, we have so much more time to discuss, analyze posts, etc. Deadlines are measured in days instead of minutes. I've been assuming that makes a massive difference in play, but thinking about it, I guess it's not so different after all. I also realize now that the way I brought up my past was a bit misleading - I have a lot of experience, but that doesn't make me any better at the game. There are people from PS (that's my homeworld) who analyze things just as well as people here. Maybe the problem is I've been comparing everyone on this site to myself rather than other players from PS.

There's a mix of themes that we play there. Two of the most prevalent themes are Greater Idea and Modified Execution (where instead of voting who to lynch, you vote for who gets a kill during twilight; Mafia "corrupts" players instead of killing - if a corrupted player gets the gun, they die). GI is more role madness-y and ModExe is one of the most analysis-heavy themes we play. There's a pretty wide range of themes. The biggest difference is that the majority of games are Open Setups, often pulled from the wiki here.


Anyways, I'll probably only be here today for a few more minutes. It just seems important to let people know that I won't be active. I'm still a bit reluctant on Farkran hammer, but if a lot of others agree, I won't stop you. Lastly, thanks for answering my questions about participation - I'll try to read over things again in the morning.

[teacher]

accused people are refusing to answer

Kindly point me to anything I have refused to answer?

See my post 391. Also please give your educated opinion of sushi, including details.

(Out of game: Writing from mobile so forgive me if i have an hard time using url quotes)

OK, first issue: If you have a question for a slot, direct it. 391 was a rambling diatribe on Emps, me, Creeper, sushi, and ends with "Thoughts?" Thats not me refusing to answer a question.

Second, I think you are scumreading me, a town. For reasons you havent disclosed. I think you havent asked any questions of me or otherwise tried to flesh out your read of me, or of anyone else, until now. Which makes me feel like you auto-piloted on me -- the same way I feel like you have been manipulating your reads of other slots to see what would help you best survive.

Third, on Sushi - she is a hard slot for me to read generally. Here, I have strong gut hard town pings. Trying to rationalize it into words makes it weaker tbh, but there are reasons there. First, she did the same thread greeting as you in 32. But unlike you, with her, I townread it because she has experience with the site meta and could be using it to evaluate the board. Second, I melded on her early read of your play. Third, her answers and self-meta in 120 are remarkably accurate, and consistent with how she has approached the game. Fourth, while her posting style has been slightly more conversant this game, the same cautious mentality is there as well -- a player who is playing v consistently with my expectation of them is one I think did hit the probability of rolling town. The several clarification questions are likewise consistent with my expectation of a polite, cautious hunter who tries to understand minds (e.g. 201, 216, 217, 220, 274). OVerall fairly strong town.

Finally, since its late enough in the day - intent is floating - I will share my readslist in full:
Emps
Sushi-Spam
Skit Selynee
Menalque
Creeper
Farkhan

[Farkran]

mena isnt a true newbie, ive played with him before and im pretty sure he has enough completed games to in as an SE.

what hellhole of a site did you come from?????

For the sake of understanding my point of view, i'll explain more in detail where i come from. That might be useful after all.

Back in the days we used to play setups with way more people (15+ was usual), with game days taking 2 irl days, that may be an involuntary reason for me to act so fast pacely.

It was also customary to rerandomize all forum nicknames to avoid metaplay (i.e. you wouldn't see me as Farkran, i would have some randomly generated name so you wouldn't be able to metaread me until you discovered my true identity)

Multiple evil factions were also the norm, playing double mafia teams vs town or mafia vs cult vs town, or adding more enemy neutral roles such as the serial killer or jester.

We used to have a [lastwill] command that you would PM to the mod. This was the ONLY legit way to communicate to other people after dying - no twilight, no bahs, etc. Anyone speaking after the hammer vote would have been warned for dirty play.

[teacher]

L-x is a way to convey how far away a player is away from a lynch. For example, you should always announce that you are putting someone at L-1 (1 vote away from a lynch) so that someone doesn’t come along and accidentally vote for that players lynch. This also prevents Mafia-aligned players from coming along and placing the final vote to lynch (“hammer”) and claiming ignorance about doing so.

Menalque wouldn't have claimed ignorance, he would have claimed i was playing like shit and got pissed about me do he ragehammered. Talking from experience, happened a million times and most people got away with it due to newbie shielding

Lolhammers are a pretty great way to hop into the next-days spotlight, whether on P 6 or 19. Doing it proper actually tends to avoid the focus.

Part of doing it proper requires the wagon target to claim. There really isnt a good reason to stall that out, regardless of your role. There is a reason this is longstanding site practice, observed by all players -- it benefits town.

[emps]

claim ur fucking role

[skitter30]

a) Discussion is what really brings out all of the posts people analyze. It's progressing the game in its purest form
b) Honestly I think the sheer amount of posts is getting to me and I haven't really looked into things. That's probably my fault

i mean, i'm not sure why you're singling out farkfran as being someone who should be townread for generating discussion - like i think this reason could be applied to menalque, too, say, but you're not calling out a townread on him

i feel like you're looking for reasons to townread them

[skitter30]

ok catching up now!

dont make it a wallpost

please oh god dont do this to me

they made it more than just a wallpost oh god no multiple wallposts

eh i can do spam instead, either or

i tend ot have a lot to say

[Farkran]

accused people are refusing to answer

Kindly point me to anything I have refused to answer?

