Newbie 1962 | (Game Over)

[Chibiie]

But would also like to note that you if we flip any red by D3, one of us definitely gets NK'ed.

[Radja]

As I said, I'll reassess on day 3 if you're still alive.

Oh, I completely understand that and I completely agree, BUT I must say that if we both survive 'til D3, I tend to believe one of us is scum and since I know I'm town, means that there'll be a clash.

But that only if we don't flip any reds by D3...
D3 (assuming we lynch and there are NKs) would end up in a 5 peeps situation.

If we're both town and we share the same reads, here's the deal:
I'm town in a 3 Town 2 Scum situation (D3)... That means I have to read 2 Towns and 2 Scums, but if we have same reads and we both survive, something doesn't add up... One of us 2 must be scum then.

This is already thinking ahead in time, but you can't deny this fact. There is a 2nd hypothesis which is that if we both survive 'til D3, we're both town and are being played by scums so that we clash in D3 and end up with 3 green flips which if that happens, that's a scum win.

Thinking too far ahead, but you get my point.

If we're both alive on D3, without any scum flips, I will not complain about losing this game lol. Either way let's not assume this will happen

[Radja]

I like GildedSun's comment. It's a fact that Farren hasn't given me any attention really.

Chibiie, I'm fairly sure we can solve this game, I'm trying to share as much of my thoughts in case I die, so people can still go over them if they want to.

[faüstiv]

I’m thinking fish/Farren/gdooog are all town based on voting patterns.

elaborating on this:

Formerfish:

30 is tonally town.

FF's concerns allign perfectly with his thoughts in 30 so this progression makes sense.

69 still maintains the push on ETL despite the slot being TR at that point. Scum FF could back away from this at this point but instead continues with his push.

121 is a good question.

Farren:

I think there's elements of genuine gamesolving in Farren's posts so far.

76 is a good post from him for example and looks iike a genuine attempt to sort a slot which pinged as scum during that point in the game. 93 looks like a natural progression on this read and again Farren asks good questions.

I like the paranoia shown in 127 that I am echoing ETL's thought process yet voting a player she marked as town.

His responses to Chiibie's pressure is good too. He's not really floundering from what I can see.

305 is another good gamesolve post from Farren.

Gdoooog/Geyde:

Already said that I don't really see scum!Gdoooog voting without a reason as it draws attention to the slot.

I like the contributions Geyde made this game.

If Geyde is scum then I don't see why he would choose to TR farren here right off the bat, especially when he's only drawing attention to himself by doing so.

Thought process on FF aligns with mine.

Overall this is my strongest TR of the three.


I think both scum is outside of FF/Farren/Geyde.

[TheGildedSun]

In response to Faust:

Do you have any strong scum reads yet? I know you are currently voting for me but I am interested in what you make of the other players you haven't mentioned. I find it interesting how despite the opposition you voice your TR on Fish and Farren. This surely draws attention to you, which is something mafia wouldn't want. But of course this doesn't shift my read on you.

In specifics, what are your thoughts on Yoda? (Question for Faust and everyone, if you'd like to voice your opinions) I believe ETL said they were a scum read to them. I'm curious everyone else's opinions.

[Chibiie]

Press X to doubt.

There is definitely one scum in those three.
Tomorrow, once I get some sleep and I'm in front of my office PC, I will take the time to make a full post in a log-style similar to Radja (Yoda can confirm that my posting style is a lot of information piled up and too much to read, so I will attempt to copy Radja's lovely style)

PEDIT: Will include everyone in my post so no point in sharing opinions right now.

[Formerfish]

Anyone wanna dance?

[Yodavader]

Scum in {yoda, farren, gdogreplacementperson}

People I’m sure are town and I will prob never vote them: gilded, chibiie, Faust, radja

Fish and farren... both still kinda question marks but fish less so. The opposition to farren is noticeable though. Yodas vote on fish is gross too.

VOTE: yoda

Would be fine with farren or gdogperson as well today.

How is my vote gross? Fish hasn't said anything yet to change my mind on my stance from earlier about his alignment. He was my vote until the whole Gdog incident. Since that spot is cleaned, my vote goes back to the person who I find scummiest at the moment.

Yoda will take his revenge for last game by NK'ing me.
Trust me, I'm a prophet.

lol. Are you trying to say that since you were scum last game and NK'd me, it's my turn to return the favor? Unfortunately, I don't have the power to do that.

289 caught my eye. Assuming it refers to 280.

True or False: Everyday must end in a lynch.

Technically false under the game rules. No lynch can happen if 50% of the players vote for it, or if the deadline expires without a majority.

My proposed wording: every day *should* end in a lynch.

You'd have to add a caveat or two to make it foolproof - MYLO with no confirmed Town being the most relevant one by far - but in most cases going by this is how things should be.

We win by lynching scum. No-lynching has a 0% success of advancing our win condition; scum will still get to advance their win condition via the NK. Even mislynches can provide some benefit to the Town in terms of the information they provides.

Agreed. This is my stance also. If we are to win, we must lynch. Mislynches gives us information. No lynches also gives us info but a lot less and it gives scum a free shot at town. So, to me, there must always be a lynch. And as someone stated in my last game, I will gladly selfhammer to stop a no lynch.

Spoiler:

Well, that was quite an interesting start to the game.

I've been wanting to try something different with RVs

1. If you were in a 4 piece band (front man singer, guitar, bass and drums) which do you choose and why?

2. Do you play poker? How would you describe your play?

3. Oh shit... It looks like this is still in progress, just answer the first two and we'll be good.

1. I would be the bass player because we all know that the bassist is really the face of any band. Plus, my current favorite person on my current favorite band is the bassist, MISA from Band-Maid.
2. With real money, very conservatively. With fake money, mostly all-ins at the beginning to try and get a good lead and then more conservative once I have a good amount of chips.

It was RVS, so I just picked someone at random, though if anything, RVS’ing a new player is a better way to illicit a reaction from them. Experienced players know it’s RVS, so are unlikely to take the vote seriously.

I like the thought process behind this.

Do you think newbie town or scum is more likely to react poorly to being voted?

What did you learn from the vote here?

For me, especially if this is their first game with this type of setup, I think it's NAI (I think that's the right term for it). The reaction I got is that she is very jumpy but understandable since I hated being voted for my first few games in forum based Mafia. So for me, it's forgiven but not forgotten. Let's see how she plays the rest of the game.

Now, if she had even just a couple of games under her belt, then I would say that this is scummy. I think town would be more jumpy if they were at L-1 where scum wouldn't want any attention at all.

I think for scum to win they have to kill townies and maybe you want to push me as scum to get me out of the way early, I don't know why you are making bad pushes. I think that if you were interested in why someone was playing a certain way that you would talk to them about it, but both times now you have kinda flown off half cocked only to retract within a post or two.

Is retracting a bad argument scummy, Town, or both? And why?

For me, it depends on how the retraction goes. A gradual progression after a discussion is more townie than an abrupt 180 turn in a very short time.

I'm going to have to go back through the ETL/Fish section to see how I really feel about that.

Though I am curious why faust chose you over someone he knows or has played with before. Being that this is your first MS game, you haven't played with anyone here yet. Yeah yeah it's random but like, a lot of people use it as a "hello" type thing. If Faust was brand new like you, I would understand just randomly picking but I think there might have been some thought put into that choice.

Faust

- can you walk me through that pls?

I'm don't think anything in RVS can be taken seriously. In my experience, I have seen people vote for others that they have played with before because "they were scum last game, so they must be scum this game" and also where they vote for players they haven't played with before because "I don't know you so you must be scum" and basically anything in between. So, I think trying to figure out why a person chose this player to RVS over another is a moot point.

This is a very scummy response, town wouldn't be so worried of being voted as a townie being lynched gives reads of who was on their wagon and why, while scum are much more nervous about being lynched and this is hyper shown here.

VOTE: TheGildedSun

My experience has been that early signs of nervousness can sometimes be scum-motivated, but it's definitely not a smoking gun by any stretch. Some Town players absolutely get nervous about being voted.

What about GildedSun's behavior makes this "hyper shown here?"

I don't think we need to talk about this part anymore. It doesn't help us at all and can only hurt us.

But why stop a conversation in the first place? If we are actually making some kind of progress, why stop it?

-snip-

Did I say that? I think I said you could be scum

because your pushes have been on town so far

. And theyve been bad pushes. Im not roping you with a BoP rap here, so im not sure where that came from.

I know that you have already answered this but I just wanted to point out that I have noticed this too.

VOTE: Spartan117

Still waiting for a reason why you popped in with no explanation on this vote.

But as of right now, I am going to VOTE: Fish. I don't know why you would want to stop any conversation. My experience (limited as it is) says that conversations will naturally die off on it's own and move onto the next topic. There is not reason for someone to try and stop it. Also, I think the slip of the tongue is more telling than what you are trying to cover.

Next few days are gonna be busy for me just FYI.

Strongly disliking the momentum of the fish wagon. Will look into this more later but I’d put money if fish is town, which the speed suggests, there’s at least one scum in that group.

There was literally no fight at all.

UNVOTE:

I've been wanting to try something different with RVs

1. If you were in a 4 piece band (front man singer, guitar, bass and drums) which do you choose and why?

2. Do you play poker? How would you describe your play?

3. Oh shit... It looks like this is still in progress, just answer the first two and we'll be good.

1) drummer cuz i gots anger issues and i don't like being in the spotlight IRL
2) no but if I did I'd probably have fun
3) methinks you trying to dodge suspicion by not voting.

VOTE: fish

VOTE: fish

Talk about “weak” pushes.

It's hard to say that there was no fight when there were votes put on Fish. Sure, the first was RVS-esque but the second was more of a legitimate vote during a discussion with each other.

I think this is a good way to judge read progression - gradual progression is more Town than abrupt 180s here.

For bad arguments, though - it shouldn't take that long to clear up genuine mistakes of fact, semantic confusion, or missed possibilities. Semantic confusion is probably the toughest of the three, as sometimes it isn't obvious that's what's happening - but once it is obvious, it's as easy to fix as the others.

And yes, definitely an interesting start. Should mean a fun game coming up.

That is also true. If the argument is proven to be bad logic, then correcting it in a few posts would count as post progression, at least to me.

I can think of a few different conversations that should be shut down pronto, for a variety of reasons (game rules, game integrity, benefits scum)

I don't think mine fell into any of the categories, but it was at least within eyesight of one of them, so I'm not going to hold a grudge against trying to stay away from the line.

Also agreed that discussions about things outside of what is happening in game should be stopped but there are things that should just be spoken out until the end.

I think things that could benefit scum could/would also benefit town. If we are afraid to speak about things because it could benefit scum, then we just shouldn't say anything at all?

Also, I think that talking about how we perceive "hyper" responses is a topic that shouldn't be stopped but let that conversation die off naturally.

VOTE: Spartan117

VOTE: Spartan117

VOTE: Spartan117

Cool

VOTE: Gdog

Something we can agree on. He's had plenty of time to make some kind of post. Not even an impact post. Literally, any kind of post.

VOTE: Gdog

I agree with Chibiie on all points (which is really reminiscent of our last game), especially about Gdog but I can't switch my vote at this moment. If it wasn't for Gdog's "play", my vote would still be on Fish.

Wow, that was a good page. I do believe that the Farren v Chibiie is TvT. But I do agree with Chibiie over Farren on the answering questions section.

You shouldn't state that you want to answer something, but wait for someone else's answer before-hand... I mean... I wanna place a bet on this team, but will wait until they win.

Makes sense?

Disagree. The question was specifically about why Spartan unvoted. If Spartan's scum, me commenting in detail could make him change the answer he gives to sound better. If Spartan's Town and his answer happens to address the issue I'm thinking of *after* I comment, I'll suspect that he changed his answer based on my comments, which will devalue the answer.

By stating publicly that I want to comment, it helps maintain accountability on multiple levels. On my end, I want to make sure I don't forget about it, and commenting in the thread increases the likelihood that someone else will notice and inquire if I do. On Spartan's end, it increases the likelihood that he will answer - either by him seeing the comment directly, effects from me being reminded about it, or something like what happened with ETL and Spartan earlier.

Commenting that I want to hear the answer doesn't change anything, as if I didn't want to hear the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

The way that you described is very WIFOM-y. Like Chibiie stated, if you answer after they answer, your answer could have been influenced by their's. It will devalue your answer because how do we know that you didn't change your answer.

What makes you think we're both townies?
I honestly believe that Farren must be scum for his misplays and for his low-profile.

The thing is, his low-profile is showing... He's not keeping a quiet low-profile, but an obvious one.
Like... everyone can tell that he plays over a game plan. You wound act that open and secretive at the same time, unless you don't follow a plan which in order to work, requirements must be met.

I strongly believe there is a scum in Formerfish/Farren and I tend to believe that Farren is more likely to flip red.

I can see where his thought process is coming from when it comes to directed questions. I still don't like his WIFOM response, but having a game plan isn't always scummy. I guess we'll see what he is talking about when he decides to share with the class.

Your play has been pretty consistent with town, so you are TR for me.

As for your Farren/Formerfish flip, I think that fish has a better chance of flipping red.

I would like to hear from the other folks though. I think both scum are just hanging out and letting us do all the work for them.

@faüstiv

, could you get into more details about the game so far?

The game itself is pretty inactive, so I don't really have much to add to my current stance.
I wish I could analyze all of you, but a dead thread is not helping me out on this.

Agreed. Though I know some people said that they would be away for the weekend, it would be nice to get a little traction, anywhere.

-snip-

Yoda agrees on joining this wagon if it was not for Gdog's "play" and tbh, will question that later, but for now I'm really set on figuring out who's the scum out of Formerfish/Farren and will keep on fiddling between these two during D1. (Unless a major turn of events happen and makes me turn toward another player)

Will be off for the next 14 or so hours.
Ttyl

Yeah, this is just like last game. Would have voted for player 1 but player 2 is just so much more inviting. Hope the results aren't the same though, where they were both town.

-snip-

I assume there is no use for this but when I received the initial vote I actually wasn't panic-stricken, that was not where my response was coming from. I was much more curious? I didn't know random votes on D1 were a common practice and I actually thought the vote on me was fascinating in a way, because to my beliefs at the time there was no valid reason to suspect me. Which I later was told why I had been voted, just as a random vote for the reason to get people to talk/open up. (Which would then lead into reads) I've gotten myself into hot water due to my peculiar response and now I know I can't really do anything to justify myself at the moment other than watch it all play out.

Yes, don't just watch from the sidelines. Every action, every post, helps us figure out who scum is. Don't be afraid to voice your thoughts. Mislynches and NK happen and it can be a good thing because we can use that to see who pushed who or who stayed away and that can help us find scum.

@Yoda
What are

your

thoughts on the game?

Your slot is making a lot of judgements based off of what other people conclude and I don't see how a lot of your questions push the gamestate forward

So far, my list goes as follows

Town:
Yoda (obv)
Chibiie - very town, if I wasn't at the top of my list, Chibiie would be
faustiv
Radja

town lean:
Geyde
Gilded - seems like newb town

Null:
ETL
Farren

Scum:
Fish

[eth0s]

Chibiie received a sitewide ban and is being replaced.

[faüstiv]

well he certainly kept us on our toes didn’t he?

[Formerfish]

Yeah, ill be taking a day away from the thread. Ill do a full reread when Chibbers gets replaced.

[Yodavader]

Well, Chibiie's departure was shcoking to say the least.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I’m fairly convinced at this point the team is yoda/farren. His reads don’t make any sense. Given all the content farren has posted he’s still “null”? BS. Same goes for his “read” on me. There is zero reason I should be null over slots that have fewer posts. It’s a hedge. One to mask his association with farren and two to allow him to push a widely townread slot containing a strong player.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also listing yourself in your townreads is silly scum nonsense lol

@faust let’s chat. I think you may need to rework your reads and I’d like to understand them better. I think you’re obvtown but you’re on the wrong track.

[TheGildedSun]

Time is surely waning on D1 and now without Chibiie, the person who was most attempting to progress the game, I feel that we as town need to make some sort of advancement before we get stuck in nightkill limbo.
VOTE: Farren

Farren I really would like you to answer your reasoning behind your sudden disinterest in Spartan/Radja's slot. It's offputting to me that as soon as Spartan was replaced you stopped pushing on them, and that just seems off.

[Radja]

I'm still waiting on Farren's answer but I'm fine with just running him up at this point.
Hoping Chibiie's replacement is going to be a useful asset.

[Farren]

First: addressing questions.

Q: Did I start reading faustiv's completed game? What's your assessment?
A: Yes, I did. Town game, and I do see one of the things there that was troubling me here about him - short answers to questions without further discussion during D1. Given that plus the fact that he was concentrating more on his other game, I no longer consider it to be evidence of scumminess; either it's a playstyle thing or a distraction thing. Either one's NAI. Furthermore, I've been seeing more signs of a spark from him lately - 283, 328 as examples there. No longer leaning scum.

Q: Why are you not invested in looking into Radja?
A: I made the deliberate decision to cut back my investment into the game as a whole. I said earlier that I try to stay composed in these games. That does not mean that I'm emotionless. Rather the opposite; I was getting pissed off enough at this game between insults and BS that it was starting to bleed into real life. If I have to choose between paying full attention to Mafia and not inadvertently snapping at my family, I'm choosing the latter.

I believe that when a player replaces in, going after them tooth and nail before they have a chance to read and understand the gamestate is rude. Replacements are a regrettably necessary part of the game, and I don't want to do anything that discourages people in general from choosing to do so.

If someone replaces in during D1, I try as best I can to give that player a clean slate, unless I have reason to suspect a replacement in bad faith (made for tactical reasons rather than due to a genuine inability to continue the game). One caveat: I reserve the right to ask Radja his opinion about Spartan's actions, and to judge Radja based on those answers.

I do need to look into Radja, just as much as I do everyone else in the game.

Q: What's your view on replacements?
A: Mostly covered by the above answer. From D2 onwards, it isn't practical to go with the clean slate approach. But it's important in any event to consider how the new player acts regardless of how the old one did. I do find replacements that occur during the game to be discombobulating, and this game has had more than what I consider normal.

As a side note, I am going to find it extra challenging to do this with Chibiie's replacement. I can but try.

[Farren]

Q: So what was up with the thing about Spartan? Why so secretive?
A: Spartan's unvote in 86. He unvoted Formerfish without reason after Fish hit L-1. He never explained that unvote. The most logical reason for that unvote - preventing lolhammers. He didn't say that, but that's what I thought when I saw the unvote.

Problem: looking back at Spartan's previous game - Newbie 1959. Spartan was Town in this game.

Post 36 in Newbie 1959: Spartan puts Teacher at L-1. Looks to be pretty early in D1 by both post count and time elapsed.
Post 38 in Newbie 1959: says he has no issues hammering anyone here if he thinks they are scum.

Here, Spartan unvotes fish once he hits L-1. Per post 71, Spartan's initial vote was clearly not meta. So why willing to see a hammer in 1959, but not willing to see a hammer here?

Problem is - this all hinges on my assumption: that Spartan unvoted to prevent a hammer. If Spartan was scum and I laid this case out without confirming that, all he'd have to do is come up with a different reason for unvoting.

Spartan never answered, though, and has since replaced out. So now I'll never know - and even if Radja explicitly endorsed Spartan's unvote *and* said point-blank he would have done the same thing in Spartan's shoes, it wouldn't matter.

[Geyde]

Scum in {yoda, farren, gdogreplacementperson}

People I’m sure are town and I will prob never vote them: gilded, chibiie, Faust, radja

Fish and farren... both still kinda question marks but fish less so. The opposition to farren is noticeable though. Yodas vote on fish is gross too.

VOTE: yoda

Would be fine with farren or gdogperson as well today.

How is my vote gross? Fish hasn't said anything yet to change my mind on my stance from earlier about his alignment. He was my vote until the whole Gdog incident. Since that spot is cleaned, my vote goes back to the person who I find scummiest at the moment.

Yoda will take his revenge for last game by NK'ing me.
Trust me, I'm a prophet.

lol. Are you trying to say that since you were scum last game and NK'd me, it's my turn to return the favor? Unfortunately, I don't have the power to do that.

289 caught my eye. Assuming it refers to 280.

True or False: Everyday must end in a lynch.

Technically false under the game rules. No lynch can happen if 50% of the players vote for it, or if the deadline expires without a majority.

My proposed wording: every day *should* end in a lynch.

You'd have to add a caveat or two to make it foolproof - MYLO with no confirmed Town being the most relevant one by far - but in most cases going by this is how things should be.

We win by lynching scum. No-lynching has a 0% success of advancing our win condition; scum will still get to advance their win condition via the NK. Even mislynches can provide some benefit to the Town in terms of the information they provides.

Agreed. This is my stance also. If we are to win, we must lynch. Mislynches gives us information. No lynches also gives us info but a lot less and it gives scum a free shot at town. So, to me, there must always be a lynch. And as someone stated in my last game, I will gladly selfhammer to stop a no lynch.

Spoiler:

Well, that was quite an interesting start to the game.

I've been wanting to try something different with RVs

1. If you were in a 4 piece band (front man singer, guitar, bass and drums) which do you choose and why?

2. Do you play poker? How would you describe your play?

3. Oh shit... It looks like this is still in progress, just answer the first two and we'll be good.

1. I would be the bass player because we all know that the bassist is really the face of any band. Plus, my current favorite person on my current favorite band is the bassist, MISA from Band-Maid.
2. With real money, very conservatively. With fake money, mostly all-ins at the beginning to try and get a good lead and then more conservative once I have a good amount of chips.

It was RVS, so I just picked someone at random, though if anything, RVS’ing a new player is a better way to illicit a reaction from them. Experienced players know it’s RVS, so are unlikely to take the vote seriously.

I like the thought process behind this.

Do you think newbie town or scum is more likely to react poorly to being voted?

What did you learn from the vote here?

For me, especially if this is their first game with this type of setup, I think it's NAI (I think that's the right term for it). The reaction I got is that she is very jumpy but understandable since I hated being voted for my first few games in forum based Mafia. So for me, it's forgiven but not forgotten. Let's see how she plays the rest of the game.

Now, if she had even just a couple of games under her belt, then I would say that this is scummy. I think town would be more jumpy if they were at L-1 where scum wouldn't want any attention at all.

I think for scum to win they have to kill townies and maybe you want to push me as scum to get me out of the way early, I don't know why you are making bad pushes. I think that if you were interested in why someone was playing a certain way that you would talk to them about it, but both times now you have kinda flown off half cocked only to retract within a post or two.

Is retracting a bad argument scummy, Town, or both? And why?

For me, it depends on how the retraction goes. A gradual progression after a discussion is more townie than an abrupt 180 turn in a very short time.

I'm going to have to go back through the ETL/Fish section to see how I really feel about that.

Though I am curious why faust chose you over someone he knows or has played with before. Being that this is your first MS game, you haven't played with anyone here yet. Yeah yeah it's random but like, a lot of people use it as a "hello" type thing. If Faust was brand new like you, I would understand just randomly picking but I think there might have been some thought put into that choice.

Faust

- can you walk me through that pls?

I'm don't think anything in RVS can be taken seriously. In my experience, I have seen people vote for others that they have played with before because "they were scum last game, so they must be scum this game" and also where they vote for players they haven't played with before because "I don't know you so you must be scum" and basically anything in between. So, I think trying to figure out why a person chose this player to RVS over another is a moot point.

This is a very scummy response, town wouldn't be so worried of being voted as a townie being lynched gives reads of who was on their wagon and why, while scum are much more nervous about being lynched and this is hyper shown here.

VOTE: TheGildedSun

My experience has been that early signs of nervousness can sometimes be scum-motivated, but it's definitely not a smoking gun by any stretch. Some Town players absolutely get nervous about being voted.

What about GildedSun's behavior makes this "hyper shown here?"

I don't think we need to talk about this part anymore. It doesn't help us at all and can only hurt us.

But why stop a conversation in the first place? If we are actually making some kind of progress, why stop it?

-snip-

Did I say that? I think I said you could be scum

because your pushes have been on town so far

. And theyve been bad pushes. Im not roping you with a BoP rap here, so im not sure where that came from.

I know that you have already answered this but I just wanted to point out that I have noticed this too.

VOTE: Spartan117

Still waiting for a reason why you popped in with no explanation on this vote.

But as of right now, I am going to VOTE: Fish. I don't know why you would want to stop any conversation. My experience (limited as it is) says that conversations will naturally die off on it's own and move onto the next topic. There is not reason for someone to try and stop it. Also, I think the slip of the tongue is more telling than what you are trying to cover.

Next few days are gonna be busy for me just FYI.

Strongly disliking the momentum of the fish wagon. Will look into this more later but I’d put money if fish is town, which the speed suggests, there’s at least one scum in that group.

There was literally no fight at all.

UNVOTE:

I've been wanting to try something different with RVs

1. If you were in a 4 piece band (front man singer, guitar, bass and drums) which do you choose and why?

2. Do you play poker? How would you describe your play?

3. Oh shit... It looks like this is still in progress, just answer the first two and we'll be good.

1) drummer cuz i gots anger issues and i don't like being in the spotlight IRL
2) no but if I did I'd probably have fun
3) methinks you trying to dodge suspicion by not voting.

VOTE: fish

VOTE: fish

Talk about “weak” pushes.

It's hard to say that there was no fight when there were votes put on Fish. Sure, the first was RVS-esque but the second was more of a legitimate vote during a discussion with each other.

I think this is a good way to judge read progression - gradual progression is more Town than abrupt 180s here.

For bad arguments, though - it shouldn't take that long to clear up genuine mistakes of fact, semantic confusion, or missed possibilities. Semantic confusion is probably the toughest of the three, as sometimes it isn't obvious that's what's happening - but once it is obvious, it's as easy to fix as the others.

And yes, definitely an interesting start. Should mean a fun game coming up.

That is also true. If the argument is proven to be bad logic, then correcting it in a few posts would count as post progression, at least to me.

I can think of a few different conversations that should be shut down pronto, for a variety of reasons (game rules, game integrity, benefits scum)

I don't think mine fell into any of the categories, but it was at least within eyesight of one of them, so I'm not going to hold a grudge against trying to stay away from the line.

Also agreed that discussions about things outside of what is happening in game should be stopped but there are things that should just be spoken out until the end.

I think things that could benefit scum could/would also benefit town. If we are afraid to speak about things because it could benefit scum, then we just shouldn't say anything at all?

Also, I think that talking about how we perceive "hyper" responses is a topic that shouldn't be stopped but let that conversation die off naturally.

VOTE: Spartan117

VOTE: Spartan117

VOTE: Spartan117

Cool

VOTE: Gdog

Something we can agree on. He's had plenty of time to make some kind of post. Not even an impact post. Literally, any kind of post.

VOTE: Gdog

I agree with Chibiie on all points (which is really reminiscent of our last game), especially about Gdog but I can't switch my vote at this moment. If it wasn't for Gdog's "play", my vote would still be on Fish.

Wow, that was a good page. I do believe that the Farren v Chibiie is TvT. But I do agree with Chibiie over Farren on the answering questions section.

You shouldn't state that you want to answer something, but wait for someone else's answer before-hand... I mean... I wanna place a bet on this team, but will wait until they win.

Makes sense?

Disagree. The question was specifically about why Spartan unvoted. If Spartan's scum, me commenting in detail could make him change the answer he gives to sound better. If Spartan's Town and his answer happens to address the issue I'm thinking of *after* I comment, I'll suspect that he changed his answer based on my comments, which will devalue the answer.

By stating publicly that I want to comment, it helps maintain accountability on multiple levels. On my end, I want to make sure I don't forget about it, and commenting in the thread increases the likelihood that someone else will notice and inquire if I do. On Spartan's end, it increases the likelihood that he will answer - either by him seeing the comment directly, effects from me being reminded about it, or something like what happened with ETL and Spartan earlier.

Commenting that I want to hear the answer doesn't change anything, as if I didn't want to hear the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

The way that you described is very WIFOM-y. Like Chibiie stated, if you answer after they answer, your answer could have been influenced by their's. It will devalue your answer because how do we know that you didn't change your answer.

What makes you think we're both townies?
I honestly believe that Farren must be scum for his misplays and for his low-profile.

The thing is, his low-profile is showing... He's not keeping a quiet low-profile, but an obvious one.
Like... everyone can tell that he plays over a game plan. You wound act that open and secretive at the same time, unless you don't follow a plan which in order to work, requirements must be met.

I strongly believe there is a scum in Formerfish/Farren and I tend to believe that Farren is more likely to flip red.

I can see where his thought process is coming from when it comes to directed questions. I still don't like his WIFOM response, but having a game plan isn't always scummy. I guess we'll see what he is talking about when he decides to share with the class.

Your play has been pretty consistent with town, so you are TR for me.

As for your Farren/Formerfish flip, I think that fish has a better chance of flipping red.

I would like to hear from the other folks though. I think both scum are just hanging out and letting us do all the work for them.

@faüstiv

, could you get into more details about the game so far?

The game itself is pretty inactive, so I don't really have much to add to my current stance.
I wish I could analyze all of you, but a dead thread is not helping me out on this.

Agreed. Though I know some people said that they would be away for the weekend, it would be nice to get a little traction, anywhere.

-snip-

Yoda agrees on joining this wagon if it was not for Gdog's "play" and tbh, will question that later, but for now I'm really set on figuring out who's the scum out of Formerfish/Farren and will keep on fiddling between these two during D1. (Unless a major turn of events happen and makes me turn toward another player)

Will be off for the next 14 or so hours.
Ttyl

Yeah, this is just like last game. Would have voted for player 1 but player 2 is just so much more inviting. Hope the results aren't the same though, where they were both town.

-snip-

I assume there is no use for this but when I received the initial vote I actually wasn't panic-stricken, that was not where my response was coming from. I was much more curious? I didn't know random votes on D1 were a common practice and I actually thought the vote on me was fascinating in a way, because to my beliefs at the time there was no valid reason to suspect me. Which I later was told why I had been voted, just as a random vote for the reason to get people to talk/open up. (Which would then lead into reads) I've gotten myself into hot water due to my peculiar response and now I know I can't really do anything to justify myself at the moment other than watch it all play out.

Yes, don't just watch from the sidelines. Every action, every post, helps us figure out who scum is. Don't be afraid to voice your thoughts. Mislynches and NK happen and it can be a good thing because we can use that to see who pushed who or who stayed away and that can help us find scum.

@Yoda
What are

your

thoughts on the game?

Your slot is making a lot of judgements based off of what other people conclude and I don't see how a lot of your questions push the gamestate forward

So far, my list goes as follows

Town:
Yoda (obv)
Chibiie - very town, if I wasn't at the top of my list, Chibiie would be
faustiv
Radja

town lean:
Geyde
Gilded - seems like newb town

Null:
ETL
Farren

Scum:
Fish

I'm not blind here, right?
I'm not seeing any pretense of solving from this slot just based off of this post.

Comment on 297
Town has no reason to say this
Scum would want to blend

"Yes I am definitely not scum."
"Posting this achieves assuring players that I am town."
Hyperbole, but that's all that comment accomplishes at this point (p1-2 posting this would be fine tbh, but Yoda doesn't strike me as the shitposting type)


Comment on 297/285
These don't push gamestate forward in meaningful ways, but eh they seem to fall in line with the rest of their comments

Comment on 310
ew
None of his townreads even had progression (minus Chibiie) beyond just this post where he suddenly believes I'm likely town (seen in his comment on 285 with how he phrases it).
He even says Farren/Chibiie tvt, but has them at null for nondescript reasons that haven't been elaborated on in the slightest.
It's weird and I don't think this flip flop with no rep in thread comes from town, and I can't see what in thread would provoke this change of thought from TownPoV

[Geyde]

VOTE: Yodavader

[Farren]

Radja: what are your thoughts on Yoda? All you mention about him in your catch-up is that he had a good entrance, and that you read him as null.

[Farren]

Yoda: since you stated your stance on lynch vs. no-lynch in 332, I assume you're satisfied with the answers you got. What was your goal in asking about it?

[Farren]

Fish: what conclusions did you reach from your RQS?

[eth0s]

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[eth0s]

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