Newbie 1963 - Game Over

[JacksonVirgo]

JV, care to join fuzzy on the readslist assignment, and also answer this?

So I’m your mind there is a legit possibility I outted myself as cop (a claim that gets countered in every single setup) with an inno just for the giggles?

I'll get to the readlist after my exam in half an hour, but I think there is a possibility that you as a Mason or similar said that to gain reads or the like but then are easily able to confirm otherwise so you're not mislynched. I should probably have elaborated that earlier but oh well.

[Formerfish]

The guilty check could easily be a bluff dude

So to be clear. You think that teacher could be a mason who bluffed a result as a cop to gain reads and for some reason you called out the guilty as a bluff even though you think that if he's bluffing he's still town.

So why call out the bluff if you think it's a town motivated bluff? Why not let the Gambit run its course and see what we get from it?

[Micc]

Votecount 2.03

Formerfish (1) -

JacksonVirgo

eth0s (1) -

Formerfish

Not Voting (5) -

Fuzanglong, Uncrowned, eth0s, teacher, the worst

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2019-11-12 22:45:00).

[eth0s]

Prod received.

Between real life obligations and the site running like crap every time I visited (including this time.. but it seems to be getting better) I am way behind. Catch up incoming shortly.

On a side note it just took me over almost two hours to release PTs, edit posts/titles, and create a final vote count for my modded game that just ended. Having to click all those links and make changes is very not fun during site lag.

[JacksonVirgo]

The guilty check could easily be a bluff dude

So to be clear. You think that teacher could be a mason who bluffed a result as a cop to gain reads and for some reason you called out the guilty as a bluff even though you think that if he's bluffing he's still town.

So why call out the bluff if you think it's a town motivated bluff? Why not let the Gambit run its course and see what we get from it?

From where I stand, you were using it to throw shade onto me and I did not appreciate that

[Formerfish]

The guilty check could easily be a bluff dude

So to be clear. You think that teacher could be a mason who bluffed a result as a cop to gain reads and for some reason you called out the guilty as a bluff even though you think that if he's bluffing he's still town.

So why call out the bluff if you think it's a town motivated bluff? Why not let the Gambit run its course and see what we get from it?

From where I stand, you were using it to throw shade onto me and I did not appreciate that

That didn't address my post at all. This is just a deflection.

VOTE: Junior Varsity

Welcome to the league boy.

[JacksonVirgo]

What do you mean? I thought that was what you asked

[Formerfish]

What do you mean? I thought that was what you asked

How is what you posted a response to me calling you out for a logical inconsistency in your posting?

Bottom line is you think that teacher is either a cop or a mason, so why would you throw shade of possible scum onto someone you think is a cop or mason?

[the worst]

fairly spicy nk

I have a very minor nka theory but I'm holding off til later aorn. It also might make you grind your teeth.

[the worst]

sigh
I have something I'll talk about post-game
it's not interesting/AI just something on my min

[JacksonVirgo]

What do you mean? I thought that was what you asked

How is what you posted a response to me calling you out for a logical inconsistency in your posting?

Bottom line is you think that teacher is either a cop or a mason, so why would you throw shade of possible scum onto someone you think is a cop or mason?

I did not think of it like that, I was just speaking my mind

[Formerfish]

What do you mean? I thought that was what you asked

How is what you posted a response to me calling you out for a logical inconsistency in your posting?

Bottom line is you think that teacher is either a cop or a mason, so why would you throw shade of possible scum onto someone you think is a cop or mason?

I did not think of it like that, I was just speaking my mind

That's probably because you're scum. Town would think about it differently.

[JacksonVirgo]

What do you mean? I thought that was what you asked

How is what you posted a response to me calling you out for a logical inconsistency in your posting?

Bottom line is you think that teacher is either a cop or a mason, so why would you throw shade of possible scum onto someone you think is a cop or mason?

I did not think of it like that, I was just speaking my mind

That's probably because you're scum. Town would think about it differently.

Yeah I'd take that back if you don't want cause a mislynch later.

[Formerfish]

What do you mean? I thought that was what you asked

How is what you posted a response to me calling you out for a logical inconsistency in your posting?

Bottom line is you think that teacher is either a cop or a mason, so why would you throw shade of possible scum onto someone you think is a cop or mason?

I did not think of it like that, I was just speaking my mind

That's probably because you're scum. Town would think about it differently.

Yeah I'd take that back if you don't want cause a mislynch later.

Nah. I'm good with my read. You got anyone more scummy than you right now? Shoot you shot and make a case.

[JacksonVirgo]

You seem confident you can be confirmed easily, so my thoughts on a scum team would be ethos and fuz.
If you are bluffing then it'd be ethos you

[Uncrowned]

Explain your reads JV, since they've changed from FF for now?

[eth0s]

wow pages 1-10 were some of the most devoid of readable content I have seen in a game. Hoping for a more eventful future..

Spoiler: Page 1-10

I like this post

--lot of pointless RQS being posted that people seem to like--

Sorry bud, I'm restarting RVS.

this actually made me laugh out loud

--Chibiie acting the way and getting banned (which I read as him attempting to replace out but scoring himself an intentional ban in the process) is weird to me because he was in another game at the time: my now finished Newbie 1962. He was complaining about low activity in that game, too. He had a really great solve (actually called the scumteam on day 1) and just thought everyone else was being lazy. He threatened to replace out but never actually did it. I wonder if his drastically different approach to this game is scum indicative for him? Admittedly I haven't read the game where he was scum with teacher so maybe I should check his ISO there to see if it changes anything.--

--assuming the saladman replace was just due to the game's toxicity?--

posts 20 and 24 strike me as off tonally/overly-explain-y. 119 is overly fence-sitty on FF (and 134 doesn't help that much imo.) And your thoughts on gardenia are a bit unclear to me (134 vs 187)

#20 and #24 were my first two posts ever in Forum Mafia. I like to explain my thought processes and wanted to move Gardenia away from voting for a no lynch, and the 2nd one was just a play on Teacher's name.

#119: Yes, I'll admit I'm fence-sitting on FF. I'm cautious around these types of playstyles. More on this in a bit.

#134: As I said before, I like to explain how I'm thinking. I may tend to ramble, but I'll try make things more concise. The passive plays and general inactivity made me want to attempt to put something on the board so the ball would at least start rolling a little.

#134/#187 (Gardenia Thoughts): I thought they were rather clear. I think she's new and trying to be helpful, but I didn't think Teacher's read of her FF Vote necessarily makes her Town. Like I mentioned in #187, Fish at that point was the easiest vote to make for anyone, as he had the most polarizing playstyle and had drew the attention to himself.

As for Jackson, my vote on Gyro was at the start of RVS and I wanted it on someone who hadn't posted in the game yet, if only to see if he'd react. He didn't. I'm keeping it on him since his posts haven't had much substance behind them imo. I don't think inactivity indicates scum, at least not right now. If that was the sole basis of my vote, I would've switched it once he posted a few times.

weird gut pings here. Feels over explain-y. coincidentally(?) while quoting a post that accused him of being just that.

Sure. Usually I hesitate to jump on the person who is being the "loudest in the room" as I feel like it's the obvious choice, especially for people who COULD be evil as the louder people are more likely to toss out accusations and make themselves appear more guilty in the process. However, most of my experiences with these aggressive types in other social deduction games is they've usually been either town trying to catch people slipping, or they're a jester (obviously this role list doesn't include that, so that's not a worry here)

However, I want to keep my mind open to the possibility of FF being a distraction for someone else assuming he has one. I see my mistake though, since the only way we'd even be able to figure that out would be via a lynch. Sitting on the fence in that scenario doesn't really make sense. I was hesitant to push since I'm not sure how that sort of thing plays out here. I'll commit to reading FF as an aggressive townie, rather than a scum at this stage.

And you're right, it is a bit odd. My only logic behind it is that Gardenia had been given a TL by two people I believe at that point (Teacher and Salad, who was in your slot before) whereas I had been read as null at that point and hadn't really been asked for my opinions. I'm starting to understand now that it'll be more helpful if I take an actual stance on things instead of waiting for others to do so.

again just rubs me the wrong way. maybe I'm just tired idk. Will revisit this ISO

[teacher]

Interest tunnel of two slots ignoring the two highest posters?

[Fuzanglong]

I'll explain why post-game Fuz - pretend Fishy and teacher are masons (or fishy and I are masons, if you'd prefer) for a moment. Can you see a scumteam which excludes Mr. Fishy?

I'll explain why post-game Fuz - pretend Fishy and teacher are masons (or fishy and I are masons, if you'd prefer) for a moment. Can you see a scumteam which excludes Mr. Fishy?

Honestly I really don't. I don't know what it is about FF, something about the way he's defending himself is ~fishy~ (I'M SORRY) or maybe I'm just a child who can't get past how aggressive he is lmfao

Aggression is NAI. Do you have anything to hang that scum read on other than aggression? If not then I suggest you listen to the duck when he says you should consider me a mason.

If you're unable to find scum that isn't me then just self vote cause it's probably you.

Okay i misunderstood the question. What's a mason? Also I'll make a tier list later using ur thing @worst (thanks) after work!

[Fuzanglong]

Also what is NAI

[eth0s]

Spoiler: 10-15

but at the end of the reading for some reason my gut made me think that fish and gardenia are maf...

Can you please elaborate on this?

Word of advice, don't look for teams yet. Look for individual scumminess.

Associate-hunting happens either post-flip or as a Town's last resort. We're not there yet.

Especially not if two people just talking to each other makes you think they're mafia together.

(bold underline) I don't think that's a totally fair case for associate hunting but I don't really have reason to believe datisi doesn't believe what she said.

I haven't been that active, mainly because I had a lot of stuff happening the past day. But here are my current reads. If I missed anyone, they're null.
---- Town ----
Teacher
JV

---- Null ----
Datis
Uncrowned

---- Scum ----
FormerFish
Marionette

Is this in order? Why is teacher higher than you? Why is teacher the only town apart from you? :/

No, not in order. And I don't have much reads on anyone else, so to the null they go.

9 people, 1 tr + yourself, 2 scum and 2 null. 3 people not listed, you say to throw them to the nulls.

Why did Dat and Unc get a null designation while the others are null be default?

note to self: check up on this later

Spoiler: long thread

I haven't been that active, mainly because I had a lot of stuff happening the past day. But here are my current reads. If I missed anyone, they're null.
---- Town ----
Teacher
JV

---- Null ----
Datis
Uncrowned

---- Scum ----
FormerFish
Marionette

Is this in order? Why is teacher higher than you? Why is teacher the only town apart from you? :/

No, not in order. And I don't have much reads on anyone else, so to the null they go.

9 people, 1 tr + yourself, 2 scum and 2 null. 3 people not listed, you say to throw them to the nulls. Why did Dat and Unc get a null designation while the others are null be default?

Because I totally didn't forget their names

Why me above you? Normally I’d see that as a good way for a PR to soft a result, but we don’t allow N0 actions?

I literally just listed the players I remembered and sorted them into where I saw them. There is absolutely no order to anything... so stop

No, not how this game works. You question until you’re satisfied. I’m not.

I don’t believe you remembered me before you. That’s an ego problem/contrary to how most people perceive the world . I think to remembered to add yourself after sorting me. But at that point, why not also add the others you forgot?

I’m not saying this is necessarily ai. I’m saying it’s abnormal behavior. So no, I don’t take kindly to being asked to stop when I’m repeating a question you didn’t directly answer.

I like this post. It makes another thing I was thinking seem unlikely though.

^ I'm sorry but that rubbed me the wrong way. My vote was a random vote -

I don't want to be put into a wagon.

VOTE: Marionette because you're still the person

I want to talk to the most.

Bolded- why dont you wanna be on a wagon? How are you going to get a read off him without that pressure.

Italics- This is a tactic that new scum often uses because it makes it look like you are being active and are making a pressure push, but you are basically naked voting that slot and saying that you want them to post, which is why you voted them which defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place because now the guy knows why you are voitng him and how to change.

But until then your vote is being used, but in a way that is not likely to do any damage at all.

solid observation. I mean it's calling my slot newbscum but it's the same kind of stance I would take if in FF's shoes right there

It's caused me to always want to play as either scummish or idiot town

you're going to fit in great around here

^ I'm sorry but that rubbed me the wrong way. My vote was a random vote -

I don't want to be put into a wagon.

VOTE: Marionette because you're still the person

I want to talk to the most.

Bolded- why dont you wanna be on a wagon? How are you going to get a read off him without that pressure.

Italics- This is a tactic that new scum often uses because it makes it look like you are being active and are making a pressure push, but you are basically naked voting that slot and saying that you want them to post, which is why you voted them which defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place because now the guy knows why you are voitng him and how to change.

But until then your vote is being used, but in a way that is not likely to do any damage at all.

I agree here in regards to the wagon and vote usage, even if the pressure was being applied on me it's still beneficial to town as we're seeing how people react.

I think Mari is another one of those "easy votes" that I'm not willing to make just yet. That's the second time I've noticed Garden making one of these (the first was on Fish at the start of the game). Would like more of an explanation on that if you could, Garden.

Even though Mari's behaviour has been odd to me, it was only in a couple of posts. Not enough to go off of yet. I'd prefer our votes pressure someone who we know is around and will give their thoughts.

this seems kinda awkward and careful. Especially since he hasn't changed votes since RVS

@bugspray I'm going to defend myself hard, that's how I am in social deduction games. Not everyone likes that style, but that's how I do things.

could explain a large reason for why I think his play is scum indicative. But last time I let that logic take lead the person in question was scum and killed me. Going to proceed with caution here.

Mate, here's the thing. If you're Town, you understand that lynching Town = very bad no good. And you only know for sure that you yourself are Town. Therefore, if people are trying to lynch you, you know it's a Town lynch incoming. You have to fight it.

Tell me, what happens if every single Town in game goes "lol kill me my death doesn't matter"?

I actually think this screams town because bugspray flipped VT and fmpov datisi absolutely had to notice the VTslip that bugspray made

--on a side note I think this implicates at least one newb as the scumteam, probably 2, because why kill bugspray after they VT slipped?--

Mate, here's the thing. If you're Town, you understand that lynching Town = very bad no good. And you only know for sure that you yourself are Town. Therefore, if people are trying to lynch you, you know it's a Town lynch incoming. You have to fight it.

Tell me, what happens if every single Town in game goes "lol kill me my death doesn't matter"?

If that happens every game then the townie dies and it creates a disadvantage for their team. Guess I'll have to learn to properly defend because I won't get to do this again
But I don't think I feel confident that this town could win if I'm mislyched so I'll try to defend myself for now.

Pls no lynch

But mafia getting lynched is a LOT worse and I feel like they have a tendency to heavily overreact any defend hard.

oh, maybe this is realizing they VT slipped and trying to do damage control? another thing to keep in mind

Actually...

I'm not gonna bother defending myself because I've never really been successful at it.

A day 1 mislynch is common on d1 and I don't mind being thee player who is dies like that.

But I don't think I feel confident that this town could win if I'm mislyched

so I'll try to defend myself for now.

How serious was this part of 332?

datisi notices...

It was completely serious. Reading 323 caused my to change my mind completely about this and take the game a lot more seriously

I think the best way to move to game forward is wait for the Mari prod and potentially the replacement as well.

do I take this at face value and assume that others will too?
I'm gonna flip a coin.
No, I do not take it at face value.

Cool. Let's not lynch me yet

because we are about to finally have every slot participating

[teacher]

Also what is NAI

Non alignment indicative

[Formerfish]

Also what is NAI

Mason's are town PRS who know each other identity and alignment.

NAI is not alignment indicative.

[Fuzanglong]

PRS?

[the worst]

What's a mason?

Masons are 2 or more players who are told at the start of the game that each other are town aligned. They share a private topic. So they're like the "opposite" of a scumteam..they're a townteam.