See my post 391. Also please give your educated opinion of sushi, including details.

(Out of game: Writing from mobile so forgive me if i have an hard time using url quotes)

OK, first issue: If you have a question for a slot, direct it. 391 was a rambling diatribe on Emps, me, Creeper, sushi, and ends with "Thoughts?" Thats not me refusing to answer a question.

Second, I think you are scumreading me, a town. For reasons you havent disclosed. I think you havent asked any questions of me or otherwise tried to flesh out your read of me, or of anyone else, until now. Which makes me feel like you auto-piloted on me -- the same way I feel like you have been manipulating your reads of other slots to see what would help you best survive.

Third, on Sushi - she is a hard slot for me to read generally. Here, I have strong gut hard town pings. Trying to rationalize it into words makes it weaker tbh, but there are reasons there. First, she did the same thread greeting as you in 32. But unlike you, with her, I townread it because she has experience with the site meta and could be using it to evaluate the board. Second, I melded on her early read of your play. Third, her answers and self-meta in 120 are remarkably accurate, and consistent with how she has approached the game. Fourth, while her posting style has been slightly more conversant this game, the same cautious mentality is there as well -- a player who is playing v consistently with my expectation of them is one I think did hit the probability of rolling town. The several clarification questions are likewise consistent with my expectation of a polite, cautious hunter who tries to understand minds (e.g. 201, 216, 217, 220, 274). OVerall fairly strong town.

Finally, since its late enough in the day - intent is floating - I will share my readslist in full:
Emps
Sushi-Spam
Skit Selynee
Menalque
Creeper
Farkhan

For reasons i have not disclosed, you say? Talking about me misrepping and not reading the game thread. I have been accusing you of buddying (you probably refer to it here as pocketing) and changing your mind about your decision to join the farkran lynchtrain right after emps told you to. You've never offered anything useful to the conversation before you have been prompted to, besides measured politeness which is usually a strong scumtell.

[skitter30]

Skit- talk to me about Menalque because I melded w you a bit there. I disagreed w the early townread on darque and his reads (there, emps) have seemed a little swingy. The meld was strong on the 180-220 bit of reaching to scumread spam after what was to me an extremely towny reaction test - like Nigeria at the player Nd looking for a rationale.

not liking him super much here, for a few reasons:

a) dislike him putting me pre-emptively as a townread. scum tend ot just throw townreads on me instead of like trying to fake reading me, or trying to scumread me - i'm a ... really hard mislynch these days, and it's ... just a lot easier to townread me than anything else, for scum, i think.

this kinda felt like that to me a bit

b) kinda felt like he was goading emps into l-1'ing to kinda make a hammer happen, at a *waaaaaay* too early point in the game imo, especially given that someone people hadn't even posted yet.

i don't think menalque / farkfran are scum together here based on how menalque's been interacting with the wagon

c) there was a third thing but i'm blanking as i'm writing this, i'm sure it will come to me shortly

[skitter30]

right it was the nmsa read - nmsa's reaction test thing comes from town like ... nearly always, and i don't get why nmsa having a different read than him on farkran on like p2 is a reason to find nmsa scummy

[skitter30]

it should be mentioned Fark is at L-1

also i'm p sure i placed an l-2 vote, but it's possible i miscounted

[skitter30]

Eh, knowing the wagon comp and timing now, I like it more. Thanks for that emps.

VOTE: Fark.

Thats L-1, folks.

i think teacher is kinda townie, actually

[teacher]

Yes, you have thrown shade my way, saying Im not engaging (A) but Buddying (B). A and B are inconsistent. Either I am engaging and buddying/pocketing (both are used interchangeably here, though pocketing is more usually assoicated with a scum implication); or I am not engaging. You cant do both at the same time.

If politeness is a scumtell, you need help. Politeness is just decency/playstyle. Playstyle -/ alignment. I can link all the aggressive scumms (Robbnva tends to be a good example here) and the polite ones (youre playing with several I have experienced).

At no point in all of this shade have you quoted a post of mine and explained why it comes from scum more often than town. Nor have you explained why a 2 person scum team would be more likely to openly buddy and joint vote rather than largely ignore each other -- this from someone who is hunting primarily on pre-flip associations, which are crap. And you ignore my prime thrust, that you never asked any questions of me or otherwise tried to flesh out your read of me, or of anyone else, until now.

[skitter30]

I really can't stand her strong defense of emps though, i would understand doubts, but you're going too far here.

i'm p confident he's town

[emps]

claim ur fucking role

[skitter30]

Either VT taking it on a personal level (happens more often than it should)

is it bad that i think asides like these are kinda townie ?

[skitter30]

menalque: still very trollish, offers decent analysis from time to time. Reasoning behind analysis is appropriate, so i'm at a loss here. Looks strongly town PR to me, although i find it hard to believe at this point.

again, whatever your alignment is, it's a p bad idea to keep repeating this in thread

if farkran is scum i think it almost has to be with another newbie

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: